The UK wouldn't be looking for unrestricted access to said trade area but not tariffs levied so high as a punishment for leaving the EU either just fair ones. Markus Kerber warned of the stupidity of putting up such barriers as he knows like other sensible business people that you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
In the event of leave the UK has to negotiate it's deal and come up with one that about 20 other countries are happy with. If we can't in 2 years then it's wto tariffs by default. The UK will be negotiating from a weaker position. It won't be punishment just the best deal we could come up with like pay 100million a week and accept free movement of people...
Does the European Parliament have the power to effect change in respect of trade policy?
Someone with a grievance ought to know...?
General point is, you can't say something doesn't work if you haven't even tried.
So initiative, which is key, lies with the Commission not the Parliament.
Can the MPs talk to the commission?
you lot do know that campaigning is ment to stop on polling day? 😆
Your MEPs are your elected representatives in the European Union. Their job is to represent your interests and those of your city or region in Europe. They do this by listening to people with local and national concerns, to interest groups and businesses. Where necessary, they question and lobby the Commission and the Council of Ministers.
Yes, they can talk to the commission - and on your behalf too.
I'm pretty disappointed that we are even having a referendum on the leaving the EU.
It won't be punishment just the best deal we could come up with like pay 100million a week and accept free movement of people...
But, but, what about the new hospitals?
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GBallows you to block users of your choice
Can I suggest a modification to pre-configure a block on chewy? It would save us all a few extra clicks.
Well, this has decided it for me:
We won't be punished as such if we leave , everyone wants to trade but the EU have to send a strong warning to other countries with vocal exit minority parties, like Austria and Holland.
The EU will take a hit to trade if it means keeping the union together.
They hit Switzerland by shutting down cooperation on science and university exchanges etc , affecting the pharmaceutical industry is a big source of national revenue (and pride)
I'd also expect a lot of effort to woo car manufacturers, banks etc, to the continent
How long do we think before this all dies down again? Win lose or draw it's never going to go away - but Jesus wept it's all a bit much now isn't it?
I've voted so my job is done, I guess we'll have a fair idea of the outcome by morning - next week will be a bun fight, but I'm hoping by Mid-July there will be a bit of a lull, maybe we can all enjoy a quiet August without every conversation turning into a battle royale.
Unless we leave of course, then we're ****ed for years (conversationally*)
*and literally
Did you contact your EU MP to ask them why they hadn't done it? I wonder if the Chinese demanded it in return for something else..?
The European MP's had to wait on the report from the Council to determine if market had been distorted unfairly by excess market supply before they could contemplate emergency tariffs to protect the EU community.
The UK government were lobbying the EU to reduce the tariffs on chinese steel probably for more investment from China. The EU could have raised the tariffs quicker and higher on Chinese steal to protect the EU steel industries but instead did so slowly and not by very much up to 45% less than levied on Russian steel, which suffers the same tariffs the USA applies to British steel. The USA applied 265% on Chinese steel.
Yes more politics than actually protecting industries. No over ruling the UK government here for the greater good or actually taking action on a country that deliberately devalued the steel price putting industries and communities at risk.
briliant! 😆bencooper - Member
Well, this has decided it for me:
This how the press operates, and how they are manipulating people:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/10-best-euro-myths-from-custard-creams-to-condoms
Face it stay or leave, it'll be fine, use the force! 😆
So initiative, which is key, lies with the Commission not the Parliament.
No as you missed this bit out.
The Commission must request an authorisation to negotiate a trade agreement with a trading partner from the Council, which sets out the general objectives to be achieved.
Your broad point, that an MEP cannot do much, [which is equally true that an average MP cannot "initiate UK trade policy either" ] is a fair one.
I don't think seeing my own MP will have much sway over say Our trading with china but YMMV on that point.
Had an old friend post something on FB last night. Propaganda about the horrors of 28 unelected EU commissioners
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with the comment
The goons that presently Govern the UK may well be far from perfect but at least they are elected in a democratic process by the people of Great Britain.These unknown bureaucrats are not.
Vote LEAVE
He's gone silent since I replied
Dwarfed by the 751 elected MEPs in the European parliament who are voted for.Also dwarfed by the 760 UNELECTED members of the house of lords in the UK. An unelected body of the super rich who can dictate UK law.
