[Closed] End Halal petition

Only if all animal slaughter is banned as none of them are actually that good.

Exactly. If cruelty is the reason, then stricter regulations of battery farmed chickens (how they dispose of cockerel chicks, the conditions they're kept in etc) and pigs etc is a far more pressing concern imho than whether they have their head cut off at the end.

Halal, is meat you are looking for?

Are you vegetarian op?
Edit. Do you even know what hallal/kosher meat means?

Ooooh, potential for some thinly veiled xenophobia coupled with animal rights and an opportunity for vegan virtue signalling.

At least 10 pages...

I’m proudly xenophobic.

After watching the documentary with that Ripley lady, who wouldn’t be?

I’m proudly xenophobic.

Me too. She frightens the bejeebus out of me.

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[i]I’m proudly xenophobic. [/i]

I'm zenophobic.

Bloody philosophers, coming over here, maintaining our motorbikes.

This has the potential to be great...we already have some 'whataboutery' in the 3rd post in...

...[i]what about battery farming?[/i]...

Are people going to be achingly PC and refuse to criticise because religion?...we've got people already questioning the the OP's motivation...

How about separating religion from food processing and just accepting that its a cruel and outdated process?...there, that wasnt difficult was it?

Shall we start a petition on banning kosher also, which to all intents and purposes instructs the same slaughter as halal?

No I thought not...

How about separating religion from food processing and just accepting that its a cruel and outdated process?...there, that wasnt difficult was it?

I agree, I'd like to see religion separated from everything, education, the house of lords and so on

Oh it's s halal & kosher slaughter petition...did the OP read it before posting the title to this thread?
Fine as long as he's not a Labour member, obvs!

Are people going to be achingly PC and refuse to criticise because religion?...we've got people already questioning the the OP's motivation...

Its great to see the same meateaters care about animal welfare*. I am sure its just co incidence that they only complain about Muslim cruelty and no other animal welfare issue and I am sure there is no boas there at all

I mean the list of animal rights issue they bring up is endless**
Anyway lets just stick to boiling lobsters alive as well that obviously not cruel neither is foi grass or veal or oh whats the point its not really about animal welfare is it.
* clearly if you have not joined in you are a PC do gooder Muslim loving traitor
** By endless I mean the same one endlessly

I'm going with yes. Even the most vocal, ardent atheists usually don't dare criticise Islam through fear of being branded racist.

You do know that despite the OPs deliberately provocative/islamophobic title that it's a halal & kosher petition?

Never mind, bindun

Jamie - Member
I’m proudly xenophobic.

After watching the documentary with that Ripley lady, who wouldn’t be?

What's Sigourney Weaver got to do with this?

[i]it's a halal & kosher petition? [/i]

which highlights the OP's motives for posting even more, in my view.

Shall we start a petition on banning kosher also, which to all intents and purposes instructs the same slaughter as halal?

I dont see why not.

As is said, separate religion from food processing, its ancient, barbaric and unnecessary regardless of the religion.

happy to have ALL slaughter abandoned. Regardless of whether it's Halal Kosher or anything else.

what about battery farming?..

They don't have any space and are piled on top of each other... very cruel

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Ban [i]non-stun[/i] Halal slaughter? Okay.

Ban [i]all[/i] Halal slaughter? Only if we ban all slaughter.

Mmmmm halal bacon.

Even the most vocal, ardent atheists usually don't dare criticise Islam through fear of being branded racist.

I'll happily criticise Islam, and Christianity and other religious groups.

Back on topic though, as above I agree non religious slaughter isn't a particularly nice way to go either.

Yours sincerely,
Atheist

Obviously, the real monsters in this situation are Ant and Dec.

We're forced to witness a yearly ritual of animals consumed alive or having their winkies and bumholes chopped off and eaten entirely for the amusement of the masses.

Other animals are cruelly forced to share confined spaces with such horrors as Anthony Worral Thompson or Edwina Currie.

It's truly barbaric. Someone should start a petition or something.

[i]Never, never criticize Muslims; only, only Christians. And Jews a little bit.[/i]

Alan Partridge

Eating meat is normal.

But if we do then humane (as possible, in the context of killing things) farming and slaughter houses must be the normal too.

Any inhumane practices must be stopped. Religious or not. So end Halal too. Using those arguments it's not xenophobic.

