[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Its hard to say.. both sides has sound points..but in history perspective..it wont go right. I like EU but only the strongest the original 9... overexpansion is a big no-no ..we wont see it yet... the fall of every empire is overexpansion... when will it ends..russia africa to be part of EU? ..for this i am out.

Its hard to say..

If it's hard to say, why are you so sure that leaving is the appropriate thing to do. Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction from somebody who is easily led to me.

but in history perspective..it wont go right.

Correct, a government whipping up a large portion of a country's population to believe someone else is to blame for the mess they have presided over has happened before. About 70 years ago, to be precise.

Zokes its hard to say because i did not vote because of the arguements of the current situation..i try to see things beyond now or this generation.. the reason of my choice is purely based on history nothing else.. whatever happens to current economy will eventually corrects itself.

Well trading all the good things against the chance that the EU expands into africa and implodes does sound logical...

Posting stuff from FB is nearly as lame as Chewy's stupid videos, but this is quite amusing

friday's going to be amazing! i'm going to wake up in my Union Jack jim-jams to the sound of a squadron of Spitfires racing overhead and leaving a trail of hot buttered crumpets behind them

I'll run to the corner shop past all the british children who are laughing and squealing with excitement as they make a beautiful statue of the queen out of happy wriggling bulldog puppies - with two corgis for her eyebrows!

bunting flutters everywhere and the man from the betting shop steps into the street - "guess what! England just won the World Cup & The Ashes & The Grand National and here's the best bit - Boris put a bet on it for everyone! you're all MILLIONAIRES!!!"

the red arrows fly overhead dropping fish and chips as i walk into the corner shop, get my morning paper and go to the counter. "how much please?" i say to the asian lad there. "1 pence, everything in the whole shop now costs just 1p!" he laughs, "leave it on the counter, i'm off back to ****stan - we all are!"

and he's right! outside in the streets jolly old nigel farage is leading a huge crowd of happy foreigners - turks, poles, romanians, syrians - there's even a few English people with heavy suntans mixed up in there! nigel's playing Rule Britannia on a long pipe, rather like the pipe that takes the gas into your oven, and they're all following and smiling and talking foreign, bless them!

just then boris flies overhead in a concorde made of Bank of England gold - "don't worry!" he laughs "I've cut out all the bits the French made!" and with that he crashes into the ground at 1200 miles an hour, along with the economy, the country and all the dozy nostalgic foreigner-fearing ****wits who fell for his bullshit.

grow up. wake up.

IN

and a quick repost from bencooper a few pages back
https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-brexit-the-conclusion-c1f56ba4cb70#.nhk7sssia
Fact Checking the campaign, forget the personalities see who's words are based on fact or fiction.

Trust me there are no spoilers/twists

@DrJ

playing Rule Britannia on a long pipe, rather like the pipe that takes the gas into your oven, and they're all following and smiling and talking foreign, bless them!

If that's what you class as amusing. You have a sick mind. Seek help.

Let's not give these [s]taunt[/s] twunt any more platform - the BBC has excelled itself in promoting UKIP this EUref and last GE. They need to be exposed as the nasty little minority that they are

Michael Frost, who is a leading Ukip politician in Bristol and former councillor for the party, made the comments in a group email thread sent to local councillors, The Bristol Post reports. Local resident and family centre worker Ahmedhakim Jahad emailed the politicians to mark Ramadan, quoting a passage of the Koran which reads: “Blessed is the month of Ramadan. It is the month of prayer and guidance, discipline and tolerance, repentance and charity.”

In response, Mr Frost reportedly wrote back: “Tell this to all the innocent people you and your type have murdered. Shame on you and the bastard scum who kill in the name of Islam.”

From [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-politician-tells-muslim-man-his-sort-cant-be-trusted-after-he-wished-him-a-happy-ramadan-a7095471.html ]Indy link[/url]

ETA - damn spellchecker - doesn't know what a TWUNT is

Written by a friend of my Sister in Law.....

Just popping back in to say I really liked that poem.

Happy voting all. Whatever side you vote for, don't let hate win.

The perfect analogy:

[img] [/img]

😀

Chewkw, wheel2wheel, flanagaj - thank you for helping me make up my mind. The quality of your arguments really shine through.

Just stuck my Remain vote in the ballot box.

Chewkw, wheel2wheel, flanagaj - thank you for helping me make up my mind. The quality of your arguments really shine through.
Just stuck my Remain vote in the ballot box.

Well done igm. Best of luck with your decision.

And that's it, done, my vote is cast.

All through this I've remained an IN Europe supporter, I have many reasons many considered educated reasons.

Phew.

Whilst all this turmoil continues, the speculation and now to come the fallout and recriminations, I wish you all the best on your own casting vote.

Just catching up on the nonsense after a day or so away. Had to pull this one up.

The TUC did a deal with them. Don't touch checkoff, which would have had very serious financial repercussions for the trade unions -

That's factually incorrect. The removal of checkoff would have had a financial impact but not a significant one. So much so my Union is continuing with the move to direct debit.

I saw a Brexit politician named Dominic Raab on the tellybox last night urging "us" to "march on to our destiny".

