Interesting discussion re the protocols of armed protection
It was quite interesting but jeez, are they paid by the minute to get an hour's video out of 10 mins of content.
Summary.
Can't shoot until clear threat to life or serious bodily injury
Appeared to have the info about the shooter's location as both snipers had committed to firing positions in that direction
Possibly confusion - although reports of shooter may have been uncertain if it was another law enforcement officer (highly likely there should have been one on that roof)
May have been delay because targeting through telescopic sights at that range is difficult - tiny movement and you are sweeping past the target (likely the full scope picture at that range would be half a face which makes it hard to contextualise against landmarks). Possible open sight would have been a better option.
Must be an absolute ****ing nightmare working in security over there. Not just guns, but assault rifles everywhere! WTF do they do when visiting Texas where open carry is a thing?
WTF do they do when visiting Texas where open carry is a thing?
It's not just Texas.
Open carry is legal in more states than it's not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States
Madness.
and possibility that Gravy Seals will be going to future events armed to deal with their own security too. As is 'their right'
There was a YouTube video about 10 years back of a black guy who went to different towns and walked around with an assault rifle (which was legal). He was lucky he wasn't shot, American cops respond really fast when there's a black guy with a gun.
and possibility that Gravy Seals will be going to future events armed to deal with their own security too. As is ‘their right’
So set off a firecracker and all hell brakes lose with bullets flying in all directions as hyped up cosplayers with guns panic and shoot everything they can. I think I might have a better plan to assassinate Trump using the gravy seals as my method.
Good to see our Nigel, the hero of Clacton has headed straight off to offer Donny support. I presume in a fluffer capacity.
May have been delay because targeting through telescopic sights at that range is difficult – tiny movement and you are sweeping past the target (likely the full scope picture at that range would be half a face which makes it hard to contextualise against landmarks). Possible open sight would have been a better option.
[Geek mode // Secret service snipers will most likely use something like a .308 or possibly .338 Lapua rifle equipped with a variable 5-25x 56mm scope. The field of view on one of those is pretty impressive, and the variable magnification will mean target acquisition is nowhere near as difficult as you are suggesting.//Geek mode]
and possibility that Gravy Seals will be going to future events armed to deal with their own security too. As is ‘their right’
I'm expecting the sycophants crowded behind him during rallies to be composed of 3%ers and oath keepers from now on.
I'm just summarising what was in the linked video, I have no specialist or geeky knowledge.
Trump's security detail messed up to such a collosal degree I can't blame people for suspecting something strange was going on. The shooter themselves had a crowd for God's sake, for minutes before shots were fired.
The shooter themselves had a crowd for God’s sake, for minutes before shots were fired.
You can't just shoot someone for being on a roof.
Classified documents case dropped.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz5rpdrxevro
The Orange Shit Gibbon if having his best time ever.
You can’t just shoot someone for being on a roof.
You can if the person is clearly armed.
Dropped by a judge he appointed who does not have the experience to be a judge. Nothing to see here - move along
You can’t just shoot someone for being on a roof.
Sure, but, when it also seems that they have a gun, you can at least get the presidential candidate off the godamn stage (immediately)
You can if the person is clearly armed.
That video above doesn't show a weapon that I can see. Just being on a roof isn't cause to shoot someone. It would be cause for the SS to keep Trump off the stage though.
Just being on a roof isn’t cause to shoot someone.
I'm sure if the Security had shot him and he wasn't armed, then nothing would of happened.
US Police shoot a lot of people on a daily basis.
It'll be interesting to know what environment Trump generates amongst his staff....."if I'm disturbed while on stage by some half baked fake security issue you're fired" would be very much his style. And assuming the campaign funds must contribute to the financing of the security (like football clubs pay for the financing of policing for matches) it will be interesting to know how generous the notoriously mean Trump would be to that element of the road show expenditure.
gobuchulFree Member
Classified documents case dropped.
At this point, one has to question just how many souls he must've promised the dark lord to get this lucky!
I’m sure if the Security had shot him and he wasn’t armed, then nothing would of happened.
Seriously? If the SS shot an unarmed person at a political rally, it would be a massive scandal. FFS, with hindsight everything seems obvious and simple. In the moment, it's not. Just shooting anyone who looks suspicious is, I assume, not SS policy.
It’ll be interesting to know what environment Trump generates amongst his staff
It's a very good point this. The fact he was allowed to stand and do his "fight, fight, fight" thing suggests the security team are not in charge of security... he is. No close protection team would have allowed him to expose himself so quickly if they had full control.
assuming the campaign funds must contribute to the financing of the security
The USA have a weird system of treating former Presidents as Presidents, and funding their security (amounts undisclosed).
It's often been observed that STW members comprise a huge range of experience and specialisms but I didn't know that extended to professional marksmen and close/personal security experts.
Impressed...
It’ll be interesting to know what environment Trump generates amongst his staff
Well you only need to look at his behaviour on Jan 6 - demanding the security scanners be switched off because people coming to the rally with guns weren'tt going to be shooting at him. Or been restrained by the SS from trying to grab the steering wheel of a car whilst demanding to be taken to the Capitol whilst shouting 'I'm the ****ing president'
If the copper had done his job should he have got on the roof and if necessary get shot anyway; that would have alerted the security services and maybe cost his life and saved the (ex) President’s and potentially various others.
From a prevention of crime perspective, better to stay alive and still be in a position to do something about the probem than get shot and hope that someone follows up in some point in the future. Also, from a personal perspective, most people prefer not to be shot.
