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Well I suppose the good thing in that article is:
The EU will "for sure" reach a free trade deal with the UK after Brexit, EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said, shortly after Mrs Merkel spoke.
...[Mrs Merkel] went on to say "we are also ready to make a fair offer to British citizens in Germany and the rest of Europe.
"They are an important part of our community and should remain so."
The bad thing.. well. just read the Comments!
As expected, talk of the EU being "bullies" and plenty of mentions of the war 🙄
The results in various elections and referendums have shown that social media is a useless indicator of public sentiment.
As is whatever source from which May's speechwriters are getting her opinions.
As expected, talk of the EU being "bullies" and plenty of mentions of the war
**** is un unreliable indicator of public sentiment.
[Insert media of choice for anyone who believes May when she says we're all coming together.]
kimbers - MemberIt's remarkable that May keeps repeating that the UK is coming together, as though her wishes might actually make it a reality.
Who does she think she is kidding?
The vitrol on social media only send to have got worse!
I happened to spend a few minutes "below the line" on a Channel 4 News post on facebook about Gina Miller launching her tactical voting drive yesterday.
Completely and utterly dispiriting. Every species of ignorance, stupidity, jingoism, racism, mysogyny and swivel-eyed paranoia you can imagine, loudly and openly proclaimed. I was really hoping half of them were bots because it's not a half of the country I could ever see myself "coming together" with.
On BBC [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39730326 ]item.[/url]
1429. Posted by Tony Pearce on 17 minutes agoThe first Brexit Vote was so divisive in the Country, with Families split and even Weddings called off because the couple disagreed. The last thing we need is yet another vote on it.
With.... 5 up votes, 5 down votes.
Made I laff. 😀
The results in various elections and referendums have shown that social media is a useless indicator of public sentiment.
Except the complete opposite of that.
Maybe we need partition? Like India? It worked out OK for them (kinda).
Completely and utterly dispiriting. Every species of ignorance, stupidity, jingoism, racism, mysogyny and swivel-eyed paranoia you can imagine, loudly and openly proclaimed. I was really hoping half of them were bots because it's not a half of the country I could ever see myself "coming together" with.
THIS, VERY MUCH THIS
I find it amazing that so many people openly post so much racist and sexist bile on the internet, Im not sure if brexit has emboldened this, but you can guarantee that a post about corbyn/diane abbot/gina miller etc will descend into something quite nasty quite quickly
Except the complete opposite of that.
Company comes to conclusion that its services are valuable?
So it will be renamed the Freedom Tour de Yorkshire.
Will foreigners still be invited to participate or will it be an all Yorkshire affair?
BMC were parked outside the meeting I was in today.
Lots of shiny orange bikes and many washing machines.
Back on topic in a bit I'm sure.
Oh yes...
Blinking Swiss teams coming over here putting [s]hard working British teams[/s] Team Wiggo out of a job
find it amazing that so many people openly post so much racist and sexist bile on the internet,
They don't always realise/accept that's the case.
You missed out bigotry btw, don't forget that.
I will take the EU Trade commisioners comments witn a big grain of salt. With French and German elections the EU needs to be sending two messages, the UK will be paying a big bill (so you don't have to), we will have a tariff free trade deal with the UK so your exports don't suffer.
@milleboy Merkel has an election to fight, she can't be having the German public believe the UK might walk away paying nothing and reverting to WTO tariffs.
I will take the EU Trade commisioners comments witn a big grain of salt.
#irony
@milleboy Merkel has an election to fight, she can't be having the German public believe the UK might walk away paying nothing and reverting to WTO tariffs.
I don't think the Germans think we are quite that stupid............
[s]Merkel[/s]May has an election to fight, she can't be having the [s]German[/s]UK public believe the UK might [s]walk away paying nothing and reverting to WTO tariffs.[/s]not get to have their cake and eat it
Maybe we need partition?
Would be worth trying if it wasn't such a logistical nightmare. In theory people of similar ideals would be living together and much more content. No doubt the right wing side of the country would run of of people to abuse so would have to go to war with the pacifist left wing side ending in right wing dictatorship not much different from today...
Completely and utterly dispiriting. Every species of ignorance, stupidity, jingoism, racism, mysogyny and swivel-eyed paranoia you can imagine, loudly and openly proclaimed. I was really hoping half of them were bots because it's not a half of the country I could ever see myself "coming together" with.
