[Closed] Economical petrol car - possible?

40+ mpg seems pretty standard for a 1.6 mid sized car on 'combined' cycle. I'm interested in responses too.

I wish for a 147 but this is where it'll end I believe - wishing for the impossible.

Yes.

Although most really economical innovations in petrol seem to be aimed at really small cars. iQ or the Fiat Multi-air are good but I don't think you get them in bigger cars.

VAG TSI/FSI is probably your best bet, but you REALLY have to keep your boot out of the TSI ones apparently to get anything decent.

Of course there's petrol hybrids...

PS my parents just got a Focus 1.6 petrol and are getting 42-43 ish with mainly country roads.

My other half gets ~40-44 from her 1.6 8v megane (1998)?

I have an Audi 1.6FSI that gets real world 48MPG. I bank on 10 miles per litre in normal use, thats 400miles out of one 42 litre tank.

On a long run at steady 60mph it will get well over 50mpg.

Thats measured on tank refils, not on the trip computer (they always lie!)

I'm currently averaging a REAL (As in not imagined or off the trip computer) 41.2mpg out of a 1.6 Focus estate, mostly on motorways though, but that does incude a holiday with the bikes on the back for most of it and driving round the Peaks and Northumberland....

I presume you mean an A3, CHB?

The Prius is too large to consider it at present, physically too large. With a bit of luck my wife will change her job this Summer so it'll save some 100 miles per day in commuting, the town we live in is small and you actually walk everywhere, it'll mean the car will be a luxury not necessity as opposite to the present situation. I also have a motorbike so my going to work (as and when) will be sorted too.
I tried FIATs, but whoever designed the interior of a Stilo has to be blind AND unskilled. It makes my Pug positively lush.
TSI is an old technology I believe, used by the Jap car manufacturers years ago. Beside, golfs are expensive to insure round here (Eire).

41mpg from an Auris 1.6

coffeeking - Member
My other half gets ~40-44 from her 1.6 8v megane (1998)?

One of the "I see you babe shakin' your ass?" ones?

No, before that model. The older coupe version.
[img] [/img]
She is a dainty driver though, not sure I'd get that from it if i'm honest!

The Prius is too large to consider it at present, physically too large

Why so? Parking or driveability? It's an extremely easy car to drive if that's the issue, it really is a lot like driving a small car. Tiny bonnet, light steering and controls, and a high up driving position with a great view. Plus many are around with reversing cameras and self parking.

TSI is not old. It's FSI with a turbo and sometimes a supercharger too. FSI is direct injection petrol which means that rather than filling the whole cylinder with air/fuel mix, it fills it with air and squirts in a little bit of fuel like a diesel. The clever part is that the injector and piston head are carefully designed to ensure that the fuel hangs around the spark plug just long enough to ignite, and with jut enough air.

Bloody clever it is, and only possible with modern tech and computer design iirc. Having said that other manufacturers do it too. Popular in the US where diesels are not.

My midget will do 47 mpg, thats 150motorway miles and 80miles of "going for a drive" in the Peak district.

And thats with a really low diff ratio!

I think it's burning sparkplugs though, 2000miles since the new ones and it was missfiring on acceleration and popping on the overun this morning, so probably running a bit lean.

@coffeeking, they're pretty too, I like!
@molgrips, if you were as crap at parking as I am you would want a smaller car too. Besides, I just want a smaller car having driven the neighbours' Rover 25. The larges I'd go for is a Celica, but won't do it as yet, maybe one day. Thanks for the explanation re TSI, didn't know 🙂

Molgrips, no its a 1.6FSI A2. The A2 is a brilliant car, well ahead of its time, and not classed as a proper Audi by Audi dealerships.

Heh.

I've got the self parking, but it's not particularly handy since it takes a while to set up. When on a busy street or carpark people behind get annoyed if you fanny about for 30s adjusting the target if it hasn't got it right. And sometimes lining the car up so it finds the target is harder than just parking.

However I'd still say test drive one if you get the chance since it really is easy to handle.

How small you wanna go though? There's the Jazz to consider, great car. If I wanted small petrol I can't think of much else I'd prefer. And now also available in hybrid form.. if you are feeling flush.