It's also ****ing bonkers. Because no god exists.

Whataboutery the dairy industry? Can we add that to the list too?

Are you vegetarian op?
Edit. Do you even know what hallal/kosher meat means?

No, Yes

it's a halal & kosher petition?

which highlights the OP's motives for posting even more, in my view.

just highlights that I rushed the title, my bad 🙁

Eating meat is normal.

Yup, but becoming increasingly unsustainable

Any of you actually been in an abattoir?
Anyone seen the queues of animals waiting to die, knowing that they're going to die?
I have, it's horrible.
Whether the animal is killed by a bolt in the head, electric shock or having its throat slit, the end result is the same, dead animal, an animal that most likely lived a pretty shitty existence, funny how that's not such a big deal. People get all up in arms about how animals are killed, but pay absolutely no mind to how those animals live.

You could go to any abattoir and get images and videos of any of the processes in there and make a compelling argument for banning it. The problem is not the method of execution, it's the professional standards by which much of the industry runs and the piss poor regulation of many abattoirs.

I was in Africa once, during Eid, the guesthouse we were staying at had a goat that they had reared specially for that years celebrations. I witnessed the slaughter, done to strict halal standards. It was the quickest, cleanest death i'd seen, the goat never saw it coming and died almost instantly.

But yeah, I'm just a virtue signalling snowflake vegan ****, what the **** do I know.

Well that didn't take long.
I realise that this can be (and definitely is round here) a controversial topic, but the issue should begin and end with animal welfare.
Its not a question of "is all slaughter bad" but "should religious people be allowed legal exemption from following animal welfare laws".

You can certainly complain that all animal slaughter is barbaric or cruel, and campaign for legislation and welfare to be improved, but what is the point of that while exemptions for religious reasons continue to exist?

You can also claim that this is more about tribal prejudice than animal welfare. But please consider the possibility that some people are capable of seeing a need to treat animals more humanely (as defined in law) without having any particular concern over the creed, racial heritage, height, weight, colour (etc.) of the perpetrator.

Never go full STW.

edit PS .. I have been to an abattoir, it was not as described above, I left feeling hungry.
But not for tripe. Never tripe. I've seen things.

Eating meat is normal.

Plenty of things that were once seen as normal are now considered to be barbaric.

never saw it coming and died almost instantly.

that's how I want to go...

Whatevs, all religious people are off the ****ing map and we only eat RSPCA* pork now anyway.

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Marks for capital letters and ranty SPEELING MISTAKS, and bonus points for use of the word 'christian' to justify racism and fear of brown people.

* yes, I know it's still kinder [i]not[/i] to kill animals.

Yup, but becoming increasingly unsustainable

Whataboutery the Soylent Green option, sustainable as long as there are people?

achingly

Just, like, no.

that's how I want to go...

unlike the passengers on your bus?

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Wasn't there some new legislation recently about cctv in slaughterhouses? Ah yes found it-
[url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40895049 [/url]
A small step but one that I welcome.
No idea if this would cover animals slaughtered by kosher/halal methods though.
Seems the British Veterinary Association aren't that happy with the sharp rise in halal/kosher slaughter either
[url] https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/bva-concern-at-sharp-rise-in-slaughter-without-stunning/ [/url]

kayla1 - Member
Whatevs, all religious people are off the **** map and we only eat RSPCA* pork now anyway.

You do know that pigs are the easiest to rear in high intensity units, don't you?? Not the best of animals to choose to farm on your moral high-ground 😉

And RSPCA pork has had a "better" life than the minimum legal requirement, but it doesn't mean it's had a great life or is free range / lives outside / does natural piggy stuff!

Shall we start a petition on banning kosher also

yip, seems fair enough to me. Given that it can take up to 15 mins for a cow to bleed to death it seems bizarre that we let this happen all in the name of religious freedom. Same can be said for circumcision but that's another thread.

How about a Halal versus Kosher competition instead? Who can slaughter the mostest the quickestest!

I once argued with a vegetarian friend that she was cruel for wanting animals to be raised in nice environments. It's pure evil when you think about it.

Chicken raised in battery farm = sad and wants to die. It will see death as sweet relief.

Chicken raised free range = loves life and to feel the wind through its feathers. You're going to take that away, you sick bastards.

*some of the above may not be true.

