MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
The essence of capitalism is that you do as little as possible because you will be paid as little as possible.
Er no, it's the opposite in fact. There are lots of people in that situation, but that's a side-effect not the actual aim.
As for me I'm not a capitalist
Your lifestyle however has been made possible by capitalists.
Enough shit talk!
You started so well then defecated all over your own post.
Hahahaha!
No molgrips my life style was made possible by Nicolai Tesla and he was most assuredly not a capitalist.
Capitalists always try and make out that they have driven our society forwards rather than held it back. The current situation is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work.
Tesla could have advanced our race technologically by thousands of years with sufficient support, instead that **** up Edison and all the other retarded capitalists of the day simply opposed him, to the extent of burning down one of his labs.
You genius's stay here and argue over the details of why the biggest bunch of **** ups the world has ever known have ended up in a **** ed up situation, I have an escape from the DOOMED capitalists plan to work on and intend to help as many decent people as I can along the way, so long suckers!
As for me I'm not a capitalist
Dont you run your own business whereby you sell goods for more than you pay for them?
You are the very definition of a capitalist.
Your lifestyle however has been made possible by capitalists.
Mixed economy therefore educated by the state, kept healthy by the state.
Its too simplistic a statement, we all owe our existence to both the state and to capitalism ...we could debate which contributed the most but it would be pointless
Surely that's your particular hospital or trust or whatever it is?
Yes I know... [i]I checked on the [b]Trust[/b] website... I am in the middle of a complaint to the [b]Trust[/b][/i]
You know they're run separately nowadays don't you?
See above
And I hope you are not overlooking the fact that you didn't get a bill for it.
Not the point.
*ignores JY*
*feels guilty*
Are you the reincarnation of Chairman Mao? You seem very angry? Have you got access to nuclear weapons?
MF - and it has been explaied to you a part of the reason why it is like this - and also I bet it is a contracted out meal service ( is it?)
sententious ...happy now DD?
Have I missed a joke at my expense somewhere on the interwebz?
M-F as a a vegan i failed to get 5 fruit and veg a day in hospital and ended up on a diet of am on toast and chips.
They did next to F all when i complained...good luck.
When my eldest was in we had to bring him in meals
What do you do for a living kaesae? sound pretty impressive to me! seriously!
That has no [b]bearing[/b]* on the issue or his point
* he sells bearing on ebay and i assume via other means hence why he is free of the capitalist system
MF - and it has been explaied to you a part of the reason why it is like this - and also I bet it is a contracted out meal service ( is it?)
I don't *think* it is, the dinner lady said food was prepared onsite (not that means it isn't contracted out of course). I will find out when I have my meeting. Interestingly, all other wards get a full menu and choice (by filling in a form beforehand). But the children's ward only get the beans and potato menu! And surely it's kids that should be encouraged to eat properly? Bizarre.
Yeah i knew that, i thought he meant he had changed jobs....actually that means i dont really understand the reference to Nikola Tesla in thhat case.
When my eldest was in we had to bring him in meals
We struggled but tried - two young and ill and demanding children meant we were both with them for the main part. Instead we supplemented with the food available in the hospital vending machines - crisps, sweets, chocolate...
i dont really understand the reference to Nikola Tesla in thhat case.
You will not be alone in not really understanding his posts or his points.
M-F yes its hard but as vegan you get used to there often being no food and luckily there was a supermarket opposite the hospital.
First day been in hospital since 10 am with both kids and me and they brought a bowl of chips [ 7 pm] as a meal for the eldest only and just said they did not have to feed me or his crying brother [ about 3 ish at the time]
It is shocking the NHS cannot meeet the 5 fruit and veg a day for someone who only eats fruit and veg
Could you not just have had an omelette?
The main reason for crap hospital food is again - money. its an easy place to attack budgets
Hence crap food. However they should be able to cater for vegans but I do not really see why families shuld be fed except in rare circumstances
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The capitalist free market system has reached a pretty logical conclusion hasn't it?
If you create a process where those at the top get stronger and those at the bottom are continuously held in a modern form of serfdom is it really a surprise when the ruling elite plunder the services to the serfs to the point where the system is unoperable?
wunhundred 🙂
Hahahaha!No molgrips my life style was made possible by Nicolai Tesla and he was most assuredly not a capitalist.
Capitalists always try and make out that they have driven our society forwards rather than held it back. The current situation is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work.
Tesla could have advanced our race technologically by thousands of years with sufficient support, instead that * up Edison and all the other retarded capitalists of the day simply opposed him, to the extent of burning down one of his labs.
