It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
That's a simplistic outlook really.
Econ data has been revised up in UK and down in EU area. Next year EU growth slowing while UK growth is picking up.
1) So why's the Chancellor talking about an 8% hit in GDP in the event of no deal? You don't think there's ANY cause for worry? Ok so there might be positive scenarios but there might also be negative scenarios?
2) How much UK growth is driven by spending to mitigate the effects of brexit? Does anyone know?
Do you still see many products that are “Made in the UK”?
Every item of clothing I have on, from my shoes up… made in the UK. Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that's consumers choosing to accept that, based mostly on price. Now, why do you support nailing the coffin shut on UK manufacturing by reducing our home market from 30+ countries, to just a handful?
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
Ahh… the "not as damaging as some predicted" gloss on our economy being held back by Brexit preparations.
Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that’s consumers choosing to accept that, based mostly on price.
Or maybe not being able to afford the choice. Bit of an insensitive post there.
Just realised my underpants were not made in the UK. Sorry for that. A mistake not a lie. Keep remembering there is a difference.
Bit of an insensitive post there.
Not at all. I did not critize buying based on price, just making it clear why people are happy to buy offshored goods instead of UK made ones, myself included.
With UK manufacturers losing straightforward access to the huge EEA market, I'd expect UK products to become rarer, and increasingly carrying a premium that most can't or won't pay.
Things would have to become pretty bad in the UK before it's cheaper to pay people to make low cost stuff here than in Bangladesh or China.
And there aren't that many people out of work. So people sewing t-shirts aren't available to make jet engines or medical equipment etc.
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is
Well then.
You earlier asserted that the EU forces its members to take non-EU immigrants. Quote:
But the EU is still using its powers to force eu nations to take non eu immigrants as well.
When I asked for clarification, you posted a link to an article where a couple of Eastern bloc countries were being penalised for refusing to take in refugees.
So either you were lying then or you're lying now. Which is it?
Of course we should accept a limited number of refugees, we are a civilised society after all, but the scale of the problem is far more than we can take on (dozens of millions from all sorts of countries)
We took in 6,000 last year, and have 40,000 in total here. Source. That's not "dozens of millions," not by a long chalk.
The EU proposed a quota system in back in 2015 and guess what - we got to opt out of it. Source.
So your notion that the EU is forcing us to take in non-EU immigrants a) isn't referring to immigrants at all, b) doesn't apply to the UK and c) even if it did apply to the UK it would only be a fraction of a percentage of our migrant population.
At this point I'm starting to think that either you need to be a little more critical around what you hold to be facts, or you're just being wilfully disingenuous.
Not sure they are happy to buy rather than have no option to buy. the higher priced items. If they were richer and could afford and choose all UK made stuff I am sure they would be happier.
I put together a single-speed a few years back and tried to use all UK parts but it couldn't be done. Not sure how happy I was about it...
Every item of clothing I have on, from my shoes up… made in the UK. Yes, traditional manufacturing is increasingly offshored… but that’s consumers choosing to accept that. Now, why do you support nailing the coffin shut on UK manufacturing by reducing our home market from 30+ counties, to a handful?
I am surprised you can still find clothing made in UK but is the price for ordinary people? All the clothing I have are made from all over the world. Only my old factory outlet Karrimour jacket that is made locally. If I were to look at my office, living room or kitchen etc, all I notice are items so simple that are not even made in the UK. I do not object to imported goods but I just cannot understand why simpler products have to be manufactured elsewhere?
No, not shutting UK out unless the EU bureaucrats want to play dirty. As the newly elected Msia PM said recently if the West advocate free trade then be sincere to do so ... he was referring to EU. The world is watching EU's action against UK and learning ...
Check the source mol as historians say. Hammond has a specific agenda in the same way Bojo has/had
and his timing was no coincidence
talking of sources at least the moan rag that is the guardian did run a sensible article by Simon Jenkins which highlighted how ridiculous project fear II is worth a read
and it’s important. Why? Because we lost the debate because we are unable to explain clearly what the benefits of being a member of the EU were. Project Fear I and it didn’t work. We should have learned from the Indy debate on why that was a risky strategy. The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work. People are searching for a brighter future even that provided by snake oil salesmen like salmond, trump and Farage
yet even now we keep abusing the Brexiters and pushing Project Fear II and wondering why this won’t work
ridiculous
Hammond has a specific agenda
Go on then what is his agenda - or your take on what it is?.
yet even now we keep abusing the Brexiters and pushing Project Fear II and wondering why this won’t work
Meanwhile, leading brexiters continue to propose contradictory solutions (when the propose anything) dismiss anything as "Project Fear" and complain that people are simply not getting on board without presenting anything to get on board of - it's like standing on the wharf selling tickets to the magical land and expecting people to walk onto your invisible ship.
