But the Tories charged into it head first and eyes wide open, the fact that they didn’t think more carefully is not an excuse.
The vote giving approval to issue a50 was pushed through the House of Commons voted by a majority of 384 votes (498 to 114)
the blame is not just with the tories every member in both houses shares the culpability for starting this and for letting it progress the way it has. No insistence on cross party negotiation teams etc.
Not standing up and fixing a clear problem or at least trying makes them all as responsible as May, Boris,DD and the rest of that shower
the blame is not just with the tories every member in both houses shares the culpability for starting this and for letting it progress the way it has.
Many of them voted in favour of A50 against their own wishes because that's what their constituents voted, and they saw their jobs as democratic representatives. You have to admit there's a point to be addressed here - what should an MP do? Go with his or her own position or simply represent that of their constituents? I don't think their role is clearly defined, is it?
Of course, mathematically speaking it's not a good idea as we clearly saw - over 80% of the commons votes compared to 52% of the popular vote...
My MP voted to leave against his constituents.... power of the whip I guess
the point is that the MPs have a responsibility to not stand by. This is such a momentous change that little jibes at PMs questions doesn’t cut it.
Standing by and leaving it up to the conservatives should not be an option. They don’t even represent 50% of Parliament ffs...
Can I just say that I'm having schadenfreude overload laughing at the frothing gammons on Twitter
The sandwich that's been sitting on May's desk has now been picked up off the plate and now it is time to take a bite.
Fishing, same size industry as sewing machine manufacturing. You could not make this up... Total annual revenue from this vital British industry amount to about two weeks of revenue at JLR and other large UK-based multinational companies
The vote giving approval to issue a50 was pushed through the House of Commons voted by a majority of 384 votes (498 to 114)
Regardless of whether brexit is a good or bad thing, I can never forgive those MPs who voted for A50 with no plan in place.
Fishing is politically important. The tory gains in Scotland were partly on the back of promises about fishing
I think the SNP should take over the whole thing. We'll sort your shitstorm out but then we're off, alright? 😉
Fishing is politically important. The tory gains in Scotland were partly on the back of promises about fishing
And who was it who screwed the fishing industry, memories are short.
I would certainly agree that Labour is almost as culpable as the Tories. Slightly less so, they aren't in charge of the legislative agenda, but they have still been derelict in their duty.
You have to admit there’s a point to be addressed here – what should an MP do? Go with his or her own position or simply represent that of their constituents?
They should put what's best for the country over what people think they want, n'est-ce pas? What if their constituents want to abolish tax?
And who was it who screwed the fishing industry, memories are short.
Greedy fishermen, mostly.
Fishing is politically important. The tory gains in Scotland were partly on the back of promises about fishing
See Trump and Steel.... screwing over tens of thousands of people to help a tiny number because it sounds politically important,
At the moment Dave is rightly regarded as thee worst PM this country has ever had, because he got us into this mess for the sake of a short-sighted piece of party political chicanery.But I think May will end up being regarded as even worse. The endless can-kicking, policy by vacuous soundbites, dithering and total wilful refusal to address the issue seriously will end up being the greatest dereliction of duty by a British PM, and quite possibly and World leader, ever!
Yep - this will be in university political courses for generations to come as being far and away the most catastrophically stupid political machination ever attempted anywhere in the entire history of the world.
The original idea, the thought of deciding it based on a referendum, the way that was then run (with lies & breaches of electoral policy) and then the continuing pursuit of total economic devastation under the line that it was "the will of the people" is criminally insane.
The stupid thing is you really only need to take out about a dozen people to kill the idea off completely. Dacre, Farage, Johnson, Gove, Davis, Rees-Mogg, Murdoch - plus maybe a couple of hangers on/associates and the whole thing would curl up and die pretty quickly.
It goes back to the fact we as a nation don’t really know what our industries are.
we are famous for fish and chips so fishing must be a big industry.
It perhaps it is just much easier to imagine fishing compared to some cloud design service or it could be politically better to say we must save the fishing tradition rather than the call centers..
i can say I have no real idea where the UK generates its revenue.
The problem with fishing is that most fish caught in the UK goes for export, so can't really be delayed while custom checks are carried out, so need the frictionless customs that the fisherman voted against.
...and according to my cornish friend , all the fish caught in cornwall has to go off to a central eu fish market and then we have to buy it back.
Zippy
An urban myth
Tj sarcasm I think.....
He honestly actually factually said that to me as we were driving back to the airport.
As we had just shared his hospitality and we were in his car I thought I'd better bite my lip.
Feel free to go through my history as I was so gobsmacked at the time I had to let you lot know about it.
I remember when I was fruit picking in OZ we would sometimes ship from North Queensland down to the fruit market in Melbourne rather than Brisbane as a better price could be have then it would be shipped back to stores close to us.
seemed like madness but they did anything to maximise the sale price per box and the difference in transportation cost was minimal
the difference in transportation cost was minimal
Dunno if it is still the case but one company shipped langoustine from Scotland to Thailand for processing before they got returned as scampi.
