[url= http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2016/10/26/20002-20161026ARTFIG00002-la-coquille-saint-jacques-francaise-victime-du-brexit.php ]http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2016/10/26/20002-20161026ARTFIG00002-la-coquille-saint-jacques-francaise-victime-du-brexit.php[/url]
Came across this, one, UK fishermen, we don't want Spanish fishermen in UK waters but it is ok to abuse French fisheries.....
This being the industry that has been whinging about CAP, red tape foreigners etc....
That the products they catch are then exported to France anyway....
How to shoot yourself in both feet!
Was hoping to upgrade my PC in the new year, just had a look at processor prices, **** ouch! (and I don't think it's all filtered through yet)
My 2009 macbook is starting to play up, thinking about a new one and there is an announcement tomorrow, be interested/dreading the prices apple list.
15% price increase????
Not saying you are but the abuse is there so why would you expect anything else ?
Don't be so thin skinned, you are quite pitiful at times, you post stuff which is a lie (the Clinton stroke, for me) you are asked to provide proof, which you cant because you have posted something that isn't true. Instead of doing the mature grown up thing of saying "got that one wrong, sorry" you ignore people then start bleating when you get called on it.
Sort your life out Jamba
Don't forget every pound extra you spend the government gets 20p.
Let's call it the Patriot Tax.
We've had some proper scary price rises from our suppliers.
Enjoy this Christmas because next year will be properly shit.
One point I'm genuinely interested to understand is that if, as is always being pointed out, the UK is the 5th largest economy in the world is that ranking dependant of being in the EU or not i.e. are we ranked 5th because we are in the EU. If it is then where would we rank outside or does it not work like that.
Nipper we are now ranked 6th after Franxe, thanks to the devaluation of the pound 😕
Mays speech was surprising, she was telling a bunch of bankers what they wanted to hear! (Those same bankers not going to be too impressed with everything shes said post Brexit tho)
Nor was the content of her speech revelatory, everyone knows Brexit will be bad for the economy and less cooperation with Europe bad for security.
Since the referendum she's done what she can do, appointed the 3 clowns to the top job and gone out of her way to piss off the EU, if we are stuck with a hard Brexit and the population realise in time what high inflation and loss of access to single market means for jobs and investment, then she can call it off.
If by some miracle she can manage a token bit of immigration control and keep free market access, she's a hero for the Sun readers !
No: although you could argue that membership has boosted the size of our economy. But in answer to your question, no.
Heroine perhaps? Or have the feminine versions of nouns died out in the age of PC. I notice that actresses are now merely actors. How gauche.... 😉
Mays speech was surprising, she was telling a bunch of bankers what they wanted to hear!
Indeed - just as she told her constituents what they wanted to hear about Heathrow.
I have made my points that real economic data is pretty strong, manufacturing up, services strong moaning headlines mean £££ clickbait ad revenue.
Ok your point about clickbait is clear and valid.
But how can you say it's all okay because economic data is strong NOW when the shit is nowhere near the fan yet.
You have to admit that a lot could still go wrong over the next ten years - don't you?
Heroine perhaps?
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I think it does nicely blow up the myth of May being a 'reluctant remainer'
Just like the rest of the cabinet the interests of the country were secondary to her own ambitions for power.
are we ranked 5th because we are in the EU. If it is then where would we rank outside or does it not work like that.
It doesn't work like that. There are a few possible measures, but it is usually based on Gross Domestic Produce (GDP):
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Though GDP alone doesn't take into account the cost of living in those countries. So you can also look at GDP adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity (PPP):
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More figures here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
We are not 5th directly because we are in the EU. Some will tell you it has helped grow our economy though, others will say we would have grown faster without it.
It's pretty hard to know the truth of that. We joined in 1973. In 1970 we were only 6th largest, now we are 5th, but we've also been as high as 4th (early 2000s and also 1960), and as low as 7th (1990).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP
Thing is with those rankings aren't they pre-Brexit vote. So looking at GBP>USD conversions we look to be ~ 22% down on this time last year (Oct 26 2015 vs Oct 26 2016)
So hasn't our GDP in USD dropped from $2,649,890 to $2,066,914 which places us 7th above Italy but below India or am I reading this wrong?
If I'm not then it makes the prediction that $=£ (% drop in value against the dollar) quite interesting as that would place us at 13th below Spain but above Mexico; which is the lowest I think we have ever been; and using the GDP adjusted by cost of living that puts us below South Korea.
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I think it does nicely blow up the myth of May being a 'reluctant remainer'
Not so sure, maybe i am overly cynical, she will say whatever the audience wants to hear to gain favour and promotion.
What she really thinks????
As for pursing hard brexit, if she can get less than 30% of the population to vote for her she wins the general election, screw what is best for the rest, or even in the longer term interests of the 30%.
After all who pays taxes, who provides OAP care, who picks food, etc etc etc
using the GDP adjusted by cost of living that puts us below Iran.
