[Closed] Encouraging breast feeding

We had similar. Number one was a bugger, but after 8 or so days of the kind of heartache you're going through it just clicked.

Keep at it. She's doing well.

But if she wants to stop, that's fine too.

I can only repeat what Pook said. I'm currently sat up with my 15 week old twins, while my wife gets some much needed sleep. They were 8 weeks early and in hospital for 6 weeks with one of that being IV fed and the other 5 by naso-gastric tube. Took a while for breastfeeding to click when we got home and it was a bit fraught and sleepless for a while, but we're into a sort of routine now. When it works it works (and is so much easier than bottles) but it will take some perseverance to get there and the best thing you can do is be as supportive as you can but also realise that it's really up to your wife on what she does so respect and be supportive of any decisions she makes.

Too much to type here and too personal. If you want my similar experience / opinion, email in profile and I'll give you my phone number so we can speak.

We has a hell of a time with both of ours. First was pretending to suckle and had to go back in after a few days as he dropped to just over 4lbs from 7.5. On to formula after days of trying by my Mrs. She had all that you are going through, not helped by all the 'Breast is best!' posters! But once she made the decision to enjoy him rather than kill herself trying everything got better on the formula (plus I got to do the nighttime feeds).

He's now eight and one of the sharpest in his year. 75th percentile too in height.

Second one was the opposite except that my Mrs couldn't produce enough for him so had to top up with formula. He was soon on just formula and drinking a vast amount!

98th percentile now in height and weight, 4 years old, and the size of some of his brothers friends! Sharp as a tack too.

So, they will be fine on formula, most of us born in the 70s were raised on it. But it is super super hard at the beginning with all the propaganda that makes you both feel terrible.

All you can do is be there to support her. Logic doesn't come into it as it's an extremely difficult and emotive subject.

Best of luck to you both, you'll get through it, but try not to worry and enjoy your new arrival if you can.

Support and encourage her to keep at it but ultimately do what you think is best. She will be knackered and emotional/irrational and feeling like it's all gone wrong. Not the perfect start but he's with you and you can build on that. As much skin to skin contact as possible to help bonding between all three of you. If the breast feeding comes then great, if not it is not the end of the world. It took my wife a few days with both of ours for them to really take to it. Especially the first.
Congratulations by the way. Whatever you think, you're doing great.

@sammy c, I don't really want to get in to an argument about it here, but it's not propaganda that breast is best, there's a massive amount of medical research which backs it up. This doesn't mean you hsve to breast feed though, the decision is entirely personal.

i do agree that sometimes the pro breast lobby can be unnecessarily militant though.

Alex, that sounds awful. It's not 'too much' for the forum at all.

Mrs Pz is expecting our first, and we're neither of us at the ideal age, so I'm bracing myself for all sorts of problems.

Pook has it right - it'll all work out in the end. I can't imagine what I would (or will?) do to console my OH in the same circs. Not sure there's a right route to take, any more than there's a wrong route....

Hang in there. It'll be ok, and you'll both be great.

We are currently at 5 months with our first and had a really hard time breast feeding for the first few weeks breast feeding. Little fella had a tongue tie, and mum was bed bound for two weeks in hospital after a tough birth/ huge blood pressure and back probs.
we had a combination of tube feeding, bottle feeding, and breast feeding. But the breast feeding was really tough.

It's loads better now but still do a bottle or two each day of formula. Growth is spot on and doing great.

Stick at it, but don't think it's the be all and end all, it isn't at all. Getting them fed is important, but if it's from formula, or expressed milk, that's fine.

Congratulations!!! 8)

As long as the baby is fed it doesnt matter how its done.
Theres no right / wrong.. You'll get more sleep if your wife feeds the baby. 😉
The roller coaster of parenthood as already done one lap...

keep at it. She's doing well.
But if she wants to stop, that's fine too.

This.

i do agree that sometimes the pro breast lobby can be unnecessarily militant though.

And this.

So, they will be fine on formula, most of us born in the 70s were raised on it. But it is super super hard at the beginning with all the propaganda that makes you both feel terrible.

And if it comes to it this too.

Whatever you think, you're doing great.

But most of all that^^.

Congratulations!

Thanks guys, appreciated.

Decided to let her sleep, instead of waking her hub to the 11.30 expression.

This stuff is pretty hardcore.

Is she in touch with the local Breast Feeding Network group? If not then that would be a massive first step. My wife had problems (actually it looked like her nipple was hanging off) because she got shown totally the wrong technique in the hospital, either that or the drugs from the c-section made that sole explanation rather difficult to follow. Once the 'rep' came round though she got sorted and never looked back.

The main thing though is that whilst you can help her as much as possible, if it REALLY gets too much then you need to talk sense into her, not easy when shes gonna be an utter mess of residual hormones from the pregnancy and the forthcoming tsunami of repressed hormones get released (including some nice new post partum varieties). Good luck with it, its not easy on either of you when there are problems but there is always someone out there who has been through the wringer and can help you both through.

Babies are designed to survive the first few days with very little milk in terms of volume so try not to worry

Your Wife's milk may take 3-4 days to 'come in' (longer if she has had a cesarean section)so don't worry.
Keeping up with the child's feeding and regular expressing (every 3 hours if she can) - this includes expressing after the baby has fed at the breast are very important in the first few days as the ultimate physiology of breast in terms of its ability to produce milk is determined by this regular stimulation.

Your baby's attempts at feeding may involve several hours at a time at the breast (known as cluster feeding) rather than the more expected feed for 20-30 mins then sleep for 2-3 hours this can obviously be extremely draining for Mum and Dad.

If you are giving bottle feeds ensure the teat has has the correct flow (mimicking that of the breast)if the flow is to fast it can jepordise the ultimate success of establishing breast feeding.
You(Dad)can bottle feed Mums expressed milk so she can sleep.

