[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Has the EU suddenly become the super state that people feared? if you are not in the club the union will deliberately screw you.

Well, this is exactly what the EU said would happen- no deals, get out. Why are you surprised?

I'm seeing this now with Brexiters- the realisation that the EU meant what they said, and a dawning realisation that maybe we aren't the special snowflakes we thought we were.....

Bit like the UK/US special relationship, we think it's a relationship, they think we are special

Has the EU suddenly become the super state that people feared? if you are not in the club the union will deliberately screw you.

WHat like when RUK said Scotland could not have its currency?
Separate unions dont look after the ones who leave they look after themselves- this is not about "superstate its just obvious. We dont help out Japan or Canada or etc

I'm beginning to think this could be the best thing to happen to the UK for decades.. a whiff of a political revolution without a brick being thrown.

We seem to have given power to politicians who dont have a clue what they want, have no plan to deliver and are backpedalling furiously on their own pledges[ lies basically] to the extent they are not even claiming they will be delivered.
How is this a change?

he EU will be working hard to create something acceptable for all.

The EU willok after the EU they have said CLEARLY that to be in the club you need to follow the rules there is no special deal for us and they will look after the EU

we can lower
our interest rates and also print new money

[img] [/img]

How long until the bricks start flying though? Contracting economy, a rapidly unraveling pack of lies about immigration and investment, the anger is going to keep building.

the fact that the living embodiment of the establishment (Boris and IDS) posed as an anti-establishment vote and got away with it is incredible enough (seriously - HOW stupid and gullible?). But even they must be getting nervous about now implimenting their true agenda. Because to reach their goal of a corporatist neo-liberal nirvana, then surely the NHS (and other public services) must be starved of funds, and immigration will need to increase to drive wages down further (how long before the minimum wage is abolished?)

To a population who are already (sadly belatedly) realising they've been well and truly bent over, I can't see this playing well

grantway - Member

Lol everything is short term. To what is actually going to happen is basically nothing
We are all to in twinned and that's why everything is inverted commas short time worded.
The U.K. Is structurally sound and the banks have been constantly tested since of their collapse.
Against a fragile European economy full of nearly all members in debt. Just give up all the speculation and the what if's
Nothing is going to happen without hurting the other and the U.K. Economy is singly stronger and we can lower
our interest rates and also print new money, in Europe you cannot do that but take out a further loan.

Do you know what you're even typing?

It's interesting, when looking at responses as a whole across many forums and facebook the general observations I have taken is that leave voters (or those that depict themselves as leave votes) generally type poorly worded responses with poor grammar, while the remainers type coherent responses with, in the main correct grammar and so on.

Just an observation.

On to your response Grantway, we're going to print our own money are we? Do you know what that even means?
We can lower our interest rates now? You do realise we've been doing that while we were part of the EU because we didn't join the single currency.

The UK economy is sound (or was), because it's been able to build itself up using the EU market (in the main) to do so, but the British public has decided to torpedo that progress. Banks are currently structurally sound, but if inflation goes up which is likely, prices will go up, demand will drop for all but the bare essentials, businesses will go out of business and jobs will begin to disappear.

Banks can't do much about all of that. Now some may say that's an extreme view, but a possibility in both the short to medium and long term.

I don't think the EU will say **** off, the best solution for everyone is that the UK stays a member of the single market, but they will expect the UK to meet the same conditions as everyone else to have that access, if that is unpalatable to the UK then we will be shown the door.

The response so far from the EU (and the member states) has been professional and courteous, shame the same cannot be said of the UK.

Other than the hard line fascists with zero power like Farage, I don't think any of the politicians really want brexit. Given how close the vote was, a climb down is not political suicide. At worst you piss off half the electorate. the conservatives win because they're not the party that dragged us out of Europe. The threat of a UK breakup is significantly reduced. Whoever takes over as PM gets a better run at it. The Labour Party may stop imploding. Financial stability returns and confidence comes back.

If we can go to war based on outright lies, we can reverse this debacle.

@ MSP quite right but their response is a little different to I imagine the man baby and his mates were expecting i.e. no negotiations before Art 50 is triggered etc which must be a disappointment to them.

