MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I've finally taken the bold (and in my industry, fairly unique) decision to reduce working hours for a better lifestyle. Thats the plan anyway, my boss seems to think I'll magically fit a 60 hour week into 4 days but hey ho.
Anyway, I'm taking mondays off and its been approved! Partly because we have generally fewer work commitments at the start of the week and partly because my wife doesnt work mondays.
I had calculated a reduction slightly less than 20% because 4 monday* bank holidays - I'll be non-working on 48 of the 52 mondays, so reducing 48 days of 255 working days = 18.8% reduction.
Payroll have come back and said Bank Holidays are calculated as part of the holiday entitlement - fair enough. But if I was to take, say, wednesdays off, I'd get all of them PLUS 4 bank holidays so the way I see it is I'm losing out on 4 days holiday.
Am I right? Are they right? Anyone else come across this? What should the calculation be?
*5 days this year due to Xmas BH I know
my wife's a teacher and doesn't work Mondays, but her pay is just directly dropped by 20% - bank holidays don't come into it. I suspect it depends on the employer
Bank holidays are usually forced holidays, e.g. they count as part of your holiday entitlement but you have to take them off. For the purpose of any calculation like this thats the best way of thinking of it.
Dropping to 4 days should correspondingly drop some holiday entitlement, but at a basic level you should separate holiday entitlement from salary or you're getting fleeced. Work it out as 80% of your salary is what you get paid, 80% of your previous holiday entitlement is your new holiday entitlement, including BH and you're just fine. Try and do it any other way and you'll end up in knots I reckon.
Assuming you don't have to book BH...
In theory your holiday will reduce by 20% but you'll get back 80% of your statutory holidays attributed to bank holidays so in theory your bookable allowance will actually go up but you'll need to take holiday for things like Christmas and good Friday
So if you currently get 25 days + bankholidays, but are forced to take the BH off...
0.8*25+0.8*8=26.4 days.
4 days for Christmas new year boxing day and good Friday =22.4 bookable days.
When I dropped to 4 days (Friday off) it was a simple 20% pay cut, with holidays worked out separately. You still get Bank Holidays on any day of the week, so I think it makes sense doing it this way.
I have Weds off and the starting point was 80% salary, 80% annual leave entitlement but then as a part timer bank hols aren't automatically considered as leave and I get given a day's leave for each bank holiday I'd be working, then have to book those bank holidays as leave. Not many fall on a Weds!
Mrs P also took Weds off but her place expected bank hols to be booked from the leave allowance (so 8 days extra normally given) but she agreed that total leave would be 80% of the previous figure which has left her a bit disadvantaged.
Hmm seems to be a precedent for straight 20% off pay and holidays then, no matter which day you take off. Thanks Dangeourbrian that calc equates to the holiday calc they've given me too.
Right I'll shut up then, but always worth querying these things!
When I dropped to 4 days (Friday off) it was a simple 20% pay cut, with holidays worked out separately. You still get Bank Holidays on any day of the week, so I think it makes sense doing it this way.
Though they disproportionately fall on a Monday, potentially 6 per year, vs potentially 3 on a Friday or two on any other day.
By simply dropping your pay 20% you're receiving an increase in your holidays if you go to anything including Monday in your working week whereas if you work not-Monday would see a reduction in your holiday.
As a result if you drop Mondays and a straight 20%, unless your pro-rata contractual leave is reduced your employer is breaking the law by denying you statutory leave.
So no, it doesn't make sense to do it that way.
Set up a spreadsheet!
I don't do Mondays and it works like this for me.
80% pay, 80% holidays. That includes getting 80% of the 8 (?) bank holidays a year. Because some of those bank holidays fall on a Monday I get the time back in lieu. So in some years I get more days than others depending on when Xmas is.
Not doing Mondays also means I effectively get an extra week of holiday in the year as well as a 4 day week. There are other options which are to get paid for the bank holidays but that get's complicated as well. You end up with fractions of hours but I rounded up to the nearest half day. I'm fairly confident I'll go over my contracted hours.