Jazz? Forgot about them completely.

Hairychested - Member
if you were as crap at parking as I am you would want a smaller car too.

Hyrbid Jazz just out, 62mpg extra urban and 62mpg round town..! £16k tho.

I thought the Prius had that park its self ability??

It does, read my above tho.

£16k for a car??????? Does it give you head every morning? £3k would be an absolute max regardless of my material situation. It isn't a V-Max to justify spending so much IMO.

You didn't specify budget 🙂

Might not find a Jazz for that price...

The Astra (Si, I think) pool car I used told me it had did 50mpg and I thrashed the bugger. If driving was fun, I would say that was a fun car to chuck around.

Don't the VW/Audi FSI's need super-unleaded?

My 1.8 Honda Civic sport (~150bhp?) currently averages 42-ish mpg, but it improves somewhat if I'm pootling at 50-60mph. I'm reasonably happy with that!

The SO wants a diesel Audi A2 which I think is an excellent choice...
HTH

We've always got about 10 miles per litre whenever I've bothered to check . That's an older Scenic.

My mum's 1.4 Honda Jazz (08 plate) does a real 49mpg in combined driving.

My 330ci does about 34combined, so it should be possible.

Ohh and the 1.5 yaris t-sport does a real 42mpg combined and they're pretty fast too.

Anything that's light weight will do okay with small petrol engines.

Don't the VW/Audi FSI's need super-unleaded?

Wouldn't have thought they needed it, but they probably benefit from it.

A real life 45mpg is perfectly achievable I'm my golf TSI.

Serious question:

How many people on this thread are quoting MPG figures off trip computers or from manufacturers figures?

Becasue neither are anywhere near accurate.

MPG computers can be accurate. Some of us test and compare them 🙂

Some of us test and compare them

Can't beat good old maths and a geeky obsessiveness.....

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5687230132_88a6853048_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5687230132_88a6853048_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/5687230132/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

These days I do it electronically, but I sould our last car (to Solamanda off here) with about 45,000 miles of fuel figures written down in a little notebook.....And I've been doing that since I got my 2nd car in 1991.

Yep. I am really that sad.
🙂

EDIT
The dip in that graph is our holiday with the bikes on the back for 9 days, driving round the Peaks and Northumberland

I'm not that obsessive 🙂 I compare a few tankfuls here and there under different conditions, so I know the general gist. Seems on both my cars it can over or under read, but not by much. Of course it's not a solid figure but I don't really need one. For me it just lets me evaluate my driving habits.

I'm not that obsessive

Not many people are, sunshine! I'm proudly geeky with fuel.
FWIW the trip computer in our Focus over reads by anywhere from 0.5 to 3 or 4 mpg. It's not even consitant, but yes, it's a handy guide to have available. 🙂

(I was gutten when I changed my phone in October and managed to wipe all the data I had sored in there...)

Why so geeky? Curiosity or a desire to save it?

Here's one to make you car drivers cry into your deisel tanks:

[img][url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5686700265_a0a257a6fb_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5270/5686700265_a0a257a6fb_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/5686700265/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr[/img]

😉

Any opinions on Peugeot 307 petrol? Cheap as chips, any users here?

See to me that looks awful. Only 15% more than my Prius and I get four seats, aircon, a heater, a windscreen, a stereo, four wheels, four times the top speed and I can drive it naked if I want.

Curiosity or a desire to save it?

Hard to say TBH. Bit of both I think. It's so ffffing expensive these days.

More habit than anything else I think, like the way I look after my vehicles. How many people check their tyre pressures, fluids, lights etc regularly? I do.
For instance, I remember our diesel Vectra used to use about 1.5l of oil between services, so needed topping up occasionally. The Focus uses very little, so it does 10k without a top up. That sort of thing I just find handy to know

(To be fair, I'm a good person to buy a used car or bike from. It'll have been looked after!)

four times the top speed

Didn't know a Prius could do 300+ mph!?!?!