I'm a solicitor in a small rural practice in mid wales and I was talking to one of my predominantly farming client's yesterday who is now regretting his decision. I asked him would he want me to purchase a farm for him without undertaking all the normal due diligence (searches enquires etc) so he could take an informed view as to whether or not to proceed with the matter to which his response was of course not and then he seemed to be unable to give me an answer as to why he had voted to leave without there having been some sort of due diligence in place at to what the consequences would be........

I asked him would he want me to purchase a farm for him without undertaking all the normal due diligence

this is the UK we don't read the manual !! 😳

Other than the hard line fascists with zero power like Farage, I don't think any of the politicians really want brexit. Given how close the vote was, a climb down is not political suicide. At worst you piss off half the electorate. the conservatives win because they're not the party that dragged us out of Europe. The threat of a UK breakup is significantly reduced. Whoever takes over as PM gets a better run at it. The Labour Party may stop imploding. Financial stability returns and confidence comes back.

If we can go to war based on outright lies, we can reverse this debacle.

No leaders to do this until September (unless you're thinking of the Queen). So I fear this may be whistling in the dark.

No leaders to do this until September (unless you're thinking of the Queen). So I fear this may be whistling in the dark.

Initial hysteria will have calmed by then. The only real risk of a climbdown is sending voters towards UKIP.

Good. Get the nutters out of the Tory party and let them join UKIP. This would allow a Tory PM to act without pressure from his Euro-sceptic right wing. You could argue the same for the Labour party. I reckon the country is better served by having relatively cohesive parties so that the electorate knows what they are voting for.

Good. Get the nutters out of the Tory party and let them join UKIP. This would allow a Tory PM to act without pressure from his Euro-sceptic right wing.

Unlike the last few who have slipped out of both parties forcing a by election might not be a bad idea for some of them.

Because to reach their goal of a corporatist neo-liberal nirvana,

which is the same goal as the EU, so make your mind up as to which you want - why is neo-liberal under the EU OK, but it's not OK under a UK government?

the fact that the living embodiment of the establishment (Boris and IDS) posed as an anti-establishment vote and got away with it is incredible enough (seriously - HOW stupid and gullible?)

THIS.

Begs **** belief..

[quote=grantway ]Lol everything is short term. To what is actually going to happen is basically nothing

I know everybody else has already clobbered you, but let's just address this one properly: I presume you've not noticed the credit agencies downrating us, giving us a negative forecast and predicting lower growth? All that stuff is at least medium if not long term predictions.

Do you know better than the experts, or is it that you've "had enough of experts"? Whilst we're at it, what's your feeling about homeopathy?

Don't worry another unlikely hero might come to the rescue - Hunt is calling for a second vote!!!

How about aligning with dear old Jeremy.

This debate does throw up some wonderfully ironic bed fellows. 😉

Meanwhile

26 April - [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-junior-doctors-strike-contract-last-job-in-politics-nhs-health-secretary-a7001071.html ]Jeremy Hunt has said that being Health Secretary is likely to be his last big job in politics[/url]

28 June - [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-running-conservative-party-leader-second-eu-referendum-brexit-vote-a7106836.html ]Jeremy Hunt seriously considering running in Tory leadership race[/url]

Edit: beaten to it by teamhurtmore, good to see someone validating it, I did wonder if I actually just dreamt it, in a very, very bad dream

Ah good, Jeremy Hunt. That should ensure the negotiations go swimmingly. 😯

Whilst we're at it, what's your feeling about homeopathy?

I think other EU members will be keen to take advantage of the opportunities left to them UK leaving and take what they can from the situation before the UK realizes what its lost.

Also foreign investors are probably lining up to pick anything worthwhile that is left of the ruined industry and workforce, they will likely be waiting till the country is on its knees, desperate and will gladly accept any offer on almost any terms.

no public healthcare and McAcadmeys ahoy?

yay for democracy freedom and getting England Back.

It's completely unnatural. The only acceptable relationship is between two people of opposite sex!!!

No, you fool - homo-apathy means you are not bothered one way or the other by the gays.

Jesus wept have we reached the point where the lying shyster Hunt s the best option

the dearth of talent at the nations disposal is matched only by the football teams - no offence Cymru

Your one of them paediatricians aren't you Graham? You can always tell

[img] [/img]
(via [url=

I no longer believe anything I read on the side of a bus.

Don't worry another unlikely hero might come to the rescue - Hunt is calling for a second vote!!!

How about aligning with dear old Jeremy.

A national unity party comprising the Tory left and Labour right anyone?