Tell people who want to visit you straight away to wait a week or longer. Time spent entertaining is cumulatively draining save your wifes and your own energy.
Get friends and family to cook for you, bring food, look after other kids

We knew that Mrs TT would not be able to breastfeed beyond the 1st week. Between donated breastmilk (yes, support groups managed through NICUs etc) and formula, we managed to raise a now-very-healthy-and-well-developed 5 year old.
She hasn't failed as a woman, but things are not at their most logical for her right now. Be supportive, be positive and try to relax. With formula at least it's easier for you to help with feeding. I am convinced I bonded so much better with my daughter because I didn't just hand her off every time she needed feeding.
The breastfeeding mafia are often harsh, but certain words do shut them up pretty quickly, especially when said very directly.

Hi guys 🙂

11 weeks in with our first here. Christ on a bike it's been an absolute ballache if I'm honest. I've just been in the supporting role and found it tough so God knows what our other halves are going through.

Please dont for a min let your good lady feel like a failure. The very fact you've got so far proves that your both on the right track. There's a lot of pro boobie stuff and my Mrs is hanging on there. It is trying and very difficult at times. Out of our nct group there are three out of 9 that carried on breastfeeding after 2-3 weeks. Its that tough. However give it a go but dont be upset if it doesn't work out.

If you've been through the mill as it sounds just take the next 2 weeks to look after each other.

Some folks make it look easy. If it makes you feel better were in the ones that aren't. 🙂

Lots of chocolate also helped

We're 5 months in with ours too. As above, those were hard hard days to start with. My wife had a hell of a time getting the breast feeding established. It got easier but it took 3 months and much suffering.

There are very good local breast feeding support drop in clinics around where we live. They were invaluable for my wife during the early stages.

I don't think anyone would deny that breast feeding is best, however the pressure put on women is unbelievable.

Mrs FD found it hard, and never really got on with it, I don't think the pressure in hospital helped one bit in hospital. We ended using a pump, which meant I could help with feeds.

Eventually it finally clicked, but only when all the pressure had gone, but at that point Jnr FD had got used to a teat.

IMO Mum has enough on her plate with a new baby, without being made to feel inadequate too.

Completely agree FunkyDunc. No one denies it would be preferable but people should be supported in this decision and allowed to choose not to without being made to feel a failure if they don't.

Congratulations, and this:

As long as the baby is fed it doesnt matter how its done.

Mine were both bottle-fed, and the eldest is now 15 and taller than her mother...

Op, let your wife make her decision and stick to your guns. Parents instincts are best and mother is just as important as baby. It was a shock for me all these do-gooders with their own agendas sticking their noses in and giving disapproving looks at every turn. It really made my wife feel like a crap mother before she even started. There are so many aspects of bringing up a baby that influence its health and wellbeing, breast feeding is just one very very tiny element and despite the 'evidence' your baby will thrive whether you decide to breast feed or bottle feed. It really doesn't matter. When your baby is 18yo no scientist in the world will be able to tell if they were breast or bottle fed. The benefit to your baby and the mother of stress free successful feeding, wether it be bottle or breast, will be of far more importance to both. My wife too struggled to breast feed, within 48 hrs of the birth of our first was tearing herself up emotionally at the prospect of the absolute pressure she was feeling to breast feed, obviously amplified at that low point in her own head, in the end, with the help of a brilliant midwife, we convinced her to give it up and bottle feed, and we have two perfectly healthy and thriving girls. They've not grown two heads, or always sick, or somehow mentally challenged or anything. They're just perfect.

Be prepared for more. There will be others ready to tell you how to feed your babies, his to put them to bed, how to bring them up etc. use all this advice as ideas of different things to try, but despite what anyone says, do what works for you. My two girls were completely different from each other, there is no one rule for all despite what anyone tells you.

Good luck. It's the hardest journey you'll undertake, but also the most rewarding.

I said I wouldn't post reams and I won't, the offer is there that I'll give you a call. But a few points.

The breast is best campaign; is true but that doesn't mean formula is bad. The trouble is that any positives have to be played down because of the instant 'well they would say that, wouldn't they?' response.

My wife and I tried everything, we even had a private 1-1 La Leche counsellor that we paid for to give hands on support, alongside the nct and health visitor. None of them got out daughter to latch on and suckle properly. With that level of expert support you'd have thought it would be fixed easily surely? No chance, it doesn't come natural to some babies.

Stress is a major factor, the harder my wife tried the worse it got, she wanted it so badly. And unfortunately the more she tried the more the militant pro lobby made her feel like she was failing.

Eventually it took my wife having massive double mastitis and me nearly swinging my daughter by the legs and hitting her head against the doorframe to make it come to a stop. That was after 3 weeks of misery. This thing that was everything that we had wanted had ruined it all in 20 days. I had to phone my mum and walk out of the house. If your wife feels like a failure, that's nothing to where I was.

When I got back my mum had fixed it. She'd thrown a mum sized strop which is surprising large for a 5 foot grandmother, and the baby was happily gorging on a bottle of formula. The health visitor was packing up to go but had clearly been in tears. Turned out she had thought all along that our daughter would be one of those that didn't take to the breast but because we seemed so determined she'd have let us down by suggesting otherwise. And secondly, the local health authority had her 'on a warning' because too many of her mums were rejecting breast feeding, and it was all target driven shit back then, and she didn't want to lose another.

So militant pro-breast / formula is evil nearly led to the death of my daughter. If I hadn't walked out that day, I can't honestly say I wouldn't have, I was that far at the end of my tether.

DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU THREE AND THE REST CAN **** OFF. THIS SHOULD BE THE HAPPIEST TIME OF YOUR LIFE, NOT PURGATORY.

My second took to the breast overnight, no dramas at all. Same mum, same tits, different baby, different expectations. They're both destroying the kitchen getting breakfast before school as I speak. To look at them and to read their health charts or school reports, you wouldn't know which was a formula baby and which was a breast.

