3.9% Deal 9.3% No Deal.
Did they just reverse the numbers?
Not that forecasts are ever correct.
One could say
no governments can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours.
The fact we have poverty and the need for food banks is because people are only looking after themselves and not also their neighbours.
although I am not sure the person who spoke those words was famed for helping people.
Five Live were talking to leading political journalists after PMQ's and it turns out Danny Dyer's assessment was absolutely right - and not just about Cameron being a *! Nobody has got a *ing clue whats going to happen next.
I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime. We've always had a large degree of political stability. You may not have liked it, but you always knew where you were. Now... who ****ing knows? Nobody apparently.
I wish we could go back to politics being dull again 🙁
Death throws of a stagnant country that is becoming less relevant with each passing year Binners, this has been a long time coming. Maybe Brits will wake up and lose their entitled sense of exceptionalism after this, who knows?
But isn’t that the point? Many places are more shit..
Indeed they are. Two points though.
1. That is no excuse for wanting to make things more shit by leaving the EU.
2. Wealth distribution within Britain does not compare well with other European and Scandinavian countries. That could be improved should the government be interested.
Death throws of a stagnant country that is becoming less relevant with each passing year Binners, this has been a long time coming. Maybe Brits will wake up and lose their entitled sense of exceptionalism after this, who knows?
Never really understood why some seem so desperate for us to be a great power on the world stage. I mean I wouldn’t knock it, but compared to what it’s like to live here it’s pretty meaningless.
I wonder when the ECJ will hand down its A50 ruling. (And which way it will go, with both the UK Gov and EU arguing against for different reasons.)
Never really understood why some seem so desperate for us to be a great power on the world stage.
Whats even more baffling is the paradox of the 'Global Britain' rhetoric and the actual reality of retreating into a backward-gazing parochial insularity
I wonder when the ECJ will hand down its A50 ruling. (And which way it will go, with both the UK Gov and EU arguing against for different reasons.)
Advocate Generals Opinion on 4th December.
Full ECJ ruling likely around 9th December.
Never really understood why some seem so desperate for us to be a great power on the world stage.
Nor me, but I guess people are clinging to the past? I look to Scandinavian countries and always feel they seem satisfied to just get on with their own lives in their own country without having to interfere in everyone else's or pretend they have a say in things globally
Ah., so before the Westminster vote. ECJ ruling will be a game changer; if 'yes' then may embolden MPs to vote down May's deal. If 'no' then MPs likely to bottle it and vote it through.
ROFL. Which MPs are voting for it again? A large number have made unequivocal public statements. The question is whether the margin of defeat is so great that she has to resign, and whether she finds a way of avoiding the vote if this seems likely to happen.
These MP's that are saying they'll definitely going to vote against it? These the same ones who all said they'd put their letters in to the 1922 committee to trigger a vote of no confidence, yeah?
Theres an awful lot of posturing going on by a bunch of windbags who are clearly lying and won't actually put there money where their mouth is. Ask Rees Mogg 😀
Never really understood why some seem so desperate for us to be a great power on the world stage.
The simple answer to this is that many people are thick and don't understand the difference between politics and economics and their own everyday experiences. They want their football team to be top of the league, to earn more than the next person at work, to have a better car than their neighbour. They apply the same instinctive competitive logic to the country they live in.
For instance one of my work colleagues is obsessed about the concept of Manchester being the UK's 'second city', on pretty much any metric. He gets offended and argumentative if I suggest Leeds might have a higher population, and takes great pride that outside London Manchester has more and higher skycrapers than other UK cities. It has no actual bearing on his life yet it's still important to him. It's quite bizarre.
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are saying they’ll definitely going to vote against it? These the same ones who all said they’d put their letters in to the 1922 committee to trigger a vote of no confidence, yeah?
Theres an awful lot of posturing going on by a bunch of windbags who are clearly lying and won’t actually put there money where their mouth is. Ask Rees Mogg
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agreed they will abstain at best
Ive got a sneaking suspicion Mays deal might well pass & she'll be PM for the next decade!
Lying in private to grease-blob (perhaps with the deliberate goal of humiliating him) is very different to making public statement and going back on it.