If you take off a Wednesday you still get 80% of the bank holidays. At my old place this meant you had to take 1 and a bit days of holiday to get all the bank holidays off. I think you could take them unpaid as well.
It can be a bit complicated and for some reason many people supposed to implement it don't understand it. I think it took me 3 attempts at a new contract! My wife does 85% taking part days Tue and Fri which is even more complicated!
Mrs P also took Weds off but her place expected bank hols to be booked from the leave allowance (so 8 days extra normally given) but she agreed that total leave would be 80% of the previous figure which has left her a bit disadvantaged.
If I read that correctly before reducing hours Mrs P received leave +8 days for BH,
so eg based on 25 days bookable and a 5 day week, 25 days +8, 33 days.
BH are a working day for a full time employee so needed to be booked from that 33 days, back to 25?
She now works 4 days over 5 and receives 80% of the 33 days = 26.4 days (same as mentioned up there)
If that's the case she's no worse off at all and it's done correctly.
It only doesn't work if you're employer doesn't expect you to work BH because they're closed or otherwise, in which case it all goes wrong with your statutory holiday.
This issue largely stems from employers not making clear how your holiday allowance is made up, It really should be clear that you are given
5.6weeks statutory (28 days based on a 5 day week which includes 8 days generally allocated for bank holidays.)
Anything above that is contractual.
Your leave request on day 1 of the year for most people really should look like:
8 days mandatory - Bank Holidays.
20 days statutory - must be taken in the year, no carry over, required to take by law. Always used first.
Additional contractual leave, optional (depending on your contract use it or lose it, possibly carry over some of all)
Cheers, holidays are a bit arbitrary as I'm often working at weekends, bank holidays or when on leave anyway. All part of the job!
We have our bank Holidays that count as part of our leave/salary allowance and if we are off shift on a bank holiday we are just off, but if we are off sick on a bank holiday even if we were not meant to be in work due to shifts we actually owe them a days leave back makes no sense but I suspect many companies uses some kind of holiday/public holiday/salary formula
I'm on a 4 day week, actually 30 hours over 4 days, it's a straight hourly pay rate and pro rata leave, with bank holidays on top.
Made a huge difference to my work/life balance, means I can deal with ageing parents and busy teenagers without losing a chunk of my weekend.
I'm also 4 days with Wednesday off. 20% salary reduction but that was then rounded up to a nicer number (small company). I still get all the bank holidays plus 80% of holiday allowance. I think I got an extra day as well when Christmas fell on a Wednesday.
Testing if this updates my front page.
It depends on your employer my wife went from 5 to 3 days having Monday and Friday off. Her employer added bank holidays to her annual leave and then gave her 60% off that which means she gets more bookable leave
We don't work bank holidays. We calculate part time workers holidays by taking the full allowance of 30 days + 8 bank holidays = 41 * 0.8 = 33 days in your case (we round up a bit). If you don't work Mondays then in 2021 you need to use three of the 6.4 days you get for bank holidays to book off New Years Day, Good Friday & Boxing Day. That leaves you about 3.5 days of your BH allowance to use at other times.
As said above sometimes this way is better sometimes it is worse it depends on the year.
Forgot to say enjoy your long weekends you will not regret it. We may all have to work longer so make time now whilst you are fit enough to enjoy MTB etc.
Forgot to say enjoy your long weekends you will not regret it. We may all have to work longer so make time now whilst you are fit enough to enjoy MTB etc.
Very much this - my parents, who retired at 58, can't believe I do a 4 day week and are adamant I should be working and scrimping and saving for a retirement.
Or I can get by on a 4 day week, enjoy rides while I have my health, and take them out a couple of times a month now they aren't as independent.
I'm on a 4 day week with a rolling [s]day off [/s] overtime day. My annual leave balance is not used for BHs, but if my day off falls on a BH, I get an annual leave credit so I can take that day when I choose. Which is better, as I can pick my BHs!