Corbyn is railroading a party that is against a hard Brexit into supporting one. Nothing to do with "loyalty to the grassroots"… quite the opposite. And he is giving this government an easy ride… he wants them to take the blame for any short term damage (he thinks that it will be only short term, I do not), but wants to be outside EEA or any other close relationship structure with our neighbours, just as the government do. Labour MPs that point this out are harangued by the true believers.
infighting in the labour party... blah, blah, blah....
Change the record FFS. Maybe 2 years ago you'd have had a point? But now...? Seriously? Absolutely nobody is briefing against Jezza other than himself.
The reason why the Labour party are absolutely nowhere is because Corbyn and his anti-EU acolytes are so completely ****ing useless. Full stop!
Never mind what he's saying (in his half-arsed manner), look at what he's doing! On every significant issue over Brexit - at every critical juncture - He's whipping his party to nod through a hard Brexit against its wishes. He's like a guerrilla wing of the far right. He is fully supportive of their aims, hence the total absence of any real opposition
I think even most of the Momentum half-wits have now figured this one out
But Vote Leave won [s]Fair & Square[/s]
with such a leaky ship cant wait to see the emails where VL discuss leaking this report at midnight after the England victory
The reason IMO mfor Corbyns poor polling is the infighting in the labour party and the breifing against him by lkabour MPs giving the right wing press ammo. Its discgusting IMO how much the right wi9ng of the labolur party would rather be out of office than support corbyn.
He is too damaged by them now I agree. However its the right wing of the labour parties fault not corbyns – and his appeal actually goes a long way.
Yeah, just like all those pesky liberals in the Republican party who are wrecking Trumps chance at greatness.
Lol.
With the government in total disarray over Brexit as the deadline looms, Jeremy at PMQ's is going for the jugular
He's asking her about improvements to bus services
Jesus ****ing wept!!!!
Given that most of us will be lucky to afford a bus ticket at the end of this, I think it’s quite a pertinent question
And the last to PMQs he has gone on about brexit and nailed May to the mast.
Binners - I really question you on this when you support Burnham who disgracefully played the race card to get elected mayer and a man who has no principles and no ideas.
Nothing Corbyn can do will please you - are you sure you really are a labour supporter not a shy tory? 😉
Critizing Corbyn's hard Brexit stance (which is pretty much inline with that of the non-ERG Tories, with wriggle room to allow for the occasional "jobs first" sound bite) does not make Binners, or anyone, a "shy Tory". Stop drinking up the propaganda.
Yeah, the irony of being accused of being a Tory by a Corbyn supporter, when Jezza's position on the only real issue of the day is directly in line with such tub-thumping, working class, socialist heroes as Ian Duncan Smith, John Redwood, Boris Johnson, David Davis, Liam Fox, Bill Cash and Michael Gove?
Wut?
Sarcasm flying everywhere. 😉 "shy tory" was a tease.
I really do not know where this idea Corbyn wants a hard brexit comes from. Its not in line with anything I have ever seen from him in recent years. His position is not mine no - but he is able to take a compromise and move along with the evidence.
I stopped voting Labour in the Blair / Murphy years duye to the fact they no longer represented my sort of labour parrty
Corbyn is not really who I would want either but he is a damn sight closer to the labour party I have supported for 40 years than any of the other contenders like Benn
Theme tune to TJs ideal Labour party
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs</span>
Rayban - why don't you just bore off? You really are not funny and ignoring your posts does not stop you making personal attacks on me. You have been warned and banned for the personal attacks. Please stop.
Bloomington heck JLR not holding back
They've already spent £10m on brexit contingency planning
& Reckon that they will have to ditch £80bn UK investment plan in case of hard brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/d077afaa-7f8a-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d
Bloomington heck JLR not holding back
They’ve already spent £10m on brexit contingency planning
& Reckon that they will have to ditch £80bn investment plan in case of hard brexit
Gloves are off, government has been listening to the they need us more than we need them lot too much and now the grown ups are back in the room.
JLR
BMW
Airbus
Rolls Royce
It's a big hole in the UK exchequer
Robert Peston on Facebook. Very interesting. Basically the idea of a bespoke deal isn't remotely possible. It'll be a Norway esque model or hard brexit. Unless common sense prevails and the whole thing is scrapped
This is one of the more important notes I've written recently, because it contains what well-placed sources tell me are the main elements of the Prime Minister's Brexit plan - which will be put to her cabinet for approval on Friday.