I do still frequently want to murder them though. Tweenagers!

Got to agree with what other have said. Mrs M tried to breast feed and couldn't. She got pretty upset by it for the first few days but then came to the conclusion that it just wasn't going to happen so moved on.

When we spoke to the midwife about it she said that not all women can breast feed due to either baby or shape of breast/nipple and it is more common than most realise (plus she said to just ignore the "militant, feminist, must breast feed or you're a bad mother nazis", her words not mine!, and do what it right for you).

Mini M has been on formula milk from day 1 and she was walking at 7 months so it can't be that bad for them.

Good luck and remember to look after yourself as well as mother and baby.

We struggled with breast feeding our one for about six weeks or so. Wife was absolutely desperate to do the best for the little one, tried pumps etc, but it just wasn't working well. Baby wasn't gaining weight etc.

She felt like poo as a result, as well has having a really difficult birth, being housebound from the c section and so on, it was just too much. She felt like a complete failure.

Eventually my wife broke down in front of one of the health visitors who then said something like "[i]don't worry about breast milk or formula, it doesn't matter - the best thing for your baby is to have a happy mum[/i]". Obvious really, but the way the health person said it clicked something in my wifes head and allowed her to switch completely to formula with no guilt. Baby thrived since, mum happy. Still bastard tired 8 months on though 😀

For such an emotive "battle lines " subject I agree with every one above breast is best in the first world with access to clean water sterilisation equipment and quality formula is a a marginal gain . We as in my wife established breast feeding well but that was due to an unexpectedly long time in hospital post partem and a good deal of support from one very good nurse . We have a happy healthy 4 year old about to start school today.
Breast feeding was hard work and we made our lives fit round it. We had peers on Nct etc for whom for a variety of reasons breast feeding didn't work they too now have happy healthy 4 year olds . Do what works for you take support and advise but not instructions or dictat . Despite what you think in the dark you are doing well and everything will be OK .

Our little boy is 10 weeks now we switched to formula after about a week as he was feeding constantly. he was on 120ml formula about 7 times a day inside 3 weeks.
He is now something like 99.6 percentile for height now. So my poor wife would never have kept up.
Please support your wife as well as you can and just keep reassuring her she is not failing.
If she is finding coping really tough talk to the docs as her hormones will be going mental right now. I couldn't believe quite how much they go haywire.
If he is on formula from early on he will be fine. There are a huge number of people who were formula fed from birth.
And i challenge anyone to be able to pick out those who were breast fed from those who had bottle in a line up

breast feeding doesn't come naturally for some women/children

While it's 'supposedly' how we're inteded to feed our kids in reality there are plenty of reasons as to why in some cases this doesn't work out.

We (well I was there) had a hell of time with it - and in the end decided that the heartache and pain (and the depression that was coming with it) just wasn't worth it and after a couple of weeks went straight to formula (with #1, with #2 he was on formula after about 4 days as we had the same issues).

Your wife (and you) have been through the wringer, don't add to that with the added stress of breast feeding when it's not working out and don't feel that you've failed your kid. Far from it - you're on the right track (actually caring about the sprog) to being an ace dad

Get in touch with a private lactation/feeding consultant. They're usually experienced midwives who've tired of not being able to do their job properly in the NHS, so they offer support independently. My wife was concerned that our younger one (who is now 8 weeks old) was tongue-tied like his elder sister (who the NHS never diagnosed) and for about £50 this lady spent some hours with my wife and the baby watching them feed and helping sort things out.

Such a vast difference to what she had from the overworked midwives in the NHS. The more experienced midwives are too short of time and some of other healthcare professionals don't have a clue (we had some giving us advice which we knew was no longer considered NHS best practice!)

[i]"We had a hell of a time with both of ours. First . . . had to go back in after a few days"[/i] 😯

Agree with all the congratulations and best wishes comments. At the same time, as tough as it can be, don't worry. You probably already know about them, but you and/or your wife might want to give the [url= https://www.laleche.org.uk/ ]La Leche League[/url] a call. They are there to support people with breastfeeding in all circumstances.

I don't need to say that you and your wife should feel no pressure from them, though.

Get in touch with a private lactation/feeding consultant.

We had one of them. Couldn't get the baby to latch on properly and at the same time managed to make my wife feel like it was entirely her fault. Took our money and left us in a worse state than we were. The worst sort of breast is best nazi we encountered.

I'm sure like in all walks of life there are good and bad. By all means try it, but if you get one you don't get on with / doesn't benefit you get them out of there asap. Ours was poisonous.

Dude my wife had lots of problems with this too. The maternity nurses in the hospital for our first baby were pretty militant breast feeders. My wife felt pretty devastated. Its hard enough for women and the hormones and emotions they are feeling after just giving birth as it is. The point reiterated by many is your wife is very far from being alone and not a failure. This article is interesting:

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/breastfeeding-formula-debate-mothers-baby

another:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/24/class-baby-breastfed-life-chances-inequality

extract:
'But the scientific evidence is not what it seems. The only really consistent finding is that breastfeeding reduces a baby’s chance of getting a stomach bug. The protection only lasts for as long as you breastfeed. And it’s not clear whether the protection comes from something in the breast milk or from not using dirty bottles.'

So, the science can be disputed, yes breast probably is a little bit better. But your wife's welfare and emotional relationship with her baby are probably more important. Breast milk isn't going to make your child a genius. In fact of our two children the one who had no breast milk is very advanced in her class, she's 6 and reads 2-3 80 page paper backs a night. I only say that so you can see it hasn't hindered her.

Also, whilst my wife wasn't the best breast feeder, she has gone on to be a genuinely amazing mother, and that has not just been recognised by me, but by friends and family.

I can only reiterate what nearly everyone says above, the only important thing is to have a happy and healthy baby and Mum - how your little boy is fed really doesn't matter.

