is the kind of thing one would expect a true white van driving, EDL supporting, express reading, intellectually challenged, racist, Brexiteer might say.
The thread that keeps giving and …
”so the dick”…
true colours come out under the pressure of Brexit
Fortunately Chewks ability to spot a jab in the ribs and laugh it off is better than your fake outrage.
Dickens, where do you stand on the wheel size argument?
He probably understands what “keeps giving” means too ie, not mistaking outrage for amusement
anyway how are all the preparations going? Several months in and hard Brexit more likely that before. Hope everyone’s getting nice and ready...
To some people, immigrants are immigrants whether they are from EU or not.
Leave TV add, showing people queuing up in hospitals because of EU membership promised fewer immigrants after Brexit, not fewer EU immigrants.
I would bet that it is in fact the majority of Leave voters, who want less immigration full stop, EU and rest of the world.
And on tarifs, for the UK to have zéro tarifs would be suicidal for lots of industries.
anyway how are all the preparations going? Several months in and hard Brexit more likely that before. Hope everyone’s getting nice and ready…
What is your preferred outcome?
Do you still have faith in the grown up's behind the scenes?
My prefences (1) remain then (2) bespoke FTA both not happening/unlikely to happen. So move on....
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit (done) and then hope for best. As grown ups we have made our preps and we are ready for the worst. I have little faith in politicians so never leave it to them. That would be very silly.
But mixed reports on the behind the scenes stuff. Less progress that I had hoped for. Tant pis
So move on….
Think we've covered this. Anyone with a job to do in preparing for Brexit needs to do so. The rest of us (which is most of us) can whine if we want.
And by whine I mean express our discontent with the government which is our democratic perogative nay obligation.
Quick question then - are Scottish people in England immigrants?
Ooops - replied to wrong thread... nothing to see here.
You can mol indeed and if it helps, then why not?
Ooops – replied to wrong thread… nothing to see here.
Quite right it looked factually correct - so no place for it here.
Yep you can roll over and accept it or you can stand up and fight for what you want.
I think you have seen in here plenty who are willing to push for a remain outcome or at least some sort of deal.
Quick question then – are Scottish people in England immigrants?
And where do they sit on the multiculturalism scale? Or the Welsh coming to England speaking a different language and dining in men only choirs...
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit (done) and then hope for best.
So assuming worst case, my lambs may be totally unprofitable when they are ready for sale next September. So do I put the rams in with the ewes and hope for the best, or sell all my sheep now while they still have a value and move back to Germany with my wife to mitigate the worst. Maybe plant the farm up with trees first while there are still some generous on-going payments for rewilding. Might provide a small income for the next 20 years.
welshfarmer, if it's any help, on The Archers a couple of days ago they were getting rid of a third of their flock on the basis that a third of national produce is exported to the EU 🙂
But in your position Germany sounds like a good move.
We have powers at our disposal to further restrict migration but choose not to use them. That’s a UK issue, not an EU one.
cougar - yes you are correct to a point. Government has powers to restrict non eu migration but has pretty much no powers to restrict eu migration. (I've gone over this and I think it was molgrips found the loophole whereby the UK could restrict based on a UK threat but realistically this won't be used and would be blocked by the ecj in any meaningful numbers anyway).
My personal view is it doesn't matter where they are from, we should have a pint system and accept a limted number of those in need. As an aside its pretty much discrimination to let one group of nations in (the eu) and not the rest, but the eu is not known for its fair play...
Is it? How so?
Again – how is this the UK not having a strategy the fault of the EU?
I didn't say it was the fault of the EU, I was just making the point.
France has restricted immigration from countries which joined last like Romania.
I could be wrong but as I understand it there were some initial temporary restrictions once romania joined the bloc but these were lifted years ago.
Zero tariffs on imports? But we have tariffs for a reason on those things. I suspect there’d be significant issues if we did that – but of course I’m not an expert on international trade. I wouldn’t be glibly touting it as a solution though.
Fair comment, I'm no expert either but you do as much research as you can and form a view. Legal experts have said we could set zero tariffs if we wished so if we didn't I presume there would be some greater benefit to it.
You’re condemning the EU on the basis of things it hasn’t done, because it supports your pre-existing position. This is why I am accusing you of confirmation bias.
See link above on the EU taking legal action for member states not taking refugees. If they've done it before on refugees how do you think they would view it on the citizens of their own member states?
See above. Those promoting leave are appealing to people such as you, who are predisposed to the leave side, and presenting things that they know will reinforce your beliefs. It’s how campaigning works.