What a dick.

As a (real 3 dimensional) friend over on the allegedly rubbish Facebook commented, anything involving marching always ends in something sinister.

I hate the FTSE with a passion.

How can you hate a stock market index?!?

Ernie you are correct again - JMcD as Shadow Chancellor, WTF indeed. An astute observation of current UK politics.

Any now we will have the amusing/appalling Tory attempts at kiss and make up. Perhaps May was the only one to come out with some smidgen of credit, as she largely kept her trap shut. Labour were a shambles - albeit quietly torn rather than nakedly split like the Tories - and the LDs largely AWOL. Good job this isn't an important issue.

The sad, sad world of post-truth politics but we get what we deserve. At least Farrage was fully exposed for what he is, so some positives.

Hard to see any politicians emerging with any credit - perhaps Sturgeon (cough, splutter) and Davison?

What topic for the next marathon thread? Celebrity Masterchef ?!?

Labour were a shambles - albeit quietly torn rather than nakedly split like the Tories - and the LDs largely AWOL

What topic for the next marathon thread?

for it is a wee bit Toiry/RW biased so i Have heard- focussed on the Tories at all costs and this harmed the others. I suspect they have been as busy just not as followed by the press

Or maybe many thought it was a good time to shut up and let others self destruct in public. Nothing better than letting your opponents repeatedly apply foot to mouth, especially when anyone who got close seemed to get covered in the foul smell
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

certainly that was also a factor
Fair point

Mike, that seemed to be JCs strategy - and looked to be working at first. But he also misjudged the fact that his supporters - remember all those real people outside the Labour elite- were looking for leadership not a reluctant (absentee?) landlord.

Still his discomfort will be short lived compared to the Tories. They are an odd bunch when it comes to Europe. Is it like some extreme fetish where (apparently 😉 ) the high makes the chance of suicide worth risking?

Anyway, good job that none of this is important, eh?

Well I've made my mark.

I've wavered in each direction over the last 4 months.

I even seriously considered spoiling my ballot on the walk in to the village this morning.

How did it come to this? The wrong question, at the wrong time in the wrong context.

The only positive I've been able to take away from this experience is that I am now aware that there is a thing called a "Shaw's ballot compactor" - a paddle for stuffing recalcitrant bits of paper in a box slot.

It's pissing down with rain.
At this moment I could jack it all in and get a job somewhere in the sunshine.
Nowhere in the world with sunshine will let me work except for Europe.
Imagine being imprisoned on this island in the pissing ****ing rain forever.

teamhurtmore - Member

Ernie you are correct again

It's a habit of mine.

A bit like yours of saying [i]"good job that none of this is important"[/i]

Lifer - Member

I had unblocked you Chewkw because I felt bad. But your frantic screaming into the void is so very tiresome.

[img] [/img]

There's a block function?!

Please provide further information.

A Labour MP was quoted anonymously on Newsnight saying they weren't that keen on getting out their vote because they thought they would vote leave. Some Labour supporters are very worried that they are on the wrong side of their voters and fear it could have the equivalent impact that it did in Scotland.

That factcheck posted by Ben Cooper is rubbish - first rule of fact checking - get your facts right.

Can someone summarise the last 167 pages, I lost track. What's the general opinion?

Please provide further information.

I think JY linked to it on the previous page. Only works for Chrome AFAIK.

Stoner - Member

Well I've made my mark.

I've wavered in each direction over the last 4 months.

I'm taking that you no longer hold Ken Clarke in the same esteem that you once did?

Possibly stupid question but can one take one's feral toddler into the polling station while one votes?

All i can say is, use the force troops, go with your gut. Don't vote on fear, either way.

Who's to say it hasn't been ol' Hush Puppies bringing me back to the remain side each time my confidence has wavered?

There's a block function?!

Please provide further information.

Junkyard -

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GB

allows you to block users of your choice

Who's to say it hasn't been ol' Hush Puppies bringing me back to the remain side each time my confidence has wavered?

It's this what dunnit, innit?

[img] [/img]

What true blue Tory wouldn't want that ? 😉

deadlydarcy - Member - Block User - Quote
Please provide further information.
I think JY linked to it on the previous page. Only works for Chrome AFAIK.

Thank the holy lord for that. 😀

A forum cleansed of its pebbledashing of ideological and verbal diarrhoea.

Shame I never discovered it until page 167 of the thread.

Possibly stupid question but can one take one's feral toddler into the polling station while one votes?

You mean page 4 surely?

I have been sat on the fence for a long while. In my work I can see both the advantages and disadvantages of being in the EU. A few things have helped me to decide on which way I will vote.

This written about Port Talbot

Even when we want to change tack on tariffs, we can’t – because we have given up control.

Contrast the US, where – wham – they have applied 266 per cent tariffs on dumped Chinese steel. Contrast China itself, which – to add insult to injury – has just slapped 46 per cent duties on steel from Port Talbot. Britain can do nothing to mimic these steps, because we have given up control.

