There were a few younger men there and they all seemed to have very short hair
A very very no longer a mate of mine is plastering Tommy Robinson all over his Facebook and falling out with people who don't agree with him .Wasn't a particularly simple lad but one of these who believed he was a leader but didn't see he was easily led...it's easy to see how the people get led up the path to ****ing stupidity
tommy robinson bringing out the best in people
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1111920592515747840
Common sense in the guardian yesterday.
The tragedy of this is that I'm almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely, instead of seizing the opportunity and uniting to put the final nail into the tories coffin, the labour party will return to it's obsession with Corbyn and tear itself apart as well. We'll end up with Boris or some other **** as PM because some labour MPs won't be able to swallow their pride.
Why is the path unclear,
When we know home is near.
Understand we'll go hand in hand,
But we'll walk alone in fear. (Tell me)
Tell me where do we go from here.
When does the end appear,
When do the trumpets cheer.
The curtains close, on a kiss god knows,
We can tell the end is near...
Where do we go from here
Where do we go from here
Where do we go
from here
Is it down to the lake, I fear?
The tragedy of this is that I’m almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely, instead of seizing the opportunity and uniting to put the final nail into the tories coffin, the labour party will return to it’s obsession with Corbyn and tear itself apart as well.
I agree. I am not a labour supporter ,(or a Tory supporter) but Crobyn doesn't seem to be doing much other than heckling from the sidelines and trying to make (limited) political gains. May seems crazy but Corbyn just seems weak with nothing else concrete to propose.
toby young & claire fox on newsnight yesterday, were angry & bitter
De facto Toby Young. Pure cock.
Lots opposing May's deal because potentially the backstop,the insurance policy that may be called upon if a trading arrangement isn't decided and so could mean a hard border between Eire and NI even though UK,Eire and the EU say they don't want one.
WTO rules/No deal/Hard Brexit = Hard border
Customs union, which now seems to be the flavour everyone is talking about also potentially means a hard border.
Am confused
The tragedy of this is that I’m almost certain that if there is a new election, which looks very likely,
Plenty of people keep saying this. Can't see the Tories letting this happen.
An election won't actually be fought on Brexit by Labour - it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
Tinge / Change / Chukka party will try and fight on Brexit etc.
If it happens...
but Crobyn doesn’t seem to be doing much other than heckling from the sidelines
Or perhaps he's keeping his head down in order to hold his party together because it's so fragile that any opinion expressed either way will simply widen the cracks? Myself and others (TJ in particular) have asked many times what he should do and no one has yet offered a meaningful answer.
Corbyn just seems weak with nothing else concrete to propose.
Other than their party policy, which they have repeatedly and consistently pushed since last September, what would you have them propose?
Customs union, which now seems to be the flavour everyone is talking about also potentially means a hard border.
No. A permanent customs (EU/UK) union means the opposite.
EU/NI would be a hard border.
No. A permanent customs (EU/UK) union means the opposite.
EU/NI would be a hard border.
Are you sure?
"What about Corbyn’s plan to place the UK in a permanent customs union with the EU? This would certainly eliminate the need for customs controls to collect tariffs – as a customs union would eliminate tariffs on all goods crossing internal frontiers. But it would not eliminate customs controls entirely. This can be seen from the fact that between 1973 and 1992, the UK and Ireland were in a Corbyn-style customs union with each other (called the European Economic Community) and yet customs controls were maintained.
Member states of a customs union can maintain all sorts of regulations – such as health standards, agricultural controls and minimum product standards – and goods entering the market need to be checked for compliance with these. This is exactly what customs officers along the Northern Irish border were doing until the single market emerged in 1993.
Only in a single market are such standards harmonised or mutually recognised on a comprehensive basis – without the need for customs checks. This is why it was possible to abolish systematic customs checks along the border in 1993. "
Turkey is in the custom's union and has a hard border with the EU.
An election won’t actually be fought on Brexit by Labour – it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
In which case labour will be setting themselves up to fail
We have at least a decade of the much more complex future relationship to navigate.
In power of labor world be sucked into the same Brexit black hole as the Tories have been for the last 3 years, everything else will be pushed aside.
Bristol Museum exhibited Banksy’s Devolved Parliament for Brexit Day yesterday. Still there today. Quite a bit bigger than I’d thought. 😀
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Turkey is in the custom’s union and has a hard border with the EU.
Depends what you mean by a hard border. Switzerland isn't in the CU but you can travel freely from neighbouring EU countries. Goods have to be checked though.
Goods have to be checked though
.
Having goods checked at the NI border would breach the GFA.
For example if you have a warehouse on one side and a retail outlet on the other, you'd be getting customs checked constantly, which would be in direct contravention of:
• the right to equal opportunity in all social and economic activity,
regardless of class, creed, disability, gender or ethnicity;
If you compare that example to someone operating purely in NI, or purely in the rebublic, you wouldn't be subject to checks.
Therefore if you do conduct cross border economic activity, your right to equal economic opportunity would be breached.
An election won’t actually be fought on Brexit by Labour – it will be fought on all the other shite stuff everyone has forgotten about (austerity, crime, NHS).
Which is why I voted Labour last time, since both major parties had the same view on Brexit. But now my MP says Labour stood on a platform of supporting Brexit so she has to support it…
Switzerland is in EFTA and is part of the singlemarket which is a lot closer than just the custom's union.
Having goods checked at the NI border would breach the GFA
So if that's the case then that rules out WTO(ERG) or being in the custom's union(labour et al) so makes opposing the backstop whether your ERG or Labour somewhat contradictory??
