😯 Run for the hills!Push come to shove I would put Sturgeon in charge
You said that whatyadoinsucka only sees what s/he wants to see. I'm saying you're doing that too.
Don't let the racists win, vote remain
Funny. All the Americans, Australians and South Africans just apply, interview then turn up and start working. I would say it's because they are white, just to keep the dullards happy. But the Syrians, Ghanaians, Nigerians, Ethiopians and Mexican i work with aren't.......
They are all articulate (usually in 3 or 4 languages, bastards) qualified and experienced though.
I would be silly to use one as example. Anyway, it's a common knowledge amongst non-EU people. Also there were companies who wanted to hire them but the bureaucrats said no because they were from non-EU and the job should be advertised in all over EU ... I mean ... c'mon why not advertised all over the world?Drac - Moderator
So you have an example of one one employer.No, they don't coz they were told that their chance of getting the jobs were slim to none. Straight to their face. Yes, they can apply like anyone else.
Funny. All the Americans, Australians and South Africans just apply, interview then turn up and start working.
Not sure if serious, but that won't be true. There is no open door to those countries afaik. They all need a way in, you can't just get off a plane and work.
I see ... I see what you mean. Might be very different I kid you not but that will detract from this thread.molgrips - Member
You said that whatyadoinsucka only sees what s/he wants to see. I'm saying you're doing that too.
The main barrier we have and we recruit from all over the world is arranging the work visa for non EU employees
The EU saves us money and red tape compared to dealing with everyone else
kimbers - MemberDon't let the racists win, vote remain
Reverse dog whistle politics.......brilliant.
I love the way some on the soft left agree with the right-wing bigots and, like them, choose to turn the whole EU debate into one about race.
kimbers - Member
The main barrier we have and we recruit from all over the world is arranging the [b]work visa[/b] for non EU employees
The [b]EU [/b]saves us money and [b]red tape[/b] compared to dealing with everyone else
This is the best example ^^^ ...
I rest my case. 😆
Thatcher said we were a nation of shopkeepers,
I think you're a bit confused there. Thatcher's dad WAS a shopkeeper. Napoleon is attributed with that quote (probably erroneously) and it probably originates with Adam Smith.
Have we done this yet? George Soros says a Leave vote would cause a big devaluation of the Pound:
I wonder if I should start buying Euros now...
I think you're a bit confused there. Thatcher's dad WAS a shopkeeper. Napoleon is attributed with that quote (probably erroneously) and it probably originates with Adam Smith.
More Brexit lies. 😉
Thatcher's dad WAS a shopkeeper.
Some geezer down my local who knows about this sort of stuff reckons Thatcher's maiden name was Margret Patel.
Some serious confusion on recruitment here. We have people from all over the globe. I've recruited UK, EU and Commonwealth citizens to the team.
UK and EU is straightforward - they still have to be qualified and be the best candidate for the job.
Non-EU just means a bit more work (for HR), but again no barrier at all to getting a job provided they're here legally and have the paperwork to show it.
chewkw - the folks that you know / know of... Perhaps they're being spun a line by someone who finds it easier to blame the EU rather than be honest with them, or perhaps they really aren't qualified, in which case that's no different to a UK citizen pitching up for a job that they're not qualified for
bencooper - Member
I wonder if I should start buying Euros now...
I see currency speculator(s) is at work ... 😆
[quote=ernie_lynch ] kimbers - Member
I love the way some on the soft left agree with the right-wing bigots and, like them, choose to turn the whole EU debate into one about race.
The fact that a member of their board has tweeted and retweeted racist material, including from the founder of the English Defence League, demonstrates the levels to which the leave campaign has stooped,” she said.
I am relived to see the hard left has stuck with the hard right and simply attacked the messenger rather than deal with the message and then added a straw man to it.
