Hmm, that's strange, as we were offered a better deal than the one we had now in the negotiations between Cameron and the EU
Yeah, but then we threw that away and voted to leave. Have you been asleep since June, or what?
Bernard henri Levy?
Ah yes the great philosopher 🙄
Brexit will blow £59bn hole in public finances, admits Hammond
Let's hope the Brexiteers can afford that, you can can't you ? Eh ?
For sure it's YOU that's going to have to pay for it.
You better get working, harder for longer, for less money.. You have to keep the intelligent Remain Voters in the standard of living we have made for ourselves, you lot of Morons must pay for the stupidity only You have caused.
Unbelievable Morons.
The brexiters on this thread are in denial. Okay you wanted to leave the EU for whatever reason (who said racist) but you must now see that it is not looking good even before we start.
You can defend your position (who said racist again) but would be good if you could at least admit that it is not as rosy as you maybe thought or hoped.
If in 5 years time the UK is doing far better that it would have done within EU and all the advantages of being outside of the EU have been taken (whatever they are) then I will happily concede that I was wrong in voting remain.
All the Brextits on my Facebook feed have gone quiet.
They were also the ones that used to bang on about Labour being terrible for the economy, causing all that debt ......
Now there are 20,000 (officially just 5,000) Brits in Poland and 800,000 Poles in the UK. So either the Brits are spectacularly less healthy or more likely we don't have the feintest idea what is actually going on.
[img] 
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Does this help answer the question?
Yes the brits are more unhealthy.
+1 for Kerley it's becoming clear to poor people that this is not quite what they expected.
I am not going to pull apart Hammonds statement it's fairly obvious to any one with ears that the basic message is "its probably going to be shit and your going to have to go without" the only thing that probably gets missed is the productivity issue but that will be fixed by rising unemployment
oh and can i just thank the brexiters for f***ing over the NHS!
"All the Brextits on my Facebook feed have gone quiet."
Calling them racists can make them shut up, but it can't win them round to the Remain POV. Which is how we got here on the first place.
but that will be fixed by rising unemployment
My honest opinion, unemployment won't rise much. There are a lot of migrants who came to the UK because the money was good(ish) and there were plenty of jobs. The pound has tanked, and as soon as the job market starts looking less healthy i expect a substantial number of migrants to look elsewhere. I also expect a large number of UK citizens to look at their own options and look elsewhere. That brexit has made this harder won't stop people looking. Employment will fall, and with it tax revenues, but unemployment won't rise.
And i can think it is fair to say that the triple lock on pensions will be scrapped in the near future as that is the only benefit bill that can provide a meaningful saving.
And at home same time our man of the people, Nigel Farage was having a party to celebrate Brexit success.
What a better place to do it than the Ritz !
+1 for Kerley it's becoming clear to poor people that this is not quite what they expected.
They voted to leave (66:34), they have only themselves to blame. In contrast, educated people voted to the same degree the others way round, Go figure, as they say....
It's absurd for IDS and other Brexshiteers to complain about the ONS forecasts. Leaving aside that the Gov has to use the figures, why are they likely to be inaccurate. Preciely because Brexshit causes massive uncertainty over very sensitive inputs into the model. Hence any forecasting error is magnified hugely.
This is EXACTKY the problem that all business face now and why Brexshiteers should be apologising for their stupidity not BSing about the forecasts. IT'S THEIR FAULT? Arses.
Calling them racists can make them shut up, but it can't win them round to the Remain POV. Which is how we got here on the first place.
You've not met my sister in law 😉
As I've stated before the logical fallacies in the leave campaign were so obvious I can think of no other reason why they'd vote out.
Besides which I was happy to point out that it was economically a bad idea, that cuts to nhs & local services were the problem not GDP boosting immigrants, or that our defence, education and scientific communities all benefitted from EU membership (go and read this thread from the start)
Instead you are blaming us 'remainiacs' for Brexiters ignoring experts and believing ego obsessed cockwombles like farage, Gove , IDS and Johnson !
Obviously it could never be the fault of the muppers that voted for it
Employment depends on the type of Brexit (if it happens) fewer better paid jobs raises productivity
bikebouy - MemberBrexit will blow £59bn hole in public finances, admits Hammond
Let's hope the Brexiteers can afford that, you can can't you ? Eh ?
According to R4 this morning, that value from the OBR was the median value, worst case scenario in their report is £220bn 😯
Any Brexiteers still on this thread ?
You really should be working, sign out, get on with your job.
Keep this mantra rolling over in your mind, sing it out loud if you feel you need to understand the words, make them sink into your brains...
[b]"I must in work harder and longer. I must focus on earning a lot less for putting in more effort, I expect to loose my job/role in the very near future"[/b]
Sing it to the Barbie Girl tune, you know the one..
Also, save as much as you can, you'll need it.
