And you know for a fact that Thomas Crooks was on a mission to assassinate fascists?
The whole God stopped the bullet angle is the most frightening thing I’ve taken from this. So, theoretically, a divine being with ultimate power is fine with school shootings but will directly intervene when a deranged grandad gets shot at. **** off Donald.
Could be because Trump is not enough of a fascist, remarkably. Normally these loons leave a 'manifesto' behind, but nothing apparently found, so it may stay a mystery.
the local officer in question had probably been told “there’s someone on that roof” and went over to have a look
.....and gave the shooter some tips and hints "keep an eye on wind direction mate, got your illegal bump stop fitted? nice one, good luck"
Only 27% of officers ever fire their weapons (outside of a range) at any point in their career.
27% is a very large proportion- I wouldn’t put ‘only’ in front of if.
what percentage of uk police even carry a fire arm at any point in their career?
What percentage of uk firearms officers have had to fire their gun outside of a training scenario?
nickc
Full MemberSo the shooter was a white Republican registered American with a legally held firearm. Looking at the responses from the MAGA crowd on SM the answer to this appears to be tighter border controls, more guns and a blame the Dems.
If I, a leftist, was going to shoot at Trump I'd like to think I'd plan ahead, join the republicans, plant some other seeds, maybe leave a note that says "I am killing Trump because he is insufficiently MAGAish and god told me he must be struck down being a paedophile, ps, I am not a leftist"
I mean, we just don't really know anything, and it's possible we never will, but it doesn't make any sense to take that one thing as being solid.
The whole God stopped the bullet angle is the most frightening thing I’ve taken from this. So, theoretically, a divine being with ultimate power is fine with school shootings but will directly intervene when a deranged grandad gets shot at. **** off Donald.
Didn't even stop the bullet -- just made sure that, instead of killing Trump, it killed a voluntary fire fighter as he dived in front of his family
Which is about as far from divine intervention as I can imagine
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce586kxjvnyo
I’m just interested in the psychology of thought processes under duress.
"What's that geezer up to over th - ****, he's got a shooter, better duck back down!"
27% is a very large proportion- I wouldn’t put ‘only’ in front of if.
what percentage of uk police even carry a fire arm at any point in their career?
What percentage of uk firearms officers have had to fire their gun outside of a training scenario?
The UK isn’t a fair comparison though is it. We have a very different approach to policing than the US. The US gun fetish runs deep and includes the police force. They seem like a quasi military institution in some regards. People whinge about the UK but I’d rather be here than there.
Had the misfortune of catching a few minutes of the Jeremy Vine show today, and he was struggling to contain his incredulity as "Brian from Surrey" went on a rant about how Trump had been persecuted by the Dems and media for years and it was obvious a Democrat nutter would try and follow Bidens recent instruction to kill Trump.
MrsMC changed the station as I was driving and she wasn't sure I was safe to carry on doing so
What percentage of uk firearms officers have had to fire their gun outside of a training scenario?
the stats are public so its pretty easy to find out. There are ~6000 armed police officers in the UK and there were 4 incidents last year where shots were fired on purpose - that figures a little below the average of 6, and only includes shooting at people, not car tyres/animals, but I've no idea on the stats of those. Lets assume for each of them there's an average of 2 police officers shooting - that makes 0.2% chance of an officer shooting. Assumning the shootings are evenly spread amongst officers and you have a 25 year career, that's a 5% chance of shooting at someone.
its also an unfair comparison as the vast majority of people they interact with are not armed. Imagine how often police would have to pull/fire their guns if every drunk/high criminal had guns on them (which thankfully isn't the case here) - I don't think the figures being 5x higher in the US is necessarily an reflection on their performance as police officers - its just the culture in general.
Scary times, it's hard to know how it will end. Mr TW and I just rewatched Tikka to Ride.
Makes you think.
I do wonder if this may actually work out against him in the end. We know he loves and gets energy from speaking to crowds and that gets him column inches. We also know he is a coward. Will he be too scared to do as many big rallies?
I also think that while it may galvanise his base it will not help him amongst the swing voters
I seee that with his trademark modesty the orange shigibbon has described the photo of him, bloodied and holding his fist aloft beside the Stars and Stripes, as the most iconic image ever taken.
As his campaign now pump out banners and t-shirts with it on, I suspect that bubba and Mary-Beth from Shitsville Idaho may well agree with him.
Unfortunately it is indeed a really powerful image. If you staged it, you couldn’t have set it up better. It ticks pretty much all the boxes for a certain type of persons image of American ideals. The composition is perfect. It’s an absolute gift to his campaign team.
The contrast with the other guy, who now looks most of the time like he’s waiting for his cater to come and take him back to Autumn Meadows retirement home for the terminally bewildered, couldn’t be more stark
The would be assassin (I refuse to use the word ‘shooter’) just won Trump the election
A former colleague of mine has gone firmly down the "it was all staged, the deaths were just collateral damage" route on FB, which is slightly worrying.
Though it doesn't seem to have harmed his poll ratings.