I feel the same when I look at lefty posters on items about the Tories or Israel
Wait - lefty posters about Israel? Really?
#irony
Why @dd the EU is the ultimate in in purely political organisations genereally staffed and lead by politicians who have failed at home.
@ Jambalaya , all news report today say that Macron responded very well yesterday and what could have been a pr disaster , turned into a win .
Why @dd the EU is the ultimate in in purely political organisations genereally staffed and lead by politicians who have failed at home.
750 MEPs, I look forward to you evidencing your claim. Until then I'm labelling this as at best, confirmation bias, but more likely just good old fashioned prejudice.
I await your evidence of "generally"
Why @dd the EU is the ultimate in in purely political organisations genereally staffed and lead by politicians who have failed at home.
Jam, honestly, you are leting your prejudice colour your opinions.
Why
You. Advising anyone to take someone else's statements with a pinch of salt.
I said this before on this thread, but we are beginning to see the EU machine getting up to speed. It's been getting its act together (and not opaquely either) for the last few months while you lot have been tub thumping and telling your delusional supporters that you're going to shaft the EU and leave them begging our great nation for mercy.
Trouble is, the EU is looking more and more pro-Brexit as the months wear on. And you lot are showing all the predicted signs of losing control of a negotiation that, for some reason, you thought would be a piece of piss.
But it's ok, eh? They need us more than we need them, and if (I'm not quite at "when" yet) it all goes wrong, it's easy, you'll just tell everyone it's all the EU's fault. Like a toddler unhappy with the selection of toys at pre-school, you've smashed it into the ground in frustration and you'll look to everybody else to blame and then buy you a new one.
the EU is the ultimate in in purely political organisations genereally staffed and lead by politicians who have failed at home.
Like this charlatan with seven failed attempts at being elected an MP behind him.
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Think you might be on to something.
Worthy of the daily mash?
Just watched Macron, on one occasion I preempted his reply to a question "quelle attitude face à Berlin"
We aren't "face à Berlin", Germany is a partner.
He performed better than I hoped.
As Chris notes, the Whirlpool visit was a win for Macron according to TF1.
I also considered what I'd have expected if the question had been "quelle attitude face à Londres". My reply would have been:
Avec le Brexit on est face à une concurrence déloyale, Londres se lance dans une politique de dumping fiscale et dumping social. L'union Européenne a pour objectif de defendre les acquis de ses citoyens qu'ils soient menacés par un voisin ou un pays lointain.
As Chris notes, the Whirlpool visit was a win for Macron according to TF1.
Oh come on the French media is so biased left/centre it's not true. I have no doubt Macron will win but Le Pen will IMO score 40%, thays pretty stunning really.
EDIT: Edukator with US corporate tax rates going to 15% I think the UK is bound to follow.
@dd well we will have to disagree then. The EU is dragging it's heals hoping to string Brexit out to keep the UK contributions rolling in, it knows free trade is in it's favour (even without a budget contribution) so again stringing it
out is for the good. I am sure the EU has taken a big deep breath as it looks like the Frexit scneario is receeding. An EU without UK and France would be nothing at all. Nothing much will happen till October when the German elections have been concluded, this is just the "phoney war"
yeah then the negotiations can start properly.....
hows that gonna look again?
did you consider that we are not all fluent in French ?I also considered
Jamby - memberMerkel has an election to fight, she can't be having the German public believe the UK might walk away paying nothing and reverting to WTO tariffs.
What is the position on Brexit of the various German parties (SPD, CDU, etc) ?
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/11/german-centre-left-would-make-eu-unity-a-priority-in-brexit-talks ]SPD[/url] seem to be saying we can't just have our cake and eat it.
If all of the parties are offering more-or-less the same thing, then we could easily find ourselves relying on WTO rules, since voters won't be able to express a desire for anything different (even if they wanted to).
Type "babelfish" into google search and copy-paste the text:
Avec le Brexit on est face à une concurrence déloyale, Londres se lance dans une politique de dumping fiscal et dumping social. L'union Européenne a pour objectif de defendre les acquis de ses citoyens qu'ils soient menacés par un voisin ou un pays lointain.
becomes
With Brexit we're faced with unfair competition, London embarked on a fiscal policy of dumping and social dumping. L\\\' European union is intended to defend the gains of its citizen
which is pretty good. Only "gains" fails to convey the meaning of "hard fought for social progress"
is it not just easier if you use English on this English language site?Type "babelfish" into google search and copy-paste the text:
I shall use as you suggest if you continue
European thread talking about French affairs using vocabulary that's international. Strategic competence gets you 90% of the meaning. I don't do it often.
