MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Boss just offered me a permanent job at the place I've been contracting at.
Very good terms and security, but ultimately less money than I make now.
I have a phobia of permanent work.. but I also have a family..
Panicking a bit!
tell him the salary is too low and you've been offered something in finland on £XXXXXX, but you like to stay - if they can get closer to finland salary you'd reconsider
Hey - we all have a phobia about permanent work 😆
[i]ultimately less money than I make now.[/i]
If you look at how much you lose by not having paid holidays/health care/pension etc as a contractor the difference may not be as much as you think?
I've got a phobia about work.
I did look at all that yes.
We're a bright lot us contractors 😉
In the current economic climate - unless you can guarantee more money for ever take it. Imagine sick pay, holiday pay etc
What do you do?
IT.
The market fpr contractors definitely picking up a lot now, which is good - plus contracting is a big thing in IT and there are many many people making a good regular living from it.
I am in almost exactly the same position. I've been offered, and verbally accepted, a staff offer albeit at a different company. Not handed in my notice yet though. I'll see how it works out and if I don't like it I can always quit. The climate in the industry I'm in is pretty good now and is likely to be for the foreseable future.
Hold IT ! (see what I did there ?)
Whats all this assumption that a permie job is secure, blah, blah.
Taking a shot of permicilin, committing permicide, won't guarantee you keep your job one second longer.
This is the UK you know.
[i]unless you can guarantee more money for ever take it[/i]
Why ?, don't [i]staff[/i] ever get made redundant, get binned, etc.
I'm contract, and the mere thought of going permie is more than I can bare.
Stay as you are, unless you can't get anything else and they are going to close your position where you are now.
I'm contract, and the mere thought of going permie is more than I can bare.
See? Someone UNDERSTANDS! 🙂
Current position is finishing at the end of the year as it happens.
The company offering me the position is IBM, one of the best companies around to work for it seems.
[i]We're a bright lot us contractors[/i]
and yet you came on here expecting sage advice?
*shakes head and wanders off muttering*
and yet you came on here expecting sage advice?
No I come on here with my panicked ramblings expecting you lot to slag me off/take the wee/identify with my situation/insult me/recount your experiences/whatever, but you will at least respond and give me attention 🙂
I'm not asking directly for advice because there's no way any of you lot know the whole situation of course, being relative strangers 🙂
If perm doesn't fit with your life don't take it
If going perm takes worry out of your life - hmm I'd do it as long as you are getting market rate and can cope with that
It's IBM, take it. Since your boss rates you enough to invest valuable headcount, ask if he/she can increase the offer to midway to what you earn now (assuming you have factored in healthcare, pension and 20+days holiday).
Having worked there, do you like the work/manager/company? If you do, then a modest reduction in salary with some perceived increase in stability is the opportunity cost for the additional job satisfaction.
Welcome to corporate life 😉
The company offering me the position is IBM, one of the best companies around to work for it seems
Coughs and splutters....
Having worked there, do you like the work/manager/company?
Yes - the 'group' I've worked in for this contract comprises people I've known for several years and with whom I get on excellently - great people. They're apparently merging it into a bigger team to develop this particular special skill into a larger speciality area which they are pushing to be a big new thing.
Coughs and splutters....
Do tell..?
glassdoor.com has it pretty much summed up 🙂
I used to work for IBM in Redhill
They made me redundant with a years salary as a pay off - so I'd definitely go back there 🙂
IT.The market fpr contractors definitely picking up a lot now, which is good - plus contracting is a big thing in IT and there are many many people making a good regular living from it.
Just showed this to the wife, she has gone for a lie down ❗
She is currently sick to the back teeth of the revolving door that IT contractors seem to install on their way into her work. No sooner than the projects she is working on getting somewhere than the contractor ups and leaves for next big bucks job and another comes in and has to start all over again "fixing" the bls-up the last one left 👿
She just wishes her employer would get someone in on a permanent contract who could see the jobs to completion, maintainance and updating
I only once left a contract before it finished and that was after 15 months because they were paying me the equivalent of £11/h. I've been here 16mo, the previous one 2mo (that's all it was) and before that it was 4 years.
ICT contractors. IME only concerned with the technology drop. They go, and leave the rest of us clearing up their mess.
We don't bother with them anymore.
I'm concerned with doing a good job, and I continue working until YOU decide you don't need me.
Good worker, I am 🙂
Don't do it. They won't respect you in the morning and you won't either.
There's a huge difference between deploying and running a system, the deploying is the interesting part that contractors like :p I work for an IT consultancy so but of a mix really in that my role is permanent but I do some contracting engagements at clients, if I was contracting now though I'd definitely stick with it as when the economy starts to recover is usually the golden time for contracting as suspended projects get green lights and they realise they've made the permanent people with the required skills redundant.