You genius's stay here and argue over the details of why the biggest bunch of * ups the world has ever known have ended up in a **** ed up situation, I have an escape from the DOOMED capitalists plan to work on and intend to help as many decent people as I can along the way, so long suckers!
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Tend to agree on both counts TJ but if you want to spend all day in hospital without food then at 7 pm get one bowl of chips between three of you then it will test your calmness and i failed.*
FWIW I would have paid for some food but you did not have the option
Cheers binners if I wanted the BMI of you then all good suggestions 😉
I can imagine and its not unreasonable at that point. if it was 7 pm the nurses had bolloxed the whole thing and forgotten you I bet - hasty run down to the canteen for something. Ward dinner will have been over hours before
IIRC they were waiting for blood test results ??? that got lost and they decided to keep him in as they did not want to risk it and they decided this about 6 ish.
Yes not the NHS finest hour for sure.
TO be fair one nurse was really helpful and went and made some toast and stuff.
No molgrips my life style was made possible by Nicolai Tesla and he was most assuredly not a capitalist.Capitalists always try and make out that they have driven our society forwards rather than held it back. The current situation is a perfect example of why capitalism doesn't work.
Tesla could have advanced our race technologically by thousands of years with sufficient support, instead that * up Edison and all the other retarded capitalists of the day simply opposed him, to the extent of burning down one of his labs.
You genius's stay here and argue over the details of why the biggest bunch of * ups the world has ever known have ended up in a **** ed up situation, I have an escape from the DOOMED capitalists plan to work on and intend to help as many decent people as I can along the way, so long suckers!
I quite enjoyed the sentiment of this but I'm struggling with the Nikola Tesla thing. I'm genuinely fascinated as to why your particular lifestyle was made possible by him?
No molgrips my life style was made possible by Nicolai Tesla
LOL!
St Nicolai, patron saint of internet conspiracies!
He was a good scientist, had some good ideas, but also some absolutely batty ones that never would have worked. Actually, I can see the appeal now 🙂
Did he invent the computer then, and the internet? Or mechanised farming? Or water treatment, or the car?
Its too simplistic a statement, we all owe our existence to both the state and to capitalism
Well yes, but the state is funded by taxing companies run by capitalists. Of course we have a mixed economy. But my point is that most of the inventions that we depend on indirectly and directly every day were invented as private enterprise; funded, developed and/or produced by capitalist money.
I do not really see why families shuld be fed
It was the food for the two patients in my case - there was no food for the rest of the family (ie me and my wife). We just ate what the girls wouldn't eat.
We were given toast with jame and coffee in the mornings though.
Your lifestyle however has been made possible by capitalists.
Well taking that sort of logic, and taking into account that capitalism has been superseding democracy as a political entity, the fall of communism wouldn't of happened as the Polish, Czechs, Slovakians and all the others wouldn't have "questioned" the system they "owed" themselves to.
Capitalism will be around for a long time to come, you lot are merely arguing over whether it serves you or a wealthy minority and corporations. I still don't think some of you have cottoned on to this.
My view is the current form of capitalism is taking us as a race backwards.
is that why state run economies have such a small state sector and no taxation 😉but the state is funded by taxing companies run by capitalists
now managed by Circle Healthcare, has managed to achieve the highest patient satisfaction ratings
The fact that you hold Circle up as a triumph speaks volumes about your understanding of what is [i]actually[/i] happening to the NHS.
Hinchingbrooke is a stalking horse, with a good deal of funny financial engineering out back. In the real world, the likes of Circle are profiting off the back of NHS acute capacity & workforce training.
Exactly El-bent, capitalism is a system of oppression and exploitation, that is controlled by a small select group of individuals that are more concerned with power, control and dominance, than they are with the development and evolution of our race or even quality of life.
To defend capitalism is to champion tyranny and slavery, there are dark forces at work in the world and I believe molgrips and junkyard are simply pretending to be mentally retarded and are infact agents of [s]useless idiocy[/s] capitalism!
Kaasae the personal insults when you are , by any reasonable standards, a swivel eyed loon with incompressible conspiracist views is frankly silly
You may be alone on STW in thinking i am a fan of capitalism or ever likely to defend it. The fact you own and run your own business whilst saying this shows startling levels of stupidity even for you.
Wow, you are quite unimpressed with whole capitalism thing.... i think you need a glass of warm milk or something... no need for name calling...
Junkyard a fan of capitalism. Erm....