Reasonable points but we are not all as linguistically blessed as you [ or computer skilled either]...I struggle enough with English as it is 😉
I shall translate if you continue or feel its relevant and dont think you are doing it to annoy but the point of communication is to make oneself understood ; it loses a lot of marks on that front
now jamba. any comment on the 25% uplift in cost for my customer under wto vs another within the eu? or is this just another inconvenient fact you'd rather ignore?
hi again.
I am not that convinced that Macron victory is guaranteed.
I also dont think à FN victory would be such a disaster.
Without députés, she could not form a government, and we will have a coalition.
Macron has the same problem. Some names from other parties have defected to him but there are still personalities in all the other parties that generate a consensus in their home areas. Enough to stop him getting an overall majority.
A lot will depend on who leads the Republican campaign and how many of Fillon's fascho policies they maintain. Drop sacking 500 000 fonctionnaires, the "manif pour tous" content, tax the poor(edit and middle classes) with TVA and they will be in a strong position.
I am not that convinced that Macron victory is guaranteed.
Absolutely not, I think the FN vote may be under self-reported.
On the upside, a Tory GE victory is not guaranteed either - but the runway is getting used up very fast.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39743129 ]BOOM[/url]!
Growth! You remoaners take that! - Growth ONLY 0.1% less than forecast!
0.1% - That's nearly nothing,isn't it? I mean who's counting 0.1%?
Yay! It's Friday and FINAL PROOF [s]Princess Di was assassinated[/s] that the [s]brexshit [/s](whoops!) brexit bonanza is ALREADY pumping dozens of cash into the Freedom Bank.
Ouch Scotland will be jealous
Nicola is practicing an Irish accent as we speak... 😉
Brexit hasn't happened yet, Baron, just a competitive devaluation which will only have a positive impact for as long as it takes inflation to catch up with import prices.
There hasn't been a competitive devaluation just the currency has gone done -it is not the result of government intervention.
Baron, just a competitive devaluation which will only have a positive impact for as long as it takes inflation to catch up with import prices.
What does 'competitive devaluation' mean - in general terms and in terms the world de-valuing the pound because of Brexit?
And how will the effects manifest WRT
?inflation to catch up with import prices
Do you mean once everything has got more expensive then it, er, wont get more expensive?
kimbers - MemberOuch Scotland will be jealous
Nah, it's a pretty different situation- Eire's a state in the EU, it's pretty natural to consider a unified Ireland to be a continuation of that. And it's good news for the SNP since it shows a clear desire for the EU to incorporate ex-UK states pragmatically.
Obviously they'd rather have the same sort of invite but it's not too realistic.
Italy spent its time devaluing before the Euro. A devaluation allowed manufacturers to clear finished goods and increase liquidity as it made their goods cheaper abroad. However, as the wholesalers they bought semi-finished goods and raw materials from were forced to pass on price rises due to the increased cost of imports, the competitive advantage was slowly lost and a new equilibrium found - time for another devaluation.
Edit: it's up to the bank of England to work for or against a devaluation since the bank was given its independence. The bank can buy and sell debt to move the pound and simply buy or sell pounds. However, with a trade deficit and high total debt any attempt at propping up the pound will ultimately fail. The markets are stronger than the BOE.
One of the good things about being in the Euro zone. It would take several George Soroses to successfully attack the Euro and the risk of being beaten by the ECB would be high. Selling a currency low in an attempt to force it lower is a very high risk strategy if the economic fundamentals of the zone as a whole are sound.
@Edukator - Ta. From what you say, it does seem Italy made a choice but the UK didn't (well, it [i]did[/i], but not in a careful & steady fashion.)
You can't have a competitive devaluation without government intervention. Italy devalued in an exchange rate mechanism the ERM, the last time they did this was actually 7 years before the Euro. As our currency floats, the only way you can devalue is through Central Bank intervention (China does this), which the UK hasn't done.
Second, we may not have left the EU yet, but you would expect to see the economy being impacted by Brexit as businesses stall making investment decisions etc. due to concerns.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39755124
No great surprise in the unity and speed of agreement.
Six weeks to wait until the new gov - still Tory with some new faces - and it's brexit team show us how capable they are.