He said vote leave was racist. It either is or it isnt. Given the people you have attacked ,for racism, in vote leave you must accept that at least part of the campaign, and therefore part of the support, is indeed from racists. i think it helpful to term it all racist but its pretty evident which way the racists are voting and campaigning,
No offence to your good self as many on both sides are voting the same way as folk they abhor.Myself included
They are ALL legal here i.e. non are criminals and all with legal passport, why can't they openly said to the immigration officers they are here to seek job? I mean if there are no jobs for them they can go home but why tell them they cannot have the intention to seek employment here?rkk01 - Member
... provided they're here legally and have the paperwork to show it.
rkk01 - Member
chewkw - the folks that you know / know of... Perhaps they're being spun a line by someone who finds it easier to blame the EU rather than be honest with them, or perhaps they really aren't qualified, in which case that's no different to a UK citizen pitching up for a job that they're not qualified for
They are charted accountants so as qualified as any of your charted accountants ...
The other one is a scientist who finally got a job but having to endure a period of stress because of EU regulations ...
Yeah well I can vote leave and still fight racism. Us on the hard-left are sophisticated like that.
[quote=molgrips"]Not sure if serious, but that won't be true.If they are even being interviewed in the first place it means there is probably a justification for a non-EU employee. This makes the work visa application pretty straight forward (standardised rules/guidelines help too, as does a department to deal with this sort of stuff). We mostly get them within 8-12 weeks. Pretty much a standard industry notice period.
So yes. They do just get off a plane and work.
Unless they have a criminal record, dodgy past or something that would make a visa more difficult to obtain. In which case we wouldn't want them working for us either. EU, domestic or otherwise
Knowing Chewkw would probably be an employment stopper too.
Would you put that in writing if I were to apply to your company? 😛ghostlymachine - Member
Knowing Chewkw would probably be an employment stopper too.
Um. Chartered by who? An organisation recognised by the EU?They are charted accountants so as qualified as any of your charted accountants ...
I know many professions require conversion courses depending on where the degree/qualification came from and where you are going. Law, medicine, finance, education. And so on.
No employer is going to wait a year for that to happen.
On a lighter note, have we done this?
come on now ernie the offending tweets werent even dog whistle, just straight up racist, so i dont see how my use of that is reverse dog whistle
I like the way you are so quick to dismiss the racist hijack of VL that seems to have happened, especially in yorks, go on the bnp website, you get a pop up about defeating the EU superstate. VL using neonazis to man the yorkshire stalls, VL didnt bother to dissuade them.
Its obvious that the Gove/Bojo etc are more than happy for farige and the far right to stir up hatred and innocently reference it obliquely. because fear of immigration is what gives them their best results in opinion polls.
Crikey, you really have low expectation of non-EU people don't you?ghostlymachine - Member
They are charted accountants so as qualified as any of your charted accountants ...
Um. Chartered by who? An organisation recognised by the EU?
I know many professions require conversion courses depending on where the degree/qualification came from and where you are going. Law, medicine, finance, education. And so on.
Chartered by ALL the British institutions i.e. ACCA, ICWA, ACA whatever professional bodies you have they got it all ...
As for the scientist the qualification is from British Institution as well ...
Most that I know have British Qualifications !!! Most commonwealth people who are here have some form of qualifications that are either British or British recognised.
Yep, qualifications come in lots of different forms - not just from a college or professional institution.
Our firm is in science & engineering. We've always had a lot of people moving to / from Aus and NZ. Same language, similar degree set up and also similar legal systems. A number of folks also go to / from the US, particular tech experts and client contact types - but for most of us the very different legal system and way of dealing with regulators is a bit of a block. Not to say we couldn't transfer across, but more difficult case to make / other candidates better placed?
By the same store, transfer to say France or Germany would be difficult (not just language). Although the basic EU Directives that underpin environmental law are the same, both these countries have a very different regulatory approach
[quote=ernie_lynch ]Yeah well I can vote leave and still fight racism. Us on the hard-left are sophisticated like that.
I am sure you are, just as I can vote stay and still fight Tories, but you cannot negate the argument i just made.
[quote="chewkw"]Crikey, you really have low expectation of non-EU people don't you?Whut? I just have plenty of experience of the pitfalls. Even transferring between the UK, France, Germany, Spain etc requires a conversion in some fields. But you knew that. Oh. No you didn't. 😕
Chartered by ALL the British institutions i.e. ACCA, ICWA, ACA whatever professional bodies you have they got it all ...