Ours is now 5 months (and absolutely magic!) and as others above we really struggled in the early days with feeding. We may just have been unlucky with our midwife(s) but the pressure to persist with breastfeeding and subsequently being made to feel like a failure at a time we really needed support was IMO disgusting.

In the end we made the decision (against the advice of the MW) to supplement the feeding with a bottle of formula at night, this took the pressure off and was a real turning point. At 3 months we moved to just formula and have a happy, healthy Mum and baby.

Do what your instinct think is right, you'll usually find it's the way to go and wish you did it sooner!

**edit** oh yeah, and it is ****ing hard work but it does get easier after the first 2 weeks... honest!

We were in hospital for a week while the little blighter sorted out how to do it (dropped weight etc, wouldn't let us go home)

Thankfully baby S and Mrs S sorted it out between them but a good few of our friends went to see the NCT breastfeeding baby whisperer with good success but there were also loads of support groups run at the local sure start centers.

The feeling like a failure thing seems to be common, they really do push is so hard on you in the hospital. The main thing that's helped us is remembering that if you're not looking after yourselves then you're in no state to do your best for the little 'un.

Hi,

Like someone else has said - we've had a similar experience - but you'll only have similar and never identical. You guys must do what's right for you and not think about what other people are doing. Thinking about what others have done will do your heads in - every situation is unique.
If you want to email , my email address is in my profile....

As others have said, do whatever you feel right for you both.

You could try phoning the NCT helpline (0300 330 0700) and talk to a breastfeeding consultant. They may be of help and shouldn't be to militant (wife used to be one).

It will take a couple of days for the milk to come in. Keep going you are both doing a great job and no-one tells you how difficult the first few days are, mostly cos parents very quickly forget (block it out)

theotherjonv - Member
DO WHAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU THREE AND THE REST CAN **** OFF

My wife had a nightmare giving birth to Number 1 Child - thirty-something hours all up. Started off naturally, slowed to a stop, by this time she was knackered from the pushing. Tried venteuse, got most of the way out, got stuck, got pushed back in. Then off to surgery to take the emergency escape hatch. After all the trauma her body was having none of it when it came to breast feeding, so he had to go on formula. It came right eventually, but even then he wasn't getting enough from her so we had to top up with formula.

We were lucky that our ante-natal teacher said "right, we're government funded so I have to tell you that breast is best. I'm not allowed to tell you as a group anything about formula feeding. But, if one couple was to come to me privately after the class, I could tell you, not as a teacher but as a regular person, all about it. And if the rest of the class happened to have hung about and were eaves-dropping, then so be it." So we did, and she did 🙂 So at least we got to hear both sides, not just the official line.

Some friends of ours had their first and really struggled, the baby just wouldn't stop crying. All day, every day, save for short periods after breast feeding. They had specialist help from the hospital, were told not to use formula, to just keep persevering and it'd come right. It didn't. Eventually she had a bit of a breakdown and told him that she was going back to Namibia to be with her family. He got on the phone to his Mother-in-Law, got her over to the UK quick smart. Within a couple of hours the MiL (having had a load of kids and grandkids already) declared the baby was just hungry, went and bought formula and started feeding the kid that. Silence, happy baby, happy parents. Job jobbed.

So, to re-iterate what everyone else has said, do whatever it takes to get enough food into the sprog. Hopefully that will help everything else fall into place.

And hopefully this thread has made you realise that you're not alone - it's one of those things like infertility or miscarriages where you never hear about them and feel quite alone until you finally open up and find that loads of other people have gone through similar and that it's actually quite common. Hopefully talking it through on here can help provide some guidance.

Can i add that we need like buttons.
So many great replies to this thread

Lots of great advice here. A couple of things come across that ring true with our experience. Firstly, try not to sweat the small stuff. That is so hard when your knackered, stressed, emotional and confused but you've done so very, very much already to get this little lad through a tough introduction to the world that where his nutrition comes from doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things (especially when you factor in the benefits of less stressed, more rested parents). The second thing is that it's obvious that you're doing great and he's a very lucky chap to have such awesome parents.

It is hard but you'll get through it. Look after each other.

It's tough. Compared to some of the tales above our first (now 3.5 months old) was a pretty straightforward i.e. a C-section with no other complications. He dropped lots of weight in the first 2-3 weeks and the pressure on mrs djambo was immense, not so much form the midwives but more from herself. the milk came in, he seemed to be latched well and feeding lots (LOTS) but clearly wasn't getting enough. she could express by hand (took ages and wasn't really worth it beyond proving there was milk there!) but the pump never produced a drop. he dropped through the percentiles like a rock.

A friend recommended to keep some ready mixed formula in the house as an emergency (he did this because they ended up going back to hospital needlessly when their feeding wasn't working out). We tried cup feeding with this a couple of times when it got tough but he wasn't really interested. It was good to have it there as a backup even though we barely used it.

We got through it by buying a shed load of Lansinoh nipple cream (highly recommended), mrs djambo feeding him for literally hours at a time and not worrying too much about him dropping down the weight percentiles. We're 3.5 months in now, djambo jnr is still a titch compared to his peers but he's by far the liveliest/most alert.

Our midwives/health visitors were al great. They all said don't worry too much about the weight. If the nappies are full and they're alert then they should be fine.

Lots of good advice above. Above all don't forget that no matter how tired/stressed you are your wife is that X10. And if all else fails he can go on the bottle...it worked alright for me 😉

Mines is now 4 1/2 months old and the pressure from propaganda, midwives and health visitors to breastfeed seems unreasonable to me, but my other half didn't mind and its her vote that counts.

First few weeks were tough as nobody mentions it hurts and once you get sore there is no time to heal, but due to my SO's bloody mindedness its OK now.

In the NCT group that I was part of, of the 7 parents, 6 are using formula + expressing, so don't get hung up on using formula as a failure, as a lot of people do! Are you part of a NCT group as my SO has found the group support from other new mums invaluable.