A harsh lesson in economic reality coming our way; did anyone really think UK could develop a position of strength to negotiate from? Deluded - it was always going to be 27 v 1 and the balance of power was also clear since referendum result.
In a letter to the leaders of the EU-27 ahead of the summit, Mr Tusk wrote that progress on "people, money and Ireland" must come before negotiations on the EU's future relationship with the UK.
As she arrived in Brussels, German Chancellor Angela Merkel reiterated that only once substantial progress had been made on the separation talks with the UK, could negotiations turn to the UK's future relationship with the EU.
The separation talks will seek to agree the rights of EU citizens living in the UK, as well as Britons living in the EU, plus a settlement for the UK's financial obligations as an EU member state. A deal must also be agreed to avoid a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, Mr Tusk wrote.
French President Francois Hollande said there would inevitably be "a price and a cost for the UK - it's the choice that was made".
"We must not be punitive, but at the same time it's clear that Europe knows how to defend its interests, and that Britain the UK will have a less good position tomorrow outside the EU than today in the EU."
But....But....But...we were told we'd be better off if we left the EU.....does that mean that we have been lied to? 😉
Turns out you can put a price on both freedom and stupidity 🙂
Edukaotr it's pretty much impossible fir the BoE to have held the £ steady given the shock of the Referendum result. Market forces if that magnitude just can't be "adjusted" in cases like this. Look at the Swiss central bank in the end they had to givenup trying to hold the chf down. Look at Greece despite all the EU/ECB proclamations of suport the market just stopped buying and forced the eurozone to step in leaving them "holding the hot potato"
On Macron I think he has won, its just by how much. The UMP voters I know are focused on a strong showing in the Parliamentary elections to foil Macron. As above I think a Le Oen Presidency would find rhe establishmebt doing all it could to block her in Frace and at the EU. BTW the BBC had a good piece on the negotitions and likely stances of major coubtries and they agreed it was hard to call what Macron may/may not do.
More posturing from EU as they vote through their negotiating stance document.
@somafunk - our [b]obligations[/b] are zero (**) - we are not even obliged to pay the pensions of UK MEP's. The EU has only a [b]moral[/b] argument and is attempting to bluff its way past the German elections. May will have a massive majority and a term till 2022 so will have a much stronger hand to go with WTO if the EU plays silly buggars.
Ireland and EU/UK citizens rights are both things the UK wanted to agree before A50 but where blocked by the EU.
EDIT: there is a strong argument we are owed money from assets like our shareholding in the EIB (my gut feel is we will stay invested in it on the basis it remains in London).
Also we have the ludicrous position from the EU that the UK should be liable for lease payments on office space of EU agencies if they decide to leave the UK. Just ridiculous 🙂
Ireland and EU/UK citizens rights are both things the UK wanted to agree before A50 but where blocked by the EU.
#jambafact
Angrier posts, tweets, blogs from Brexiteers, as they feel the loss of control of negotiations.
May will have a massive majority and a term till 2022 so will have a much stronger hand to go with WTO if the EU plays silly buggars.
How does delivering A50 then instead of starting the negotiations straight away knowing that the timeline is tight calling a general election fall on the playing silly buggers scale?
IMO a pretty decent commentary on the EU document
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/29/eu-brexit-guidelines-document-really-means/
@cornholio - we can start atraightaway on the 9th June. The EU weren't even ready till today's agreement. So the GE has cost at most 5 weeks, nothing really. As I said before IMO nothing substantive is going to be achieved until the German elections are done in October.
From the document:
Negotiations under Article 50 TEU will be conducted in transparency and as a single package. In accordance with the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, individual items cannot be settled separately.
To that effect, the first phase of negotiations will aim to:– provide as much clarity and legal certainty as possible to citizens, businesses, stakeholders and international partners on the immediate effects of the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the Union;
– settle the disentanglement of the United Kingdom from the Union and from all the rights and obligations the United Kingdom derives from commitments undertaken as Member State.
The European Council will monitor progress closely and determine when sufficient progress has been achieved to allow negotiations to proceed to the next phase.
Doesn't that seem to be mutually exclusive?
Ireland and EU/UK citizens rights are both things the UK wanted to agree before A50 but where blocked by the EU.
No the UK government didn't and anyway the EU is legally obliged not to start negotiations before A50 is triggered.
anyway the EU is legally obliged not to start negotiations before A50 is triggered.