As for the scientist the qualification is from British Institution as well ...
Most that I know have British Qualifications !!! Most commonwealth people who are here have some form of qualifications that are either British or British recognised.
Well, unless there are other factors here (legal status, criminal record etc) then I fail to see the issue. As stated, they'd need to be the best / most suitable candidate. IF they are being discriminated against, then it possibly says more about the person hiring than it does about the EU.
Over the last 20-30 yrs, many working class Brits have struggled to break in to the middle class professions - If your face doesn't fit / not one of us. For the large / reputable employers this has definitely changed over the last 5-10 yrs, and is one of the areas where EU membership has probably helped. It is the smaller employers / owner-manager types that tend to work along the "what I say goes" approach, which is why I am suspicious of the smaller businesses wanting to get out of EU and cut red tape.
ghostlymachine - Member
chewkw » Crikey, you really have low expectation of non-EU people don't you?
Whut? I just have plenty of experience of the pitfalls. Even transferring between the UK, France, Germany, Spain etc requires a conversion in some fields. But you knew that. Oh. No you didn't.
Imagine this ... they offered the scientist the job then backtracked by saying they needed to check the EU directives. Guess what they had to advertise again in EU etc ... then finally gave the scientist the job.
In other cases - Russian doctors I know have to convert their qualifications but that is normal ...
The chartered accounts both obtained qualifications through British Institutions. One had to go (dependent visa) because he was told the govt would not issue him the "work permit" even when was already working with the company! The company liked him but they just could not get work permit for him because company could not convince the bureaucrats!
rkk01 - Member
Well, unless there are other factors here (legal status, criminal record etc) ...
No criminal record.
All perfectly legal.
The only barriers ... EU employment rules!
One had to go (dependent visa) because he was told the govt would not issue him the "work permit" even when was already working with the company! The company liked him but they just could not get work permit for him because company could not convince the bureaucrats!
I think Vote Leave would regard that as "being in control of immigration"
sounds more like UK immigration rules to meThe only barriers ... EU employment rules!
My god, leavers are stupid. Newsnight just now:
"These young people, they don't know what it was like before we voted in. We were ok then, we'd be ok now". That's the whole argument.. 🙄
Evan Davies: "It doesn't bother you that the Prime Minister, the BoE Governor, the Chancellor, they all say we'll be poorer if we leave?"
Leaver: "No. They don't know any more than we do."
ED: "The Governor of the BoE, an economic specialist.. you don't think he knows more than you?"
L: "Yeah, but he doesn't know what it's like to walk round Sainsbury's and be surrounded by people on benefits spending tokens."
What the ****?
Others complaining about cancelled operations. As if that's the EU's fault? ****ing hell.
you must accept that at least part of the campaign, and therefore part of the support, is indeed from racists. i think it helpful to term it all racist
helpful to whom ???
he doesn't know what it's like to walk round Sainsbury's and be surrounded by people on benefits spending tokens
he probably doesn't know.
Or EU is not made up to be what they are supposed to be. Innit!rkk01 - Member
I think Vote Leave would regard that as "being in control of immigration"
Ya, good excuse that innit! Blame this and that. I was very surprised that the company could not even get past the immigration rules. I mean immigration rules dictate how the company should operate? 😆 Finally, he gave up and went home ...sounds more like UK immigration rules to me
So yes. They do just get off a plane and work.
You cannot just get off a plane and LOOK for work. They have to be the only applicant for a job that has previously been advertised and could not be filled by an EU citizen. At least in the case of the US they do.
For that to happen it has to be a pretty specialist role. So the fact that you see Americans, Canadians and Australians working here does not mean that it's easy - except for the young person visa for the last two iirc.
I like the way you are so quick to dismiss the racist hijack of VL that seems to have happened
Of course I'm not quick to dismiss the racist hijack of vote leave. It was evident right from the start that is exactly what would happen.
