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It's very different for your region TJ, but sadly, for most of us, we'll probably get Brexit Party, Tory & Labour MEPs… and no ChangeUK or Green MEPs, because of the thresholds. The parties most likely to join the "top" three and sneak seats are the LibDems & UKIP… but if ChangeUK & Greens do better than currently expected, then it could just result in no LibDem MEPs. Messy.
Edit (useful analysis) : https://ig.ft.com/european-parliament-election-polls/
England FT seat projection (17/04/19):
Lab 26
Cons 16
Brexit 12
LibDems 5
UKIP 1
ChangeUK 0
Greens 0
No it is not.
French press are reporting Farage doing well in polls.
Labour need to choose quickly or will be decimated.
Yes it WAS- but it is not as Binners characterises it nor is that immutable or cast in stone - there is a very large majority in the party for remain / second ref.
Labour had to go into the last election with "respect the vote" however unlike the tories there is a jhuge majority in the party for remain and as policy develops its moving further and further away from this
As for not wanting the eu elections - just sheer drivel.
but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit
Bullshit - sheer nonsense.
Labour is NOT a brexit party.
Agreed. But while "the party" allows Corbyn, Milne & Murray to keep control, then it will get the Brexit that those life long anti-EU campaigners want. A vote for Labour is a vote of support for that leadership, no matter how strong the current (and possible new) Labour MEPs are on this.
sheer nonsense
You are correct. Some key whipping decisions were to abstain, rather than actively support. Much the same result though.
there is a very large majority in the party for remain / second ref.
And Corbyn obviously cares what they all think, right? He whipped them to vote to trigger article 50, against remaining in the customs union, then against remaining in the single market.
Less a cunning plan, more just nodding through the Brexit he's always wanted
So Binners - Starmer is a hard brexiteer is he? Watson? or are they not apart of the leadership?
Both regularly ignored. He didn't even take them into his cross-party talks with May. He took Seamus Milne instead. A rabid Brexiteer
And his cabal have spent the last 12 months trying to get Watson deselected
Corbyn talks about democracy, but all his actions ignore everyone else's opinions other than those in his inner sanctum. And they're all Brexiteers
+1 Binners.
Judge a man by his actions - or in Corbyn’s case his inactions too.
but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit
Sorry you are going to have to help me out here since I am sure its me getting it wrong and you not making up bollocks but how on earth was the whipping for the indicative votes (for example) aiming to facilitate brexit.
Barry Gardiner
and yet others disagree. I am not sure why you are deifying Barry?
He didn’t even take them into his cross-party talks with May
The current members of the cross party talks Labour team are Starmer, McDonnell, Long-Bailey and Hayman.
Why are you so adverse to the truth?
Indeed disonance
And his cabal have spent the last 12 months trying to get Watson deselected
also bullshine.
Both regularly ignored. He didn’t even take them into his cross-party talks with May.
Pretty sure Starmer has been in the talks.
dge a man by his actions – or in Corbyn’s case his inactions too.
Don't judge a man by what you read about him in the media...
I judge a man by the way he’s led his party..
Holding together a badly split party? Increasing membership enormously?
Badly split by his leadership....
If you vote Labour then you're voting for a party whose leadership is fully committed to Brexit
If you can't see that, then you're delusional
Plenty of us (former labour voters) can see that and will be switching our vote accordingly. Hence I can see an 11th-hour stitch up to get a Brexit deal through before the deadline for EU elections is reached
Wait, Corbyn caused the split over Brexit? Don't be silly.
Rightly or wrongly, those in favour of Brexit have a couple of clear choices of party to vote for, with UKIP and Farage. Those in favour of Remain have a couple of choices, not likely to be as successful. Why would any Remain-inclined voter vote for Labour when their policy is so muddied and unclear? This is the danger of trying to walk a middle ground. Labour can only hope there is no need for these EU elections at all.
In other news, relating to the splitting of the remain vote...
https://www.renewparty.org.uk/press_releases
Let's simultaneously defend Corbyn for his stated aims (and whipping of MPs) to get the UK out of the EU, out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, to end FoM… AND claim that he in no way wants Brexit to happen. Keep on dancing… and hope voters hear what they want to hear and keep voting Labour (I'm done with it personally).
In his interview Healey also rejected the suggestion that Labour was the remain party. Andrew Adonis, the Labour peer, arch anti-Brexiter and MEP candidate in the South West, made this claim in a Guardian article this week in which he wrote: “Labour is the party for remainers.” But Healey said he did not accept this description of the party’s position. He told the programme:
just to show the split.
If you vote Labour then you’re voting for a party whose leadership is fully committed to Brexit
If you can’t see that, then you’re delusional
Funnny that a large part of the leadership are committed remainers. funny that policy is not for brexit.
who is delusional?
Let’s simultaneously defend Corbyn for his stated aims (and whipping of MPs) to get the UK out of the EU, out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, to end FoM
cite? Because that bears very little resemblance to what I actually read from them. And how they have voted.
so you must have all these quotes at your fingertips to be so definite.