To true and project leave are doing the same and the losers are lapping it up as evidenced by the fear on this forum. But as I've already said I personally look past the headlines and try to get to the truth.
Indeed but sadly that does not cover everyone. Plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that people did not think through their vote in the least.
Quite right, the same with remainers.
Oh now come on! There is a MASSIVE difference between refugees and immigrants! All the difference in the world. You MUST be able to see that surely?!
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is. Telling them apart when you meet them is a whole different kettle of fish and this has been the debate amongst european leaders and our friends the ecj.
Of course we should accept a limited number of refugees, we are a civilised society after all, but the scale of the problem is far more than we can take on (dozens of millions from all sorts of countries) and we would be much better off helping those people in their own countries wherever possible by brokering peace and helping trade and their economic development (which the EU currently prohibits us from doing in many cases because they are a mafia like protectionist racket).
Right would love to shoot the shit some more but I'm taking the long suffering Mrs Dickens on a posh weekend away...
Definitely Jambalaya
Right would love to shoot the shit some more
Keep your shit to yourself, multi account troll.
Have a nice weekend 😉
So makes sense to prep for worst case ie, hard Brexit
What should I be doing?
Less progress that I had hoped for.
We told you. Way back. And even those of us with contacts in key government departments received the well known THM condescending treatment. You know what you're taking about, we don't, everyone get behind the fantasy politics of whoever currently leads the Conservative party.
aP: "Instead I’m focusing my interest on the US, Canada, Africa and South America where there are infrastructure projects in the pipeline. Australia is a bust flush, and Malaysia seems to be worried about the level of Chinese inward investment and is reducing its reliance."
(Slight diversion)
If I were to invest I would focus on Africa, South America and even Malaysia (we are draining the swamp for new future). The reason for this is that China is moving extremely fast in road into those regions. Yes, we welcome investment but not one that is lopsided like the previous agreement with the Chinese company/govt related during our ex- crook PM. Inward investment is only good if they are not there to exploit and to be the loan shark. If they want to invest then invest properly by creating employment etc, but Not to bring in their entire workforce by grabbing employment from the locals. As our PM has said that to the Chinese govt in his recent trip to China. We welcome inward investments from all over the world as we are business friendly, but if anyone try to exploit us then we will ask them to leave. China is a big country but so is ASEAN, we may not be powerful but we can stand our ground easily. If you have the right investment now for Malaysia you will find that you will be able to benefit very well due to recent change of govt.
everyone get behind the fantasy politics of whoever currently leads the Conservative party.
Did we ever work out who that was?
.If you have the right investment now for Malaysia you will find that you will be able to proceed very smoothly due to recent change of govt.
Sounds awesome, and bad.... What investment needs is stability (unless you are into high risk stuff) so having to worry about another change of government is not good. Bike like how uncertainty is having it's impact in the UK
No you didn’t. You predicted chaos that’s not happened. The doomsday scenarios predicted on here generally and specifically in my area have been miles away from reality. As I told you.
The fantasies simply changed sides in the debate
Fortunately I ignored you and others and made the appropriate preps. Hence no need for hysterics and hyperbole.
It's all going swimmingly THM.
I have investment advice for you as well @chewkw, but am unsure how any of that helps the people I give a shit about living and working in the UK and EEA, working hard to improve their lives and ours.
edit - I see you've added a "(Slight diversion)" caveat - carry on as you were, and ignore my rant. No, actually, don't ignore it… feel free to reply to any of the previous questions as to how we handle Leaving the EU without buggering up the livelihoods of those working rather than investing.
You predicted chaos that’s not happened. The doomsday scenarios predicted on here generally and specifically in my area have been miles away from reality. As I told you.
OK then, still not reading.
Problems - like those being forecast by the actual government now were predicted from the point the UK left the EU. The UK has not left the EU yet (Does this sound familiar?)
What is happening is broadly in line with what most of us predicted which was a hold on investment and uncertainty making things really difficult while big decisions were mostly put on hold. Something that will have a long term impact on the UK.
You told us all that despite nothing happening, lots of things were happening. Turns out nothing was happening and the government is way off the pace in both negotiations and preparations for what comes next.
THM promised that lots of grownups were negotiating behind the scenes and it was all going swimmingly. Well I suppose he can keep on with that fantasy for a few more weeks if he is determined to, but it's hard to square with the softening up of supposedly hard deadlines that we are now hearing about...
Dates moving? Which ones?
I have investment advice for you as well @chewkw, but am unsure how any of that helps the people I give a shit about living and working in the UK and EEA, working hard to improve their lives and ours.
