THEY NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED THEMI expect politicians will do everything in their power to make sure the citizens of Europe see the Brexit as a failure; an example of what not to do.
Of course they will they were always going to do this
Brexiters will still be able to blame the EU
The 3% figure is a classic jambafact
Post truth politics is depressing like that.
Unless he's looked at our exports to the EU and calculated the % on each type and then done the maths, allowing for the tartifs on imported materials to build/ produce/ them
Here are our to 10 exports ( excluding services)
What sort of tartifs would they gave under WTO?
The following export product groups represent the highest dollar value in UK global shipments during 2015. Also shown is the percentage share each export category represents in terms of overall exports from United Kingdom.
Machines, engines, pumps: US$63.9 billion (13.9% of total exports)
Gems, precious metals: $53 billion (11.5%)
Vehicles: $50.7 billion (11%)
Pharmaceuticals: $36 billion (7.8%)
Oil: $33.2 billion (7.2%)
Electronic equipment: $29 billion (6.3%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $18.9 billion (4.1%)
Medical, technical equipment: $18.4 billion (4%)
Organic chemicals: $14 billion (3%)
Plastics: $11.8 billion (2.6%)
http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/
Bobs obese got diabetes and is 45 smokes 20 a day- the fact he is obese and has diabetes is someone's else's fault apparently
Nobody answers my questions
Bobs obese got diabetes and is 45 smokes 20 a day- the fact he is obese and has diabetes is someone's else's fault apparently
Oh he is a benefit claimant!!! To the tower with him! scum, bet he's got a 55inch TV has holidays to Spain every week, has a free car, lives in a mansion, and even plays football at the weekend, probably a Muslim as well isn't he!!!! and all paid for by the Tax Payer......
even a stopped clock is right twice a dayThe 3% figure is a classic jambafact
[b]There is no "right", only forceful opinion.[/b]
[ I'm trying to get myself into the spirt of 2016 fully. ]
Sadly mrmo Bob is real (not called Bob I change his name to protect the ignorant) he does drive a fork lift and earns about £18k with overtime he was always banging on at me down the pub about how he has worked as hard as me (known each other since we were kids) all his life and has * all - he thinks turning up 5 days a week is working hard but he ho that's life. The frightening thing about him is that we came from virtually identical backgrounds - only difference was i continued to educate myself after my apprenticeship (he was a time served plater) and the economy simply over took him - the thing that makes my jaw drop is his absolute belief that the *s he voted for in Brexit will look after him yet every part of his working life should tell him otherwise? Nothing I can say to him has the slightest impact on this belief - maybe he's really Chewkw? He stopped one of his kids going to Uni this year a straight A student. It actually really upsets me to watch it.
i shouldn't joke, but i know plenty like him.
There is only one constant in life, change, for some this is a very hard fact to grasp. I am not saying it is easy, it isn't, to have certainties pulled from under you. To see the world you know change.
But you can't fight it, you can adapt or lash out.
One very telling fact, the worst performing demographic in our schools is white working class boys. The era when they would have been used as canon fodder, in ship yards, coal mines etc has gone. Now, they are pointless! and it isn't a good place to be.
The elephant in the euro closet is not Brexit its Lepen
I live eat and sleep with poor French and they are to a man voting Lepen IF she gets in Europe is over, and after Trump that is looking a lot more possible.
PS I voted remain but I am telling it like I see it every one has underestimated how pissed off the poor are.
I expect politicians will do everything in their power to make sure the citizens of Europe see the Brexit as a failure; an example of what not to do.
Again, you keep saying these things as if they are wrong or bad. I find this awfully confusing.
The origin of the EU was to have trading partners where the connection of trade was seen as stronger than the divisions of war. And it has been incredibly successful. Thbe right wing and Brexit seems to want to drive a wedge in that peace. There is no denying that the nation is divided and it seems that Jamba, ninfan and chewkw are happy with these divisions. If Le Pen takes power and there is a increase in support of the right and the far right, I can see this only going one way.
It's not just about the money you muppets!
I agree with Wicki, it's what I keep saying… and so does Jamba… although I see it as a threat, and he somehow sees it as a positive thing… the vote to Leave, and now the Trump win, makes a National Front win in France, and all that can fall from that, a very real prospect.
If I was in a country on the Eastern fringes of Europe, I'd be looking to move my family away from what Russia is planning right now… where I'd feel safe to flee to though, I have no idea.
Serious question over the last 2000 years for how many has Europe not been at war with itself? Maybe historians will look back at the last 50 years as an aberration?
IF she gets in Europe is over, and after Trump that is looking a lot more possible.
If France leave, then it's not over, it'll be rebooted. Basically, like the Roman Empire.
What you mean religious leaders speaking out against hatred & intolerance and cheekily offering an alternative message of compassion, empathy, and understanding?Bastards!
