The more we find out about this the worse it looks for Trump. Its hard to see what his defense can be given the depth of the evidence. Also hard to see why Nauta has not flipped given his well documented role in it. Is he banking on Trump becoming president again and pardoning him? A high stakes gamble given the potential for long jail terms
The espionage charge doesn’t rely on the documents being classified anyway, just that they are national defence related, and that they have been mishandled, removed etc. The fly in the ointment is the judge, who is Trump appointed and has already tried to interfere on behalf of Trump.
Federal judge is allowing E Jean Carroll to amend her defamation suit against trump to reflect hus comments about her at recent CNN town hall.
Source - CNN.
Increased damages a real possibility.
Looks like some republicans are beginning to pull back from trump - including Pence and Barr
I'm no legal eagle but Mr Jonathan Goodman, United States Magistrate Judge, has incorrectly dated the court papers (signed July 13, 2023, bottom of 2nd page). Will they try to use this to throw the case out on a technicality.
Edit - it's the bond papers. Will they use it to pester the "fact witnesses" and claim the bail condition only applies from July 13th?
That "no communication about the facts of the case except through council" is surely just an obvious trap that he will blunder into regardless. It is a set-up even more obvious than the one that Alex Jones fell into, and he still won't be able to resist.
Ox - the document covers bond conditions so, I think, any challenge would be limited to them and would have no impact on the case.
Mr Jonathan Goodman, United States Magistrate Judge, has incorrectly dated the court papers (signed July 13, 2023, bottom of 2nd page). Will they try to use this to throw the case out on a technicality.
I'm not a lawyer either, but the idea that an entire case can be thrown out because of a minor clerical error is just lazy TV scriptwriting stuff.
But it’s a trumpist, Trump appointed judge……
But it’s a trumpist, Trump appointed judge……
Who got schooled by an appeals court populated by conservative judges about her previous ruling regarding Trump. Yes, she can try to tilt things in Trump's favour, but she will need to be much smarter about it than she was last time or it will be rejected on appeal and she'll be booted off the case. On top of that...
https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1669033492947116043
So, with no appeal to higher court available
A) the judge can decide a not guilty verdict on her own
B) there is bizarrely not a minimum sentence time for these Florida crimes so she could give Trump zero years in jail if he is found guilty.
And she's had something like 14 days court time experience!
And she’s had something like 14 days court time experience!
What could possibly go wrong?
If Jack Smith thinks the judge is acting unfairly/unreasonably or is showing signs of bias I would anticipate he - or DoJ - will escalate through the court hierarchy.
This is not good. It will give ammo to those courting the knuckle-dragging cretin vote in the US. 🤦
I thought the same - if the enquiry into Biden holding documents at home goes a similar wzmay to Trump, the knuckle draggers will be all fired up
if the enquiry into Biden holding documents at home goes a similar wzmay to Trump,
It won't for the simple reason Biden co operated and gave any back.
It won’t for the simple reason Biden co operated and gave any back.
You know that and I know that, but i think part of it related to him having unsecured documents in places they just shouldn't have been - anything like that will have Trump & Co crowing
It won’t for the simple reason Biden co operated and gave any back.
If the last seven years has taught anyone anything, it is that this is a level of nuance that a depressingly huge number of people either can't understand or won't acknowledge.
There are still morons bleating about Starmer being photographed drinking a beer.
Modern politics is not about intellect or analysis.
I thought the same – if the enquiry into Biden holding documents at home goes a similar wzmay to Trump, the knuckle draggers will be all fired up
The Hunter Biden thing has nothing to do with retention of documents, he didn't pay his taxes and lied on a application for a gun licence. He's pleaded guilty. Republicans will keep trying to make it into more than it is but only MAGA heads will care.
The documents retention thing is also a dead issue. Mike Pence made the same mistake, I suspect it's an easy mistake for cabinet level officials to make. They take mountains of stuff home with them to read, but even very trivial stuff can be classified so they inadvertently end up retaining documents that they should have returned. In both those cases, they fessed up, invited authorities in to search the place, and returned everything. If Trump had done that, he would not have been prosecuted. Again, the MAGA heads won't care, but it's not an issue that will bleed any votes away from Biden.
😬🙄😬 if the many clips I've seen of the fox interview, this has to be one of the dumbest....
MSNBC largely summed up the interview proving Smith's case that he knowingly held on to documents. At least we know Donny's more concerned about his golf shirts than national security.
😁
More bad news for Trump in todays Guardian . A tape of him acknowledging he was waving round a classified document and discussing it with someone without clearance.
“These are the papers,” Trump says in the audio recording, while he’s discussing the Pentagon attack plans, a quote that was not included in the indictment.
“This was done by the military and given to me,” Trump continues, before noting that the document remained classified. “See as president I could have declassified it,” he says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”
The fact that it needs to be a unanimous verdict is going to make it extremely tough 🙁
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65966074
Not sure the world is ready for another trump presidency
These are the papers,” Trump says in the audio recording, while he’s discussing the Pentagon attack plans, a quote that was not included in the indictment.