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😀
The fact that you hold Circle up as a triumph speaks volumes about your understanding of what is actually happening to the NHS.Hinchingbrooke is a stalking horse, with a good deal of funny financial engineering out back. In the real world, the likes of Circle are profiting off the back of NHS acute capacity & workforce training.
So, did they achieve the highest patient satisfaction ratings in the survey, or not, then?
Does the answer have any bearing on the point the poster made?
None at all. Junkyard
I do note that no one has actually tried to make a serious defence for the governments policies despite the swivel eyed loons being out in force on this thread.
When even they realize its indefensible then the end must be near. Please
You say that but all you are trying to do is draw people back out into an argument with you. But it is really very boring doing that.
despite the swivel eyed loons being out in force on this thread.
Using this kind of language m_f, I can't see where you got that idea from.
This thread hasn't been so bad though...and I don't think there's been too much swivel-eyed loonery. Mid you I get the feeling that TeeJ and Zooloo are gearing up for an afternoon of discontent. Must be the heat. 🙂
TJ - rubbish food in hospitals is not solely due to lack of money - not least as there's no shortage of that sloshing round most hospitals (required in part to buy in bank staff to cover the 15 days of sick leave that NHS clinicians took on average last year, as reported this week).
A recent programme with James Martin (who knows a thing or two about cooking) featured Scarborough Trust. It was serving rubbish food and claimed it couldn't do any better because of financial constraints. He showed them that they actually didn't need to spend any more to provide fresh food. They had enough staff, the right equipment but were basically providing slop for patients as that was what it was easiest for the staff and managers to do - they basically didn't ask patients and weren't really interested in finding out what patients' needs were - the issue cultural not monetary.
One of the most frustrating things about the culture of the NHS is the constant complaint that everything is to do with the need for more money (it's one of your stock responses to everything).
The only excellence to be found in many NHS Trusts is their rapacious appetite for public money that is then wasted at every opportunity.
There's almost no focus on improvement, quality or excellence, and that's entirely down to the NHS Culture in which staff convince themselves the NHS is perfect and can't be improved.
Anyone who has looked and compared the NHS with other health systems (or better still used other health systems) can see the gap in standards and experience very clearly - despite the loud voices telling us all how wonderful it is, the 25,000 avoidable deaths a year, patients suffering malnutrition, dehydration, loss of dignity etc. on wards that are much better staffed than 15 years ago shows that money is not the only answer.
We need root and branch reform of NHS culture and we need the NHS staff to be the strongest advocates of systematic change that improves the experience for patients at every opportunity and a cessation of the constant attempts to silence patients and maintain the status-quo because that's the easy option for staff.
A good example of the "gap". We are told by NHS staff that focusing specialist procedures (and significant volumes of these) in a small number of hospitals is bad news. So we have endless hospitals providing the same services, with most achieving mediocre standards. Compare this to a poorer nation (India) and we get a sense of how a relentless focus on quality and continuous improvement can benefit patients and provide cost effective healthcare:
http://blog.insead.edu/2012/02/the-henry-ford-of-cardiac-surgery/
Where are the NHS examples of this sort of innovation?
Farmer John - that is just utter bobbins you know.
IE
A good example of the "gap". We are told by NHS staff that focusing specialist procedures (and significant volumes of these) in a small number of hospitals is bad news
Just 100 % wrong - clinicians the country over know that to concentrate specialities in a small number of hospitals is best. Evidence based practice adn this is what the evidence says - its the politicains and the general public who rail against this
There's almost no focus on improvement, quality or excellence, and that's entirely down to the NHS Culture in which staff convince themselves the NHS is perfect and can't be improved.
Wrong - there is a huge focus on this leading to massive change in the way we work to bring best practice to everywhere - this is made much harder by market lead reforms.
Still - what do I know - I have only worked in healthcare both public and private for decades
MF - and it has been explaied to you a part of the reason why it is like this - and also I bet it is a contracted out meal service ( is it?)
I'd be interested in knowing who set the criteria and signed the final contract when contracting out these services.
Wrong - there is a huge focus on this leading to massive change in the way we work to bring best practice to everywhere - this is made much harder by market lead reforms.
How were market led reforms responsible for this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18814487
capitalism is a system of oppression and exploitation
No. You do not understand this at all.
Capitalism is simply a system of managing money and labour.
This can be USED to oppress people, but so can pretty much all other systems.
It is not INTRINSICALLY bad for people.