And finally...
Your Mortgage is at risk should you not be able to make the repayments..
Just sayin'.
Instead you are blaming us 'remainiacs' for Brexiters ignoring experts and believing ego obsessed cockwombles like farage, Gove , IDS and Johnson !
I thought the Leave campaign was equally dire.
None the less, although I suspect campaigning effects results far less than we all think, the result was on knife edge. Less abuse from Remainers and more selling the benefits could have resulted in the required 2pc swing.
Mr Farage tells it like it is...
"For those of you who aren't particularly happy with what happened in 2016, I've got some really bad news for you - it's going to get a bloody sight worse next year."
He's bang on the button, with that little gem.
'oood a thought it? Me and Mr Farage agreeing on something... 😯
Your Mortgage is at risk should you not be able to make the repayments..
what percentage of brexit voters have mortgages? pensioners either own outright or benefits(pension), the lower income groups, rent. Both groups can(for now) fall back on the state far more than mortgage payers.
Less abuse from Remainers and more selling the benefits could have resulted in the required 2pc swing.
Difficult to sell the benefits though when the argument is:
if we remain, things will stay the same as they are - we're in the EU, trade agreements (which no-one understands), free movement (which everyone thought = uncontrolled migration) and things will trundle along quite happily.
That's great but things were already shit after years of austerity, systematic dismantling of the NHS, the constant toxic drip-drip of the right wing press stoking fear and people quite understandably didn't want more of the same; they fell for the lies and spin and meaningless platitudes like "take back control" (control of what exactly?!).
No-one even came close to understanding what "leaving" would mean in terms of trade, cross-border laws & regulations, the massive complexity of attempting to unravel 40 years of EU agreements and at a guess, most people won't have believed how any of that or things like exchange rates would affect them.
I genuinely wonder, at what point is someone in Government going to stand up and say "you know what, this is ****ing insane - the UK economy cannot possibly cope with this, the £ is through the floor, we can't possibly deliver on the random woolly fluffy "leave" and all its gold-plated promises (ie lies), the referendum was non-binding anyway so **** it, we stay."
things will trundle along quite happily.
But there's the big lie
EU & Euro area are far from being in great shape, and remaining tied to it is just as much of an uncertainty as leaving it. Your relying on the false security of the status quo like those on the Titanic who didn't get in the lifeboat because they didn't believe it would sink.
No-one even came close to understanding what "leaving" would mean in terms of trade, cross-border laws & regulations, the massive complexity of attempting to unravel 40 years of EU agreements and at a guess, most people won't have believed how any of that or things like exchange rates would affect them.
A lot thought it would just be a piece of p1ss & it would be 1966 all over again.
A lot were bit thick.
A lot wanted to stick 2 fingers up at the establishment.
A few hated the EU & took advantage of the bile that was being stirred up.
It's quite clearly a battle of ideology & fek the consequences i.e. the poor (see above video with millionaires toasting Brexit.....evil kants)
You may hate the previous 2 govs, for a multitude of reasons, but at least they both understood the financial implications of leaving i.e. we'd be royally screwed.....
Your relying on the false security of the status quo like those on the Titanic who didn't get in the lifeboat because they didn't believe it would sink.
so lets scuttle the ship and keep warm by burning the lifeboats.
what percentage of brexit voters have mortgages? pensioners either own outright or benefits(pension), the lower income groups, rent. Both groups can(for now) fall back on the state far more than mortgage payers.
That's easy to solve - State pensions - Scrap them. Why should I continue to pay for someone else's pension for the next 30+ years safe in the knowledge that I won't get one?
the referendum was non-binding anyway so **** it, we stay."
It seemed to me that from 7am on the morning after politicians from all sides were paving the way for exactly that and as time goes on that looks more likely, not less.
If the establishment *really* thought this was feasible they'd have left straight away exactly as David Owen and Nigel Lawson suggested.
Ex-minister Iain Duncan Smith claimed the OBR "hasn't got anything right."
Obviously Ian Duncan Smiths reputation with 'facts' and statistics is impeccable
so lets scuttle the ship and keep warm by burning the lifeboats.
And for many of those who voted Brexit, they will be saying:
'Sounds good to me, we all go down together, but I get the huge satisfaction of watching you all run around panicking and screaming that you don't want to die.
After all, you didn't give a **** when I was suffering did you? That'll learn you, you smug C**t's'
You want to know about suffering? Well you probably won't get to find out as Brexit is cancelled.