Can we conclude from deep analysis of the situation that everything will be just fine after brexit? All the problems on the exceptionally long list will be sorted even though most have not been started and will take longer than the time available?
The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work.
So we should just promise everybody everything and fuel it with hopes and prayers?
Hammond has a specific agenda
You'd hope he'd be attempting to benefit the country, but I expect you might be right, a shower of useless pricks the lot of them.
The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work.
How does Trump or those Far right groups in Italy fit into planet positive?
In other news, we'll be OK because WTO, right?
It is “not realistic” to believe the UK can begin trading under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules the day after Brexit in March, the head of the intergovernmental group has said.
“I was a trade negotiator; I negotiated trade deals my whole life and I’m very realistic about how fast you can go with those deals.” WTO director-general Roberto Azevêdo told the BBC’s Today programme.
“The moment that other countries begin to sense an opportunity to increase their market share or increase a quota here or there, they are going to go for that.
“There is going to be a lot of uncertainty here; there will be ... unpredictability and people who are making investments are going to take that into account.”
Most predictions about the impact of a no-deal scenario have been based on trading under WTO rules after Brexit, which is due to happen in seven months’ time.
But Mr Azevêdo said it was “very unlikely that you’re going to have a 100 per cent agreed outcome for all WTO members between now and March”.
Still, blue passports, eh.
I do not object to imported goods but I just cannot understand why simpler products have to be manufactured elsewhere?
They don't have to be, but if it's cheaper to do so, then many will be. Also, if you're going to manufacture here, it helps if your home market is bigger than just these wee isles.
No, not shutting UK out unless the EU bureaucrats want to play dirty.
The UK is shutting itself out of the EEA, with you cheerleading along. We'll still be able to sell to all those countries, but as a third country, not as if it was all part of our home market. That is not the same thing… it is more complicated, expensive, and slow.
Listen to this and try to tell me again the brexiters understood what they were voting for. They've had two years and they are still completely ignorant https://soundcloud.com/bbcradiokent/nodealbrexit-heated-debate
Oh, it gets better. Have a listen to this, it's priceless.
We've just passed a law prohibiting a border in Ireland. Unfortunately, WTO requires border checks. We've effectively just made it illegal for ourselves to trade under WTO.
Anyone have a brewery they need a piss-up organising in?
Hammond - pro Europe, soft as possible brexit
Both sides and both parties fundamentally split. Nothing new there. But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous - expect for the real intention of splitting the leave vote. That would only work if we put the various remain options on the ballot box too even the stupid ones like membership of the Euro and all that eventually entails. At least then both sides would be transparent and hopelessly split
trump, five star and salmond fit perfectly. Make up false stories of everything will be better...bingo. As the economist wrote a couple of years ago they only way to counter this is with a true positive narratives not project fears
But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous
So the government can't agree what Brexit means, but we know what we voted for? Right.
Propose an alternative to membership. Vote on it.
Already the case that membership of the Euro would require a further referendum.
Hammond – pro Europe, soft as possible brexit
Hmm. You're saying he's fearful because he's pro-Europe. But why can't it be the other way round? Why can't he be pro-Europe because he's fearful of the alternative?
I'm fearful because of the way things are being completely buggered up. You can't say that's unreasonable, can you?
But it does make the “options were not on the ballot box” argument ridiculous – expect for the real intention of splitting the leave vote.
Not ridiculous at all. There was no leave proposal on the table. None at all. So how could we have a meaningful vote on it when it didn't exist?
You'll say 'the vote was to leave' which I realise, but for that to be a viable question it should have said 'to come up with a proposal to leave'. You have to have an actual thing to vote for. Having a vote for the absence of a thing and then nothign else is stupid.
Imagine if we were trying to decide what to do on a Saturday. I could say 'Should we go to the zoo or not go to the zoo?' That makes sense as a question, but then you can't say 'ok our Saturday is settled, we are not going to the zoo' because then what ARE you going to do?
Hammond – pro Europe, soft as possible brexit
Wait is that what we call and agenda these days?
As the economist wrote a couple of years ago they only way to counter this is with a true positive narratives not project fears
Ah, OK still means shouting project fear every time somebody has some bad news makes you look like an idiot. All bar the most dedicated leavers now accept that there is a serious amount of damage that is coming and some serious costs associated with it.
Perhaps project fear could be replaced by the government releasing costed versions of their plans rather than the PM laughably talking about a Brexit Dividend for the NHS that she has already spent 6x over.
£40bn in leaving payments is not project fear
WTO not working as brexiters think is not project fear
Customs arrangements not being in place is not project fear
the list goes on
No I am merely explaining his position so that his arguments can be put into correct context. FWIW his position is close to mine, but his tactics are not
plus note what the 8% actually is not what gets reported here
The worlds geopolitics is telling us clearly that negativity doesn’t work.
trump, five star and salmond fit perfectly. Make up false stories of everything will be better
Oh I see by positive you mean lie? Fair enough. How do the Brexiters fit into all this?