There was never any doubt that the left who are anti-EU wouldn't get an opportunity to express our opinions in the media.
And that is precisely what has happened.
But I'm not accepting this bollocks that you've got to vote leave to fight racism. Or that voting remain somehow means you're not a racist.
Tory voters at the present are split 50/50 over the EU, are you seriously suggesting that there aren't any racists among half of Tory voters who intend to vote remain? They are all perfectly happy with a black family moving in next to them, or their daughters marrying a black man ? Some might not have quite the same problem with Poles though.
And are the up to 40% of Labour voters who have considered voting leave really motivated primarily by racism ? If so why aren't they UKIP voters instead ?
I'm finding this constant claim by many on the soft-left that the UK is turning racist increasingly tedious. I am not aware of any country anywhere in the world which is LESS racist than the UK.
And the UK appears to be unique among all other comparable countries in that it has NEVER EVER elected a far-right neo-nazi MP to its national legislative. Can you think of any other European country which can make that same proud boast?
Last Thursday in a by-election in London UKIP received 1.6% of the vote - 507 votes. The only other petty racist bigot party, the English Democrats, received precisely 50 votes (0.2%). Proper full-on racists like the BNP didn't even bother standing. Is this really proof that Britain is facing a threat from racists?
And quite apart from the UK being the least racist country in the world it is also one of the most diverse and multicultural in the world. How many can you think of that are more so?
So by all means fight racism, it should always be fought, but stop your ridiculous overstated scaremongering.
flanagaj - Member
BSers have been able to tap into the soft underbelly of xenophobia and racism that exists in our society
I hear this boring argument from the remain all the time and it has become soooooo tiresome. Just because you want to have control over immigration does not mean you are a closet racist! Please stop pedaling this overdone and simplistic viewpoint.
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
And yet, you boys have yet to produce any real eveidence that immigration is the root of any problem, you pretend that it has a negative impact on wages (wrong), employment (wrong), services (wrong) and as appealing as the idea might sound to a xenophobe, the evidence is unsurprisingly lacking. So what is one left with as conclusion,....?
If there is no evidence to back up the claims, the only real fear is that of foreigners per se ie xenophobia or simple ignorance. You guys decide.
Alternatively post any decent evidence that suggests that immigration is having a statistically significant, negative impact of our economy or social lives....
Three days left......
[quote=TurnerGuy ]you must accept that at least part of the campaign, and therefore part of the support, is indeed from racists. i think it helpful to term it all racist
helpful to whom ???
i DONT think it helpful to term it all racist but its pretty evident which way the racists are voting and campaigning,
Apologies for the omission. Not all of leave is racist , some is and some is not. I dont think its helpful, in general, to call leave racist nor is it helpful to deny its there for at least some of the supporters/campaigners.
A simple question where can you find EU jobs advertised in the UK?
I mean is there a place where all EU jobs are advertised?
Where from? I want to see basic to high end job?
People keep saying we have to advertise in EU etc before the job can be offered etc but I have not seen any EU job advertised ...
chewkw - genuinely trying to be helpful here. Sounds like someone is bullshitting your mates. AFAIK EU influence on our immigration policy / controls is limited to the free movement of EU citizens. If your friends are non-EU then I can only see that the issues they are having are with UK immigration, not EU.
In the 10 years I've been with my current company I have worked with (at least / top of my head):
British
Australian
New Zealand
South African
Canadian
French
Dutch
Belgian
Irish
Polish
Italian
Spanish
American
Iraqi
And probably a few more besides. A good mix of EU and non EU.
Have you considered addressing the point that has been made- he never claimed that straw man- rather than making your own point?are you seriously suggesting that there aren't any racists among half of Tory voters who intend to vote remain?
By any neutral estimation of the campaign/support its pretty clear which way has been the more racist not least because you yourself have criticised vocal leave campaigners on here for being racist.
you pretend that it has a negative impact on wages (wrong),
Picked you up on this already THM, but thats incorrect - it has no net negative impact on [i]average[/i] wages. Very different thing. See Nickell and Saleheen research for BOE