Mrs sees herself as double failure, quite unjustified, and keeps breaking down.

Look after her, this is piffle but in a sleep deprived state it wont be entirely obvious to her.

FWIW there's nothing in the rules that says you can't do breast [i]and[/i] bottle. All the nutritional and immuno benefits of breast with the flexibility to allow you to step in and do night feeds letting your Mrs get some well earned and much needed shut eye, just a thought.

Anyone telling you how to raise [i]your[/i] child should be ignored until you have headspace for them (IME). Assuming that you're putting it in / wiping it off the correct ends then you'll all be just fine doing it your way.

Edit: To qualify the above I have two mini-fantastics both of which dropped significant weight after birth. Both were raised 'our' way and both are now at school and absolutely fine.

My daughter was born last week and my wife and I have just been through this. Up until she was born my wife always wanted to breastfeed and I fully supported this. We both knew it would be tough as it would all be on her but we were prepared for it and gave it a go. In hospital my wife managed to breast feed and everything seemed fine.

Upon coming home it all started to go a bit wrong. My daughter stopped feeding, became very lethargic and really hard to wake. She didn't feed for 13 hours and I had to call the out of hours midwife to come around. They recommended getting some formula just to get some food in her. The midwife and breast feeding specialist came out and my wife tried again and managed to start feeding but it was not very successful and baby was feeding for hours at a time and still not being responsive or waking. My wife was shattered and boobs were so sore she spent a lot of the night just crying. So we made the tough decision to go on to formula only. For the past 3 days she is a completely different baby, awake, alert and responsive. She wakes up for feeds every 3-4 hours and appears happy and content.

I agree breast is best but it is not always possible and there is a lot of pressure put on woman to breast feed. Having seen how well my daughter is compared to only a few days ago and how much better my wife looks and feels, with bottle you can help out with feeds during the night, we don't feel guilty about going on to bottle feeding.

Do what is best for you, take all the advice but make your own decision. If breast feeding is putting too much stress on your wife then go for bottle and enjoy your baby.

I feel for you op.
We had a very stressful time. Baby not latching , could be tongue tied , but wasn't. Different advice depending on who you talked to.
In the end, we(the missus tbh)persevered , she called in a breast feeding guru (horse whisperer) who imo calmed us all down and the little bugger breast fed til he was 2. Saved me a fortune on formula. 😀

It does get easier. very very slowly... 😉

gypsumfantastic - Member
FWIW there's nothing in the rules that says you can't do breast and bottle. All the nutritional and immuno benefits of breast with the flexibility to allow you to step in and do night feeds letting your Mrs get some well earned and much needed shut eye, just a thought.

Rightly or wrongly, we were told not to do that as it can cause 'nipple confusion'.

Rightly or wrongly, we were told not to do that as it can cause 'nipple confusion'.

Can't say our two ever got confused, they have an innate instinct to suckle no matter what you offer them.

Rightly or wrongly, we were told not to do that as it can cause 'nipple confusion'.

Who told you that? Not by any chance one of the very pro breast feeding people referred to above?

I'm calling BS on that too. Might be mildly confusing but it's not anything like the naysayers would have you believe, and if it means you can share the burden with expressed milk (as we did with our second), even better.

http://www.parenting.com/article/is-nipple-confusion-a-myth

Thanks for all the stuff guys. Really helpful advice and good to know not on own.

In the end I did the following;

1. Got her Mum to come back down - 2 days and then a week off work next week. Emotional support had been really helpful for her and therefore me.

2. Rented a hospital size breastpump machine. Only 30 quid a month. Basically going to bypass the technical bits. Oscar isn't sucking enough for it to work apparently. Had the north Surrey breastfeeding consultant in, really good, identified the boy as the issue.

3. Have got formula and bottles to give him his bulk 'white carbs' feeds.

Bit disturbing the research on this stuff. Basically suggests that formula is actively bad, not just not best.

Am hoping that if she can feed him at least some breast milk for as long as possible that might have enough hormones and antibodies and magic stuff to make a difference. Like a multivitamin after eating pizza all day.

Time will tell. Mrs is much happier and he isn't screaming the place down. We were able to come home after 3 nights at hospital, which is something.

Now onto the sleep stage. Wife is asleep, I've given the boy a dummy and am rocking the crib. More bad Dad I suppose. Now I'm feeling like the cheating failure. Can't tell if he is happy, or I've just shut him up.

Guilty. But atleast the Mrs is now getting some sleep.

Bit disturbing the research on this stuff. Basically suggests that formula is actively bad, not just not best.

You think that's the case? I somehow think the world would be a different place if that were really the case.

Glad to hear things are looking up a bit 😀

Bit disturbing the research on this stuff. Basically suggests that formula is actively bad, not just not best.

Got any links? Genuinely curious as Number 2 Child is due in January. My understanding (from 4 years ago) is that the governments of developed nations are more or less pushing 'breast is best' because they are supporting the message given by the WHO in less-developed countries. In places where there may not be access to clean drinking water, formula can indeed be 'actively bad'. Breast milk is basically sterile, and can help with the child's immunity, win-win. And it's not the done thing to have one set of rules for rich folk and one for poor folk, or something.

Basically for No.2 we're going to try breast-feeding as much as possible, and top up with formula if needed, and probably won't worry too much.

Can't tell if he is happy, or I've just shut him up.

I've given the boy a dummy and am rocking the crib. More bad Dad I suppose. Now I'm feeling like the cheating failure.

