It’s what you don’t see that’s the issue tj, namely folks still going into each others houses.
Yip.
Up here in Clarkston, it's being well adhered to. I imagine a wander around the likes of Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Barmulloch etc might paint a slightly different picture.
I can’t work from home
The problem here then is a discrepancy between those who really have to work (key workers) and those who are still working but in non-essential activities.
This is going to be an issue I think this time around.
There are plenty of industries/businesses that are still legitimately operating that don't count as 'key work'. If the work can be done without social contact I guess why not until we get to the point where we are concerned about folk travelling too.
But child care is the issue. Who pays for the adult to stay at home because their child is either isolated or the school is closed when the employer expects them to be physically at work and/or the business depends on being open to survive? Can an employer furlough in those circumstances?
But on the flip side my wife is being pressurised into going into the HQ at least some of the week as the director feels it is better for bonding a new team. The firm are care providers (care homes) but she works in head office. The company feel this is ok as the whole company are in a key sector. The finance team are working in the office full time not because they can't wfh (they did it for months) but because they asked to as they felt their mental health was suffering at home. This is from a director who's home is in Northern Ireland and who has not left his NI home since March - not even to stand in the gardens of his care homes to say hello and give moral support. She has said no.
I live in a very mixed area. Gentrified yes but still big amounts of council housing and a very split population between the gentrified incomers and the old leithers. the good compliance I see involved both groups.
Looks like we've all forgotten just how quiet the roads were back in March too. Current Tier 4 is nowhere near that
Joda; I can't understand that. Are you 100% sure that remained the case? In my authority they softened that approach as so few children attended the hub.
Well this is weird I'm sitting in the opticians waiting for a lens check, not top priority. But the computer says no lenses until I'm checked. Only open shop on the high street as I came through.
Onehundredthidiot, I had that with spec savers, they couldn't give me an appointment for a month at the time, I went to an online lens supplier in the meantime. Turns out when I could make my appointment my prescription is the same with no change to my lens.
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BoardinBob
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It’s what you don’t see that’s the issue tj, namely folks still going into each others houses.
Yip.
Up here in Clarkston, it’s being well adhered to. I imagine a wander around the likes of Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Barmulloch etc might paint a slightly different picture.
Wow can’t believe you actually wrote that. You need to do some unconscious bias training.
Only open shop on the high street as I came through
This is a Scottish bank holiday so even some of the "essential" shops may be closed today
Good point re bank holiday.
Optician told me she's getting the vaccine as they are high priority seeing the public she has supplied PPE.
I may have had a slight "well lucky you" moment. No PPE, no vaccine and 120 kids a day with no concept of social distancing when we open again.
I know you don’t like dogs but ffs stop being a knob about it.
Au contraire, I love dogs, it's the body at the other end of the rope that's more chance of being a dick.
I was happy to see the Hawick homosexual hiking club out yesterday. Well I assume that’s what the 2older male couples were. 4 people from 2 different households meeting outside. Well done them.
Our running club is allowed to train in tier 4 in groups of up to 8 with a covid officer in place, and contact details taken.
Well done you.
Our running club is allowed to train in groups of up to 8 with a covid officer in place, and contact details taken.
Out of interest was the RA the covid officer did (it's not just a covid officer you need, but the actions they take) dictate that the 8 stay socially distanced? And do they? New variant and running through the steamy breath of the puffer in front of you statistically is going to go wrong very quickly. Never has it been so advantageous to be the lead runner of a group!
Sadly I can report a bit of a melee at the Hayfield carpark, just before the closed snow gates up to the skiing in Aviemore. Lots of families sledging which is brilliant but clearly lots of obvious non socially distanced interactions between parents from different families. When they next drop their kids at the school gates the same adults will be further apart and compelled to wear masks. Cross country skiers seemed to be getting it right but multiple walking/climbing groups arriving (4 men of similar age unmasked in one car seen a few times) did not look like a brilliant advert. I guess they could all be one household..........