The UK government were lobbying the EU to reduce the tariffs on chinese steel probably for more investment from China.
So wait - the EU was better for protecting Welsh steel than the UK govt?
The USA applied 265% on Chinese steel.
Hmm.. So US manufacturers are forced to use expensive steel wherever it comes from.. thereby making their products more expensive.. hmm... Complex this innit 🙂 US cars are well known to be shit, because they have to cut corners to keep purchase cost down - not because they don't have good engineering and manufacturing skills. If US cars weren't so shit then maybe they'd sell better over here?
An unelected body of the super rich who can dictate UK law.
Actually, they can't dictate, they can only advise.
[quote=molgrips ]An unelected body of the super rich who can dictate UK law.
Actually, they can't dictate, they can only advise.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/work-of-the-house-of-lords/what-the-lords-does/
The Lords has three main roles:[b]Making laws[/b]
In-depth consideration of public policy
Holding government to account
^ they are also not unelected as they have to be approved or or elected by the MEPS
Its also worth noting we don't vote for the PM and cannot remove them nor any secretary of state who are the UK equivalents
the democracy argument is so weak as any system using FPTP, with a merged legislature and executive with unelected second chamber - Larger than the primary legislator - unlike anywhere else on the planet- with an unelected head of state their by birth right cannot give lecture on "lack of democracy".
They hit Switzerland by shutting down cooperation on science and university exchanges etc
they actually refused to negotiate with them when they had the vote to end free movement they said it was all or nothing
That will be their position with us
I suspect the best we will get is a long slow withdrawal[ decade ish] to allow both sides to diversify their economies.
They wont move from an all or nothing position as they did not when dave went to deal and they will not do if we vote to leave
This how the press operates, and how they are manipulating people:
I agree the Guardian has been pumping out Remain dross for weeks
Notice I didn't say 'tabloid' press!
The Lords has three main roles:
Making laws
In-depth consideration of public policy
Holding government to account
So explain the parliament act to me then?
I suspect the best we will get is a long slow withdrawal[ decade ish] to allow both sides to diversify their economies.
They wont move from an all or nothing position as they did not when dave went to deal and they will not do if we vote to leave
Once article 50 is dropped (if it needs to be) there is a strict 2 year window to negotiate. End of window take the deal on the table or go to the same as the rest of the world.
So wait - the EU was better for protecting Welsh steel than the UK govt?
They were both equally useless but the point of the EU is supposed to be all in it together, [i]unless it benefits another with more influence[/i]
Hmm.. So US manufacturers are forced to use expensive steel wherever it comes from.. thereby making their products more expensive.. hmm... Complex this innit US cars are well known to be shit, because they have to cut corners to keep purchase cost down - not because they don't have good engineering and manufacturing skills. If US cars weren't so shit then maybe they'd sell better over here?
Buying goods from the EU you know that they are to the same standards throughout the union, produced by people who are treated fairly.
What standards do the Chinese have for production and workers rights?
Are we bypassing this part of the EU now? Are you also arguing that the UK out of the EU can benefit from buying cheaper elsewhere?
I think we've already established that jobs aren't a priority only the business profits.
Built for very different markets which is main reason they don't too well over here.If US cars weren't so shit then maybe they'd sell better over here?
molgrips - Member - Quote
Notice I didn't say 'tabloid' press!The Lords has three main roles:
Making laws
In-depth consideration of public policy
Holding government to account
So explain the parliament act to me then?
Whataboutery
The bottom line is you have 760 unelected super-rich people who have the ability to create or influence laws, yet somehow folk are getting their knickers in a twist about 28 bureaucrats in Belgium
So explain the parliament act to me then?
Commons has primacy
Lords can delay for one year
Only 7 bill shave ever used this as convention means the Commons usually reconsider - see Tax credits for the most recent example of this
Financial and Manifesto pledges exempt
http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/parliamentacts/
Once article 50 is dropped (if it needs to be) there is a strict 2 year window to negotiate. End of window take the deal on the table or go to the same as the rest of the world.
It would be unwise to do this as when we do we are effectively not in the EU and we have to accept the deal they offer or leave
there will be a period of negotiation IMHO
Are you also arguing that the UK out of the EU can benefit from buying cheaper elsewhere?
No, I'm explaining why it's perhaps not a good idea to use headline facts as a basis for arguments, especially when it comes to international trade.
