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Just goes to show that people vote(d) Labour for lots of different reasons.
So Tories have been slaughtered - lost 1000+ seats. Labour lost 100+ when they should have been winning big. Lib Dems and Independents gain 500+ each and greens 150, finally UKIP lose 99.
So that tells us there is a massive amount of discontent with main parties and it is substantially because of Brexit, but where does it take us? What can the Tories do to turn it around? Is it a big enough result to get Labour off the fence and if so which side do they jump onto?
Sadly,I think there is basically **** all the Tories can do as they are in complete disarray and the result isn't big enough to shift Labour. So back as you were... unfortunately
Jess Philips. I would soo vote for that woman; she’s bloody brilliant!
I think a hell of a lot of people would vote for Jess Phillips! She is indeed bloody brilliant!
But getting elected isn’t really the focus of the present Labour Party leadership, is it?
Wasn’t at all anything to do with at various points on this thread being called a nazi sympathiser
Are you sure that is what you were called? Not just an alt-right apologist, when you were arguing to implement alt-right policies as the best way to supposedly stop alt-right populism. And of course you are quite happy to insinuate that any one who disagrees with you is a liberal elite, champagne socialist, audi driving middle manager etc While you and you alone are the true voice of the working classes.
+1
I've been mildly irritated by the labelling of remain voting ex labour supporters as being champagne socialists. All the pissed off remainers I know are lower middle class ex state schoolers at best.
The accusation that you are libertarian communist Daz, was based not only on the libcom link, but your hard left anti globalist politics combined with your accusation that the EU is a dictatorship and your call for more devolved politics.
It's that or you're trolling us. Because the statements made are not debate that is designed to give balance - ninfan offered a more considered opinion.
Peston pointing out the obvious here
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1124349981350146049?s=19
Sadly the response from Labours leadership seems to be 'we must hurry up & help the Tories get Brexit over the line' 🙄🙄🙄
Theresa now saying how she 'welcomes comments from labour leader Jeremy Corbyn that both both parties must work towards a deal that can get Brexit over the line'
Magic Granda = Tory-enabler.
The Tory/Labour Brexit stitch up is due next week, both desperate to avoid EU elections...
https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1124325644136013824?s=21
Are you sure that is what you were called? Not just an alt-right apologist, when you were arguing to implement alt-right policies as the best way to supposedly stop alt-right populism. And of course you are quite happy to insinuate that any one who disagrees with you is a liberal elite, champagne socialist, audi driving middle manager etc While you and you alone are the true voice of the working classes.
I think the ‘nazi sympathiser’ thing might be a reference to me describing enacting an alt-right policy because ‘we have been told to’ as a weird sort of ‘Nuremberg Defence’. If so, this is either very thin-skinned or a bit of ‘totting up supposed insults to justify a flounce’.
For good or bad (and in good or bad taste) the ‘Nuremberg Defence’ is quite well-known slang for enacting shit decisions because, well, someone told me to......
I see Tony Robinson has resigned from the labour party over all this.
Shame
At least he would have had a cunning plan
Crikey a big win for Lib Dem 🤣
His replies are full of people calling him a Tory, of course.
If you criticise Reg then you face the wrath of the PFJ!
Brexit 0, Will of the people 1.
1 nil to Brexit still! Remain are just having a sustained period of pressure - similar to Liverpool when they were 1 down against Barcelona on weds.
Agree with Robinson. It is the leadership that is the cause of the Brexit problems and the anti-semitism problem. Anti-semitism is easy to fix and as leader I would have fixed that as soon as it was highlighted, Brexit could be easy by just pushing for remain and accepting the loss of votes (but the gain of other votes) and the continued against the will of the people crap from the media.
The leadership was not there or not on the right side.
Saying that, I would still 100% prefer a Labour party with a bad leader to a Tory party with any leader. Given my only option of Tory or Labour my decision is made easy.
I assume that was all sarcasm about the role of a party leader? I'm finding it harder and harder to tell in this thread. Agree that your choice was easy, I'd have also voted Labour given no other option but Conservative. Luckily we have a thriving democracy here, not a two party stitch up, so I had other decent options. Labour won strongly in my area anyway as it happens.