You could even let the LDs join.

was mooted on Newsnight last night, but with no on the ground party members itd be useless

grantway - Member

Lol everything is short term. To what is actually going to happen is basically nothing
We are all to in twinned and that's why everything is inverted commas short time worded.
The U.K. Is structurally sound and the banks have been constantly tested since of their collapse.
Against a fragile European economy full of nearly all members in debt. Just give up all the speculation and the what if's
Nothing is going to happen without hurting the other and the U.K. Economy is singly stronger and we can lower
our interest rates and also print new money, in Europe you cannot do that but take out a further loan.

I have spent a lot of time since Thursday metaphorically and actually shaking my head and wondering how this whole mess ever happened.

Now I am starting to see......

debate on bbc parliament just now from the eu parliament about all this. you'll be able to rewind on iplayer, just started watching myself.

Give us the bullet points joseph - not sure I can bring myself to watch that

seems like its a parade of 700 angry people telling Farage to $£$" off!

<applauds>

A national unity party comprising the Tory left and Labour right anyone?

You could even let the LDs join.

seems like its a parade of 700 angry people telling Farage to $£$" off!

aracer - Member
Give us the bullet points joseph - not sure I can bring myself to watch that

Starting off on very cordial terms.

really? Did you hear Guy Verhofstadt?

[quote=hot_fiat ]seems like its a parade of 700 angry people telling Farage to $£$" off!
<applauds>

[quote=aracer ][s]not sure I can bring myself to watch that[/s]

Please tell me Nige is there (for once in his life)

Front and centre, next to Junker's desk.

aracer - Member

Please tell me Nige is there (for once in his life)

This is tricky - I really don't like Juncker, but it's hard not to enjoy this

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more toe curling being English in Europe....

[img] [/img]

Junker has asked Farage what he's doing in the debate, loving every minute I'd say 😀

For anyone that doubted our need to leave see these words from Junker about his European Superstate Project

The British vote has cut off one of our wings, but we are still flying. It's a flight towards a clear objective. Our journey continues. Though we slowed down a bit, we must proceed to our renewed objectives."

Interesting:

The union of 27 will continue [b]if[/b] the UK decides to leave

Farage speaking now, live on Sky

jambalaya - Member
Farage speaking now, live on Sky

jambalaya - Member

Farage speaking now, live on Sky

Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post

Jamby with the tissues out.

Farage speaking now, live on Sky

So, once the UK has unravelled and England and Wales plough their lonely furrow and that nice Mr Trump is in the White House and has built his wall perhaps we can use our special relationship to create a new "Union of Insular States". Them, us and North Korea.

I have to admit I've never watched the EU parliament before. Their voting system is a lot more efficient than ours isn't it?

...though it's a good job given how many individual votes they have on every little sentence

Was he really counting those manually and then checking the result electronically?

Junker again showing how anti-democratic he is, threatening Farage that he won't be applauding in the EU chamber again. Junker just doesn't undertsand democracy at all, Farage is elected and is entitied to sit until that point we leave the EU

I have to admit I've never watched the EU parliament before. Their voting system is a lot more efficient than

The voting system isn't relevant as they don't have the power to draft or propse legislation

jambalaya - Member
Junker again showing how anti-democratic he is, threatening Farage that he won't be applauding in the EU chamber again. Junker just doesn't undertsand democracy at all, Farage is elected and is entitied to sit until that point we leave the EU

😕

The voting system isn't relevant as they don't have the power to draft or propse legislation

[quote=jambalaya ]Junker again showing how anti-democratic he is, threatening Farage that he won't be applauding in the EU chamber again. Junker just doesn't undertsand democracy at all, Farage is elected and is entitied to sit until that point we leave the EU

I presume he was just referring to his attendance record

The voting system isn't relevant as they don't have the power to draft or propse legislation

Which is (in practice) different to Westminster in what way?

[quote=hot_fiat ]Was he really counting those manually and then checking the result electronically?

From what I could work out he was only calling an electronic vote on many things when the result of the show of hands wasn't clear. Though that was only on the amendments - if the amendment didn't pass he took an electronic vote on the original text which then passed and effectively made the show of hands irrelevant.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more toe curling being English in Europe..

guy verhofstadt getting tore right in. bravo! 🙂

[quote=pondo ]Farage certainly knows a thing or two about how to get a good deal out of our trading partners.