“This was done by the military and given to me,” Trump continues, before noting that the document remained classified. “See as president I could have declassified it,” he says. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”
for anyone else that’s would be quite damning. For trump who lies and bullshits with every breath and does so seemingly without being conscious of that, it’s hard to pin ‘something he said’ on him as evidence.
To trump everything is true at the moment he says it. Nothing he said or did ever happened if he’s asked to recollect it.
He could have been waving his gas bill around and saying it’s the nuclear codes. That’s entirely probably. There’d need to be one further step which would be the person he’s bragging to actually reading the documents and being sure they actually were what Trump said they were.
How can you prove he was being sincere just for that one moment against the evidence of everything else he’s ever said or done?
There’s just as much evidence of him saying there aren’t any documents, that he doesn’t know of any documents, that the documents aren’t classified, that the documents were planted by the FBI.
as prosecutors have to ask jurors to do what his supporters have to do- choose what you want to believe and keep anything he said that contradicts that, before or since, out of your thoughts.
He could have been waving his gas bill around and saying it’s the nuclear codes. That’s entirely probably. There’d need to be one further step which would be the person he’s bragging to actually reading the documents and being sure they actually were what Trump said they were.
The point is that he acknowledged that he hadn't declassified the documents when he was President and knew that an ex-President cannot declassify them. That destroys one of his major defense strategies.
With all those lawyers he must be hemorrhaging money.
How long can he sustain it?
With all those lawyers he must be hemorrhaging money.
How long can he sustain it?
A long time, if you don’t pay them....
Quite a while.
He charges $100,000 a ticket to have dinner at his golf club, when he makes his little orange shit gibbon speaches.
I don't think he is paying for them. It's either going to be from donations from the headbangers that think he is the messiah, or they are working on the promise of money in the future.
The point is that he acknowledged that he hadn’t declassified the documents when he was President and knew that an ex-President cannot declassify them. That destroys one of his major defense strategies.
in every sense except that HE said it - and he says any old shit and then says the opposite 10 minutes later. Him saying something has no bearing on what he knows or believes.
Him saying something has no bearing on what he knows or believes.
No, but it will demonstrate to a jury that he knew what he was doing. One important thing about Trump is that, despite lying shamelessly at nearly every opportunity, he knows to shut up in court and not get caught lying there.
No, but it will demonstrate to a jury that he knew what he was doing.
Wxactly, ist just removing an argument, not thhat its really a legal argument... try challenging a speeding ticket on the basis that you didn't know what the speed limit was, you won't get very far!
Jury selection is a strange and pretty horrendous process tbh, especially in a case where it's really truth and untruth, or just and unjust. The side of justice are desperately trying to exclude completely partisan or unfit jurors while the other side is just trying to sneak them in, there's no equality of position or stake when one side has "our guys" and the other side doesn't really. And in this case, when the case is about proving that a known liar is lying again, having jurors go in with an open mind is basically playing to the defence- the default position isn't an open mind, it's that trump is a liar and a fraud. So it's inherently biased. Being a normal, middle of the road fair minded person is going to look like bias to Trumpeteers.
(I used to think it seemed like a good idea, til I realised how it works with racial differences- for a black defendent there's a whole extra tier of problem jurors that they have to try and exclude, that white folks barely need to worry about. So the prosecution is basically picking and choosing who they want, while you're just desperately trying to exclude the ones you absolutely can't have, and hoping there's not one too many)
oldnpastit
Full MemberWith all those lawyers he must be hemorrhaging money.
How long can he sustain it?
The super pac that's fundraising for his "presidential campaign" diverts 10% of all donations to legal funding. And he's been grifting nonstop in his own fundraising, basically working it so that it's all just donations to donald trump to do with whatever he wants,rather than political donations.
No, but it will demonstrate to a jury that he knew what he was doing. One important thing about Trump is that, despite lying shamelessly at nearly every opportunity, he knows to shut up in court and not get caught lying there.
His lawyers conundrum - they need him not to go on stand as he will at some point do his equivalent of 'you can't handle the truth', but also he needs to explain a lot of his actions. I can only think they're desperately looking for a technical get-out-of-jail (literally!) card to play.
Supreme Court decision just opened the possibility of new charges for the insurrection.
https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1673852864408559616
The odious one's odious children - ivanka, donald jnr & eric - have had nothing to say for some time.
The daughter appears to have dis-associated herself from him; have the sons been told to say nothing as the shit is already deep enough or have they decided it's time to walk away?
Both jnr and eric are still babbling away but only on the truth social and other nutter sites. The media cant be arsed reporting on them in the main so unless you going looking you get to live in happy ignorance of them.
On another forum occasionally see some of the more moronic statements from them posted to laugh at.
The odious one’s odious children – ivanka, donald jnr & eric – have had nothing to say for some time.
You, like Trump, have forgotten about Tiffany.
https://www.indy100.com/news/tiffany-trump-snubbed-daughter-father-9708361
https://twitter.com/UROCKlive1/status/1136775233493323776
https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1677503268015026178
Jnr has a pretty strict policy of only posting stuff online when he’s absolutely off his tits, these days.
So most of the time then?
He was supposed to be touring Australia but it ran into some hiccups.