There's usually a rise in mergers & acquisitions giving contractors the opportunity to work on more complex projects (although IME they can be painful as there's twice as much office politics going on and you get stuck in the middle...).
Don't do it molgrips. Who would take over the role of Alan Partridge on here if you're not living in Travel Taverns?
To add some balance, and coz I liked Sage advice..
Have a Word with yourself molgrips, you have a family and need to revise your Outlook... you obviously Excel in your current role. Doesn't being based in a permanent Office give you Access to additional benefits that being a contractor doesn't?
Even though the choice probably is yours to make; is it not the client (potential employer) that makes the decision?
The HMRC may view it as you can only continue as a contractor if the employer allows you to.
After 2 years in the same job and location the HMRC may decide that you are an employee of IBM anyway.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/index.htm
After 4 years as a temp employee (maybe not a as contractor though) it could be expected that you will be made permanent or made redundant.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2034/contents/made
Is this not why contractors like to move around to avoid questions from the HMRC. Or put bluntly if you have been in one place for more than two years what makes you think you are a contractor?
The company offering me the position is IBM, one of the best companies around to work for it seems.
Then maybe you need a dose of unemployment to make you realise that many people would like to be in your position.
If you go perm, do it from the start of the tax year - otherwise you may have a large tax bill (if you've been canny on how you 'paid' yourself while contracting).
One of my riding buddies worked (senior SAP consultant) a fair few years for IBM, when he resigned he emailed his Manager - as he'd never met him, in the year he'd worked for him...
Apparently the 'rules' didn't allow his Manager to ever have met him, as only where a client is paying could they travel. 😕
Surfer - I appreciate how lucky I am every day.
TSY - 🙄
Fuzzy - interesting take.. but I fear the economy is not quite there yet - impending govt cuts will have an effect on the IT industry.
Re IR35 - I worked at one place for 4 years as a contractor because that's how long the project took. The project finished and we all left. How's that equivalent to permanent work? There were up to 80 contractors working on it at the peak, and the organisation only had requirement for about 10 IT staff once the project was in, so how on earth would they be expected to take on 70 staff knowing they'd make them redundant in 3-4 years?
The way I see it if your job is solely attached to some finite project, however big, you're not a permie.
Even if you go permy with IBM for 18 months or so it's not a bad thing. They are OK as big corporates go I've delt with much, much worse. Worth a little push for a better salary they prolly have the budget.
Frankly working with people you don't want to murder would swing it for me, next place could be full of idiots.
[i]The way I see it[/i]
you need to talk to an accountant - if you take up a permanent post with a company you have contracted for the tax man may back date the assesment, as above, due to IR35.
Do you do any work outside of your current contract so you can 'prove' you're not an employee - it's something I encourage my contractors to do.
Missing your kids grow up whilst you stay in a travel tavern is something I'd go miles to avoid, I did plenty of that a younger bloke. I'm working on a programme with a finite life in my company, probably 2013/14 its likley that if you have the right skills they keep you and movey you to something else, I'm still a permanent employee. The beauty of this is that I get to see my kids every day, not like the contracting PM's and BA's that I work along side with who stay in hotels for 19.99 at heathrow T5 whislt their kids are in a different city.
Permanent for me everytime..
Also if your Southbank based Konditor and Cook is nearby.....Mmmmmmmmmbakery..
Missing your kids grow up whilst you stay in a travel tavern
Tssk, but molgrips gets to see us lot grow and develop on here. It's already clear he ignores the forum when he's not at work / in a Travel Tavern. Long live molgrips on STW /ContractorWorld 😆
if you take up a permanent post with a company you have contracted for the tax man may back date the assesment, as above, due to IR35.
Ah yes that's an interesting point... hmm.. perhaps I need a 3 monther between this contract and that permie job...
Missing your kids grow up whilst you stay in a travel tavern is something I'd go miles to avoid
Good point of course. So far this contract I've been in a hotel, and Mrs Grips has been to visit me 2 nights a week with Lil Grips most weeks. It'd have been 1000% harder without that. The current contract is expenses paid, which allows for the hotel; if I were not on expenses I'd be renting a flat, which would be even better than the hotel to be honest.
However the permie job will still involve a lot of travelling, and I might not get to choose where I end up either which could make seeing the family a lot harder 🙁
There are no worthwhile permie jobs near where I live, in case you were wondering, and I do not want to move to the South East 🙂
Thats why I moved to the SE, becasue I could do a job and not have to travel a lot. A [u]lot[/u] of people I work with commute in from S Wales and the North, even permanent, its a better quality of life they say. To me a better quality of life was living near work and getting to see the family every day. The hills are still there at the weekend.
I want to live in Wales. The theory was to rent a flat in wherever my job was so we could live in two places. However, our cat has put a spanner in those works and our kid might also when she gets to school age!
The problem is I don't think I can cope with a dreary job in the same location forever...