It does have a big intrinsic flaw though, because it relies on continuous growth of production, and that risks destruction of natural resources and the environment. It may be possible to mananage it carefully to avoid that - I hope so.
It may be possible to mananage it carefully to avoid that - I hope so.
Who manages it now? Who should manage it? Who impartially interprets the results? Who should impartially interpret the results?
If we can answer that this afternoon it will be time well spent...
Isn't STW great? You benefit from the experience of others who have lived in very different environments to yourself. Very interesting to hear that there are pure capitalist economies (I assume that is synonymous with free-market economies) out there and places where one political party uniquely and unequivocally creates and sustains widespread economic prosperity while others do the opposite (albeit excluding the tiny minority of their friends).
All very interesting and in such contrast to the messy world in which I live. One where governments and markets work in conjunction with each other to allocate resources. Sometimes working well together, often not, especially when they step into areas where the other party is better placed to manage!
In my Lewis Carroll-type world, certainties become uncertainties and the world is often turned upside down. So weird things happen such as socialist (sic) governments overseeing the combination of excess and unsustainable growth in a narrow segment of the private sector (finance) and using the proceeds to fund an equally excessive and unsustainable growth in the public sector. At the same time, amazing!
And then, in two of the biggest so-called free market blocks, governments and central bankers conspire to artificially flood markets with liquidity and hold interest rates artificially low in order to compensate for their earlier errors. Then the learned rule-makers create a system that encourages over-concentration of assets, excess leverage and inappropriate pricing of assets by these rapidly growing financial giants. To compound it all governments step in an cajoule economic agents to force feed housing finance on people who cannot afford it - and in foreign lands. What an odd world! Especially when so-called socialist economies do almost exactly the reverse - reduce their role on finance and industry, introduce market reforms and deliver higher levels of economic growth and use all their hard earned savings to bail out their more developed peers. True Alice-in-Wonderland stuff.
The latest installment in this weird parallel world came yesterday when output guestimates came in much worse that people expected. But wait - this data says exactly the opposite to labour markets and tax receipts that tell us that economic activity is recovering. How odd -surely all those new a hard working people are not really that unproductive. There must be something up with this data - so which is Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass" and which is "Wonderland"? If only anyone knew! 😉
So, did they achieve the highest patient satisfaction ratings in the survey, or not, then?
Circle are a boutique healthcare provider - running (very) small hotel-ish hospitals that concentrate on tickbox elective procedures in generally fit n' well patients (albeit usually within blue-light distance of NHS A&E & ITU). That's what so fugging laughable about their PR efforts - e.g. some recent article-puffery in [i]The Times[/i], in which Circle Bath was compared to Bath RUH [B]as if they were providing the same kind of service[/B]. Ali Parsa's oh-so-timely venture isn't having to deal with the complex overheads of acute capacity or workforce training/education. So, the NHS gets slagged off - [i]even[/i] as it increasingly underpins the profits of sundry "partnered" interests (and Circle's financial set-up is far-from-straightforward, as befits its backers). In other words, a customer satisfaction survey doesn't necessarily tell you anything about acuity or casemix - and it's pretty disingenuous to claim that it reflects clinical reality.
This kind of smoke n' mirrors stuff really boils my pish - Circle are simply playing a long game.
Farmer_John: nobody, not least frontline grunts, is pretending that the NHS is perfect. But the ConDem reforms are managing to screw up what it [i]can[/i] do well - nor will they improve matters for hard pressed services like elderly care. As for hospital catering: largely contracted out, IME. And that doesn't mean private sector dynamism - it means Serco.
Presses LIKE button
Just as an asside, is it true that the charts on the ends of hospital beds are not standardized? It was on r4 today and I was somewhat amazed that something so important varied across the NHS.
Just as an asside, is it true that the charts on the ends of hospital beds are not standardized? It was on r4 today and I was somewhat amazed that something so important varied across the NHS.
Why would the BBC lie? Hardly an aside either bearing in mind the OP's position.
something so important
Hmm, I won't fire up the outrage bus just yet - although that won't stop the tabloids. It's true that there is variation in observation monitoring charts (on general wards - & note that there will very different documentation in theatres, ITU etc) & there is a good argument for standardisation - e.g. including urine output as a key component of an EWS (early warning score) system... BUT, tbh, chart parameters are no substitute for clinical acumen & mark 1 eyeballs! You can be sick as a dog, and still score '0'!
Proper levels of staffing on general wards would do far more for patient outcomes.
danny boyles a fan of the NHS, take that right wingers!