A pretty good summary by Gary Younge of this whole chaotic farce
Rudderless and riven by Brexit, the Tories have only one ambition left
So on Friday at Chequers the government will do what it has been doing for the past two years: spend an inordinate amount of time negotiating with itself before producing a “solution” that is unworkable, only to take it to Brussels and discover it is also unacceptable. The problem is not just that they don’t have a rabbit; they don’t even have a hat.
Is there a single person who believes that by the end of today we'll be any clearer on anything than we were 2 years ago? Surely not even May believes there will be a shred of progress or unity.
All I'm hoping for is that some peoples bluff finally gets called and she issues ultimatums to the nutters to either sign up to a sensible option or resign, thus instigating the collapse of this utterly inept government, and then the two wings of the Tory party can set about the all out war with each other they've threatened for decades.
I don't have much more hope in Corbyn when it comes to the EU, but anything has to be better than this
Can the can (Suzi Quattro reference not deliberate) be kicked any further down the road or is this it?
I get the impression that as far as the likes of Airbus, JLR, Rolls Royce, Siemens etc are concerned this is the last chance saloon before they say "* it! Time to get the * out of Dodge to somewhere a bit less mental", and we start the rapid downward spiral into a dystopian No Deal hell that has previously only existed in John Redwoods head
Had Davis threatened to resign yet ?
I believe that the formerly disgraced minister Liam Fox has threatened to quit, thus improving our chances of getting a decent trade deal by 976.45%
Top Trumps are missing a trick here by not releasing a set of cards featuring cabinet ministers and their reason for quittage.
Top Trumps are missing a trick here by not releasing a set of cards featuring cabinet ministers and their reason for quittage.
More like the deck of cards the US forces had in Iraq. Who'd be the Ace of Spades in the Brexit deck though? J R-M, BoJo, May, Davies? Farage obvs the Joker,
We are at the point where the obviousness of this must start to be clear to more and more people…
https://twitter.com/nickcohen4/status/1015227587927388160
My local (tory) MP is a full Brexit roaster.
He's all over the news / facebook / local events and essentially all he ever does is shit stir to whip up the local Gammons:
"We must deliver the Brexit people voted for"
"We mustn't betray those who voted for Brexit"
"Brexit means brexit"
"Look at these people!!11! They're trying to betray Brexit. We musn't betray Brexit".
I have never, ever actually heard him define what people want from Brexit. Deliver what? Why? What does it offer to people in your area?
It offers nothing that's why. When we all end up poorer he can still say we delivered Brexit. Oh well you never said you didn't want economic ruin, we just delivered Brexit!!
Brexit chickens all coming home to roost
Come on Leave voters, you e all gone so quiet.. jambs, ninfan, turnerguy, deviant, cheek, even THM isn't here to tell us how great the Tories are doing
Anyway here's some for the gammons
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1015206409133350912?s=19
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1015223064555130880?s=19
The news is in. It's to be a specially picked cherry cake that we can have and still eat
It's a breakthrough. Unfortunately one that is simply never going to be accepted by the EU
got to start somewhere
Soft brexit it is then
Telegraph is frothing
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/;jsessionid=k0uy4b2ngvebpqfiqmgsffwavcbqwiv0/
Just wait till we concede even more to the EU
It's still not going to be accepted by the eu. It's just total nonsense
Why's it nonsense, specifically?
I can see some significant issues though - if Parliament has to argue over each and every rule for harmonization, it's going to be US style horse trading, we'll end up with people having to trade progressive legislation in one area for neocapitalist exploitation in another.
Why’s it nonsense, specifically?
FOM for farm workers and not bankers, and for engineers/factory workers but not hotel staff it all sounds a bit daft assuming those parts of the economy staying in the singlemarket are going to abide by the "rules"
sorry i meant Mobility Framework not FOM silly me
Brexit the rebranding exercise
Random Twitter comments
This would have been a good starting negotiation standpoint 16 months ago. But now? This is embarrassing.
On losing jobs due to leaving the EU.
It's something we'll just have to get through. Like the Blitz.
As it stands can I still buy my chocolates from Belgium at the same price?
Depends if they are on the list for goods to be on the free trade agreement.
obviously as it has taken 2 years to get to a position how long will it be to define all of the other policies and have those agreed.
If the fallback is we are in until everything is decided as a contributing rule taker it may make the Canada treaty seem fast...
As it stands can I still buy my chocolates from Belgium at the same price?
Only if we beat them in the final
If Sweden win will will have to take the krona as our currency?
it is nonsense because the 4 freedoms are not negociable .
As Chris says
It's still attempting to cherry pick and split the four freedoms. There is no recognition of the position of the eu
It's not even a starting point. There is nothing for the eu to work with
at least the Brexiters are going in full meltdown .