In any case, the notion that we could just refuse to pay it is a pipe dream. Aside from the fact that we could be taken to court for failure to pay,
No court that could enforce the debt, the fundamental of any sovereign lending is that ultimately if they don't want to pay it they can renege, of course there are ramifications but in this case they are far more limited than your typical sovereign default.
No court that could enforce the debt
Well was the debt Argentina had not “sovereign debt? That was bought by a vulture fund and made a mess of them...
obviously and payments to the EU we will make will be a good faith to honour previous commitments and maintain the good working relationship. We could have cancelled all the old war debts to the USA if there were no ramifications
May campaigning around the country trying to garner support for her Brexit and the BBC news lead story is suddenly about migrants?
Hmmmnnn....
Cornholio - we have a collapsing health service, collapsing police service, rising inequality, rising poverty, rising homelessness, rampant runaway corporate greed. We waste billions on very expensive privatised services where nationalised ones are cheaper.
Labour have a few small steps planned to address some of this - all stuff that is mainstream in the rest of europe. You really think cold hungry children is OK? You really think that some of the most expensive services in europe is OK> You really think that allowing the bosses to take all the money out of business is OK, pay next to know tax on this is OK. that anyone losing their job this week will receive no benefits until the new year is OK?
Our benefit levels are so low as to be impossible to live on yet we have some of the lowest taxation in europe?
Hammond just admitted on the BBC that on a purely economic basis remaining in the EU is the best option.
Im not sure I’ve seen that from him before?
Reporting today on the financial impact of No deal, May deal and Remaining.
Let’ s use our psychic powers to predict the findings.
all stuff that is mainstream in the rest of europe.
Yet somehow in the UK our hands our tied by the EU rules to fix any of this? I would like to see everything work better but JCs vision that we can only do this outside of the EU concerns me. Much like the idea that we can only control immigration when outside of the EU...
we really don’t have it bad in the UK. It really should be better but for the wastage and piss poor management both from public and private sides. It is a much nicer place to be than many others I have lived in.
Good old brexit broadcasting corporation desperately trying to emphasise that May's deal is "better" than no deal without managing to mention that both are substantially worse than the status quo.
.
we really don’t have it bad in the UK
And by "we', you are actually meaning "I"
They literally just had Hammond in who said the remain was better for the economy.
I think anyone who doesn't let racism or a fear of immigration cloud their judgement has always known that but good to see people slowly making it a bit more public.
I hope May is enjoying her fairwell tour.
All this people greeting and calling for televised debates, when there isn't a public vote, won't make people forget that when public votes do actually happen she hides away… only has stage managed meetings with Conservative members in secret locations… sends Amber Rudd to meet the cameras for her… appears on the One Show instead of any programmes where political questioning might occur… she's an unaccountable submarine suddenly pretending to be a proper PM in the hope that her MPs fall for it… she knows she'll never face a public vote as PM ever again. She's already said she'll resign if parliament push for a referendum, and there's no chance her MPs and members will let her lead them into another general election.
Hold on, is May visiting a factory in Glasgow to sell her Brexit deal?
I wonder if they’ve vetted who she’ll be speaking too?
Hammond just admitted on the BBC that on a purely economic basis remaining in the EU is the best option.
Im not sure I’ve seen that from him before?
Phillip Hammond is despised in the party because he's the only member of the cabinet who's actually living in the real world, and not some flag-waving 1950's colonial fantasy
Much like Kier Starmer in the labour shadow cabinet (such as it is). The only voice of sanity in a world of delusional idiots
Its coming to something when you look at the two main party's and there are only two individuals out of the lot of them who seem to be in contact with reality
I wonder if they’ve vetted who she’ll be speaking too?
Of course. And restricted the journalists too. No one from The National (again).
And by “we’, you are actually meaning “I”
I currently live in Siberia, the Uk is a hell of a lot better than here. When I was earning min wage in UK it was still a nicer place than when I was earning much more in the USA. No one is afraid to go to a doctor because of cost. Our public hospitals are much better than the ones I used in Italy.....
it is by no means perfect and we should always be trying to make it better but even with all the austerity there are still first world countries with crapper services. To say everything is broken and we are living worse than everyone else is just wallowing in self pity for no good reason and disrespects the people who work hard providing these services.