GDP by PPP doesn't use international exchange rates.
It is listed in "[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geary%E2%80%93Khamis_dollar ]International Dollars (INT$)[/url]" which is a hypothetical currency unit used when comparing purchasing power.
I think you're right on the GDP (Nominal) list though - as that is rated in US dollars.
OK, makes sense and explains why we haven't heard the Brexiters banging on about we are the 5th biggest economy in the world so people will have to jolly well do as we say, or we won't ship them teacakes for a while.
I guess we won't actually feel any of this for another few months as most companies have hedged their currency transactions.
I'm wondering if I can ask my company to pay me in USD though, as I will be able to by a county at this this rate 🙂
Why the May bashing? She was a remainder, but not a particularly vocal one. Like any sensible person she recognised the flaws in the EU (both those that affect us and those that don't) but she also recognises that the current arrangement suited our interests best.
Re her aspirations - she wasn't a total narcissist like Bojo or Gove. In fact she always seems reluctant and almost surprised to win. Even now she appears uncertain of herself in front of camera and large audiences and when questioned. She "may" grow into it or may not.
BUT at least since the stupidity of the vote, she has at least got on with things. Starting at the most sensible position - hard - and then hopefully working to more sensible compromises. We shall see.
Why the May bashing?
Because of her huge lurch to the right?
@molgrips yes indeed things could go badly wrong, I would add whether we are in the EU or not. I think all this negativity won't help either in the short term either.
5th/6th doesn't really matter and always moves around with FX rates. I am certainly glad we don't have France's 10% unemployment
I see Vauxhaul / GM have projected they will make $400m less in 2017 (seems a bit high to me) as they expect UK buyers to buy fewer European produced cars due to strong €
Why the May bashing?
Because she is a Conservative Prime Minister. Which is second only to being a Blairite
huge lurch to the right - are you serious?
@molgrips yes indeed things could go badly wrong, I would add whether we are in the EU or not. I think all this negativity won't help either in the short term either
Hmm yes but it's not negativity from the sake of it. People are genuinely concerned, so why can't we be negative? It's justified negativity. No-one wants to be negative, especially in business where it harms your company's profile.
huge lurch to the right - are you serious?
Well - concentrating power in the hands of a few without public consultation or parliametary involvement, pursuing isolationist ideology - I always considered that a kind of right-wing thing but I guess it's technically not, especially to an economist.
I see Vauxhaul / GM have projected they will make $400m less in 2017
Bad news for Elsemere Port & Luton 🙁
teamhurtmore - Member
huge lurch to the right - are you serious?
the tory conference was hardly the communist national congress?
we had...
selective schools
name & shame employers of foreign workers
boot out all foreigners
more cuts to the NHS (sorry 22bn of efficiency savings)
boot out foreign students
and a lot of little englander guff about citizens of nowhere and standard right wing nationalism
Technically not and practically not. I think you are allowing the Brexshit stuff to cloud your judgement. May has parked the bus in the middle ground, spent most of her recent speeches advocating a more active role of government etc.
There has been no lurch, just a subtle repositioning to the centre.v
Edit: I wil give you grammar schools but she quickly backtracked/denied the naming and shaming of foreign workers. As a counter, how many Toties do you hear concluding their assessment of QE in terms of increased inequality???
Another flawed narrative.
Left/right/centre meaninglessness.
She has positioned herself as an anti-immigration populist nativist in favour of more powers and control for the state.
This is very popular right now, and so, I can see why you might call it "the centre", but really, no one who's considered putting it in any historical or political context would really say it so.
How about we call her "less liberal" than her predecessor, rather than try and work out where on a simple left/right spectrum she is? You can then see why the "liberal elite" might be suspicious of her "lurch" and why others might consider her to have "common sense" policies. I'm far from being part of any elite, but can see a lurch of an illiberal kind being signposted by May and other key Tories in recent months... you probably can as well.
Technically not and practically not
Well as we know the terms 'left' and 'right' mean lots of different things, but yes as you correctly point out she has moved to the centre in terms of government intervention.
In any case, whatever she's lurched towards with the anti-parlimentary stance and anti-immigration, she's definitely done it.
huge lurch to the right - are you serious?
As Kimbers has pointed out, every single policy she's proposed, not to mention the general mood music, could have come straight from the lips of Farage.
To all intents and purposes, the Tory party has become UKIP. Worryingly, it seems like for a lot of them, thats all they ever wanted to be.
Personally I think that for an unelected PM she's dragging the government a LOT further to the right, than the manifesto they won the last GM on. And with a majority now of only 11, the potential to come unstuck is pretty high
Hence her not wanting any parliamentary debate on Brexit, and certainly no vote. She knows full well she can't even get this present uber-nationalist, far right, la-la-land nonsense past her own backbenchers. Well... the sane ones. Who hopefully number enough to cancel out her tiny majority
As Kimbers has pointed out, every single policy she's proposed, not to mention the general mood music, could have come straight from the lips of Farage.To all intents and purposes, the Tory party has become UKIP. Worryingly, it seems like for a lot of them, thats all they ever wanted to be.