Killing Brexit is being brought about by the "death of a thousand cuts" the gradual objection removal by all political sides (cent UKIP) this is why Farage is spouting rhetoric once more - things is the working poor/benefits class and pensioners are now feeling the impact of their vote. It does not take much of a change in their income before the toys in the pram start getting chucked the other way. As my mate the fork lift truck driver said back in June he voted Brexit as he had nothing to loose as I pointed out in June yes you "****ing have" funny same bloke was moaning about the coSt of diesel I said I don't give a shit as I charge 45p per mile
After all, you didn't give a **** when I was suffering did you? That'll learn you, you smug C**t's'
plenty of us have been saying for a long time that Tory austerity; the largest ever cuts to local council funding, closure of libraries, chronic NHS underinvestment, closure of sure start centres etc would hit the poor the hardest
people chose to listen to demagogues and right wing press barons instead
Farage and the right wing press barons were not suffering a lot yesterday when toasting champagne at the Ritz.
They won't be affected and could not care about the people who will.
Turkey voting for Christmas.
Thing is Ninfan I and the middle ground in general have lots more ships and lifeboats *not smug just a simple fact
The more pressure you put on people (financial and security) the more those that can close ranks to protect their tribe it's human nature
EU & Euro area are far from being in great shape
And we are, are we? Now, with our Brexit plans?
They might not be perfect, but there's not much point making ourselves worse, is it? You might live in a leaky old house, but you'd probably not be better off just walking out of the door with the clothes on your back. Or living in the shed.
plenty of us have been saying for a long time that Tory austerity; the largest ever cuts to local council funding, closure of libraries, chronic NHS underinvestment, closure of sure start centres etc would hit the poor the hardest
Ah, think of all the lost social work and graduate posts - the horror!
They didn't want sure start centres and libraries
They wanted decent jobs!
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Karma bites
Because nobody moved factories to the far east before?
They wanted decent jobs!instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Huh.
So now the government is talking about all sorts of UK investment plans. BUT THEY COULD'VE DONE THIS ANYWAY. They didn't, because they didn't give a shit then.
Sure, cheap manufacturing moves elsewhere. But then invest in the workforce to help them get the better jobs! Not sure about you but I don't want a dead end job in cheap manufacturing.
And Chris makes a good point. Most of our manufacturing is outsourced outside the EU anyway.
x2 post
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
Like Leave hero Dyson's 4000 employee factory in [s]Wiltshire[/s] Malaysia ?
Or like Nissans highly productive factory they opened here to take advantage of EU single market access?
They didn't want sure start centres and librariesThey wanted decent jobs
because theres absolutely no link between the very basics of education and getting decent jobs 🙄
"Because nobody moved factories to the far east before?"
Which goes to prove you can trade with people without a trade deal.
Sure, cheap manufacturing moves elsewhere.
But it's not just 'cheap manufacturing' is it
It's everything
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meat? Nobody.
Which goes to prove you can trade with people without a trace deal.
Only when the costs are so low that the tariffs don't make it unviable.
Honestly. So much wilful ignorance on this thread. You Brexiters aren't asking questions, trying to find out. You've already made your minds up permanently, and are just trying to rationalise the decision.
I have no idea what's going to happen, in our out. But I've listened to people involved in business and trade, and decided that there are huge huge risks we just don't need. I'm not going to ignore that.
instead they watched their factories closed and moved to Romania & Poland, in the name of your grand European project
They didn't.
Where are the ship yards?
Where are the steel works?
The UK can not compete in a race to the bottom, unless the people are willing to compete on living standards. Are the people of Newcastle willing to live the life of a Foxcon employee? That is the choice.
Why is the worst performing educational group white working class boys? Maybe people need to grow up and realise you are owed nothing. You want a TV then you earn the money, no tax credits, no benefits? You aren't going to become rich through X factor or football.
Do i want to live in a society with no safety net? No not really, but it seems that for many at the bottom that is what they want. No pensions, no NHS, no jobs.
And who is going to suffer? It won't be those with the ability to leave, be it brains or money.
Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
well we arrest those that did it like these guys in aberystwyth and others in NI
Oh wait no its only nasty foreigners that would pollute our british bangers 🙄
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
So if the poor didn't have cheap exports from EU (or more so China and India) what would they be buying - more expensive UK produce.
How does that make them better off?
If you want to help poor people be better off how about;
Raising minimum wage to £15 (companies would have to reduce higher paid to cover it)
Raising tax limit to £20K (taxes would have to increase on higher earners)
Put rent caps in place (house prices would fall)
The impacts would all be on better off people therefore making a good dent in inequality.
Food manufacturing being a prime example - UK production and quality control undermined by cheap exports from the EU - what happens next? Who gets held responsible when it turns out we are being fed horse meant?
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/latest_news/peter_boddy_and_david_moss_horsemeat_convictions/
yep nasty Europeans, oh their british.....
http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Food-Safety/FSA-faces-22M-budget-cut-amid-food-fraud-fears
nasty EU cutting the governments budgets....oh its westminster....
how about cutting HMRC staff, obviously the EU to blame for that as well.
border agency cuts, obviously the EU again?
etc
etc
etc
All obviously because of the EU....