If you want to end EU membership, leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, end FoM, and are against a referendum on any Brexit that you have a hand in… you are fully committed to Brexit. The fact that you want a Labour Brexit rather than a Tory Brexit doesn't change the fact that you want Brexit.
Because that bears very little resemblance to what I actually read from them. And how they have voted.
FFS TJ, take the blinkers off.
Lets see the quotes then? Its not me who is blinkered here. I just like the truth to be told and nuanced positions to be considered for what they are.
so come on - lets see the quotes backing what you say - because what you say bears zero resemblance to what I read from the labour party
Read back a few pages and stop time wasting.
https://twitter.com/labourlist/status/1113444483138347009?s=21
From the Labour Party website
Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.
Can't say it clearer than that, can they?
The leadership, such as they are, are all life-long committed Brexiteers. We’ve been over this countless times, but at every single critical vote Corbyn has whipped his MPs to facilitate Brexit
Magic grandpa and some of his leadership may be brexiters, but a large percentage of his Mps aren't.
Both parties are split.
I'm not sure whether the brexit party doing well in the euro elections will actually make that much of a difference. It may put some pressure on Parliament, but if we are still in the EU come june, like UKIP they won't make an impact in the EU parliament.
From the Labour Party website
Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.
Can’t say it clearer than that, can they?
It obviously depends on who has admin rights to update the website 😉
I'm assuming the labour leaders must know how dodgy the leave vote was, yet they still ignore the facts and back an attack on democracy by right wing Americans.
Anyone that "respects" the vote is a traitor and I will rain down upon you with my gammony wrath.
Magic grandpa and some of his leadership may be brexiters, but a large percentage of his Mps aren’t.
Neither are the majority of labour members or labour voters. But when has that ever bothered Corbyn? Let's not forget that here's a man who lost a vote of no confidence by his own MP's by 172-40, then carried on like it hadn't happened, championing 'the membership' who's opinions he's now treating with similar regard
David Liddington has just mockingly answered Emily Thornbury at PMQ's that she appears to be on outside the 'inner circle' in Brexit negotiations. It's pretty obvious to anyone who Corbyns actual inner circle is. They've all Brexiteers, as its the only people he's listening too. If he's, in fact, listening to anyone. It'd be a first.
Would anyone honestly be surprised if there was some kind of stitch-up to get Brexit through before EU elections being held, given past form at these critical moments, of facilitation
I'd be surprised, as the European Elections will be much harder for the Tories than Labour, and us ending up with a Labour government with 12 months becomes more likely, not less, if the elections are allowed to play out. Something I'd welcome, if it wasn't likely to result in Corbyn's Brexit, with no referendum in which we might stop it.
the European Elections will be much harder for the Tories than Labour, and us ending up with a Labour government with 12 months becomes more likely,
I'm not so sure that one follows from the other. Regardless of the result, one or both of Tories and Labour will claim that the Euro Elections did not directly reflect the feelings of the electorate regarding internal governance of the UK and will ignore any bad result as being irrelevant.
Schrödingers Referendum
A drubbing for the Tories means a new leader is more likely… that new leader may well result in enough MPs leaving the party for the government to fall, or at least make calling a general election to try and get a working majority harder to resist.
Labour (at any level, and with any opinion on Brexit) won't try and prevent the European Elections just to save May.
A drubbing for the Tories means a new leader is more likely
Only if May decides to step down though? I thought she was safe for another year?
Rules likely to change if European Elections go ahead.
eu elections are list PR elections. splitting of the vote does not occur in the same way as with FPTP. one party with 40% of the vote will get the same seats as two parties with 20% each.
It still splits the vote as there are reaminder / leftover votes after each seat, these could add up to more seats. Not to mention areas where they may be hovering around minimal thresholds.
edit - doesn't work
One thing is for certain. Absolutely anything could happen in these EU elections. Surely this is the first electoral test for the new politics where traditional party loyalties have never counted for less, one issue will derail everything else, and there's never been so much anger, from all sides, at the established political system
You'd have to be mental to predict what's going to happen!
From the Labour Party website
Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU.
Can’t say it clearer than that, can they?
TJ - can it be any clearer?
Are you going to correct your previous claims? Or just keep gish galloping/finding a "hilarious" image to post.
and there’s never been so much anger, from all sides, at the established political system
Which is going to be odd considering just how establishment the two new parties are. Stuffed full or career politicans and/or family members of career politicans. Still I suspect a fair few idiots will fall for it.
That is perfectly clear and is the labour policy AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION. Its changing and nuanced far more than Binners " corbyn is a hard brexiteer at all costs shtick" That position now is superseded by " second referendum"
""There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey. The truth is that it’s in our hands: Brexit is what we make of it together."
JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY"
https://labour.org.uk/issues/labours-plan-brexit/
Seems pretty clear to me..
I thought she was safe for another year?
until the end of the year although there are tories pushing for the rules to be changed so they can redo a internal party no confidence vote earlier (in some cases the same MPs who have said that the referendum is final and no second vote. That they not only want a second vote but to change the rules to make it earlier doesnt seem to have struck them as hypocritical). Also Labour could go for no confidence vote and tory MPs could back it/abstain to get her out.