She even did the old Edmund Burke "good men to do nothing" quote
The basic message of a sermon on Remembrance Day should be about remembering those who lost their lives in conflicts, there are plenty of other Sundays they can preach about their often naive world view, however of course they don't get as many people in on those days.
Serious question over the last 2000 years for how many has Europe not been at war with itself? Maybe historians will look back at the last 50 years as an aberration?
Oh great, let's give up getting on with each other and resume the slaughter.
Perhaps we should go along next week and put 4e on Juppé.
The basic message of a sermon on Remembrance Day should be about remembering those who lost their lives in conflicts, there are plenty of other Sundays they can preach about their often naive world view, however of course they don't get as many people in on those days.
Crap, remembrance is pointless unless you are willing to ask why. Why did those people die in those wars? Did they have a personal issue with the Kaiser etc? Or were they doing their duty as told to them by their "betters"
Europe has been led by idiots with personal agendas for far to long, the idea of the nation is something i had hoped had died. But no, like a recurrent cancer it keeps on coming back and the masses keep on failing to see where things lead. Maybe this time it will be different, maybe it won't.
WTO tarrif on cars would be 10%
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-leaving-eu-trade/
So do we have to subsidise Nissan 10% for the 75% of their cars made here that are exported to the eu ?
even if lepen is elected President , her first job will be to name a Prime minister .
he will look at the assemble nationale , where mp sits , and will dissolve it as he wont have a majority of mp .
so France will have election legislative to elect new mp .
if the front national gets enough mp to have a majority , then Lepen ad her PM are in charge and will have full control .
if they don't get a majority , she will sack her PM and will have to name A PM whose party has a majority in the Assemblee .
it will be what we call a cohabitation . ( coalition ) .
Interesting.
The basic message of a sermon on Remembrance Day should be about remembering those who lost their lives in conflicts, there are plenty of other Sundays they can preach about their often naive world view, however of course they don't get as many people in on those days.
Surely the basic message is also about the horror of war, remembering bloody sacrifice and honouring that sacrifice by trying not to let it happen all over again?
Hatred, division and intolerance are the seeds of conflict.
Would't know what they preach about on other Sundays as I'm not a religious type - but I thought she spoke very well about it.
The EU is not completely unrelated to either World War, is it?
Would't know what they preach about on other Sundays as I'm not a religious type - but I thought she spoke very well about it.
+1 anyone who has spent any time looking at modern history can see where division and hate have got us before.
If all you do on remembrance sunday is remember the dead you have missed the point.
I've posted this before on another thread, but here's why it's appropriate to talk about Brexit and Trump on Remeberance Day
The EU is not completely unrelated to either World War, is it?
+ the Franco-Prussian War in 1870.
It's notable how little we're taught about the history of the EU in the UK - the background to its formation and the aims of the founding fathers. As it happens I wrote my final year Uni dissertation on it - France and Germany went to war 3 times in 80 years - millions of men killed, families torn apart (my own great grandfather was German and got hauled back to Germany in WW1 to fight against his own adopted country... screwed my Grandma up for life seeing her father abandon her like that...) economies wrecked and countries just torn apart... but the UK didn't have the same experience as mainland Europe as we were never occupied.
Nothing like the horrors of the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre ]Oradour sur Glane massacre[/url] happened on UK soil - nothing like the WW2 cemeteries with fields and fields of white crosses exist on British soil - so we don't have that visceral understanding of the horrors of those 3 wars and why the founding fathers were so determined to bring Europe so closely together (particularly to contain German nationalism) to stop it ever happening again.
Instead, we whine like children about 'straight bananas' and utterly miss the point that EU is about preventing war more than anything else.
I think it's an utter tragedy that we've not been taught this at school - the endgame being what we're currently seeing - a woefully poorly educated electorate voting against something without having any real idea of its true purpose, which is peace and prevention of war. This lack of education about the EU has made it very easy for various parties to manipulate us...
The only criticism I'd make of the EU at the moment is it's not proven able to stop the rise of the far right across Europe - which really and truely is it's reason for existing...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/14/irish-minister-says-brexit-like-uk-trying-to-divorce-and-keep-all-the-assets
some very telling comments from the brexiters if true. Do as we tell or or .....
And I just thought it'd be worth throwing this into the discussion...
[url= http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/personal-values-brexit-vote/ ]The characteristics of Leave voters[/url]
Disciplining children and whipping sex criminals, keeping the nation safe, protecting social order and skepticism (‘few products live up to the claims of their advertisers…products don’t last as long as they used to’) correlate with Brexit sentiment.
Instead, we whine like children about 'straight bananas' and utterly miss the point that EU is about preventing war more than anything else.