By the sounds of it, you know which is best but think it's easy to start to listen to individuals, the world health organization knows what its talking about and its based on thousands and thousands of children not just a few. Plus what do they gave to gain from saying breast us best? Formula companies aren't even allowed to advitise (not follow on milk before someone says they have seen an advert) in this country...read from that what you wish.
Anyway back to the point, its great that your supportive and looking to help, my sister had a similar experience by the sounds of it, all the pain, stress and feeling like a failure ment it took a while for her to bond with her wee boy. Sadly her partner is from the dark ages and was already not really in favour of breast feeding, he kind of took over and the decision was removed from my sister. You can always see the slight disappointment when she see's my partner feeding ours, I know deep down she regrets it and the bond is no where near as strong.
My only advice is too keep helping and use the NHS to the full they will help and if someone isn't helpful look for another midwife, it's not the NHS it's a bad midwife.
And don't let them feed to sleep our one is a nightmare to get to sleep because we let him do this! (After the first 4 months)But then everyone remarks how increadablly healthy, full of energy (too much he's looking me) and clever. But the bond between mum and baby is the most amazing thing not that bottle fed baby's can't but its a lot harder.
Good luck you sound like a good guy and will be a great dad

the world health organization knows what its talking about and its based on thousands and thousands of children not just a few. Plus what do they gave to gain from saying breast us best? Formula companies aren't even allowed to advitise (not follow on milk before someone says they have seen an advert) in this country...read from that what you wish.

Scaremongering and over-zealous health officials? No one argues that breast isn't best, particularly if you don't have reliable and safe drinking water, but to say that kids raised on formula are somehow guaranteed to suffer in the long run is going too far. I have two healthy girls, now 15 and 11, and both were raised on formula.

And we used dummies, the horror!!!!!

Had almost the same experience as djambo up there but Chloe is now 11 months. The first few days we were kept in hospital as she wouldn't/couldn't feed and a million different midwives helped.

She wouldn't latch or take a bottle. If you’ve been through this you know it becomes a 24hr mission and that's all you focus on. Eventually we got the 'right' midwife and she started to get it but only with a nipple sheild.

We ditched the shields at about 6 months thankfully and she feeds super good on the boob but we have never managed to get a bottle in her. You'd have to meet her to see how alert and adult she acts. This has meant weaning has been really tough with only really making progress in the last 6 weeks.

She has a very low interest in food but the more savoury and Asian the better... And sits on the bottom percentile but in our ante natal group of 8 babies she is the most mentally acute and gentle. She is quite wee as a consequence of not eating much but she has no off switch and almost limitless energy.

It's a journey you have to find the path off together as a group with the enormous support that is available. Disregard all the opinions of others who have different views and do what is right for your partner and baby ultimately. You will find a way. You will feel like it is never going to get better sometimes and you will be called upon to be the point of solidity and resolve in your home. You'll come to know what support really means.

Oh and btw, it's totally worth the pain. It's temporary but they joy is permanent.

I really wouldn't spend time worrying about breast vs formula milk. When you look back in a few years' time, and put it into perspective with the hundreds of other things you do to raise a healthy child, you'll wonder why you worried so much. There are some rather unpleasant characters out there who get very pushy and militant about breastfeeding. I breastfed my babies but I was lucky that I found it quite easy. I do remember mums who were made to feel like rubbish because they couldn't, or didn't want to, do it.
Caring for a baby is exhausting enough without beating yourself up about which milk.

As above. Wouldn't lose a minute worrying about it, he'll be fine. Wait till the little buggers flushed your car keys down the toilet or set fire to the cat. 🙂

Interesting comments cows_in_cars. I wonder if it was deliberate or well meaning but off the mark; but it's exactly the sort of responses the Pro group gave my wife and i and which 'helped' us not one iota.

Here's how your piece comes across to a desperate mother and father who want the best for their baby

It sounds like you know what's best. But breast is better, all these respected organisations say so, and the formula milk isn't even allowed to be advertised, that speaks volumes, eh? My sister's using bottle milk but that's because her husband made her and he's an anti-breast philistine and now you can see she regrets it. And the baby doesn't bond to you as well either. So anyway, make your own choice, I'm sure you know what's best.

Is it any wonder that parents who make a rational and conscious decision to use formula milk feel stigmatised and failures, when even the well meaning give this message?

The breast is best WHO paper was written in 1981. It was / is then up to countries to enact legislation if they choose to; Britain banned formula milk advertising in 1995, 20 years ago. I am pretty sure that while breast was better then, and still is now, the differences are marginal and that formula milk as a pretty bloody good substitute for breast milk where it is preferred or needed. The trouble is that BiB can almost say what they want and any alternate view from researchers or the companies that make formula milk are shouted down as 'they would say that, wouldn't they?'

You say similar in your post 'what do the WHO have to gain?' - answer; nothing other than they have a belief and a position on it (which also takes into account that, yes, there have been some dubious marketing practices in the past, the access to clean water, sterilised equipment, etc.) so all they have to gain from it is continuing to espouse their position. Which after all is what we all do - what do you or I have to gain from having this discussion either, other than a belief and a desire to present an opinion that we think is true?

Other comments while true are not exact. It can be harder to bond but that's due to skin on skin contact. Both the wife and i used to strip down to feed whether formula, breast or breast from bottles. It's not the content it's the delivery that matters in that case.

There won't be a definitive answer because to run a proper study where for example one twin gets breast only and the other formula only would be unethical. Instead you have to do comparisons, and they are inevitably flawed. eg: the supposed link between formula and later life obesity. Is it a link? Or is it that generally posh middle class families have more time to do breast feeding and get the support they need; lower income families have mothers that need to get back to work. And the real link is between middle class fmailies with better long term diet vs poor families and junk food?

Sorry was meant to be well meaning.
The way you say you fed your child sounds really good.
I used my sister as an example because it's really sad to see, she felt like she failed as a mum in terms of giving birth, handed over responsibility to the dad, as he's had children before and by the time she wanted to breastfeed the choice had been removed as she no longer had any milk. And thus felt like she failed again. She's a good mum but you can see that her wee one is more her partners than her's. But clearly that's not the case for all

And that's all I would say to the OP really is try and keep your partner feeding a bit just so when she feels better she still has the choice which ever way she decides to go.