I don't know tbh convert, I've not ran with the club since this started, pretty sure they'll distance though.
We did the breath trail thing months ago, I'm not going back there! 🙈😂
Sadly I can report a bit of a melee at the Hayfield carpark, just before the closed snow gates up to the skiing in Aviemore. Lots of families sledging which is brilliant but clearly lots of obvious non socially distanced interactions between parents from different families. When they next drop their kids at the school gates the same adults will be further apart and compelled to wear masks. Cross country skiers seemed to be getting it right but multiple walking/climbing groups arriving (4 men of similar age unmasked in one car seen a few times) did not look like a brilliant advert. I guess they could all be one household……….
And they've mostly arrived from high infection areas.
I'm hoping they will be more aggressive in their policing of the lockdown. My neighbours are constantly having people over and the amount of IG pictures showing people riding or climbing mountains miles from their LA is pretty shocking.
That sort of thing is what annoys me Scotroutes. Being one of the majority following the rules but having to cope with them being deeper and longer because of the minority who don't. I suppose i expect the government not just to set restrictions appropriate to the risk but also to enforce them so they are effective. I'd love to have spent last week there but didn't because rules.
Was at South Queensferry yesterday and was amazed at the number of flights going overhead. We're not allowed out of the Council area but international flights can come and go - what's that all about then?
I’m hoping they will be more aggressive in their policing of the lockdown
Police Scotland are not interested. They've recently launched an online reporting form but it only lets you report groups of folk gathering (indoors I guess). Nothing about folk who are travelling across regional boundaries. Now, I'm not having a go at individuals because there are always resourcing/manpower issues, and we can't expect every car/van to be stopped en route, but surely it just needs a few high profile, well publicised interventions to scare the shit out of folk. After all, that's how we handle customs checks.
Wow can’t believe you actually wrote that. You need to do some unconscious bias training.
The stats dont lie
The areas in Glasgow with the highest infection rates are overwhelmingly the poorer areas.
I thought there had been some?
The areas in Glasgow with the highest infection rates are overwhelmingly the poorer areas.
and is that because
a) they are deliberately obeying the rules less?
b) they tend to have more crowded housing
c) population densities are higher
d) its actually much harder to stick to the rules when there are 6 of you in a small flat compared to 4 of you in a big house with a garden
e) Poorer shopping and so on in the area means more crowding in shops
f) they have poorer health in general so are more likely to catch it
Correlation is not causation
and is that because
a) they are deliberately obeying the rules less?
It would appear so.
Again - is that because they ar4e obey the rules less willfully? Or is it because they are being policed more heavily ( much easier to do in a scheme than a suburb) or is it just they are found out more - much harder to hide a party in a scheme of flats than in a suburb of detached houses
anecdotally I see more middle class folk breaking the rules
Or is it because they are being policed more heavily ( much easier to do in a scheme than a suburb) or is it just they are found out more – much harder to hide a party in a scheme of flats than in a suburb of detached houses
Or is it because people living in poorer areas (allegedly, I don't really know the areas in question) have sod all else to do? It's much easier to endure lockdown if you have a turbo trainer in the garage, a full Sky subscription, a nice selection of whisky on the shelf etc. etc.
Partying is a lifestyle of sorts, I guess for some people that might be all they have which will make it all the harder to give up, look at all the posts on here with people fearing for their mental health because their local trails aren't gnarly enough so they *have* to drive to Glentress etc. etc.
Not justifying it, just find the demographics/psychology etc. interesting.
I "see" more middle-class rule-breaking because that's who own the second homes and, in the main, are travelling to take part in outdoor activities in the area. That's not to say that some locals aren't doing the much the same. We know that many of the younger generation (the immortals) have been ignoring the socialising rules from day 1. I guess they felt it didn't matter quite so much as they were less susceptible. I don't think the implications of the new strain have made any difference.
surely it just needs a few high profile, well publicised interventions to scare the shit out of folk.