Someone show me a clip of Corbyn or May from yesterday that doesn't elicit the feeling… "how on Earth are they still carrying on like this?!" …please… I can't. Both have heavily outstayed their welcome.
The whole antisemitism thing is utter bunkum. Corbyn and co are anti Israels apartheid policies and pro self determination for the palestinians. This is not the same as being anti semetic.
Its a canard.
IMO the results of these elections while not good for labour ( and disastrous for the tories) need some careful analysis and no one message can be taken
From the grauniad:
Labour comfortably maintained control in pro-remain university cities such as Cambridge and Exeter, remaining unchanged in the former and losing one seat in the latter. Despite criticism from Ben Bradshaw, the pro-second-referendum Exeter MP, that the party’s Brexit message was “unclear”, there was no sign that Labour could be outflanked in its metropolitan heartlands by Change UK.
Where Labour struggled was in working-class areas, particularly in the north-east and to a lesser extent the east Midlands, where voters want Britain to leave the EU. Labour lost 14 seats in Bolsover, Derbyshire, which went to no overall control; and lost five in Hartlepool – a parliamentary seat once considered a Ukip target – and control of the council. No wonder, then, that John McDonnell declared the message from the electorate was: “Brexit – sort it.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/03/local-elections-five-things-we-have-learned-so-far
They keep citing Bolsover, yet next door in Bassetlaw Labour increased their numbers.
Besides 82 v 1334. I think it's the Tories that took the kicking. And yet the media have loved making it an equivalent drubbing.
Yeah, Labour nearly did as well as they did when they utterly failed in 2015 and the leader went on to resign.
Don't you get it, an incompetent incumbant government makes a massive drubbing, and labour makes 0 zero none null nada gains from that, and in fact still lose seats themselves (from an already incredibly poor performance in 215).
Yes, the massive loss to pro remain candidates needs analysing so that it can be twisted and contorted as full steam ahead for a blatantly failing leadership.
A message was sent yesterday, but both party leaders are too thick headed and arrogant to listen to it,
Read the detailed analysis. There is no simple answer to be taken from this.
Besides 82 v 1334. I think it’s the Tories that took the kicking. And yet the media have loved making it an equivalent drubbing.
How hard is it to understand that the bulk of those 1300 votes lost by the Tories* should have gone to labour if theyre to have any chance of winning a GE or anything else for that matter.
*Without being hyperbolic this is probably the most incompetent government in since ww2: 46 ministers quit or fired in <2years!, defence sec fired for leaking secrets on eve of election!......
Labour should have cleaned up, no wonder Corbyn looked so worried yesterday
The easiest game to play as a political pundit is to say: this set of election results proves I was right and vindicates the strategy I have recommended. But anyone claiming that these results offer clear answers for Labour are simply expressing what they would like the party to do. Some voices are arguing that Labour is being punished for not backing a second referendum; others that it is being damaged for whipping its MPs to vote for it twice; and many contend that Labour is being damaged because it is triangulating over the dominant political issue of our time. They are all correct. That does not, however, offer a guide as to what the party should do next.
From Owen Jones - a pro remain labour but not corbyn supporter writing in the gaurdian
The Labour leadership are looking for the answers only they want. They are ignoring the fact that the Pro Remain Lib Dems and Greens increased their share of the vote. However, I'm not surprised by their stance.
However, it is utterly delicious to see the tories implode and if we do have EU elections, they will implode even further.
Although I agree with Binners, May & Corbyn will probably cobble a Brexit deal together behind closed doors this week. This goes along with the noise coming from the Labour Leadership.
And even better, UKIP is now completely irrelevant.
Corbyn does not look well. I think it’s time for him to gallantly put his health before the needs of the country and step down.
His family need him more than we do.
The whole antisemitism thing is utter bunkum. Corbyn and co are anti Israels apartheid policies and pro self determination for the palestinians. This is not the same as being anti semetic.