I had Quorn nuggets for tea last night, they're bloody marvellous.

I've been to an abattoir too, not since I was only about 7 though, my dad took me when he was there getting stock for the butchers shop. It didn't have any major effect on me.

My opinion is that as long as it's controlled and not deliberately cruel then it's ok. Far better than bull fighting, and better than some of the ends the mass produced turkeys get in the run up to christmas.

When are we going to ban lions from chasing their food because it puts undue stress on them? It's their own fault at the end of the day, they shouldn't be so tasty.

You do know that pigs are the easiest to rear in high intensity units, don't you?? Not the best of animals to choose to farm on your moral high-ground

And RSPCA pork has had a "better" life than the minimum legal requirement, but it doesn't mean it's had a great life or is free range / lives outside / does natural piggy stuff!

Yes, I know, which is why we try to buy free range/outdoor/organic stuff where possible and only buy RSPCA- if we can't get either we don't buy meat. I did acknowledge that it's still not as kind to the animal as not eating it, but you didn't choose to quote [i]that[/i] bit, just the bit you could preach about 😆

Let me get this straight in my head, OP. You eat dead animals and are quite happy for someone else to rear, kill and butcher them for you, but you're really concerned about their welfare, but only when there's a religious aspect that you don't fully understand?
What other aspects of the meat industry do you find uncomfortable?

I would take living a nice life for a few years over spending a bad time dying for 10 minutes.

Assuming all the people who are against some of the killing methods are going out of their way to ensure the meat they are eating is produced by the absolute best farming methods (Where do you source your meat from Turnerguy?)

If not then maybe concentrate on that first...

The solution....?

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😆

I'll happily criticise Islam, and Christianity and other religious groups

Especially those radicalised budhist f***ers

You do know that despite the OPs deliberately provocative/islamophobic title that it's a halal & kosher petition?

So that’s happened to Badger.

but only when there's a religious aspect that you don't fully understand?

To be fair to the OP, when I hear halal I don't knowingly think of it in any religious or cultural context, it's just a word to describe the murder of animals by slitting their throats and letting them bleed to death. Maybe they should remove "halal" and "kosher" from the petition and just call the process what it is.

I notice that the BVA article does this, just calls it "slaughter without stunning".

but you're really concerned about their welfare

Well at least the OP is thinking about some aspects of animal welfare. Hopefully it's the first step.

Thread highlights, so far...

Not the best of animals to choose to farm on your moral high-ground

It's their own fault at the end of the day, they shouldn't be so tasty.

🙂

I would take living a nice life for a few years over spending a bad time dying for 10 minutes.

Odds are you'll probably spend more than 10 minutes dying badly as a human. Are you human?

So that’s happened to Badger.

Where's Bodger?

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I would take living a nice life for a few years

Most of the meat available is from animals that were less than a year old when slaughtered. If you want beef that's from older beasts then Highland and some other rare breeds take longer to bulk up than the more modern stuff.

The pig club pigs here are no more than 8 months old when they go for slaughter. Boar weaners aren't kept too long as the meat taints when the testosterone kicks in.

Surely giraffe burgers should be on some kind of baguette?

The neck looks to be quite thin so could be sliced horizontally to give a pre-shaped burger type of thing that fits in a bap quite nicely.

I would've thought...

Late edit : Burger on the bone!

Tbf; I’ve seen a few different ways of dying (human variety) and I don’t think bleeding to death is that bad on the scale of ‘ways to go’. I should imagine that when done properly and both carotids are severed, the creature is rendered unconscious almost immediately, and with very little pain, so long as the blade is sufficiently sharp. Stunning can go horribly wrong as well; voltages can be insufficient to render unconsciousness, bolt guns can miss brain stems. I’d take a razor sharp blade over electrocution any day, having experienced non fatal incidents of both, by accident.

Whether the animal is killed by a bolt in the head, electric shock or having its throat slit, the end result is the same, dead animal,

pigs are gassed in Nitrogen, as a method it has advocates as a method for death penalty countries and euthanasia http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7183957.stm

My understanding is that most halal slaughter is pre-stunned. Can someone explain what difference there is for the animal, compared with non-halal slaughter?

Who'd have thought that badger & giraffe have the same calorific value!?

Who'd have thought that badger & giraffe have the same calorific value!?

You'd think giraffe would be much higher.