See, #ItsAllTheEUsFault
The European Council will monitor progress closely and determine when sufficient progress has been achieved to allow negotiations to proceed to the next phase.
So who is in control?
May will have a massive majority and a term till 2022 so will have a much stronger hand to go with WTO if the EU plays silly buggars.
?
How does the number of people who voted for TM have ANY influence on what the WTO will/might think or for that matter the EU?
I keep seeing this being trotted out but I can't for the life of me work out WHAT IT ACTUALLY MEANS...
May will have a massive majority and a term till 2022 so will have a much stronger hand to go with WTO if the EU plays silly buggars.
And Argentina says Malvinas or no deal then what?
@cornholio - we can start atraightaway on the 9th June. The EU weren't even ready till today's agreement. So the GE has cost at most 5 weeks, nothing really. As I said before IMO nothing substantive is going to be achieved until the German elections are done in October.
Article 50 was delivered on the 29th March and the politicians are prepared to wait until June to start talking? There were 9 months to get the plan together so why not have the team ready and already sitting in Brussels pushing to start? After all isn't there a desire to get it done in 18 months so it can be ratified within 24. You seem prepared to wait until October. It is as though no one on either side cares enough to actually want to start.
May will have a massive majority and a term till 2022 so will have a much stronger hand to go with WTO if the EU plays silly buggars.
Makes no difference to them.
This idea is just electoral smoke and mirrors.
Im seeing lots of EU demand this or ....or what
really am starting to lean towards **** Europe lets see what happens to be honest, rather than playing along nicely
Makes no difference to them.
Absolutely none whatsoever. But, y'know, as long as people keep believing it, then, when it all comes crashing down under WTO, you know whose fault it will be don't you?
I'm honestly not seeing any 'demands' that could not have reasonably be foreseen. One of the reasons I voted remain.
Why on earth do leavers think we would get a better deal outside the EU?
Why on earth do leavers think we would get a better deal outside the EU?
Why on earth are leavers going about thinking the EU is going to do us any kind of favours? It's business FFS not bloody splitting the bill with your mates..
They don't "owe the UK" any kind of preferential treatment..
Can a Leaver tell me why they think the EU might?
Didn't the UK agree to all these rule for exiting when we joined? Any subsequent rule change since about leaving I presume we'd also agreed to?
Don't really see anything happening that we won't have expected (and agreed to). I'd guess most Brexiters have never been divorced?
Can a Leaver tell me why they think the EU might?
Because they need us more than we need them and / or we won't buy their cheese/ cars/ wine [other product of you're choice] and / or don't they know who we are.
this is going to get very bitter and twisted business or not.
Only if you believe the utter bobbins being pedalled by the press Jamba and his cohorts. It will get portrayed by the swivel eyed loons ad Europe being mean to us. We are trying to play poker and we haven't been dealt any cards.we voted not to have any cards not because Europe won't give any.
mickmcd - Member
this is going to get very bitter and twisted business or not.
What do you mean going to get?
The whole Brexit campaign was bitter and twisted and the Brexies remain bitter and twisted.
Wholly predictable.
Im seeing lots of EU demand this or ....or what
we want free trade with them so who do you think gets to call the shots?
they are not demands they are the rules of the club. You dont get to leave and then decide on new rules that allow you to stay.
the really massive economy that is responsible for 435 of your trade is seriously adversely affected whilst they have 4% of theirs affectedreally am starting to lean towards **** Europe lets see what happens to be honest, rather than playing along nicely
bad for both but much much worse for us...whether this is catastrophic or just terrible remains to be seen.
Thing is Nipper, we will be buying their cheese..at whatever price we have to pay for it. We only produce 1/3 of the food that we eat (in terms of where the ingredients are produced). Do you really believe we can source all our fresh food from across the ocean as easily as we at present do. I think we need Europe more than they need us. Needing the means to urgently feed 60 million folk doesn't really put to in a very strong position to negotiate competitive prices for stuff IMO.
Needing the means to urgently feed 60 million folk doesn't really put to in a very strong position to negotiate competitive prices for stuff
+1
Does seem a tad mad to have to ship your food from the other side of the world as well rather than Calais-Dover.
I think there's gonna be a gradually slow burn on prices of stuff going up as this farce plays out.
And for those suggesting it's 27 against 1 - you're wrong.
At the last official count it was 27.481 against 0.519.