Impressed…
I'm not a marksman or a personal security expert, but common sense would suggest if one guy managed to get onto a nearby roof with an AR-15, there might well be accomplices who were better hidden, at different vantage points.
It's not like these kinds of guns are hard to buy in the US: https://www.guns.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto
It’s often been observed that STW members comprise a huge range of experience and specialisms but I didn’t know that extended to professional marksmen and close/personal security experts.
Impressed…
I was going to chip in with my extensive expertise as a kid shooting cans my Diana .177 and Wembley Tempest .22 pistols but thought I’d let others contribute
I was going to chip in with my extensive expertise as a kid shooting cans my Diana .177 and Wembley Tempest .22 pistols but thought I’d let others contribute
I have a .22 air rifle, it even has a telescopic sight. Can I join in?
...This thread is an amazing mix of interesting/informed opinion and utter codswallop. I'm not joining in, only have codswallop to offer 😉
Oh FFS, the documents case was a slam dunk and they knew it, Judge Cannon is a disgrace to her profession.
If the copper had done his job should he have got on the roof and if necessary get shot anyway; that would have alerted the security services and maybe cost his life and saved the (ex) President’s and potentially various others.
probably within the remit of the Secret Service, but not the action I'd expect from a small town cop.
You can if the person is clearly armed.
As per the linked / summarised video (and it's their speculation, not mine) - man with rifle on roof, are you SURE that's not another local branch law enforcement. After all, you'd expect those roofs to be secured, and as it was second circle the SS snipers may not have known for sure and been checking facts.
Secret service snipers will most likely use something like a .308 or possibly .338 Lapua rifle
I have to admit I was curious, because the SS sniper rifles didn't look anything I'd ever seen before, from what I read they are .300 Win Mag apparently.
I've has some experience with the SA80A2 with the Susat sights and would say that in single fire it's got an effective range out to beyond 400m in single fire mode in good conditions. I'd imagine the AR15 is quite similar, but haven't tried it. The L129 was a lot of fun. With good instructors eve I could hit things out beyond 800m.
Donald Trump’s criminal case on charges that he illegally retained classified documents at his Mar-a-Lago club was dismissed on Monday after the presiding judge sided with the former president and ruled that the special counsel who brought the prosecution had been improperly appointed.
The stunning decision by Aileen Cannon, the US district judge who was a Trump appointee, found that the appointment of Jack Smith as special counsel violated the US constitution as he had not been named to his post by the president or confirmed by the Senate.
So a Trump appointed judge has ruled against the case as Trump had not appointed the special counsel who brought the prosecution??!!
Just shooting anyone who looks suspicious is, I assume, not SS policy.
If it was every Trump Rally would be a Massacre...
So a Trump appointed judge has ruled against the case as Trump had not appointed the special counsel who brought the prosecution??!!
I think even his pet judge accepts Biden is currently the president.
It is them throwing away years of precedence after sitting on the case for ages. Handy timing as well to try and hide it.
On the sending a copper onto the roof - don't mean to say they did / didn't do their job, I'm just interested in the psychology of thought processes under duress. Same in sport, why do people make the decisions they do, had they already planned what they'd do if x, y, z occurs, or just act on instinct in the occasion. What made the firefighter that lost his life protecting his family do what he did? Would he have planned it - 'if this ever happens this is what I'd do....' ? My wife I asked me last night if I'd do the same for her and I truthfully answered that I'd never really thought about it (but of course dear, without a moments hesitation)
I hope I'm never in that position. I can say now that of course I would....but in the moment would I really? Or would I shit myself and hide?
"It is them throwing away years of precedence"
or, alternatively, it is them finally sticking to the constitution....
Judge Cannon is a disgrace to her profession.
And therefore the perfect appointees. One the 20 Jam expect Clarence Thomas to resign and Cannon to take his place. An stay put there for the next 50 years or so.
I think even his pet judge accepts Biden is currently the president.
Fair enough (I'd managed to convince myself Trump is still the president!).
Cannon has finally made a decision that can be appealed to the 11th circuit by Jack Smith. It’s a ridiculous decision that will almost certainly be overturned, and hopefully the judge removed from the case.
I think Judge Cannon has used up all her lives with this ruling. Not even trying to disguise the corruption now. Mission accomplished in terms of delaying it beyond the election though.
I suppose her ultimate aim is to secure a SC slot because of her loyalty at some point in the next decade, even if Trump is not elected in November.
I think a lot of you are overestimating how exciting the life of a typical american police officer is. a few stats..
There are over 18,000 police forces, each with their own rules, training programs and procedures in the USA
Only 27% of officers ever fire their weapons (outside of a range) at any point in their career.
A significant proportion of officers don't ever even draw their weapons.
qualifications are being 18, having a driving licence and a GED (which I think is a bit like a couple of 'C's at GCSE)
you don't even need to have a clean criminal record - you can't have a felony but most misdemeanours are fine.
the local officer in question had probably been told "there's someone on that roof" and went over to have a look. He would not have gone expecting to find someone aiming a gun at him (or he's unlikely to have gone solo), and he would not have thought to quickly jump down, draw, de-safety and fire his weapon several times (which would have likely taken longer than the assassin anyway) in order to alert the secret service.
Just read over on the BBC that they are trying to work out a motive for the assassination attempt. I think I can take a wild stab at that.....because Trump is a fascist?