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone, I am pro breastfeeding but the bottle v's breast arguments annoys me mainly because bottle feeding parents are often so defensive and like they are the picked upon minority when in this country (others are much better) only 1% of children are exclusively breastfeed till they are 6 months. 1%! That figure does include parents that wean early but still bottle feeding hardly not the done thing.

But I think as above post points out a lot of the "negatives" can be cover come with good practice and good parenting throughout your child's life.

only 1% of children are exclusively breastfeed till they are 6 months. 1%!

Interesting stat. Link? How many are fed exclusively breastmilk, whether draught, bottle or cup? That's the real debate breast vs formula. And how many are fed part and part (mainly breastmilk but topped up with formula)

Completely agree FunkyDunc. No one denies it would be preferable but people should be supported in this decision and allowed to choose not to without being made to feel a failure if they don't.

We actually had the opposite problem - both of our children flatly refused to take a bottle, even though it was expressed breast milk. After a couple of months of feeling like an abject failure trying to feed my daughter, my wife and I agreed to knock it on the head.

I do remember that my wife got some good advice from a helpline when she was having trouble with our eldest biting, I think it was through the NHS. Might be worth a go?

http://www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/About-Baby-Friendly/Breastfeeding-in-the-UK/UK-Breastfeeding-rates/

I think you're right though I think a lot will be breastfed but topped up or as I say a lot of early weaning. What I was trying to make the point is that I don't think people should feel like they are in the minority. We have had loads of nasty, snipey comments because our wee one's breastfed as I am sure those who are have had but it's not all easy, joy and light this side of the fence.

Not that I am looking for sympathy but understanding the facts would help people, ie for 6 months our wee one couldn't be apart from my partner for more than an hour-ish, I was always seen as the hapless dad "what can't he take him? Pfft (roll of eyes)Dads!" . We were endless late for things as he would be feeding. We seemed useless compared to other organised parents. We still, almost two years on haven't had a night off from him (which annoys the hell out of one set of grandparents, who we endlessly have to explain to them he can't stay over because he needs mummy) and we have not had one full nights sleep in two years! (Rubbish advert for breast feeding)
Not that I want sympathy but I find it hard that bottle feedings the normal and does influence how people view looking after babies.

The other thing that has been missed in this slightly unwanted Breast vs bottle, is the advantages to mum, less likely to get postnatal depression, less like to get breast cancer and will lose the "pregnancy weight" much quicker.

But for the OP partner maybe the bottle will help her feel better than persevering with something that doesn't feel "right".

But you do have to do wants best for you, but think for the OP if you do go down the bottle route your not going to be alone.
The way I see it is it's a bit like eating white bread over brown, it's not the end of the world and there are loads of other factors to take into account for the over all picture.

Problem is, they tell you how easy it can be, because they want people to try, but it can be really hard.

Our first was really difficult for my wife, but she is very stubborn and after three months of problems it went ok. Exclusive feeding until 6mo, and she finally gave up nighttime feeds on her own about 14mo.

Problem is, breast IS better, but it can be too difficult - so you have to weigh it up and make the right choice. Be decisive in other words, and don't engage anyone else in conversation about it!

From my observations, a lot of mums who choose to bottle feed ARE picked on. Whether they are the majority or minority, I don't know.
OP - I would strongly advise your wife to steer clear of breast vs bottle debates on parenting websites.
The NCT gave me good advice.

Would agree DON'T read stuff from the internet, I would say the NHS is the best bet, I know they are more towards Breast but think they will still be supportive. The whole debate is fairly pointless really.

No.1 son was breast fed exclusively till weaned. Wouldn't have a bottle.

No. 2 son was also, but would accept a bottle, so we supplemented allowing Mrs B to get a full nights sleep (and me take my full turn at zombie-dom)

No. 3 went more or less bottle only from around 8 weeks as frankly he was a greedy bugger.

There are no rules, and it won't make any significant difference. Just don't discuss it with anyone, keep off the internetz and get on with it.
Fact is it's a difficult time without making it harder for yourselves - the important point is they are fed and cared for, not the method - it's not forever anyway.

No.1 son was breast fed exclusively till weaned. Wouldn't have a bottle.
No. 2 son was also breast milk fed, but would accept a bottle of expressed milk.

Neither has ever had formula (except a bottle one of them nicked as a toddler, but he was on solids and cow's milk by then anyway).

I don't judge either way, sometimes it doesn't work out (though that can be for all sorts of sortable reasons). But occasionally you hear people saying exclusive breast feeding is unrealistic - and they're wrong too.

We actually attended a few breastfeeding workshops as a couple ("look folks these freaks can make it work") and it surprised me how many of the women wanted to ask me how I felt about my wife breastfeeding. There was clearly a feeling amongst some mothers that their partners were putting up with the breastfeeding rather than being supportive.

Look at it this way. Breastfeeding is better than formula - evolution is a wonderful thing. But formula is better than no feeding and by a very long way.

If the baby won't latch now, consider expressing and using a bottle. 99% of the benefit and a reduction in the stress. Freeze it, save it for later when they need milk for nursery or when mum's out on the lash and dad's at home with junior.

Concentrate on what you can do, not what you can't.

Reduce stress whenever you can.

Beware dodgy advice from middle aged men on 'tinternet. I am not a trained counsellor.

All for breast feeding. Nothing more natural tbh.

Only issue I have is when you don't realise the mother is breastfeeding. Happened to me recently at the climbing wall. Walking past a mother with a newborn cuddled into her. I gave her an acknowledging smile as I walked past and was looking at what I though was the babies head. Turned out it was her breast and when I looked back at her she didn't seem so impressed at me gawping.

Thank god I didn't choose to stroke the babies head......

All for it as long as missunderstandings are taken as just that and not some climber getting a good eyefull

Did his interesting birthmark not give it away?

