[Closed] Double dip recession part 2

Are you trying to start an argument TJ?

So tory apologists. How are you going to explain this away then?

I couldn't give a tit personally. They are all bollocks.

what makes you think it would have been any better under labour?

What defines an apologist?

The British Chambers of Commerce and the Institute of Directors both called on the government to show "leadership", urging Osborne to take advantage of low interest rates to borrow for public investment.

hardly the usual rhetoric from these people is it - slagging off a tory chancellor.

Have you thought of going outside for a bike ride?

jam bo - Member

what makes you think it would have been any better under labour?

the fact that the polices followed by labour brought us out of recession - the tories took us back into recession.

Thats what cutting like they have done does - causes recession- and it doesn't even do what they want it to do - reduce the deficit because of increased benefits bills and decreased tax take

Good

Economic growth requires a constant increase in the amount of the goods and services produced in our economy.

The worlds resources are finite - the fact that we have reigned back in the unsustainable and damaging clamour for 'growth' is a good thing, isn't it?

How can constant growth be a good thing

IanMunro - Member

Have you thought of going outside for a bike ride?

Not long back ta muchly

and it doesn't even do what they want it to do - reduce the deficit because of increased benefits bills and decreased tax take

Hate to admit it but TJ makes an awfully good point.

Are you trying to start an argument TJ?

osbournes slowly strangling the crying baby

mastiles_fanylion - Member
I couldn't give a tit personally. They are all bollocks.

😀

as far as I see it.

we are in the middle of the biggest financial shitstorm in a century, no one has a clue how to fix it and the idea that another political party who's main differential point seem to be they wear different coloured ties could magic it away is frankly laughable.

most of the eurozone continues to grow

[img] ?s=eugnemuq&d1=20100101&d2=20120726[/img]

Regardless of who is in power they will have to face double dip recession that will last for at least 10 years. Fact!

It might even be triple dip recession when Spain and the likes go down ...

There is no climbing out from this shite hole for sometime now put it this way.

Gone were the days of ear to ear grin of the NuLabour years and in with the Tories that become the punching bag.

Yes, the blame game does not work anymore and sooner or later the zombies will roam the street again demanding for more by holding everyone to ransom left right and centre.

Well pointed out Zulu Eleven.

There is a lot wrong with this government but the IMF is still agreeing with Gideon (but saying it may need revising in a few months if no pick up) and IMF is still saying more public sector wage cuts needed that is hardly the Labour view is it?

We need some more spending on infrastructure and houses - crazy not to do it when builders desperate for work and some tax cuts on low paid to stimulate work and give those in work more spending money. Apart from that we are in a debt induced recession (caused unequivocally by New Labour) and with all our trading partners in deep debt what can be done? This will take at least a decade - look at Japan, still recovering from the 1980s debt blow out.

jam bo - Member

as far as I see it.

we are in the middle of the biggest financial shitstorm in a century, no one has a clue how to fix it and the idea that another political party who's main differential point seem to be they wear different coloured ties could magic it away is frankly laughable.

+ 1000

Most politicians when interviewed over this look like rabbits in the headlamps

Sigh

Really TJ you do let your hatred of the Tories cloud your logic if you think things would be different under a Labour government

The last spending plan we had from a Labour Government was from Chancellor Darling for 2010-2015 which differed from Osbourne's spending plan for the same period by 40 billion. That's 8 billion a year. UK government spending for 2013 will be 677 billion. So 8 billion is close to being a rounding error and would make no difference to the speed of any recovery.

But to be fair, any calculations made by Darling are so out of touch with the current situation as to be meaningless.

I honestly do not believe a different Government could have done anything significantly better (or worse possibly) than the current shower. For the most part it is a global problem, not a local one.

I think if we're all honest, we were headed for a recession whether we liked it or not. So, really it's how GB, its crew and passengers are steered through the shitstorm that's up for question.

It's pretty obvious that the scared rabbits currently don't seem to know what they're up to. Our chancellor comes across as better at snorting coke and shagging hookers than running the economy of a G8 country. His boss is too busy making sure that the remnants of the NHS are sold off to mates while behind the scenes, our schools and horrifically, our police stations are being readied as the next fertile orchard ready for the capitalist scrumpers.