Unless neither side wants to apply checks......
The only deal that will be passed is one that lines the pockets of the elite and throws the normal's further into the gutter. If you voted leave or remain, it doesn't matter. Years of history will show you that those in charge only care for themselves and no one else. Until they agree on a deal that doesn't tarnish their political stance but furthers their social and financial status then you will get a conclusion to what is now a global fiasco.
So if that’s the case then that rules out WTO(ERG) or being in the custom’s union(labour et al)
That's how I read it, yes.
I'm not a lawyer, but the Belfast agreement is not a particularly long or complex document, it's written in very plain language, presumably so it can't be misinterpreted.
They could rip up the Belfast agreement, I suppose.
Disregarding International peace treaties isn't a good look though if you're looking to do international trade deals.
Apparently Nigel Dodds would rather cancel Brexit than see the break up of the UK.
That's about the only sensible thing I have ever heard from the DUP.
dazh
Myself and others (TJ in particular) have asked many times what he should do and no one has yet offered a meaningful answer.
Oppose Brexit.
Oppose anything that makes the elite even richer and the workers worse off regardless if what the policy is called.
Oppose Brexit.
You need think through how that would play out with labour voters, MPs within his party and with the media. Not a great idea.
Not if you've got a lack of bollocks, no I guess not.
Switzerland is in EFTA and is part of the singlemarket which is a lot closer than just the custom’s union.
Switzerland is not a member of the single market but does participate in it. The lack of CU creates considerable border friction for goods.
You need think through how that would play out with labour voters, MPs within his party and with the media. Not a great idea.
They are not exactly cleaning up at the polls with their current position.
Kerley, you mean the Labour voters who are mostly remainers? How does the maths of pissing off the majority to appease a minority stack up?
Labour will be decimated by remain voters leaving them.
yep.
Oppose anything that makes the elite even richer and the workers worse off regardless if what the policy is called.
Agreed.
Or, at the very least, allow the workers to vote on any deal proposed.
Exactly, it has been publicised for the past 2 years, that even in Labour seats that voted leave, the majority of labour voters were for remain. By still supporting leave, labour are ignoring the majority of their supporters to chase either ill informed or probably more likely racist voters who are unlikely to vote for any kind of progressive government anyway.
They have been blatantly barking up the wrong tree, but like May, are so entrenched in their stupidity they are wilfully ignoring the bloody obvious.
And the most infuriating thing is that both May and Corbyn, have acknowledged that the result was a protest against austerity and inequality, and then rather than deal with that they both just plow ahead supporting a populist agenda that will make those issues worse.
But won't you think of the poor downtrodden noble working class heroes who voted leave MSP, you elitist remainer. 😀
Remainers are so horrible, this has been made clear by the violent angry remain protest - whilst the pro brexit demonstration was a peaceful day all about campaigning for wholesome socialist values and definitely not because they are all racists like the nasty hurtful remainers say.
And the most infuriating thing is that both May and Corbyn, have acknowledged that the result was a protest against austerity and inequality, and then rather than deal with that they both just plow ahead supporting a populist agenda that will make those issues worse.
On the flip side the leave vote and result , the subsequent Brexit parliamentary paralysis and May's ill fated GE have meant that the Tories have been unable to pursue the agenda begun under Cameron/Osborne in 2010 and mitigated by Clegg(if you believe him).If there'd been no Brexit where do you think Cameron/Osborne's austerity would be now, untrammelled?
are so entrenched in their stupidity they are wilfully ignoring the bloody obvious.
ermm. Have you actually bothered to look at the recent Labour whips?
That the recent rebellions have been by those wanting brexit? Which, incidentally, would tend to indicate its a tad more complicated than your simplistic viewpoint.
It's all selfish party politics though.
The sooner the actual problem is addressed, the sooner progress might happen.
But good luck with with that, both Conservatives and Labour are sacks of fighting Rats who have forgotten what thier job actually is, which is to act in the best interest of the country.
bothy parties are sacks of fighting Rats
Ours was actually a really enjoyable,chilled experience 🙂
ermm. Have you actually bothered to look at the recent Labour whips?
That the recent rebellions have been by those wanting brexit? Which, incidentally, would tend to indicate its a tad more complicated than your simplistic viewpoint.
lol
Sorry, I should have specified 'political paties' 😉
It’s all selfish party politics though.
Again thats a oversimplification. Say that you really believe in your party ideology then you will see a strong party being a strong country.
Whilst brexit will do a lot of damage to the country (depending on the flavour)you may consider the risk that if your party stopped it and got wiped out due to it that the damage caused to the country by having the other party having a massive majority and ability to do what it wants potentially far worse.
Thats leaving aside those putting personal gain above both country and party.
Kerley, you mean the Labour voters who are mostly remainers? How does the maths of pissing off the majority to appease a minority stack up?
Because thanks to FPTP losing the minority is all it takes to lose an election and not be in government. That principle is exactly why we are in this mess.
Kerley, you mean the Labour voters who are mostly remainers? How does the maths of pissing off the majority to appease a minority stack up?
You need to do the maths and then you will see. How marginal are the Labour leave seats, could they switch to Tory just to leave and on the flip side how marginal are the remain Labour seats and could they switch to Lib Den or the dodgy independent group.
I will still vote Labour over any other party as there are much more important things to me than a Brexit that will most likely never happen and the only party that comes close to having policies that provide those important things (and more importantly could even win) is Labour