The only chance the democrats now have is to change candidates. It was realistically the only way since Biden's total **** up of the debate. But now they also need to regain media attention from the "heroic Trump" narrative, and unless they actually plan to assassinate the sitting president, then the only other way is just to replace him quickly.
The ‘Mericans will put a tinfoil-helmeted conspiracy theory together about pretty much anything though, bless their gun-toting cotton socks
In other news, as well as the man-frog tiring of Clacton after only a week and rushing over to ‘help’, it looks like more of the intellectual big guns have also headed out there. I presume she’s talking to a fringe meeting of heavily armed horticulturists called ‘guns for salad’ or something?
https://Twitter.com/trussliz/status/1812940886793433304?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
unless they actually plan to assassinate the sitting president, then the only other way is just to replace him quickly.
By what mechanism, the 25th? That's not going to fly. Biden may be frail-looking, and stumbles over words occasionally, but he's in a lot better shape mentally than Trump was when that course of action was being mooted a few years back.
That photo! Truss stood there like a Tommy tourist wanting a "I was there photo". The very essence of ex prime minister.
Security for her doesn't look too spiffing - what were they thinking - big important ex head of state and all.
as well as the man-frog tiring of Clacton after only a week and rushing over to ‘help’,
Notably it's Farage making sure to tell everyone how terribly beloved and important he is in the US. (He is not).
I wouldn’t think that Trump or anyone around him have the remotest idea who Farage and Truss are.
Them rushing over there is just so tragically pathetic and needy, but at least Truss has the excuse that she’s nothing better to be doing.
I can’t imagine the voters of Clacton are too enamoured about their elected representative brown-nosing and desperately hoping for a photo op in Milwaukee
Mind you… what exactly did they expect?
Jebezus, that link up there,it's the 'Handmaid's Tale' brought to life.
Not sure Trump can cope with his VP pick. He's going to be constantly reminded that the bloke hates his guts and compared him to Hitler. I can't believe he'd go for anyone other that a complete fangirl, he can't stand the thought of not being revered.
Which makes me wonder if he has much involvement in his campaign decisions at all.
Side note: As predicted, Biden tried to call the family of the Trump supporter killed at the rally yesterday. Trump played some golf.
I can’t imagine the voters of Clacton are too enamoured about their elected representative brown-nosing and desperately hoping for a photo op in Milwaukee
Sadly I think the Reform voting voters of Clacton will approve - their man rubbing shoulders with Trump is as close as them being a MAGA enclave as they are likely to get. They will have a little semi on thinking about it - what am I saying, they are all over 65 - they'll be reaching for a bottle of blue tablets whilst practicing regular breathing to keep the blood pressure under control.
I doubt that Farage being matey with Trump is a vote winner for Reform UK. I haven't seen any evidence that Trump is popular with any section of society in the UK. And I'm not aware of any UK newspaper which sings the praises of Trump, on the contrary, they seem to be quite negative towards him.
I can't see how Trump's choice of running mate increases his voter base. It'll cement what he already has, but it needs to expand....and that guy will put off some "don't knows".
Also, Vance is going to spend the next 4 months explainig that he didn't mean it when he called Trump "America's Hitler".
OTOH the VP candidate probably doesn't make any difference to the average voter.
Also, Vance is going to spend the next 4 months explainig that he didn’t mean it when he called Trump “America’s Hitler”.
I don't think the average Trump voter cares too much about the odd spot of hypocrisy. And a few of them probably think there's one or two things the US could learn from that historical figure.
I don’t think the average Trump voter cares too much about the odd spot of hypocrisy. And a few of them probably think there’s one or two things the US could learn from that historical figure.
Indeed. Nothing a good wedge of the US likes more than a born again christian. It was mentioned a couple of times last night by UK reporters, Trump was given a receptional unlike anything normal in politics the world over. He's their messiah. Vance the repentant coming in and washing his feet is just the look they were after.
That Truss tweet is an epic pile on. Thick skinned or just thick?
I don’t think the average Trump voter cares too much about the odd spot of hypocrisy.
But the point is, it's not the vote of the average Trump voter he needs to attract....they're a done deal
This analysis of the possibility of PTSD developing in Donald Trump and its effects make interesting reading (5 min read) https://theconversation.com/how-being-shot-might-affect-donald-trumps-mental-health-and-that-of-millions-of-others-234709
It's clear that nobody knows how the shooting will effect him and his campaign
I don’t think the average Trump voter cares too much about the odd spot of hypocrisy.
The average voter only cares about whether they are better or worse off than in the past. For better or worse Trump and his MAGA acolytes have correctly identified that people are pissed off with establishment politics and economics and they have successfully harnessed that anger to take over the Republican party. They don't offer any solutions of course but it's quite astonishing that the traditional party of big business is now seen as being on the side of working people while the democrats are now seen as the party of the establishment elite.
it’s quite astonishing that the traditional party of big business is now seen as being on the side of working people while the democrats are now seen as the party of the establishment elite.
Especially astonishing as it's been led that way by a man, born to wealth, who has spent his entire working life bigly promoting (with some fake news along the way) how big business he is. The biggest.