Would Milliband (either brother) and Balls do better? My hairy arse they would. They might ease it with some borrowing from Peter to pay Paul for a half decade or so.

So, time for something new. Let's start by protecting what's left of the NHS and keeping our education system and security & protection untainted by the corporations who would wish to exploit it. Then (as I hear Centrica reporting massive profits on the news), lets seize energy, transport (railways especially), water and communications back from those bastards who squeeze us for every penny they can, and repeatedly give us shit service. Over. And over. Again. We can worry about efficiency later but FFS, we need these services back.

We've pissed about with letting corporations run our fantastic country for fifty odd years now while politicians pretend they're running the show. It's time to tell them to **** off. And try something different.

Ah, but Darling wasn't [i]really[/i] a Labour chancellor was he?

TJ lives in an alternate reality where the great socialist revolution has taken place in the Labour party, Ed balls has been strung from a lamppost and Miliband has been appointed [i]Mr Leader[/i], has borrowed fifteen trillion dollars at zero percent interest from the IMF, and used it to build a hospital with full A&E facilities at the end of every street.

uponthedowns -

I think you will find the major philosophical / tactical differences would have made a significant difference.

Cameron and Osbourne - showing their inexperience talked down the UK economy and talked up the cuts which has a huge knock on effect in consumer confidence.

Also that spending plan from Darling was only because the labour party in their cowardice allowed themselves to be pushed into a position of saying they would cut significantly as well under presure from the tory press. Its not what they had been doing and doing successfully in keeping the UK out of recession.

You have to look at the comparison with other European countries to understand the difference the election made. The UK economy was running along under the stimulous okish and well in comparison to the rest of teh EU. The UK is now worse than a year ago other comparable countries are not.

When even the institute of directors are calling for more spending and saying that Osbourne has got it wrong then you know the game is up. History will not treat him kindly.

C'mon TJ - explain yourself - you claimed that the Eurozone was in growth, but according to the BBC:

The eurozone has narrowly avoided another recession with zero growth in the first three months of the year, according to figures from Eurostat.
Another quarter of economic contraction had been predicted after the eurozone shrank by 0.3% in the final quarter of 2011.

And according to the trade sites:

Eurozone Growth Monitor

James Waterson
Last updated: 4 July 2012
Latest official data for the Eurozone shows that no growth occurred in the first quarter of 2012.

The Eurostat Consumer Confidence surveys continue to register a significant lack of optimism regarding the current economic climate. The Eurostat Economic Sentiment Indicator is now in its 11th month of decline. In addition, the Eurostat Consumer Climate survey also remains in very pessimistic territory.

The IPSOS consumer surveys show that over 80% of European consumers lack significant confidence in the future, whereas only 20% believe their respective economies are currently ‘strong’. The exception is the German consumer who remains positive about the present but pessimistic about the future situation. The latest Retail Sales data shows a 1% year on year drop. New car registration also stopped growing year on year in the 3rd quarter of 2011 and continue to fall in 2012. Mortgage lending has also declined in all 4 countries monitored.

The World Economics view is that these data continue to suggest the Eurozone looks likely to experience, at best, no growth in Q2 2012.

our police stations are being readied as the next fertile orchard ready for the capitalist scrumpers.

Excellent. Well done DD, +1 on that.

Zulu

You even quoted me

[b]most of [/b]the eurozone continues to grow

TJ before you argue could ask the Union leaders to cut their wages say to £45K per year? Are they trying to compete with Dear Leaders? 🙄

OK, break it down - your claim is [b]most[/b] of the eurozone

which countries are up, which countries are down?

Germany is up 0.5%

France is flat, Spain, Netherlands & Portugal, Greece and Italy are down

So come on, [b]most[/b] of the Eurozone is growing?

Back your claim up, or withdraw it!

as it does - and even by the numbers you give we are doing much worse than the eu average let alone the eu without greece

Dont feed the troll. This was done sensibly and politely yesterday.

I think Bracissimo pretty much nailed it!

G4S at the Olympics has inadvertently summed up the culture of take-it-as-read privatisation in this country.

As long as you make the right political donations, then you can get away with charging absurd fees for the lowest common denominator of service. Then you trouser the millions in bonuses. Result! It's now Clear that even that piss poor level of 'deliverables' is frankly too much trouble. So why bother? We'll get paid anyway.