I would characterise the kernel of what she wants as the softest possible Brexit, subject to driving only the odd coach over her self-imposed red lines, as opposed to the full coach and horses.
And I will start with my habitual apology: some of what follows is arcane, technical and - yes - a bit boring. But it matters.
Let's start with the PM's putative third way on a customs arrangement with the EU, which has been billed by her Downing Street officials as an almalgam of the best bits of the two precursor plans, the New Customs Partnership (NCP) and Maximum Facilitation (Max Fac).
Last night I described this supposed third way as largely the NCP rebranded - which prompted howls of outrage from one Downing Street official.
But I stand by what I said. Because the new proposal of the PM and her officials, led on this by Olly Robbins, retains the NCP's most controversial element, namely that the UK would at its borders collect duties on imports at the rate of the European Union's common customs tariff.
The UK would in that sense be the EU's tax collector. And although the UK would have the right to negotiate trade agreements with third countries where tariffs could be different from the EU's or zero, companies in the UK importing from those countries would have to claim back the difference from Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC), much in the way they currently claim or pay different VAT rates when trading with the EU.
The reason why, from a bureaucratic if not economic viewpoint, the UK would in effect remain in the EU's customs union is that there is no other way of avoiding border checks between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Or at least that is what the PM and her officials now believe.
To be clear, this would be an asymmetric agreement with the EU: Theresa May may ask EU governments to collect customs duties on behalf of the UK from companies based in their respective countries, but she knows they will respond with a decisive no, nay, never.
Which may seem unfair. But actually this would only be a problem if there were an imminent prospect of a future British government wanting to impose higher tariffs than EU ones. And certainly the political climate now - outside of Trumpian America - is for lower tariffs.
Just to be clear, there will be some of Max Fac in this new synthesised customs plan: IT and camera technology employed to reduce the bureaucracy and frictions of cross-border trade.
But the True Brexiters won't be wholly relaxed (ahem) by what they are likely to see as NCP by another name.
And there's more, of course.
Because frictionless trade and an open border between Northern Ireland and the Republic cannot just be achieved by aligning customs collection rates.
It also requires alignment of product standards, for goods and agricultural products.
Or at least that is what the PM will insist on with her Cabinet colleagues.
And that alignment would in effect replicate membership of the single market for goods and agri-foods.
Which would see European standards and law continuing, ad infinitum, to hold sway over British manufacturing and food production - though the ultimate court of appeal in commercial disputes. would, in May's and Robbins's formulation, be an extra-territorial international court, like the European Free Trade Area's EFTA court.
Given that the ECJ would still have a locus below this final adjudicating tribunal, I assume the True Brexiters such as Jacob Rees-Mogg will be unamused.
But maybe they would take comfort that a British parliament could always withdraw from the trading arrangement, if there were concerns that the rest of the EU was discriminating against the UK.
At this juncture you are saying, I am sure, "oi! what about services?" - given that the UK is largely a service economy (80% of our economic output, our GDP, is generated by service businesses).
Well there is an aspiration to maximise access to the EU's giant market for services by aligning professional and quality standards, for example.
But equally there is a pragmatic recognition that maximising such access would require minimising restrictions on EU citizens moving to the UK to live and work; there is a calculation by Robbins and his officials that, among the EU's so-called four freedoms, free movement of services and free movement of people are pragmatically connected.
And since the PM has pledged to impose new controls on the free movement of people from the rest of the EU, she accepts that the EU will insist on some new restrictions on the sale of British services in its marketplace.
But May and her ministers are hopeful there is a deal to be done here, a trade-off: preferential rights offered to EU citizens to live and work in the UK, compared to the rights available to citizens from the rest of the world, for improved market access in Europe for British service companies.
We'll see.
In the round, you may conclude - as I have - that Theresa May wants a future commercial arrangement with the EU that is not as deep and intimate as Norway's, but is not a million miles from Switzerland's.
From which there follow two crucial if obvious questions.
Will the EU - its chief negotiator Michel Barnier and the 27 government heads - bite or balk?
If Barnier's word was gospel on this, the plan would be dead at birth, because it does put a wedge between the four freedoms: May wants complete freedom of movement for goods (and capital), but restrictions on people.
May's bet is that his employers, the 27 prime ministers and presidents, will be less dogmatic.