Don't forget May doesn't even have a majority to start with, and all those cabinet ministers hardly resigned in order to support her from the back benches. As for Labour, they won't miss this last chance to take down May irrespective of their views on brexit. If they vote for this or even abstain they have rendered themselves absolutely irrelevant (which arguably they've already been doing but up to now they've had the excuse of keeping their powder dry).
agreed they will abstain at best
Ive got a sneaking suspicion Mays deal might well pass & she’ll be PM for the next decade!
For the deal to pass (assuming no DUP suuport) all the Tories need to vote for it. May doesn't have a parliamentary majority. So given the likelyhood of one or two Labour rebels cancelling out the absence of the DUP, May still needs every Tory to vote for it.
The Tory whips are going to be heavily leaning on MP's to back it as the only game in town other than total chaos. Chaos which their constituents will never forgive. There will be plenty on the labour benches, who've no love for the 'leadership' (such as it is) that will be coming to the same conclusion. I think we could well be looking at a fairly significant labour rebellion on this.
I have no doubt it will pass . Too much at risk.
Nor me, but I guess people are clinging to the past?
Of course they are. Xenophobes aside, this entire debacle was born to a large extent from people with a rose-tinted halcyon memory of their past which never really existed.
Living on a street where everyone knew each other (because they were all nosy bastards and not scared of talking to someone with a tan, where you literally couldn't take a shit without everyone knowing because you'd to walk across your yard to do it). Days where you could go out and leave your door unlocked (because no-one had **** all worth stealing). Back when we didn't have poncy HIV, we had proper man's diseases like rickets and polio. When Britain was a world power (because we'd spent decades invading developing countries and slaughtering anyone who disagreed with us). Before political correctness (because we like to make jokes about Paddies, Nig-Nogs and poofters). When we'd to work hard for what we had (because we'd just been bombed back to the stone age, unlike these precious, privileged bloody Millennials who have it easy because they don't have to worry about luxuries like food).
They sit there, in their quarter of a million pound house that they paid <£20K for back in 1980, with their savings and their fat pensions and their summer holiday home in Costa Del Little England, ruing how shit their life is now. Meanwhile the current generation are leaving education with thirty grand plus worth of debt and looking at probably never getting on the property ladder, and the Boomers' parting legacy before they shuffle off this mortal coil is to see how badly they can **** up the country even further for everyone else.
The parting two fingers from the gilded generation
I don't see it Binners - I would be surprised if there is a dozen. On the labour side Hoey has said she will not vote for it so I doubt a big rebellion - maybe some abstentions? Its an opportunity to take the government down that every right thinkng labouorite will take.
There are 80 odd declared tory rebels - even half of them is enough
Well said cougar.
Even 10 of them is enough, in fact she would struggle to get it through if every single tory voted for her.
The guardian did a head count on all the likely votes and came up with about 410 vs 230. That's making some fairly obvious assumptions about party loyalty on both sides from those who have not clearly stated their intentions. There are certainly quite a lot of back-bench sheeple on both sides who will do what they are told, but like I said, the tories start off from a minority and are only going downhill from there.
Cougar, have you met my parents and father-in-law?
and the Boomer’s parting legacy before they shuffle off this mortal coil is to see how badly they can **** up the country even further for everyone else.
All valid points, but as I have said before, the boomers are only doing what they've always done, which is exercise their democratic rights and sometimes when that doesn't work, get out on the streets. If the young are really that incensed then the answer is obvious, and I'm not talking about filling in a petition on the bloody internet or sharing meme's on facebook.
TJ. Its not Hoey and Frank Field that Corbyn needs to worry about. Personally he probably shares their opinion and wishes he could vote like they have so far. In fact I bet he longs for th days of being a backbench PITA
But the labour MPs who aren't Corbynites/loons, who lest we forget are the overwhelmingly the majority of the party, may well break ranks and vote this though if the alternative is chaos.
Everyone is being very very quiet in the party at the moment. Unlike the Tories, nobody is saying a word about how they plan to vote.
One things for sure. This isn't going to play out along party lines
Its not Hoey and Frank Field that Corbyn needs to worry about.