I'm thinking (hoping) that they know Farage is an irrelevance, and some of them might even realise that most British people watching (I have to assume that the vast majority are Remainers) were also enjoying them ripping into him.

gabriele zimmer german left, Eu needs to show solidarity with the people of scotland and ireland.

Farage is utter utter scum.

Can we ease off on the personal insults please?

You might not agree with jamba, but his point of view is still relevant and interesting.

What do we all think of this article? Seems well thought out to me.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wont-really-happen-second-referendum-markets-value-housing-pound-a7106996.html

seosamh77 - Member - Quote
Farage is utter utter scum.

The sight of a sweaty, smug, drunk Farage delivering a victory speech on Friday morning is one of the most sickening sights I've seen. Dark days when a cretin like him is validated.

molgrips - It's the sort of thing many of us have been saying on here since Friday - and I'm yet to see anything to contradict those suggestions.

The British vote has cut off one of our wings, but we are still flying. It's a flight towards a clear objective. Our journey continues. Though we slowed down a bit, we must proceed to our renewed objectives."

[img] [/img]
"Its alright lads, don't panic, we're still flying"

Le Pen now. yay, she's all for it. This is who you're allies are now folks, it's ****ing grim.

Can we ease off on the personal insults please?

You might not agree with jamba, but his point of view is still relevant and interesting.

This is the problem with the swear filter, it doesn't accurately portray the amount of characters typed. My insult was aimed at Farage, not Jamba. As much as I completely disagree with his viewpoint, he has every right to communicate it.

True that, we have bombed ourselves.

Article is spot on and many were saying leaving the EU was technically impossible months ago.

Diane Dods DUP now, guess one positive, is at least these people will stop embarrassing us in the Eu parliament now.... 😕

seosamh77 - Member

Diane Dods DUP now, a trio of **** if complete, guess one positive, is at least these people will stop embarrassing us in the Eu parliament now....

Based on the lack of quality of politicians just now, I think you will be seeing a few on lampies near you soon enough. (Not doing a Mussolini)

Can we ease off on the personal insults please?

You might not agree with jamba, but his point of view is still relevant and interesting.

"Relevant and interesting".

Are you conducting some kind of psychological research?

Jamba's mask is actually starting to slip a bit on this thread - so personally I am all for a bit, no make that a lot, more.

He's pretty stoic, but I reckon another fifty or so pages and he'll end up with an expletive-filled, carpet-chewing, full-on fascist rant and threats of "you'll be first against the wall when we get in".

Molgrips: yep largely agree that article describes what is going on behind the scenes. Describing BoJo as "Churchillian" is, perhaps, a step too far for my imagination. Blackadder-like (series 1) is possibly a better simile.

Describing BoJo as "Churchillian"

Rhymes with "Reptillian".

Makes you think.

Farage in EU parliament:

Nigel Farage has told a session of the European Parliament that "the little people" had rejected "big politics" in order "to get their country back".

He said the UK now offered "a beacon of hope" across Europe for other countries that wanted to leave the EU.

What an odious turd.

Are you conducting some kind of psychological research?

No, I just find considered viewpoints that oppose my own to be useful and interesting.

If Brexit has taught us anything it should be to listen to the other side instead of just insulting them and trying to shut them down.

@molgrips it's an interesting article, similar to the one in the washington post...and once again the question it leaves is..but what of democracy?

What of it?

Always a tremendously flawed system. The only reason it's in use is that the other systems so far invented are worse. It's not an ideal, just a messy compromise.

And the referendum was advisory all along. That is, to show the government what the public wanted. The government has to take it seriously but it does not HAVE to do it. That is why we have elected representatives. Democratically so.

Have left the BBC Parliament feed running in the background. Not something I usually have on. Its quite interesting listening to them debate properly and amicably outside the usual pantomime of PMQs. I'd also not appreciated how awesome Bercow is as Speaker. It will be interesting to follow how they deal with the matter.

[quote=lazybike ]but what of democracy?

Which democracy? The one some people think they have (but I voted for...) or the one we actually have. Legally and constitutionally, people just voted in a giant opinion poll.

Clearly it would have been possible to make the referendum legally binding, as that's what they did with the 2011 AV one - though in that case there were mainstream politicians who actually wanted to win it.

Yep. It has as much legal validity as that petition for a second referendum.

But both those things can put pressure on MPs to do what they're told rather than acting with conscience in the interests of their constituents.