I know! Let's hand over the NHS and the education system over to the same people, while dressing it up as 'necessary austerity'.

They're selling us all down the ****ing river, so that when they're voted out, they can pop up on the boards of the companies with these new privatised contracts. A million dabs a year for one day a month as a non exec director? Don't mind if I do!

Is that why Labour have employed G4S for their autumn conference security then?

Zulu

You even quoted me

most of the eurozone continues to grow
as it does - and even by the numbers you give we are doing much worse than the eu average let alone the eu without greece

Is that why Labour have employed G4S for their autumn conference security then?

Oh bore the **** off.

Aha, A raw nerve hit there Darcy 😉

Good shot, Reload! 😈

we are in the middle of the biggest financial shitstorm in a century, no one has a clue how to fix it and the idea that another political party who's main differential point seem to be they wear different coloured ties could magic it away is frankly laughable.

+ 1

This is an interesting viewpoint

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kondratiev_waves ]Kondratiev waves[/url]

Extraordinarily naive/dogmatic for anyone to believe any of our main political parties' respective stances would make anything more than a gnat's chuff difference to our GDP.

Both parties are just off-centre, barely any distance between them in terms of policies
Globalisation
Europe's getting old which will impact on growth (unless we increase immigration - should be interesting trying that!)
Eurozone is in a mess
We borrowed money we couldn't pay back. All of us. Government, companies, banks, consumers

Blaming a specific political party in the UK for a problem of global proportions is just silly. Like voting Labour in would make a blind bit of difference!

No Zulu, as ever, you miss completely. It's ok though, you and TeeJ masturbate yourselves into the usual froth of detail, graphs and bullshit point-scoring. It's what makes most of the rest of STW switch off these threads. You ought to be proud of yourselves. No. Really. You should.

Ah, sorry - we should accept the word of the Tandem as it is spake, for he is of the left, and therefore the word is good 🙄

DD - have you not noticed I usually do not reply to Zulu?

Blaming a specific political party in the UK for a problem of global proportions is just silly. Like voting Labour in would make a blind bit of difference!

Indeed - however specific policies can ameliorate or worsen problems with global origins.

have you not noticed I usually do not reply to Zulu?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

So, I managed to draw you out of cover to the point whereby you just [b]couldn't[/b] resist it, by pointing out that you were talking bollocks...

Win!

Same goes to TeeJ of course. The both of you (with the help of others) wreck these threads with your bickering. And most of it is of the nature of a university debating chamber (and not in a good way). Any kind of philosophical questions are lost in the fog of the two of you.

There's little difference between the two parties. The only one is that 'labour' are at least still slightly embarrassed by the fact they're purely serving the interests of their multinational donors, so hedge it with some token social gestures.

The tory's? Same old, same old. They truly don't give a ****! You can all starve in the gutter as long as they're ok

its true I doubt that labour would be any better at fixing the economy in the short term

and even tho nulab were pretty damn right wing in many ways the torys really are damaging the countrys long term prospects. the coaltions continual attacks on NHS, universities, science funding,forensics, even the police will **** the country good and proper - g4s were a shoe in for taking over the police b4 their Olympic glory- probably still are
goves based his education plan around the private sector, yet forced to admit that competition between exam boards has led to decreasing standards, corruption etc yet its still a good thing for schools ?

the costs of these policies won't be fully realised till the current cabinet are retired to the HOL counting their (tax evaded) $s from their non exec directorships with various private healthcare, police,education corporatipns they sold their asses to way back when at 250k a head dinners above number 10

G4S at the Olympics has inadvertently summed up the culture of take-it-as-read privatisation in this country.

As long as you make the right political donations, then you can get away with charging absurd fees for the lowest common denominator of service. Then you trouser the millions in bonuses. Result! It's now Clear that even that piss poor level of 'deliverables' is frankly too much trouble. So why bother? We'll get paid anyway.

I know! Let's hand over the NHS and the education system over to the same people, while dressing it up as 'necessary austerity'.

They're selling us all down the ****ing river, so that when they're voted out, they can pop up on the boards of the companies with these new privatised contracts. A million dabs a year for one day a month as a non exec director? Don't mind if I do!

Couldn't have put it better myself +1