(That's a 200cc engine. Cruises at 70mph, will do nearly 80. The newer model's injected 250cc engine will do 10mpg more)

And A to B will wipe the floor with any car you care to mention. 😛

And we paid £900 and will most likely get the same price back when we sell it, maybe a bit more 🙂

EDIT
Oh, the dip in the graph was caused by fitting a BIG windscreen for the winter. It knocks the fuel quite a bit. It's now getting more MPG than it was before winter becasue I replaced the drive belt and serviced it. A worn drive belt lowers the gearing, see, so it revs higer for the same speed.....)

@molgrips, show us you can 🙂

I also like to save fuel without making undue compromises. I've experimented with tyre pressures - I found that higher pressures in the Prius don't add much fuel economy and make the ride unacceptable, for example.

I've also really concentrated on driving style. Lots of subtle things you can do to save a fair bit of fuel and still be able to drive at the speed limit. In the Passat on my work commute for instance I can beat the extra-urban figure consistently, which is quite hard.

I also found out that when driving to Aldershot, in the Prius I could improve my average for the trip on the A/B road section from J11 to Aldershot, but in the Passat I could only maintain it 🙂

I'm now a big fan of low RR tyres too, especially Nokians.

Didn't know a Prius could do 300+ mph

Oh fair point, I assumed it was a 50cc, even though you've said before and I forgot 🙂

Still, I'd have hoped for more from a scooter.

There's something to be said about little cars with bigger engines. mrs rocket has an ST Fiesta which is a proppa point-and-shoot go kart but it is also torquey enough to pull away in 2nd, short-shift into top and drive around in 5th until you have to stop. Does easy mid/high 40s when driven like this but for some reason only returns low 30s when I drive it.

Driving bigger engines more gently often makes them less thermodynamically efficient.. but there are lots of factors. Revving the tits off a small engine reduces pumping losses but increases losses through the exhaust. I've heard people report that their huge old American V8s actually return higher MPG at 80mph than 70mph.

Still, I'd have hoped for more from a scooter

Yeah, most people do expect that. But bike angines rev like crazy to get the power (They don't need much torque) That 200cc engine makes 21bhp for instance.

Like I said, that a carb fed 02 model, and the newer injected ones are better, and you can get a 125 that'll do 110mpg if you really want, or an 800cc BMW that will do 65+mpg

The flip side is that servicing is very cheap for the Vespa (think DIY) and that MPG figure stays pretty much the same no matter what you do with it: Heavy traffic or longer rides, there's not much change.

Not better or worse really, just more fun and faster, but also open to the elements and lacking carring capacity, although we can do the weekly shop with it pretty easily

(Aircon is standard on all bikes though, obviously. Has been for MANY years...)

EDIT
All bikes have shockingly poor aerodynamics too, which doesn't help

I've experimented with tyre pressures - I found that higher pressures in the Prius don't add much fuel economy and make the ride unacceptable, for example.

I've just tried this too, and after a quick test I reckon it does make a slight difference. Still looking at that though. Not much difference in ride, but it does go a bit skippy round rough roundabouts when I'm, err, 'not slowing down for them very much' 🙂

Just a thought, but is the Prius reletivly heavy with the batteries etc? Maybe it needs firmer suspension to cope with that so upping tyre pressure makes it feel worse?

I've alo really concentrated on driving style. Lots of subtle things you can do to save a fair bit of fuel and still be able to drive at the speed limit. In the Passat on my work commute for instance I can beat the extra-urban figure consistently, which is quite hard.

Go on then, do share. Serious, not taking the mick. 🙂

.

If I had a long urban or suburban commute and couldn't ride a bike, I'd get a scooter without a second thought. They are cool. However we've ended up with two cars due to circumstances.

Yeah I know what you mean. Mrs PP gets a lift to work now I'm working away, or takes the scooter if theres no lift. 19 miles....

Not much difference in ride, but it does go a bit skippy round rough roundabouts when I'm, err, 'not slowing down for them very much'

I found that when running at the 44/42 that the US people were advocating. So much so that I pulled over and let them down there and then 😯

Prius is not really heavy - you gain a battery but lose most of a gearbox. Mine is 1300kg or so, new one is 1400kg, between say a Golf and a Passat which is about where it is in size terms. Mine has a medium ride rather than soft or firm which is not bad since you can corner it faster than the Passat and keep up momentum (hence saving fuel 🙂 ).