Personally I think that for an unelected PM she's dragging the government a LOT further to the right, than the manifesto they won the last GM on. And with a majority now of only 11, the potential to come unstuck is pretty high
Well at least the last sentence is factually correct.
The Brexit debate has nothing to do with RW v LW (yawn). It is a different issue altogether.
You can try and pretend that you arent a closet leftie THM, but we all know the truth
I agree with you to a certain degree Hurty.
Its a realignment within the Tory party. Most of his backbenchers (from their blue rinse constituencies) hated Dave, and his namely pamby Notting Hill liberalism (GAY MARRIAGE?!!!!!! WHAAAAAT?!!!!) but tolerated him as they knew that the Nasty Party couldn't get elected on its hang 'em and flog 'em agenda, which the (centrist) electorate had repeatedly rejected.
But with the Referendum result, they were able to effectively mount a coup, without having to put it to the electorate, who would reject it once again, even post referendum.
But even given that, the way that May has been busily airbrushing out anything and everything that her predecessor did has been quite dramatic.
You say they've not tacked to the right, but in a lot of areas right-wing and illiberal mean much the same thing.
In some areas, not so much. Like in traditional Labour northern constituencies, who are very socially conservative on a lot of issues, and equally as hostile to Dave's (and now Corbyn's) metropolitan liberalism
I am as leftie as wee nippy (thx duckie for that one!!) 😉
As before, I think LW/RW tags are meaningless as this thread is currently showing!
I prefer the authoritarian/libertarian axis personally!
.Hence her not wanting any parliamentary debate on Brexit, and certainly no vote
Apart from the fact the Government has not only confirmed the former will happen and then made good on it with 7 hours of time in the Commons spent debating Brexit the week before last and no doubt many hundreds of hours still to come.
Its true that due to unforeseen circumstances we have some more RW MPS in positions of power, but this is effective due to Brexshit. But I see more evidence that May herself is positioning the Tories in the centre ground that your comments above would suggest.
I am less concerned that she was unelected and more concerned that Fox and Bojo have got where they are despite giving plenty of reasons for why they should be blocked from high office - possibly any office.
She did everything in her power to stop a debate taking place, and she'll do everything in her power to make sure that parliament gets nowhere near the Brexit negotiations with anything as inconvenient as democratic oversight
This Taking Back Control lark is great isn't it? I really feel liberated
I am less concerned that she was unelected and more concerned that Fox and Bojo have got where they are despite giving plenty of reasons for why they should be blocked from high office - possibly any office.
agreed,
I see Gove is trying to shoehorn himself back into the news, Im sure hes waiting for the next ministerial position to open up 😮
Don't see any coverage in UK press but I am told EU Commission has announced that due "exceptional" circumstances certain countries (ie on the migrant routes) would be able to reintroduce full border controls. Formally tecognising that the Schengen system can't cope. All very late but what has been required for years. Of course this is just a rubber stamp on what EU members have been doing for some time to secure their borders in breach of EU regulations.
In other news head of WTO has said trade will of course continue. That the UK is already a member of the WTO (ie does not have to "re-join" as Remainers suggested) and it's trade arrangements will transition as required. He said he expects no major rediction in trade as a result of Brexit
Formally tecognising that the Schengen system can't cope
Didn't you say earlier that the EU never changes and can't adapt?
Parliament will not be part of detailed negotiations in the same way Parliament doesn't discuss military strategy. It is (was) not a legal requirement to consult Parliament in the event of a decision to use military force. Brexit process is consistent with that.
All this Parliamentary debate/vote stuff is an attempt to subvert Democracy
of course trade will continue, it's just that we have now made it more difficult and more costly. Odd then that BSers seem to delight in negative news from the EU. That is self-defeating.
He do not say that we do not have to rejoin. He merely said that the rejoining process would be straightforward. And his comments in trade were about the likelihood of a "seizure" in trade which is obviously not going to happen.
All this Parliamentary debate/vote stuff is an attempt to subvert Democracy
Even by your standards Jammers, thats priceless. Just read it back to yourself, and have a think about that statement for a second 😆
Didn't you say earlier that the EU never changes and can't adapt
🙂
Well they are not changing are they, they are retroactively and temporarily "approving" the illegal behaviour of member states 😯
Those EU 3rd Party export rules are going to be a right old kick in the gonads for UK manufacturing. blimey what a ****ing mess!
All this Parliamentary debate/vote stuff is an attempt to subvert Democracy
So discussing issues and voting on them is anti-democratic now?
[url= http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/reintroduction-border-control/index_en.htm ]http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/reintroduction-border-control/index_en.htm[/url]
You mean this?
Read the date