Molgrips, surely this is as straightforward as you sitting & writing two lists, a pros & cons list? Reasons to take the permanent job, reasons not to take the permanent job?
I'm no help otherwise as I'm NHS employed and have worked for the same trust since 1996, albeit with a promotion a few years ago. I'm silently wishing that they'll start to cull some top end nurses jobs, I'd jump at the opportunity currently.
I don't like writing pro and con lists, I find that I just write down all the things I already know. I tend to imagine myself being in the various different aspects of different situations and measuring how that makes me feel.
I think it would be in my best interests to go permie (IR35 notwithstanding) IF the package and the job content is right.
Molgrips what do you actually lose by giving the Perm thing a go?
Does it stop you contracting if you don't like it?
1) You should try a permanent job if you have been contracting for ever
2) Pay is always negotiable - aim for somewhere between what they are offering you and what you are currently on
3) If you don't like it you can always leave after say 6 months. They may even take you back on as a contractor in the same job
4) As someone said above, if you are working with people you like and on a project you like it's a big contributor to work/life satisfaction
5) The economic outlook still had uncertainties. Not a bad time to to a permanent job for a while
I want to live in Wales
Given that you live in the most populated part of Wales albeit with reasonable access to countryside, how would living in a medium sized town in proximity to, for example, South/ North Downs be significantly different?
Not wanting to get rid of you, just curious 😉
I made the transition from IT contractor to permie after being made an offer five years ago. There were a large number of reasons why I took the role, but a lot of it revolved around quality of life and the people / environment I got to work in.
Rather than doing a pros/cons list, I put together a comparison of costs / income / benefits, etc, on both sides, including trying to place a monetary value on the intangibles such as those mentioned above. Once I'd done that, the basic salary comparison didn't look nearly so black and white.
Molgrips what do you actually lose by giving the Perm thing a go?
Does it stop you contracting if you don't like it?
A bit of freedom. Although ultimately I can of course quit any time I like, it's a little difficult both practically and morally.
Given that you live in the most populated part of Wales albeit with reasonable access to countryside, how would living in a medium sized town in proximity to, for example, South/ North Downs be significantly different?
Hehe, you've not spent much time down here have you? 🙂 The entire South East as far as I can tell is chocked with traffic. Even in SE Wales you can find an open road not too far away; in SE England there doesn't seem to be any such thing. Even in Cardiff things are far less busy and drivers are far less aggressive and unpleasant than they are here. For instance, in almost 18 months of driving down here I don't think I've EVER been let out of any junction or side road. I refuse to cycle on the roads during rush hour unless it's country lanes, it's just to busy, fast and downright dangerous.
Plus I didn't say I wanted to live in Cardiff, just Wales 🙂
Hehe, you've not spent much time down here have you?
I venture into England once in a while, but not much down that way except to travel to races and such. Never seemed that bad to me. I imagine there's more traffic than Wales, but there must be somewhere close to good off road and amenities, or is the whole of the SE a write off?
Plus I didn't say I wanted to live in Cardiff, just Wales
No, I know, but if you're faced with a permie job that's a long commute from where you currently live, it seems odd to me to move to a place where the a long commute time isn't reduced...
//you out for a ride this weekend at all?
The company offering me the position is IBM, one of the best companies around to work for it seems
Is this the same IBM that a few years ago released all of the Contractors to save costs then realised they have no staff to cover the work? or the same IBM that keep releasing and re-hiring staff on different contracts to suit the company, or the same IBM that are so clueless in a lot of their work that they sub contract it out to other companies
[i]The current contract is expenses paid, which allows for the hotel;[/i]
Contractor, nah you're a permie already - hope HMRC doesn't take a detailed look into your position.
tbh The best way to avoid IR35 etc is for more than one contractor to operate through the same Limited business - that way it is a business, rather than a tax dodge.
Contractor, nah you're a permie already
In what sense? I'm about to leave because the project is over - how's that permanent?
No, I know, but if you're faced with a permie job that's a long commute from where you currently live, it seems odd to me to move to a place where the a long commute time isn't reduced...
Ah I should clarify - I'd be home based, meaning that if I wasn't on a client site I'd be at home. This would be a good thing, but could be bad depending on how much time was spent on client sites and how far away they were...
Re riding, I was thinking it's high time we did a proper old skool Beacons epic, but we have got an awful lot of work to do at home 🙁 We're trying to properly clean the house before guests come at Christmas.
Ah, well it's a no-brainer then surely?
I know your feelings toward permanent jobs, but the recent contract hasn't exactly been easy when you consider impact on/to family life, no?
Is it going to take [i]all[/i] weekend to clean the house? 😯
It's going to take pretty much until Christmas to clean the house!
Yes, the recent job hasn't been easy for us all but this new one could be worse. If I get sent to Newcastle for the next 2 years then they'd not be able to come and see me ever 🙁