But what about her own cabinet and parliamentary party?
If they are in the True Brexit camp, like Davis, Johnson, Fox, and Gove, won't they cry "infamy, infamy, etc", threaten resignation and launch a coup to oust the PM?
Well, what the PM will say to them is that her deal, she believes, is the only one around that stands even the faintest chance of being agreed in Brussels (though, to repeat, you would be right to be sceptical of that).
Which carries a momentous implication - namely that if they reject her vision of Brexit, the default option of exiting the EU without a deal would become the sole option.
And although many True Brexiters would say "hip hip for that", if a no-deal Brexit were to become the only game in town, there would be a revolt of MPs and Lords against the executive, against the PM and her government.
Parliament would - almost certainly - reject exiting the EU without a deal and could, probably would, vote for the UK to join the European Economic Area and remain in the EU's single market.
That would, for most True Brexiters, turn the UK into what they call a "vassal state".
So come Friday, Johnson, Davis, Fox and Gove face an agonising choice: agree to a Brexit plan from May which will stick in their craws like a rotting mackerel head; or reject it and take the risk that what follows is almost their worst nightmare, not a clean no-deal Brexit, but the detested "Brino", or Brexit in name only.
Of course there is always a chance that if they shout and scream loudly enough, May will buckle - and will allow the cabinet to agree on obfuscation for the White Paper on her Brexit negotiating position, to be published 12 July, rather than a clear and unambiguous plan to be put to the EU, of the sort I've described.
If that were to happen, her authority would be undermined, perhaps fatally. And the possibility of there being no deal with the EU, on divorce and future relationship, would become a serious, potentially catastrophic probability.
And in related news... https://news.sky.com/story/vote-leave-whistleblower-shahmir-sanni-says-democracy-has-been-tainted-11426450
Vote Leave tries to get retaliation in first 🙂
Full report could make for interesting reading - no doubt the Electoral Commission will be the next to labelled enemies of the people.
If Pestons anything like right, Friday is going to be shit sandwich day- the only question is who is going to be eating it.
I predict more can kicking, not resigning ministers … somehow … they'll kick the can past the Leave date if they can find a way …
Well its sleepover on Friday and England match on Sat so the timings good to drop the bad news 🙂
I hope we are all going to boycott Jaguar from now on what with their surrender monkey scare tactics.
I hope we are all going to boycott Jaguar from now on what with their surrender monkey scare tactics.
The baby range rover is already cancelled, I'll be having a stern word with the driver about the next car he gets to.
MPs should boycott ther Jags too and go for something built by a proper British car manufacturer making British cars in Britain, just like they did in the good old days. So, Morgans all round!
Seems to me that the only way May can possibly now avoid the oncoming financial armageddon is to sit the shower of *s down tomorrow morning and say "Right! Enough *ing about now! There's two documents on the table in front of you. One is a Brexit deal involving remaining in the customs union and the single market - basically what we've got now but you can call it something else if it helps you keep the swivel-eyed loons happy - and the other is your resignation letter. Sign the first one right now, or sign the latter one and **** off!"
She won't, of course.
Financial armageddon it is then.
There is no chance of this being accepted by the eu
of course they will. They need us more than we need them, remember......
MPs should boycott ther Jags too
I think you are over estimating their commitment to the cause. The downsides of Brexit are for the plebs and not the Brexit supporting elites. Why Rees-Mogg company is setting up its Dublin branch and so on.
Its coming to something when its left to Len McCluskey to act as the voice of reason, state the bleeding obvious and try and talk some sense into an increasingly insane looking government
JLR is one of the manufacturing success stories of this country. Much of that is down to the dedication of a workforce who have fought tooth and claw for a future.
But now tens of thousands of decent jobs - the sort we will need more than ever outside the EU - are being put at risk by a government that places its survival, indulging narrow, extremist views, above the well-being of the people of this country. This is simply not acceptable.
So I say this to the Tory party, our jobs are not yours to play Russian roulette with. Drop your red lines and secure a decent deal, one that is to the benefit of the working people of this country. And if you cannot agree to put people before your ideology then move over and let a party that will, get on with it.
Oh... and apparently David Davis is about to resign....
Again.
Sure you are Dave
So, Morgans all round!
only problem, Mazda gear boxes and Ford engines.