Exactly the same point can be made about energy costs. It is true that much of the burden of these high UK energy bills is self-imposed. There is a sense in which Miliband’s bonkers plan has succeeded. We have certainly cut our CO2 emissions – but only by applying such crippling levies to UK industry that much of this manufacturing has simply gone elsewhere – along with the CO2 production. We may feel virtuous about cutting our CO2, but it is unlikely that the planet notices the difference.

The Conservative Government is sensibly trying to make amends for Miliband’s folly, and to cut the costs of energy for industry – but at every turn we have the problem of the EU, and the objections of Brussels to anything that looks like state aids. Even when we are trying to address our home-grown mistakes, even when we are simply trying to bring down our energy costs so that they are more in line with the rest of the EU, we face the same difficulty: we no longer call the shots, even when thousands of jobs are at stake.

The next article from MSF relates to the immigrants that have arrived in Greece and it's Islands.

[url= http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/refugees-greece-we-did-not-expect-live-life-europe ]"In our projects all over Greece we are witnessing the consequences of inhumane policies that have left thousands of people stranded and forgotten without access to basic services or information," says Stefano Argenziano, operations coordinator for MSF’s migration projects. "European states and authorities have decided to make deterrence their only priority and give up on providing protection and assistance to these people—despite their moral and legal responsibility to do so."[/url]

The final question that is making the rounds, would you like to join the EU now?

I wouldn't. The EU has become a slow lumbering beast incapable of responding with any pace to prevent human suffering. Vanity projects don't seem to have this slow speed.
Threats of punishing tariffs if the UK leaves the EU is only another example of the protection of the institute and not the people. Such measures not only hurt the UK but also those in the EU who will still trade with us. That hurt relates to jobs loses on both sides. These measures only benefit the EU council and politicians for their own survival, not the businesses or the public who end up worse off as a result.

the file blocker was done by folk from this parish - Aracer did some as well so he will know who is responsible

I only use it I never made it

Its bliss

The EU has become a slow lumbering beast incapable of responding with any pace to prevent human suffering

I think its a bit harsh to blame the EU - it was the member countries who did not stick to INTERNATIONAL LAW regarding how to treat refugees. Blaming the EU for this is odd

Threats of punishing tariffs if the UK leaves the EU is only another example of the protection of the institute and not the people.

Such measures not only hurt the UK but also those in the EU who will still trade with us.

The EU is a free trade area. you cannot leave the free trade area, abdicate all responsibilities of membership and then think that you can still have unrestricted access to said trade area. Saying this is a threat is overly emotive language usage that shows the simplistic level at which your argument is operating

Craigxxl - so you wanted tariffs placed on Chinese steel. Did you contact your EU MP to ask them why they hadn't done it? I wonder if the Chinese demanded it in return for something else..?

Politics is a complicated game.

Did you contact your EU MP to ask them why they hadn't done it?

Which one? Does the European Parliament have the power to effect change in respect of trade policy?

The Commission negotiates with the trading partner on behalf of the EU. It does this, working closely with the Member States in the Council and keeping the European Parliament fully informed.

The Commission must request an authorisation to negotiate a trade agreement with a trading partner from the Council, which sets out the general objectives to be achieved.

While the negotiations are going on the Commission reports regularly to Council and the European Parliament.

Once the Commission has completed the negotiations, it presents the deal to the Council and the European Parliament. They are the ones to formally agree the outcome and prepare the way for signature and ratification of the deal with the trading partner.

The trade agreement enters into force once it is fully ratified but parts of the agreement can be provisionally applied if the Member States agree to do so.

[b]How EU trade policy is made[/b]

Sometimes the legislation setting out trade rules need to be updated or adjusted or on other occasions the legislation asks the Commission to implement certain aspects.

The European Parliament decides jointly with the Council on the framework of EU trade policy – through the ordinary legislative procedure.

While the Commission maintains the right of initiative, for its proposals to be formally adopted, agreement has to be reached between the co-legislators.

International agreements are adopted by the Council, after the Parliament has given its consent

The EU is a free trade area. you cannot leave the free trade area, abdicate all responsibilities of membership and then think that you can still have unrestricted access to said trade area. Saying this is a threat is overly emotive language usage that shows the simplistic level at which your argument is operating

It was Angela Merkal who said there "won't be a good deal" if the UK leaves the EU also echoed by the Remain campaign that we will have punishing trade tariffs.
The UK wouldn't be looking for unrestricted access to said trade area but not tariffs levied so high as a punishment for leaving the EU either just fair ones. Markus Kerber warned of the stupidity of putting up such barriers as he knows like other sensible business people that you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

The British government blocked the introduction of increased tariffs on Chinese steel, EU got the blame but its our politicians that decided pissing off the Chinese wasn't worth a few votes in Wales/The North.

Its been very easy to blame the EU for everything, however at some point people are going to have to MTFU and accept that we elected a government that was pro-cuts and pro business; and we are simply getting what we voted for, and blaming Romanians/Non-white people whilst convenient isn't actually very fair.

While the Commission maintains the right of initiative, for its proposals to be formally adopted, agreement has to be reached between the co-legislators.

So initiative, which is key, lies with the Commission not the Parliament.