Yup. I think that's what NZ / Aus did at the start - jailed people for a few weeks and gave that coverage. Here there is low risk of getting caught and negligible risk of meaningful sanctions.
I'm with TJ on this ( edit and 13thfloormonk) - it must be so much harder for some communities and folk are much faster to judge. Improvements can be made however.
Anecdotally I've also had a few people (all men actually) in manual jobs (i.e. those not wfh) say words to the effect of 'I spend all day around people at work so what's the point of making home life miserable?'. I see this as an need to educate point however - I can say with 100% confidence I am yet to see (around here) two/three people sitting in the front of a work transit or the front of a bin lorry with masks on. Not once. To a certain extent they are right - they are exposed at work. Their fault, or at least peer pressure, but they are. With (to my mind) very twisted logic they see that as a reason to do what they like at home rather than a reason to be extra careful. As a teacher I've also been not working from home and surrounded by people. I don't however know a teacher who has not been a bit obsessive about mask wearing at work and who has not effectively shut themselves away from their older relatives. Two similar personal exposure concerns but (anecdotally) approached in very different ways. But whose fault is that?
The problem here then is a discrepancy between those who really have to work (key workers) and those who are still working but in non-essential activities.
My employer is forcing me out the door although there is not exactly much work for me to do at the moment!
Joda; I can’t understand that. Are you 100% sure that remained the case? In my authority they softened that approach as so few children attended the hub.
Unfortunately no softening! I know some of the staff that worked in the hub the first time round and it was half empty. They were gobsmacked they refused us. Twice! We've reapplied but the rules on the application form remain the same i.e both parents must be key workers!
. I don’t however know a teacher who has not been a bit obsessive about mask wearing at work and who has not effectively shut themselves away from their older relatives
👋 I hardly bother with a mask at work. I only put one on when I go close to the kids. Only reason I don’t see my dad is that he is in a different LA.
My employer is forcing me out the door although there is not exactly much work for me to do at the moment!
And that's the sort of enforced change the Govt has to make (again).
and is that because
a) they are deliberately obeying the rules less?It would appear so.
Theres no meaningful information in that graph
Wow can’t believe you actually wrote that. You need to do some unconscious bias training.
I wouldn't say he's far from the truth. Yes your middle class rule breakers will be away up the hills with their pals but in the bottom end of Stevenston Jock fae the cross will have half the town passing through his shed drinking from his bar and watching the Rangers game.
Theres no meaningful information in that graph
Looking at the North Ayrshire heat map of cases per 100k it absolutely correlated to areas with the highest poverty (until West Kilbride got hit). Up near 280 in Bourtreehill and down at 2 in Largs.
I agree they need to stop the softly softly approach for everyone, day trippers and house partiers alike.
I thought the hand sanitiser thing was a red herring? I remember reading there was no proof anyone had caught it from surface contamination. Yes it's better to be safe but only works if no clatty bugger has been touching everything on the shelves before you.
surely it just needs a few high profile, well publicised interventions to scare the shit out of folk.
Someone like Dominic Cummings or Stanley Johnson maybe 🙂
I wouldn’t say he’s far from the truth. Yes your middle class rule breakers will be away up the hills with their pals but in the bottom end of Stevenston Jock fae the cross will have half the town passing through his shed drinking from his bar and watching the Rangers game.
You could look a lot closer to home than Stevenston, Largs has some tasty bits too. (And the cross ain't in the bottom end) 🙂
2 guys I saw blootered in a house watching the game with half a dozen others both work where you do, I wonder how that would go down? Couldn't believe they had it on instagram tbh.
After reading about the "melee" at Cairn Gorm I'm fairly relieved that Nevis Range took the difficult decision and closed some weeks ago.
After reading about the “melee” at Cairn Gorm I’m fairly relieved that Nevis Range took the difficult decision and closed some weeks ago.