The average voter only cares about whether they are better or worse off than in the past.
That's not true - if it were, there would be much more support for the candidate that has delivered 13 million new jobs, reduced black unemployment to a record low, lower inflation, higher growth. But Biden is struggling over a 1% lead on a good day.
f it were, there would be much more support for the candidate that has delivered 13 million new jobs, reduced black unemployment to a record low, lower inflation, higher growth
You might want to ask then why the working class of the US don't think they're any better off as a result of all that? Probably because prices are still high and wages haven't caught up, because the long term erosion of real wages hasn't been reversed by a short term boost in growth and reduction in inflation, and becase higher growth clearly hasn't 'trickled down'. This is why the democrats are failing, they tell a moderately good story but on the ground people don't feel like anything is getting better. Working Americans have figured out that neoliberalist globalism doesn't work for them, so little wonder they're turning to the party which is pushing that message.
It’s clear that nobody knows how the shooting will effect him
It won't effect him. That was done around 79 years ago by his parents.
The average voter only cares about whether they are better or worse off than in the past.
69% of US voters don't even rate jobs/economy/prices as the subject they care about most, let alone the only one they care about.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1362236/most-important-voter-issues-us/
Working Americans have figured out that neoliberalist globalism doesn’t work for them, so little wonder they’re turning to the party which is pushing that message.
And yet no sooner than the shots rang out, the T-shirt printing businesses in China have cranked straight into action to sell them loads more Trump merch with the raised fist image on.
By Sunday afternoon, Chinese entrepreneurs had already started selling souvenir T-shirts emblazoned with the photograph
“We put the T-shirts on Taobao as soon as we saw the news about the shooting, though we hadn’t even printed them, and within three hours we saw more than 2,000 orders from both China and the US,” Li Jinwei, one of the online sellers to start selling such T-shirts on the Taobao e-commerce platform, told the South China Morning Post.
Not exactly a bright bunch, are they? Mind you : as turkeys voting for Christmas goes, Brexit, then giving Boris Johnson a whacking great majority can't really be bettered, so who are we to talk
Working Americans have figured out that neoliberalist globalism doesn’t work for them, so little wonder they’re turning to the party which is pushing that message.
But the party that's pushing that message doesn't give a shit either, and is even more invested in neoliberalist globalism and the message they're pushing is that its either commies or foreigner's fault. When it turns out not to be either of those things, what then?
I haven’t seen any evidence that Trump is popular with any section of society in the UK.
I'm sad to report that is not my experience. In my wider circle of friends and acquaintances especially on social media there is a small but not insignificant minority who do. I hear sentiments like "he's not perfect but he stands up to the elites", the "mainstream media" or "he speaks a lot of common sense".
All bollox of course and I've had some ding dong exchanges with some of them, but trust me - there is a lot of support for that style of leader out there in UK.
Invariably they are also Brexit supporting, Reform voters who swallow popularist messaging and maybe the odd wacky conspiracy theory. They get their "news" from Facebook and nutty YouTube channels. These people aren't a tiny minority anymore. I would take a sizeable bet that a majority of the 14% who voted Reform, would express positive views of Trump if pressed. A few more wouldn't say so out loud but would do in private when amongst others of that mindset.
I'm really sad to say that amongst many (not all) veteran contacts of mine, there is almost an assumption that you will think that way and I've shocked a few with my "wokeness" at reunions and such.
I'm sure some will say you need better friends but in most cases, these are otherwise good people who I've known for decades who just have a very unsophisticated view of politics and are suckers for the easy solutions pushed by the likes of Trump.
I wish we didn't, but we live in "interesting times"!
When it turns out not to be either of those things, what then?
Well I guess it'll either be more division and a slide towards greater violence and perhaps civil war in some form (not a full-blown one but we could see localised skirmishes between militias and the national guard/police), or maybe a renaissance of the Democrats under a leader who finally figures out how to speak to working people without coming across as a liberal elitist. What the US needs is a younger, more dynamic Bernie Sanders. Until the democrats continue to choose leaders like Clinton and Biden nothing will ever change.
According to Trumps new running mate the UK is likely to be the first truly islamist state to have nuclear weapons
Oh....
I hear sentiments like “he’s not perfect but he stands up to the elites”, the “mainstream media” or “he speaks a lot of common sense”.
That's because he speaks in the language of many normal people without any of the middle class professional niceties, 'woke' language around race, gender and sex and other stuff that working class people with minimal education find alienating or patronising. They're not really interested in what he's saying, more the way he says it. I always find it ironic that highly intelligent and educated people like politicians and others find it impossible to communicate with people of lesser education and upbringing at a level they can understand. It's no wonder working class/normal people think they're elitist.
That’s because he speaks in the language of many normal people
He doesn't actually speak in coherent sentences, and hasn't for a while now. Experts suspect early on set dementia. It's hard to know what the shooting will have done to his mental state, but probably nothing good.
It’s no wonder working class/normal people think they’re elitist.
And yet Trump is one of the Elite, and they venerate him for it.