Yes, we know the difference. However, there are people in the Labour membership who have made actual anti-semitic comments. They just need to be kicked straight out, problem solved.
What is the WTO definition of a customs union?
Would the Monster Raving Leave Party vote for it? Mogg always backs down.
Yes, we know the difference. However, there are people in the Labour membership who have made actual anti-semitic comments. They just need to be kicked straight out, problem solved.
Exactly, deal with the real cases of ani-semitism, fight back against the false allegations and the conflation of anti-semitism and opposing Israeli apartheid policies.
As with brexit, the labour leadership have sat in the middle of the road, dazzled in the headlights, dithering about what to do, done nothing and been crushed. And for the same reasons, they seem to be more concerned with losing and pandering to a minority of racist labour votes, than for standing up for the ideals and philosophies that made labour.
+1 MSP.
I am struggling to see what the party I have supported my entire life actually stands for any more.
The Irish Times has been consistently the best place to read Brexit coverage that benefits from a degree of seperation. Their take on yesterday’s results...May and Corbyn say big losses mean voters want them to deliver Brexit deal together
I think the next week will see the death of the Labour Party in its present form. It’s been in the post for a few years now anyway
Corbyn will try to whip his MPs to drive through Mays Brexit WA, which will trigger mass walkouts by the obvious suspects, but leave enough of a Corbynite rump to deliver Brexit and prevent EU elections taking place.
There will definitely not be a confirmatory referendum on whatever they’re cooking up
The Labour Party is effectively being sacrificed on the alter of a hard right project by the hard left
You couldn’t make it up!
You couldn’t make it up!
I couldn't, but you seem to be an expert at making it up.
A lot of Tories won't vote for a deal with Labour. It would kill the little bit of credibility they have left.
You couldn’t make it up!
I couldn’t, but you seem to be an expert at making it up.
The media coverage of the results is a bit simplistic - "Tories damaged by no deal leavers not voting and Labour by disenfranchised remainers voting LD/green"
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. There are plenty of remainer Tories, especially amongst the leafy suburb living professional classes who will have switched to LDs as well as previous Labour voters. Greens picked up lots of votes from Labour remainers too. But on the other side lots of Labour leave voters bought into the betrayal of democracy narrative and didn't vote. Also the big increase in indie councillors can be either a pro/anti brexit issue or local factors amplified by Brexit.
You also really have to look behind the headline number of first past the post victors to the voting. Big green and LD surges in some wards and low turnouts - but just not enough to oust sitting Tory or Labour.
Local issues did play through as well (green belt development was a big deal and greens campaigned hard locally) but really secondary
... as others have said I think this will force May to compromise enough for Labour to sign up to a deal on WA inc CU.
Be interesting to see what amendments would be tabled, votes called and whipped and who does what in terms of following the whip
The big question is , whatever the labcons come up with will it work with the EU?
I don;t think thats the issue zippy - a deal is possible that would work for the EU. However I very much doubt they could get a majority in the commons for it. Hard brexiteers will not vote for anything including a customs union. Many tories will not vote for a deal that labour want. Many labour MPs will not vote for a deal that does not include a second referendum
Also there is not enough time left to avoid the EU elections.
Both parties are positioning themselves to blame the other for when the cross party talks fail
Olddog and the differences in different areas. Labour did OK in remain areas and poorly in leave areas.
Depends how close the CU and SM fudges arrangements are to what we already have, otherwise that pesky Irish backstop will be a show stopper once again when we go back to the EU with WA 1.1
Labour did OK in remain areas and poorly in leave areas.
The main remain areas didn't vote. And looking thorugh this:
it's the LibDems who did best in the leave by a small margin areas, because I'm not going to call areas that had a leave majority remain areas.
Labour didn't do OK by any reasonable measure, the Conservatives and UKIP did really badly and Labour did badly. The Greens did well, the Libdems did well and the others did OK.
but from what I have read the labour vote held up reasonably well in remain areas and badly in leave areas.
My point merely being its hard to draw conclusions from this as to the public mood over brexit.
Lib dems are also recovering from a complete collapse in their vote.