I'm not sure that's relevant. Cairngorm Mountain ski area is closed - as are the snow gates on the road.
The problem here then is a discrepancy between those who really have to work (key workers) and those who are still working but in non-essential activities.
Theres always been a problem of language - in the first lockdown a lot of business shut down or curtailed their activated who hadn't actually been instructed to. 'Essential' was being used in different contexts with the various messages being put out by the government. Although the current measures are hardly any different to the 'full lockdown' - the only real exception being schools - in the first lockdown there was a greater level of cessation of work and business than the government had actually mandated.
We used 'essential' to describe key workers
We used 'essential' to describe kinds of retailer or premises
and we used 'essential' to describe kinds of travel - travel essential for work
People understood the latter to mean only people who's work was deemed essential should travel and it took a while to realise that wasn't the case. People over-complied - perfectly within the spirit of the lockdown and to the broader public benefit - but that over-compliance isn't sustainable. If we instated a lockdown today, which to the letter was exactly the same as April of last year - it would look and feel completely different.
You could look a lot closer to home than Stevenston, Largs has some tasty bits too. (And the cross ain’t in the bottom end) 🙂
Oh I know, I wrote a bit more in my edit. And yeah the locals have started talking about parties but the shed pubs have been going on since the summer.
SK you got a link to that heatmap? interested to have a look, cheers.
I didn't know that Scotroutes thanks. Still seeing visitors and second home owners here too
If the snow gates had been open (and the road cleared) it would actually have had the effect of reducing crowding at Glenmore/Hayfield.
Not sure if that gives a direct link, if you have a list go to view by neighbourhood then select your LA. If North Ayrshire go back to mid December and work from there.
MEN ISSUED WITH FIXED PENALTY NOTICES FOLLOWING TRAVEL BREACH TO CLIMB MUNRO
On Thursday, 31 December, 2020, police assisted mountain rescue team (MRT) partners on Buachaille Etive Mòr near Glencoe after two men hiking had got into difficulty descending the Munro. One of the men had sustained a leg injury which resulted in 25 members of Glencoe Mountain Rescue attending on foot to locate the men and safely assist them off the hill.
The injured man was taken by land ambulance to hospital for assessment. During the rescue, a member of Glencoe MRT suffered an injury which is currently undergoing medical assessment.
Inspector Kevin Macleod from Highlands & Islands Police Division said: “The men had travelled from Oban to hike this route, and found themselves in difficultly as the light was fading at 3.25pm when police and MRT were called.
“The rescue took a total of 108 man hours and the team stood down at 7.30pm. Both men, aged 21 and 27, were issued with fixed penalty notices for breaching travel regulations.
"We continue to ask people to take personal responsibility to do the right thing and remember the purpose of these measures is to aid the collective effort to protect the NHS and save lives by preventing the virus from spreading."
Andy Neilson, Team Leader from Glencoe Mountain Rescue said: “We will always continue to provide the vital MRT service that we are committed to, however, the volunteers assisting the men did feel vulnerable due to the inevitable close contact required and we have to prioritise the health of our members in order to continue to provide this vital service."
Wow. They'd travelled from as far away as Oban to Glencoe
Aye, no exactly far, but they're fair game to get hammered for being fannies.
Hmmmm - reading that.....was planning on (NS's announcement later not withstanding) a night out over the back (not quite sure where Loch Avon first choice, but technically out of LA as in Moray) tomorrow night on my last night of freedom before work kicks off.
I'd be inside my own LA but I do wonder if we are getting into No Gnarr, Not far, Rule 1 territory again.....
Aye, no exactly far, but they’re fair game to get hammered for being fannies.
Yes, but the dangers is that it puts folk off from contacting emergency services when needed. Meanwhile, the Polis could have just put up a roadblock on the exit from the White Corries and issued FPNs to everyone outside the region. That would have had a farther-reaching effect.