FWIW his position is close to mine, but his tactics are not
He thinks he's in a position to help reduce the damage to the country as a whole, you think you only need to do what needs doing for your employer, yourself and your immediate circle. You need very different "tactics". His includes pointing out what those in his department have already published as regards different ways of giving up EU membership. There are ostriches leading UK policy currently, and being openly hostile towards even May's plans for our Leaving… simply agreeing with them will not help us at this late stage.
If you liked Jason Hunter chatting to Nigel Farage you’ll love
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx4AF-3Rd44
its 3 men in a pub discussing no deal Brexit.
Very interesting stuff an it’s in a pub an has beer all our faves.
Check the source mol as historians say. Hammond has a specific agenda in the same way Bojo has/had
and because it's the most bonkers post on the page I just can't stop going back again...
BoJo - Agenda - Make BoJo PM, Make the people love BoJo, get more money for BoJo
As demonstrated by his drawn out all about me decision at the start of all this, his sword falling and general positioning.
Hammond- trying desperately to do a decent job as chancellor while trying to explain in short words and pictures the implications of the statements being made by his incompetent colleagues.
Not even close to being the same way, direction or anything else!!
Of course we knew what we were voting for. The question was simple and clear.
Do you want the be a member of the EU or leave the EU
More people voted to leave the EU than to stay a member. So we are where we are. Next step? Having made that choice - and for the democrats, accepted the result of this and the GE - we move on to determining the best means of maintaing access to the EU. Totally separate issue on which there are different opinions clearly in both parties who are only aligned in one aspect. The result will be respected. On that they both gained a larger share of the vote in the GE
you are correct that given Hammond is the CoE and I am not that we have different responsibilities here but oddly confused re the roles of the two holders of the big three positions in the government. But interest in the idea that those who can’t even support May are ostriches. How are the feathers?
He is the chancellor I'd expect him to talk about economic impacts.
So we have a decision and no idea what leave looks like still. What next? Shrug and go ah well best just finish off the job or do some actual govening for the people.
There is nothing bonkers in recognising that PH and BJ have their own specific agendas. That’s obvious it would be bonkers not to realise that.
Looks like they are governing for the people. Two of the key players are executing the mandate that the people gave them despite both not being supporters of the idea pre referendum.
It will probably cost them both their political futures. The fickle nature of democracy
its 3 men in a pub discussing no deal Brexit.
Cheers. At an hour long, I think I might watch that a little later...!
It will probably cost them both their political futures. The fickle nature of democracy
Yep blindly doing something despite seeing how bad its going probably will finish them off. I think that is a good outcome.
Have we found any good news recently? Where are our exciting new opportunities coming from?
Yes posted above. So far none of the doomsday predictions have come true.
Change always brings new opportunities - that’s exciting
#facepalm
The predictions were/are for after we leave. What date did the UK leave the EU on?
I'm. Sure all the diabetics in the house are looking forward to dabbling on the black market. #exciting
No they were not. Neither official or the misrepresentations presented *. We had clear forecasts for the period after vote but before leaving which proved incorrect fortunately - hence those with their own agendas had to make things appear a lot worse that they are
So the predictions about leaving the UK were about before leaving.... Anyway not long now and we shall see unless somebody cracks or the public get a vote.
On the other side of the predictions though...
The eu would cave on any divorce bill
The eu would offer us great trade terms with no restrictions
The eu would allow us to do whatever we want
Awesome trade deals will be signed within a year
Of course we knew what we were voting for. The question was simple and clear.
We've done this to death. It's semantically simple, but ignoring the fallout of what followed on from such a simplistic referendum is wilful ignorance.
No it’s not mol. As before what is wilful ignorance is to mix up membership of the EU with access to the single market. I posted the link from Gov briefing papers on this many tines. Whether wilfully or not, many chose to prefer ignorance. An agenda perhaps?
Definitely remember being told the economy would drop off a cliff immediately after a pro brexit vote & people saying i told you so after £ dropped.
How much did the bank pump in to halt that?
Hopefully a similar amount to what they had in their scenario planning - as the Central Bank they know how it’s works
Ah so another thing missingfrom. The brexit cost spreadsheet then....
No it should have been an implicit assumption in any model
very surprising if they missed it out
Definitely remember being told the economy would drop off a cliff immediately after a pro brexit vote & people saying i told you so after £ dropped.
1) it did to an extent.
2) the only reason it didn't do so harder was because Mark Carney started printing money, which no-one predicted.
Are we back on page 6 of this thread again? We've discussed this to death.
No it’s not mol. As before what is wilful ignorance is to mix up membership of the EU with access to the single market.
We can have access to the SM via EEA, just like Norway. But then we become "rule takers". This was ruled out quite early on by people like JRM with
An agenda perhaps?