I think we've already established that jobs aren't a priority only the business profits.
We did? Explain that please?
Seems ridiculous that some STW Remainers will consist of those that voted for a Labour government a few years back that was responsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of foreign men, women and children.
These virtue signallers never lost a moments sleep over it.
They now see fit to speak of leavers as uncaring racist scum. Crazy.
Seems ridiculous that [s]some STW Remainers will consist of those that voted for a Labour government a few years back that was responsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of foreign men, women and children.
These virtue signallers never lost a moments sleep over it.[/s][b] People seem to make the most idiotic links and expect to be taken seriously[/b]
FIFY
voted for a Labour government a few years back that was responsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of foreign men, women and children.
Your ignorance is like a shining beacon warning all to steer clear
The Iraq war vote was almost defeated by a labour rebellion, a third of labour MPs rebelled, the LDs abstained and it only passed because 9 out of 10 Torries voted for it....
Two thirds Labour didn't rebel then . .
We did? Explain that please?
USA imposed a high tariff of 265% to protect it's steel industry but you said
Hmm.. So US manufacturers are forced to use expensive steel wherever it comes from.. thereby making their products more expensive.. hmm...
They were building the cars with the US steel before and the government prevented the car manufacturers from making short term profits from using cheap steel that would have crippled their steel industry which would have had a much higher long term cost.
You seem to think that it was OK to use cheap steel regardless of consequences as it was more profitable.
voted for a Labour government a few years back that was responsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of foreign men, women and children.
For ****'s sake, that wasn't a ****ing manifesto pledge was it? You trying to suggest that Labour voters are pro-war?
Did you forget the mass demonstrations against the war or what?
You really aren't equipped for this. Don't vote.
The Lords is predominately appointed by elected politicians (approx 85%) as Commissioners to the EU are - although for life rather than a limited term. The big difference is that the Lords can not initiate laws whereas the Commission does. Initiation of law is what gives a government power and this is key to any analysis of relative power of institutions - the EU Parliament powers are predominately rights to veto/approve not initiation of law.
You really aren't equipped for this. Don't vote
That's rich. And poor.
wheel2wheel - Member
You really aren't equipped for this. Don't vote
That's rich.
From the guy who suggested Labour voters wanted to go to war in Iraq? That they voted for a party that did that?
Guess what when I vote for a party I don't agree with everything in their manifesto, we are not all drones, you pick the best fit (and I'm sure declare war and invade Iraq & Afghanistan wasn't just hidden in the small print next to make stuff awesome. Such simple concepts...
Seems ridiculous that some STW Remainers will consist of those that voted for a Labour government a few years back that was responsible for the deaths of 100s of thousands of foreign men, women and children.
These virtue signallers never lost a moments sleep over it.They now see fit to speak of leavers as uncaring racist scum. Crazy.
AH graham its you that is back with the same stupid trolls that folk still respond to
And you are happy then that Tony Blair may be a future president of the EU? Happy to vote Remain for this?
And you are happy then that Tony Blair may be a future president of the EU? Happy to vote Remain for this?
And Boris Johnson may be Prime Minister if the vote is to leave: Are you happy to live with that?
Has the sun got under the bridge?
The big difference is that the Lords can not initiate laws
YES IT CAN
the EU Parliament powers are predominately rights to veto/approve not initiation of law.
This is essentially true of our parliament- though on paper I accepts its different but the reality is the same.
Our ministers are the " unelected commissioners" our MPs are the MEPS and the Lords are
There is a lottery for private members bills[ which can come from the lords or the commons] NONE of which can get passed without government support so its not a "real" power.
away from the detailed academic argument the Guardian summed some of these things up really well.
Question for voters: The EU is different, and differently democratic. Does this make it undemocratic and unaccountable beyond reform – and if so, would that justify leaving?
Just tweet
#VOTE-YES or #VOTE-NO to @NobodyCaresAnymore
Daughter's school had a vote.
The kids know where their future lies.
Or they saw the way the leave campaign was framed and want nothing to do with it.
Either way, huge majority for remain.
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You sidestepped the question Mikey74. We can get rid of Boris.
A vote to Remain could easily get Blair at the helm of an even more powerful EU.
A vote to Remain is a real chance of you getting Blair. Maybe you are OK with the Wars after all?