The sad thing is Brexit IMO will start the sell off and progression to a US style system for health, benefits and services which is a very bad thing.
The sad thing is Brexit IMO will start the sell off and progression to a US style system for health, benefits and services which is a very bad thing.
That is exactly what the brexiteers have wanted all along. Freeing themselves of the shackles of EU legislation will enable them to turn us into an uber-free-market fantasy island with a race to the bottom. Bye bye NHS. Bye bye welfare state. Hello chlorinated chicken and hormone injected beef. Hence the lust for a no deal Brexit. The resulting chaos will provide the perfect opportunity to get that ball rolling.
I bet they really can't believe their luck that they not only successfully conned the proles into voting for it, but were then faced with a Labour party who were quite happy to sit there with their thumbs up their arses andlet them get on with it, totally unopposed
Agreed, same thing happening in France at the moment. Protesters saying life is too expensive but it is 100 times better than 99 % of the rest of the world .
UK is the same ,it might not be perfect but it is pretty good.
'Lord' Nigel Lawson is on Five Live advocating a no deal Brexit and loftily pontificating on what is best for the UK
... from his home in France
Protesters saying life is too expensive but it is 100 times better than 99 % of the rest of the world .
Maybe those protestors want a system where wealth is redistributed more equally globally instead of being hoarded by a tiny few?
… from his home in France
Did the presenter take him to task on this, or just try to be 'balanced' by ignoring it?
would staying in the EU be Humiliating, this is what polling has come to in this country!
Another possible glimmer of hope.
Saying it is not shit because other things are more shit is missing the point...
would staying in the EU be Humiliating, this is what polling has come to in this country!
I do love a good loaded question.
Truth is, it would be utterly humiliating. But even that is better than the other two options.
Well was the debt Argentina had not “sovereign debt? That was bought by a vulture fund and made a mess of them…
But not by enforcing the debt, they had nuisance value because, in broad brush terms, they managed to get an injunction stopping Argentina from paying its interest on their rescheduled debt unless they were paid. They could therefore bring the debt restructuring effort crashing down, so they were paid off.
What we are looking at in this case is very different because it would be a dispute between two parties and therefore is unlikely to have the same sort of domino effect.
& the actual survey behind the mail headline...
https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1067722729175113728
I did check and hence the edit 😀
so I should have said "is this what reporting polls has come too!" 😉
… from his home in France
Did the presenter take him to task on this, or just try to be ‘balanced’ by ignoring it?
She did pick him up on it that. She also pointed out that most people wouldn't appreciate being told that a 'short term financial impact' was worth it in the long run, by a multi-millionaire from his home in another country.
What a ****!
I did check and hence the edit
I didn't see that when I posted my twitter comment! Soz.
& yeah it's shitty journalism
I wouldn’t feel humiliated so don’t worry about it.
I would feel quite proud that the country can learn and accept mistakes.
the trouble for May is that a 2nd ref would be good for getting the country out of a hole but not the tory party.... they are determined to drag the rest of us down with them.
Saying it is not shit because other things are more shit is missing the point…
But isn’t that the point? Many places are more shit..We have free schools, healthcare, are relatively safe, not very corrupt, you don’t need to fear the police or the government
Things can always be better but if the UK is such a hole why don’t more people leave?
It is likely the paradises we seek are in Europe, North America or Aus/NZ and those are relatively accessible. In fact most of the world is quite accessible to UK citizens. If someone can get from sub Saharan Africa to the UK we can get on a ferry or a plane.
To complain that we should have everything we want and that if we just do some very simple things but someone is stopping us is the type of thing that created this whole mess. Trouble is the people stopping us are the voters and the politicians we elect. we only have ourselves to blame for our greed and failures. It’s not even that we don’t demand competence from our elected representatives we don’t even aak for it or expect it.
The trouble for Mrs May is that there is literally nothing she can offer the Brexit nutters in her party. But its kind of a moot point anyway as without the support of the DUP even if all the Tories back her deal ( and we are very far away from that) it won't get through parliament.