Shelia Hancock was one of the few people who made this point, and strongly, during the referendum build up.
Worth hunting out a video of her contribution to one of the otherwise awful TV debates.
One of the few moments of clarity that I saw/read/heard from either "side".
Well I have been to enough Remembrance Services where members of the congregation, often relatives of or forces personnel themselves, have been deeply upset by an overtly political sermon by some naive priest and in my view that is a fundamental failure of the priest's mission on Remembrance Day. This is especially the case for the Church of England as it is the established church.
I do go to church quite frequently and I will also argue a political point with a priest if I think he is wrong. Fortunately the Church I attend is too sensible for that in the main.
a woefully poorly educated electorate
Bingo.
GCSE Economics should be compulsory, when you have universal suffrage. Along with History (which we dropped for Geography ffs) and preferably philosophy too. Just the basics. Maybe PPE would do.
Fascinating article brooess.
Fox is making up more stories to scare other countries into signing trade agreement ?
GCSE Economics should be compulsory
Don't make people study the dismal science.
Well I have been to enough Remembrance Services where members of the congregation, often relatives of or forces personnel themselves, have been deeply upset by an overtly political sermon by some naive priest and in my view that is a fundamental failure of the priest's mission on Remembrance Day. This is especially the case for the Church of England as it is the established church.
If the dozen or so active soldiers from the horse artillery were deeply upset by it then they didn't show it. Though I don't suppose they would.
It wasn't [i]"an overtly political sermon by some naive priest"[/i] - it was a perfectly reasonable sentiment for less hate and greater understanding and compassion, expressed appropriately, during a service.
And I believe it was Methodist brand God bothering if that matters.
I do go to church quite frequently and I will also argue a political point with a priest if I think he is wrong.
You'd argue that we need less understanding and compassion, [i]more[/i] hatred and intolerance?
I don't think that would be entirely inkeeping with the teachings of that suspiciously white beardy Arab guy that they seem so fond of, but fair enough.
mefty - MemberDon't make people study the dismal science.
Studying [i]science[/i] is good. Studying economics might be good too.
You'd argue that we need less understanding and compassion, more hatred and intolerance?
Did I say that, no, so don't be silly. And condescension generally works better if you are making an intelligent argument.
I think conflating concerns about immigration with intolerance is a pretty political statement. It is notable that the Pope has recognized this recently. You can read about it [url= https://cruxnow.com/commentary/2016/11/04/sweden-pope-francis-becomes-immigration-realist/ ]here [/url].
Studying science is good
I agree but if economics is made compulsory something has to give and it may well be more classic science subjects, which would be a retrograde step.
I was poking fun at economics there. It was very funny- you laugh now!
I was poking fun at economics there.
A pursuit to be encouraged.
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and in truly shocking news...
The report criticises Mrs May, who it says is "acquiring a reputation of drawing in decisions and details to settle matters herself" - an approach it describes as being "unlikely to be sustainable."
The Times says the document also identifies cabinet splits between Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Brexit Secretary David Davis and International Trade Secretary Liam Fox on one side, and Chancellor Philip Hammond and Business Secretary Greg Clark on the other.
According to the newspaper, the memo said: "Every department has developed a 'bottom-up' plan of what the impact of Brexit could be - and its plan to cope with the 'worst case'.
"Although necessary, this falls considerably short of having a 'government plan for Brexit' because it has no prioritisation and no link to the overall negotiation strategy."
Theresa MayImage copyrightGETTY IMAGES
The memo also suggests the government does not have enough officials to implement Brexit quickly, while departments are developing individual plans resulting in "well over 500 projects".
It estimates an additional 30,000 extra civil servants could be required to meet the workload.
However, our correspondent says money to pay for the extra staff will not be provided in next week's Autumn Statement.
The document also says big businesses could soon "point a gun at the government's head" to secure what they need to maintain jobs and investment.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37983948
I think conflating concerns about immigration with intolerance is a pretty political statement. It is notable that the Pope has recognized this recently.
The Catholic Church being a benchmark for tolerance across the world; I agree.
30000 extra buraucrats? That should please Chewk.
Government response is quite good too, keep head in the sand and make UK great again.
Easy to see why Nissan are happy to keep their factory here, they have been told : We don't know what we doing with Brexit so nothing will happen soon.
'There is no plan' has been the elephant in the room since day 1.
Mefty - people frequently make comments about how our grandfathers generation fought a war against Nazism. Fighting against an ideology that demonised one group of people. I think an ideology that demonises immigrants is fair game on Remembrance Sunday. Concerns about immigration are fine, demonising inmigrants (and let me clear I have not accused you of this) is not - certain elements of the Brexit campaign are exactly the thing some of our grandfathers generation gave their lives fighting against. To ignore that is for their sacrifice to have been in vain.