Generally, on open roads I keep the cruise on. Creeping imperceptable acceleration really knackers your mpg. On windy roads I coast as much as possible (by lifting off the throttle almost all the way, the Prius rolls really well like this with either no power or a bit of electric) and just giving it a burst of medium pedal at the right moment. A bit like riding a pump track really.

Doesn't work as well in the Passat because you are always fighting engine braking.

Best fuel consumption figure I've had out of my 1.6 Astra SXI is 51mpg. Didn't do anything to the tyre pressures just made sure I kept my acceleration gentle and my speed as consistent as possible ( I do however suspect the tyre wear induced by speeding through corners and roundabouts at high speed may negate the fuel cost savings!). I normally get mid to high forties out of it if I drive carefully. In my dads little 1.2 Fiat Panda its very difficult to not get MPG levels in the mid fifties.

I am lucky in that I live in a very hilly part of the country so I can coast down lots of long hills in fifth gear and still maintain a decent pace. I think what is most important when trying to get the best MPG possible out of your car is adopting the right state of mind; everybody else on the road may be going faster than you but ultimately they are burning through the petrol, and their money, far faster as well.

new shape fiesta 1.6 petrol hovers in the mid 40s for me can get into 50s with careful driving

made sure I kept my acceleration gentle

Not necessarily the best plan. I find mid-throttle on lower revs then holding steady speed is best. Fewer pumping losses.

How about an 08 skoda fabia 3 105 auto, orangey/bronzey colour, 1598cc with around 9000 miles on the clock. 16v as well. 5 door hatch., petrol.

made sure I kept my acceleration gentle

Not necessarily the best plan

Works well in the Astra, the engine is pretty flexible low down in the rev range. I also tend to block shift up through the gears if traffic is light and I don't need to get up to speed in a hurry. I spend a lot of time in my car for work and I've had a couple of years to figure out the best way to stretch the fuel economy out.

orangey/bronzey colour

Very low drag colour that, ideal for high MPG 😀

I get around 41mpg (according to the computer) out of my Civic Type S. I'm not what you'd call careful about fuel consumption either, so yeah, economical and petrol is indeed possible.

Just got back from Ikea 🙂 Got told to hang on with buying a smaller car, she needs, ehem!, to get a few things. I reckon unless the 406 dies it'll stay for a bit longer. But if she changes her job I'll change the car. Maybe a 307? 2.0 HDi 110BHP ideally. Not sure it'd be any cheaper to run but more fun to drive I suppose.

Our Octavia 1.6fsi shows 39.9 on the total trip computer, and on a decent motorway stretch I'll get about 44mpg. Around town, keeping the revs below 2k (really boring, a fair bit chuggy, but was an experiment!) I got 43mpg.

Can easily get 400-450 miles from a tankfull (about £65 most places).

I really should see how 'real life' figures compare...

DrP

Maybe a 307? 2.0 HDi 110BHP

I thought you said no diesel?

I did, I also had a very large tumbler of Bells before I posted it. I should've said diesel would be ideal but petrols are so much cheaper I might need to go for one instead.
What annoys me is the fact most cars are so much taller than they used to be. A 307 is waaaay taller than an old Civic, a new-ish Golf towers over an old Accord too. It makes them noisier, less stable, ugly and I don't like it.
I wish they made the proper Civic again:
[img] [/img]

Honda Jazz 1.4 petrol here. Have averaged up to 58mpg (actual) over a full tank for rural driving, will do 50mpg at 70. Fits five bikes in the back with the seats down, or one in the boot with them all up, or three with one rear seat up. 80k on the clock and no faults yet. Awesome car.

What annoys me is the fact most cars are so much taller than they used to be.

They realised that you can get much more passenger room in the same sized car by making everyone sit up a little higher.

Bigger cars are lower down, it seems.

hairychested even the new civic type r's are being stopped for the UK due to pesky emission controls.