There are 3 ways out of this mess. In order of probability i would say they are:
1. Parliament coalesces around a softer Brexit (Norway +-/*) and votes it through. The EU will almost certainly agree to a softer Brexit
2. No Deal - remember parliament doesn't have to vote for this its simply a natural consequence of not getting a deal ratified by the end of March
3. 2nd Referendum
It is likely the paradises we seek are in Europe, North America or Aus/NZ and those are relatively accessible. In fact most of the world is quite accessible to UK citizens. If someone can get from sub Saharan Africa to the UK we can get on a ferry or a plane.
Not at all true, Europe is obviously relatively easy now, but Brexit will end that. Points based migration excludes the majority of people. I have a good job, but I cannot emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia or NZ, because my qualifications aren't sufficient to get me enough points.
You may be sitting pretty and it maybe an option for you, but that does not mean that everyone is in the same situation.
Further survey results are here:
https://www.survation.com/are-the-public-warmer-on-the-prime-ministers-brexit-deal-than-mps/
Which are a bit closer to what the DM is spinning.
Things can always be better but if the UK is such a hole why don’t more people leave?
Okay, give up. You REALLY don't get it.
Things can always be better..
Thiiiiiiings... They can only get... they can only get...
Better....... ?
The point I am trying to make is that when your location is really crap you move. The people getting on boats to cross the Med to Europe are not worried about a points based immigration system neither are the people jumping the border to the US. The families in China or India pooling all their cash to send one kid to the USA or another western country get a degree and visas for chain migration have a long term plan to get to somewhere else.
The fact that we worry about maintaining our (imo quite high) standard of life and getting points for visas rather than becoming illegals says that where we are is not so terrible.
There is another possibility which is that the MPs do their ****ing job. Unlikely I know.
The fact that we worry about maintaining our (imo quite high) standard of life and getting points for visas rather than becoming illegals says that where we are is not so terrible.
Very true but its my key priority at the moment, you can call that selfish but I see it as stopping self harm. There are people who will be seriously hurt in the process and it's important to protect them.
Okay, give up. You REALLY don’t get it.
No I don’t.
People want better services but aren’t prepared to pay more tax for it. They would rather rich people or large companies take the burden for this
while this is admirable we don’t vote in any politicians who actually do this.
we don’t demand better from our leaders and are lead by sound bites or someone who looks good in a suit rather than anyone with any competence. We just vote in the same shits time and again
we don’t hold government or parliament accountable for pissing away money or ruining education/nhs/public services
we are lucky enough to have good links with many countries that allow us to study or to go on working holidays.
Wtf happened? When did we go from Britain rules the world and we can go anywhere and do anything we want to it’s a bit shit here but I don’t have the points to leave? When did we acquiesce to this is our lot and we can’t do anything?
Imo the uk is a pretty good place overall
The point I am trying to make is that when your location is really crap you move.
So we need to make it even more crappy for the less privileged to the point they feel their only option is to get on a dinghy and cross the channel or should we be looking to improve things for them? We could of course just shout "you have never had it better" as they on are their way to the food bank
The families in China or India pooling all their cash to send one kid to the USA or another western country get a degree and visas for chain migration have a long term plan to get to somewhere else.
Actually - maybe it's the case with Indians. But Chinese parents send their children abroad not to exploit visa systems like you are insinuating, but to give them a good education and expose them to a different way of doing things. The top Chinese Universities are ridiculously hard to get into because of the amount of competition and the fact that the children of political elites get favored, a western education is viewed as being better than going to one of their middling establishments. China isn't poor and they don't hate their country, most of them are fervently patriotic and would rather work in China. A minority of them send their kids abroad and/or move money abroad because they feel politically exposed due to either actual or alleged criminality on their part - usually corruption, embezzlement etc.
Britain is the backwards shithole now, not China - ever been to Chengdu? It makes London feel decrepit.
My brothers wifes family are hardened ethnic Tibetans, they dislike Britain and much prefer living in China. Personally, I think that says it all.