Little one was feeding, the interesting birthmark was covered up. His head was rather bald though (Thank god)

Encouraging breastfeeding is great.
Discouraging formula feeding is wrong.

Cousin was over "over encouraged" towards breastfeeding to the point of bullying, when it obviously wasn't working out for her or her kid.
Child lost weight and had to go back into hospital, mother suffered depression related to the feeling of failure from the breastfeeding not working out.
There are some really nasty, uncaring "profesionals" pushing agendas too far without thinking about the people involved.

If it's not working out for either the kid or the mother then you need to do something else, that's just being a parent.
No-one is "to blame", mainly because you've done nothing wrong.

This is the last thing I will say but the above pretty spot on. Breastfeeding is best but if it's not working (for whatever medical reason) then thank god for formula. It's what happens with animals (domestic/farm/captivity obviously) mum feeds if for any reason it can't you have to bottle feed. I certainly don't think badly towards anyone that can't feed for a medical or psychological reason...why it's wrong to pass any judgement on any stranger feeding with a bottle as you don't know why they are...but equally poor to sit at the next table in a café banging on, loudly, how it's unsightly, unnatural and not sterlie!?!? while a small baby does the most natural thing in the world especially for them.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812877/

This was my principle source of worry last night.

Still. Heading to around 30/70 with breast pump.

but equally poor to sit at the next table in a café banging on, loudly, how it's unsightly, unnatural and not sterlie!?!? while a small baby does the most natural thing in the world especially for them.

Sadly, there are still some people that can't deal with this most natural of acts, thankfully a very small minority albeit quite often a vocal one. But as we saw recently, that isn't the majority and in many cases can easily be countered. That doesn't mean breastfeeding mums shouldn't be discrete; most of us don't want to look at you doing it because of your own privacy as much as anything, but we don't mind if we see you doing it. (does that make sense - what i mean is if you're flapping them about wildly in public then it attracts attention and makes people more uncomfortable, compared to someone calmly and quietly just getting on with it?)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/this-cafe-had-the-perfect-response-when-a-man-complained-abo#.wdZvQ8xgA

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/8216-Ukip-supporter-politely-ask-eat-corner-8217/story-25466824-detail/story.html

Agree with the above (and I know I am going back on what I said I will try and make this the last thing!) and I except some people find it difficult to deal with/see but, it's why women have boobs!

I know some people find it difficult and your right (I the description made me laugh!) you should try to be discreet but you tell the baby that! Our one it horrendous he dives his hand in to my partners top all the time, he stops feeding as soon as anything happens, say on a train when the conductor comes he just turns his head to see whats going on, boob! My partner tries to be discreet, she really, really doesn't want her boobs on show but sometimes it's impossible.
And before anyone suggests a cloth, have you met a baby! Well certainly a chimp like creature like my son, my partner tried to use a cloth he just grabbed it and waved it about, again look everyone I am feeding and boobs!

And this is sort of what I mean, and I am not saying you theotherjonv as you seem pretty clued up, but as breast feeding in this country is relatively rare people just don't understand the issues, and it's not just a case of covering up, you really have little control over the leech like creature!

I know just what you mean, my second was breastfed and we've had all those experiences too. Most people will avert their gaze naturally, people don't want to stare, but when that happens inevitably people see stuff, even if it is just glimpses.

If anyone (on the giving end) really can't deal with that, then there are alternatives such as expressing so you can bottle feed when out, or accepting that you might want to sit in the quiet corner or a dedicated mother and baby room. If you can breastfeed, and want to breastfeed, then you need to accept that just occasionally a stranger might see your boobs, and occasionally squared that stranger might be a grumpy ****er who'll make a deal of it; tell them to **** off and the rest of us will back you while you do. Anyone actually using the fact that there is a small possibility they have to deal with that sort of situation as a reason to not breastfeed - I'd say that's poor on their part.

Given the shortness of some women's shorts and the low-cut-ness of some women's tops, I can't believe people make a fuss about discrete breastfeeding in public!

People who come out with the "woman should breastfeed but discreetly" or "it's fine but I'm embarrassed for the mother" should go away and **** themselves.

Take one baby. It has a mind of it's own and a strong desire for boob coupled with a sucking action of a vacuum pump, teeth and terrible motor skills.

Take one mothers' boob. Chafed and raw from said baby.

The end result of this is that sometimes boobs get flashed.

Deal with it.

OP, my wife had a nightmare feeding our first child and subsequently trained to be a breastfeeding councillor. If your wife would like some friendly, pragmatic non judgemental advice, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch. Kenadolphe At hotmail DOT com

There is light at the end of the tunnel. Since baby ajt is now 3 days old, it is only 5 weeks and 4 days until he starts needing baby rice and mashed banana to keep his hunger satisfied. Going by what my offspring were like.

@tomd, not sure if that's aimed at me or not? When I say be discrete, I mean that while a lady clearly has the right to breastfeed in public, equally doing so in an appropriate manner so as to minimise embarrassment for those that may be made somewhat uncomfortable by it is just common courtesy. Being a breastfeeding mum doesn't remove the need to behave appropriately for the situation you're in. At one end you dont have to hide in a dark room, but equally having a 'it's my choice, **** em' attitude isn't suddenly OK because you happen to be a nursing mother.

Like I said in my post, been there, done it, had the tutting old dears as well as the supportive cafe owner that clears a booth for some privacy away from people who might not like it. And yes, occasionally a stray boob escapes and is seen by passers by. That's different to flapping them out in the middle of tescos and then when people are taken aback telling them to deal with it.

IMHO, of course.

Yeah it was aimed at you. It's not a choice. Baby needs food, baby gets fed. If you want to take it up with a breast feeding mother, good luck to you.

It's just some sort of weird Victorian prudishness. Have a look at yourself, it's just not an issue in pretty much every other country on earth. What would you do in Malaysia when women breast feed [s]there[/s]their [edit] babies at business meetings? Combust?