I'm not convinced. The corbyn haters are pro-remain and mostly pro-second referendum. They're not going to get either of those by voting through this deal. Why would they suddenly turn into soft-leavers? Yes they may be worried about the chaos and potential for a no-deal brexit but I think all but the most unhinged will recognise that this is a remote possibility for obvious reasons. I'm sure some will take the opportunity to once again have a go at Corbyn but if that's the case they'll rightfully be seen as sell-outs willing to support a lame duck tory government, and they'll be inviting deselection.
Everyone is being very very quiet in the party at the moment. Unlike the Tories, nobody is saying a word about how they plan to vote.
Lots of Labour MPs have said exactly how they'll vote. A few have come down in favour, but most have come down against.
binners, Corbyn has said he'll whip against it, Starmer is fully agreed. Despite their brexit differences all of labour knows this is their one chance to bring down the govt. There's about one loony who will break the whip, also one libdem amazing as that sounds. But that's nowhere near enough to matter.
All valid points, but as I have said before, the boomers are only doing what they’ve always done, which is exercise their democratic rights and sometimes when that doesn’t work, get out on the streets. If the young are really that incensed then the answer is obvious, and I’m not talking about filling in a petition on the bloody internet or sharing meme’s on facebook.
I don't think it was all the boomers who made up the 700,000 who marched in the people's march
If the young are really that incensed then the answer is obvious,
Go on then what is the obvious answer?
I don’t think it was all the boomers who made up the 700,000 who marched in the people’s march
Indeed, that was a good start, but one off organised marches never changed anything. Any and all means need to be used from civil unrest, marches, picketing, letter/petition campaigns, direct action, joining political parties and changing them from within, and generally just being a constant, noisy and very visible pain in the arse to anyone who supports brexit. Instead what do we have? Tony bloody Blair and Chukka Umunna, and an upper middle class London solicitor who's always on Question Time.
Any and all means need to be used from civil unrest, marches, picketing, letter/petition campaigns, direct action, joining political parties and changing them from within, and generally just being a constant, noisy and very visible pain in the arse to anyone who supports brexit. Instead what do we have?
And how does that stop people being at the mercy of the loony right of the tory party?
How did it work out for the miners?
Instead nothing has been done and they and us are screwed .
Have we done the Your Comments section on the "Brexit will make UK worse off, government forecasts warn" BBC article yet?
Some right stormers in there.
Meanwhile, who needs drinking water?
Some right stormers in there.
It's just depressing. Eg,
Exactly, now have real reservations about Brexit but would I vote leave again ?
Absolutely.
Why ?
Because I can.
I mean, where do you begin debating with that level of belligerently stupid?
Kind of sad that no deal brexit won't happen now, I would have liked to have seen some of my fellow countrymen experience a real third world style water shortage.
Ever since the telegraph shut down their comments the BBC HYS has been inundated with a tsunami of gammon
a tsunami of gammon
The steaks are high?
Amusingly the Highest Rated and Lowest Rate comment is the same one. This one:
"I don't want to be worse off. This was never presented by either side during the referendum. Can we have a second referendum please?"
To be honest I'd rate them down. "never presented"? Really??
They sit there, in their quarter of a million pound house that they paid <£20K for back in 1980, with their savings and their fat pensions and their summer holiday home in Costa Del Little England, ruing how shit their life is now. Meanwhile the current generation are leaving education with thirty grand plus worth of debt and looking at probably never getting on the property ladder, and the Boomers’ parting legacy before they shuffle off this mortal coil is to see how badly they can **** up the country even further for everyone else.
Don't forget their triple lock pensions. They voted for something that should the economy tank will effect them not one jot. Any self respecting brexiteer pensioner should have volunteered to forgo their triple lock and instead tie their increases (or indeed decreases) to the money in the pockets of 18-25 year olds.
Have we done the Your Comments section on the “Brexit will make UK worse off, government forecasts warn” BBC article yet?
I'm particularly enjoying the 'but we weren't told the economy was going to be worse off after brexit' comments. Actually you were, you were just so intoxicated by the thought of putting all the brown people in boats and pushing them out to sea you didn't hear it.
Mark Carney and the BOE boys tearing brexit a new arsehole on BBC news.... live