According to: [url= https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/08/what-does-halal-method-animal-slaughter-involve ]This[/url]

88% of halal animals are stunned prior to slaughter.

I am against any sort of exception for animal rights legislation for religious reasons but equally don't believe it should be banned if those rights are respected.

I am also concerned with how an animal has lived - you can be certain that the majority of people who froth about accidentally eating halal were not worried that their chicken might have been kept for its miserable 40 day existence in a packed, dark shed.

I beat an owl to death once.

True story.

I beat an owl to death once.

Twoo story.

Twit 😉

I was in Africa once, during Eid, the guesthouse we were staying at had a goat that they had reared specially for that years celebrations. I witnessed the slaughter, done to strict halal standards. It was the quickest, cleanest death i'd seen, the goat never saw it coming and died almost instantly.

Thats a sweet story...but its just one goat...the reality of a Halal/neck slitting slaughterhouse can be seen here:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=703_1309045039

Some highlights (for those that dont want to see it) include animals queuing for their death like in a conventional slaughterhouse, whining and groaning as they bleed to death, tracheas/windpipes flapping around in the gaping neck wounnd as they gasp for breath while bleeding out, some pre-stunning going on but not all the time, live (unstunned) goats, sheep and cows hanging upside down by one leg while they too wait for the neck slitting...watching the video no it isnt 'instant' like a lot of deluded people on here claim.

With an increasing demand for Halal meat do people really think an individual animal is raised with care and then magnificently executed by some kind of artisan in the craft?!...lol, watch the video, Halal is big business and with that comes 'efficiency'...they run just like a non-Halal slaughterhouse, a conveyer belt setup, animals queuing, blood everywhere, time concerns above animal welfare etc...the lengths some will go to in order to defend outdated religious practices is gobsmacking....in the style of whataboutery can we do female genital mutilation next?...i'm sure some idiot on here will bend over backwards to defend that too.

So is animal cruelty only a bad thing when it provides a convenient excuse to stick it to the foreigners?

No one should be allowed to eat any animal they haven't killed themselves. That should sort it.

Deviant.
A video of some pretty piss poor slaughtering is not an argument for banning all halal slaughter. It is an argument for banning piss poor animal slaughter, or animal slaughter full stop.

Do you want me to find and then post on here some videos of piss poor non-halal slaughter?

.in the style of whataboutery can we do female genital mutilation next?.

what about eunuchs?

sexist.

some abattoirs are bad, some of those will be halal. In Britain we have comparatively high welfare standards and all slaughterhouses should meet (ideally exceed) those standards. It makes no difference if the person wielding the knife whispers a prayer in the lamb's ear first.

On only eating what you kill, [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethical-Carnivore-Year-Killing-Eat/dp/1472938399 ]this[/url] was quite good

Do you want me to find and then post on here some videos of piss poor non-halal slaughter?

Easy enough to find i'm sure, there have been plenty of documentaries over the years about crap slaughterhouses...your quaint story about an African guesthouse gave an inaccurate idea that Halal slaughter is done to individual animals in a quick manner with no suffering...i merely pointed out that across europe and in this country Halal meat is now big business and with that has come the ways of conventional slaughterhouses...queues of animals, belt fed animals, hanging animals etc...i'm more than happy for camera crews to go into any slaughterhouse and shut them down for poor practices...religion doesnt come into this, some on here really arent getting it...find the most humane way to kill said animals, speak to vets, scientists, animal welfare officers etc to come up with the method and do that...its simple really, religion and/or tradition shouldnt come into it.

Re. the suggestion that people should have to kill animals by their own hand for meat, agree totally...my father for one freely admits he'd go vegetarian if he had to kill the animal and i think lots of others would too.

No one should be allowed to eat any animal they haven't killed themselves. That should sort it.

Only if vegetarians are only allowed to eat what they grow themselves.

Fair's fair.

Forced Rhubarb is just wrong.

End rhubarb slavery.

This place has turned very right-wing of late.

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#prayforthevegetables.

Deviant, it wasn't a quaint story, it was used to illustrate my point (too subtly, obviously) that halal isn't the problem, mass slaughter is the problem, whether halal or not.

Halal meat is now big business and with that has come the ways of conventional slaughterhouses...queues of animals, belt fed animals, hanging animals etc..

Your response suggests you agree with me...