This might be too general for many to consider but I am going to say it be flexible and adopt to change.
Does "flexible and adopt to change" include giving considerition to moving countries to follow work and opportunities. Because that's precisely what some of us are fighting to try and keep as an option for our friends and families.
Does “flexible and adapt to change” include moving countries to follow work and opportunities . Because that’s precisely what some of us are fighting to try and keep.
No, moving to another countries etc those are the prerequisite so very basic it is not even worth considering. No, I am not referring to movement of people like the EU bureaucrats have advocated.
Your industry is dying or slowing ...
Your industry is dying.
Which one? The UK was thriving in the EU, high tech manufacturing, big value add, good automotive investments etc. Even agriculture was going as well as it could be
No, moving to another countries etc those are the prerequisite so very basic it is not even worth considering.
And Brexit helps us to do that how? Thanks.
Your industry is dying.
And Brexit helps how? Thanks.
No you didn’t. You predicted chaos that’s not happened
Seems pretty chaotic to me, government still arguing with themselves about what they want to negotiate for. Tick tock tick tock.
No, I am not referring to movement of people like the EU bureaucrats have advocated.
Moving to a non-EEA country is a bureaucratic nightmare, from what I've seen. The EU reduces the barriers to movement A LOT. One of the reasons you seem to hate it. So… does the EU help us move between EEA countries, or make it harder to move… let us know what you think…
So do I put the rams in with the ewes and hope for the best, or sell all my sheep now while they still have a value and move back to Germany with my wife to mitigate the worst.
Bike park, obvs.
Of course I know what the dictionary definition of migrants vs refugees is. Telling them apart when you meet them is a whole different kettle of fish and this has been the debate amongst european leaders and our friends the ecj.
Then it's a practical issue not a moral or political one.
See link above on the EU taking legal action for member states not taking refugees. If they’ve done it before on refugees how do you think they would view it on the citizens of their own member states
Well the EU can only prosecute according to the law embodied in the treaties to which the countries have signed up. Hardly the actions of a mafia, is it?
I’ve gone over this and I think it was molgrips found the loophole whereby the UK could restrict based on a UK threat but realistically this won’t be used and would be blocked by the ecj in any meaningful numbers anyway
I also highlighted the bit about 'public policy'. To me that looks like you can set a policy on migration from the EU. But again you're arguing against the EU based on something you're guessing they'd do because you don't like them. Circular argument based on supposition.
But anyway - the argument has drifted towards what's wrong with the EU. This is actually subtly different to the question of whether or not we should leave. Being in has issues, but so does being out. Dickens does not seem to acknowledge any issues at all with being out.
Which one? The UK was thriving in the EU, high tech manufacturing, big value add, good automotive investments etc. Even agriculture was going as well as it could be
Do you still see many products that are "Made in the UK"?
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
Manufacturing has has been moving to low cost countries since the 70s. This has nothing to do with the EU and will not be solved by leaving. It may put the nails into the higher end that remains though
the UK is a service based country. Obsession with trying to move back to the past when the rest of the world has moved on is madness
Do you still see many products that are “Made in the UK”?
It looks like very few products/items etc are left that have Made in the UK sign, which is also a sign of industry heading in the wrong direction.
Depends what you are buying? Whats your exposure to the UK manufacturing sector?
No it’s not mike.
Econ data has been revised up in UK and down in EU area. Next year EU growth slowing while UK growth is picking up.
Gilt yields close to record lows allowing U.K. to bottom at attractive rates
Historicallu low UN rate, wages finally growing in t we terms
exceptionally low inflation - impact of £ deval now passed
consumer confidence recovered, manufacturing growth above forecast even construction is recovering
the Waterloo and city land Jubilee lines still packed in the morning indicating that the rubbish about the mass exodus of bankers was just that. This morning more news of French banks adding staff in London
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
The UK is the 8th biggest manufacturer in the world and if pre-brexit trends continued (they haven't) we were on track to be 5th by the middle of the next decade. It makes 44% of exports, and the GVA reached an all time record immediately before the last recession- I don't think it's quite recovered to that level yet but it's not far off.
What we don't do, is employ that many people to do it- because of modern manufacturing and the nature of what we make which is mostly complex and high value- medicines being a good example.
Unfortunately, in June we had the biggest fall for 5 years, and the initial pessimistic predictions of a slow rebound have now been replaced with a 3 month fall in output.
If this is doom and gloom then let’s have more please
When did we leave the EU?
Also your post seems to have quite a lot of letters missing, do you need a new keyboard?