Well according to raving nutter Owen "badgers moved the goalposts*" Paterson on state media outlet R4Today this morning, JLR can just import cheap bits from China instead of - you know - just-in-time supply chain from Germany, or wherever. I guess they will be scouring e-bay for knock-off clutch components and whatnot.
* https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/09/badgers-moving-goalposts-owen-paterson-cull
David Davis must have had more comebacks than Frank Sinatra.
@binners - I recently interviewed at learning establishment once frequented by DD. I inadvertantly said "I note that your alumni includes some of the greatest economic and political theorists of modern times. And David Davis". There was definitely some awkward giggling from the panel.
What really gets to me is that two years in the tories still don't have a position they can agree on let alone one that is acceptable to the Eu
The level of incompetence is unbelievable
The level of incompetence is unbelievable
In fairness it is pretty much an impossible task. Unfortunately although the people have spoken they seemed to have mumbled a bit and not said precisely want they want.
you'd have thought they would have had a plan before invoking article 50, hey ho you make your bed you better be ready to sleep in it regardless of the big steaming turd left by boris and his cronies.
Yes it's tricky. However to have spent two years squabbling goes beyond stupidity
because the costs and implications of any solution are so vast no politician has been brave enough to own that. Those wanting to leave can#t touch reality as it's so toxic and revert to expert bashing.
If May stands up and declares to have what they want will cost this and have these implications do you still want to go for it will finish her.
As a country, I think we desperately need another General Election before next March, where the main parties split into "Bremain" and "Brexit," fielding one of each for every constituency.
Or, alternatively, another "how long is a piece of string" referendum.
Sorting out this mess should have a cross-party group from the start, rather than wranglings within each party for personal MP gain and between the parties, after we all point the finger at May and tell her that she and Cameron have royally screwed this country for the coming decades.
I think that Danny Dyers assessment still stands up as the definitive statement on Brexit
At the moment Dave is rightly regarded as thee worst PM this country has ever had, because he got us into this mess for the sake of a short-sighted piece of party political chicanery.
But I think May will end up being regarded as even worse. The endless can-kicking, policy by vacuous soundbites, dithering and total wilful refusal to address the issue seriously will end up being the greatest dereliction of duty by a British PM, and quite possibly and World leader, ever!
I think that Danny Dyers assessment still stands up as the definitive statement on Brexit
Yup. It was at that stage we jumped out of the plane working on theory we could knock together a parachute before we hit the ground. Unfortunately currently the ground is approaching and we havent got past whether a parachute is the best idea or whether we should go for a wingsuit or possibly a helicopter instead.
Its not helped by the fact there are plenty of the brexit elites who are seeing the opportunity for large profits whilst making sure they wont be around for when it goes wrong.
Another shot across the bows from Business from the Guardian site:
Some of Germany’s most powerful businesses have warned that Brexit uncertainty is putting them off investing in the UK.
Germany Industry UK, which represents 100 companies, including BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lufthansa, the train and bus operator Arriva and the steel producer ThyssenKrupp, said it needed “certainty and clarity about the way forward sooner rather than later”.
Bernd Atenstaedt, the chairman and chief executive of GIUK, said it was frustrating for his member businesses because they still did not know what a post-Brexit Britain would look like two years after the referendum.
“There is some reluctance from German business to invest in the UK with projects on hold because of the uncertainty about the future and with only nine months left before the UK leaves the EU, time is running out,” he said.
The can-kicking has surely reached an end? Mind you, someone noted that all these companies that are threatening to pull out of the UK are all based in Labour constituencies, so will the Tory's actually give a ****?
It should certainly be focusing Corby's mind, though. If thats possible?
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Mind you, someone noted that all these companies that are threatening to pull out of the UK are all based in Labour constituencies, so will the Tory’s actually give a ****?
It should certainly be focusing Corby’s mind, though. If thats possible?
The major victims of Brexit are mostly Labour constituencies which voted for Brexit.
Yes of course it's an impossible situation. Well, almost impossible (the solution is to abandon brexit). But the Tories charged into it head first and eyes wide open, the fact that they didn't think more carefully is not an excuse.
JLR can just import cheap bits from China
My brother-in-law and sister-in-law both work for JLR. Him as a some kind of product manager and her in buying/procurement (oh and she's German). I look forward to hearing their views on Mr Paterson's suggestion. I suspect they will be slightly less than complimentary!