[Closed] Donald! Trump!

Trump didn't look comfortable at all, looked like he was thinking to himself "shit..."

So would you, if you'd just had a private meeting with the president who could tell you, for first time, the things that only people at the top of government (or about to be) and of the security services are allowed to know. It must be sobering. Rather him than me.

Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states? I worked around some of these industries in the 90s and wonder if this is even remotely possible? He has also pledges that he will force US companies to bring back manufacturing from the far east? again is this possible?

I guess that depends whether the people will pay for it....

and this story just appeared in my local North Vancouver news, tell me trump's actions aren't contributing to this!

http://www.nsnews.com/news/swastika-spray-painted-on-north-vancouver-street-1.2625586
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Trump plans to cut taxes not raise them so Americans paying for that type of investment is unlikley and I doubt there is any appetite in the US venture capital/investment market to start building auto parts manufacturing factories even if the tax breaks are massive - robbing peter to steal from Paul methinks

Someone pointed out on Question Time that trump may not actually want to be president just fancied winning it?

and this story just appeared in my local North Vancouver news, tell me trump's actions aren't contributing to this!

http://www.nsnews.com/news/swastika-spray-painted-on-north-vancouver-street-1.2625586
[img] [/img]

Has the upcoming fraud trial regarding 'trump university' suddenly vanished?

Not at all. Fraud is a bit of an exageration though, students are complaining they didn't get as good a course as they expected. More "trades description"

One of the rape accusations/law suits was dropped before the election.

In other news it was reported that Clinton may be given a Presidential pardon for any illegal activity which [b]may[/b] have taken place. Not even sure that's possible but it sounds very dodgy.

@rs is that a Trump hater saying he is a Nazi ? Vancouver is pretty liberal yes, heavily Democrat area ? Don't know. All racism is vile.

US has the difficult job of coming together or at least just live and let live. We see here on STW the fallout of Brexit and that is small beer in comparison to Trump's election.

Someone pointed out on Question Time that trump may not actually want to be president just fancied winning it?

He certainly seemed to have had a change of mood somewhat at the Obama meeting.

Maybe it's finally dawning on him that he'll actually have to follow through his vague promises of making everything "better" with some actual detailed policies.

He'll need a lot of help...

To be fair on Jamby; he has made some valid points that I have found enlightening in terms of what were dealing with- read between the lines guys.

http://socialistreview.org.uk/378/lessons-of-defeat

Trotsky and his German supporters pleaded in vain with the Communists to concentrate their efforts on the key issues of the moment, above all the threat of Nazism: "Denying this threat, belittling it, failing to take it seriously is the greatest crime that can be committed today."

Trotsky warned, would find the Nazis riding "over your skulls and spines like a terrifying tank"

I love history...god damnit I have a lot of ideas swirling around at the moment.

He'll need a lot of help...

This isnt just about white people feeling a bit poor and forgotten is it, its bigger than that and doesnt explain the upper middle class college educated whites voting for him. Replace communism with identity politics guys....

Fascism is often considered a reaction to communist and socialist uprisings in Europe.[23] Italian fascism, founded and led by Benito Mussolini, took power after years of leftist unrest led many conservatives to fear that a communist revolution was inevitable. Historians Ian Kershaw and Joachim Fest argue that in the early 1920s the Nazis were only one of many nationalist and fascist political parties contending for the leadership of Germany's anti-communist movement.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communism#Fascism_and_far-right_politics

Tom thanks, people need someone to be mad at and it's often me. The world is going to have to work out how to deal with him, Anericans too. The Mexicans have been pretty conciliatory in public as they have to be as the US is such a big trading partner.

He's old and way out of his depth so it wont last long but I feel Its now more important then ever the UK and EU liberal leftish parties reflect the wide spread anti golbalization sentiment and close the door thas currently swinging wipe open for any lunatic (like trump) to step through.

@rs is that a Trump hater saying he is a Nazi ? Vancouver is pretty liberal yes, heavily Democrat area ? Don't know. All racism is vile.

I doubt its a trump hater, trump inspired hater more likely, I assume its some sad little man feeling a little empowered on the back of trumps win. Of course that feeling isn't as predominant here, and why the situation in the US should make them feel empowered here is dumb but a little worrying too.

I've been reading the [url= https://twitter.com/ShaunKing ]Shaun King twitter[/url] feed (you should all check it if you haven't already) during the day which is saddening enough, to finish the day seeing that in my own neighbourhood, its just a massive FFS, what a sad world we're living in type of feeling 😕

To dimiss Trump and many of those who voted for him by saying that they are unfit to hold office or stupid and that democracy has failed, is arguably flawed prejudiced reasoning.

I think supporters of the American democratic system can make a compelling argument that the Trump phenomenon is succesful democracy in action. The approach of the establishment in the Republican and Democratic parties in the last decade or two seems to have been to take their core voting groups for granted and focus on 'triangulation' and winning swing voters in the swing states, and saying to those swing voters whatever they thought would get their vote. Neither party had anything major to offer those Americans who have seen living standards stay static/fall, presumably because it was too difficult/impossible to develop an economic strategy that would deliver against the background of low Chinese labour costs, the financial crash, a couple of expensive wars and probably a lot of vested interests.

What destroyed that comfortable two party status quo was the US Primary system that allowed a maverick outsider, who was regarded as an enemy within by many Republicans, to win the nomination.

And for all his faults and flaws, I can't help wondering if he might just pull it off. If he did, he would go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents. The Republicans in Congress and the Senate could doubtless prevent Trump making many reforms, but the problem for them - and the Democrats - may be that the dam has burst and the electorate will no longer vote for the same old same old, and will turn to whoever promises to make major change, and will keep voting for more radical/maverick candidates until they get what they want.

It may be that Trump will have a window of opportunity to implement economic reforms that otherwise would not happen:

- he has probably more political clout to carry momentum forward than any recent new President, and the establishment Republicans probably know that they have to work with him to succeed, otherwise they face the prospect of an even angrier electorate throwing them all out in the next elections in favour of another protest/voice of change candidate.
- economic factors may be much more in the USA's favour than in the last decade, e.g. low energy costs thanks to fracking etc. and possibly reducing labour cost differentials compared with Mexico/China
- no expensive wars
- if his proposal goes ahead to allow/force Apple etc. to bring profits held offshore into the USA at a favorable tax rate, that could both give him a large tax windfall for infrastructure projects and also result in a lot of investment of those repatriated profits in USA based businesses
- if he's as big a narcissist as some people say, nothing would probably motivate him more than the prospect of being lauded as a great President.

Ronald Reagan was similarly demonised by the left, especially outside the USA, but I think was widely considered by most Americans to have been a very good President (and to have been much smarter than many gave him credit for being).

That all said, whatever actually happens and whether or not it proves to be good for the USA and the rest of the world as a whole, there is clearly going to be a lot of change and uncertainty, and it's always the weak and the poor who suffer most during major upheavals. I dread to think what it must like for those Americans who currently depend upon the Affordable Care Act to get access to decent health care and who now face losing that.

"Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states?"

Perhaps the *threat* of high import Tariffs might stop manufacturing firms moving their production to Mexico or China, without sparking retaliatory Tariffs.

I've wondered over the last few years if the conventional wisdom that using Tariffs to protect your jobs is true when one country is so competitive than they take pretty much *all* the developed world manufacturing. What could they really do to retaliate that's worse than the current situation?

However, I assume if there was a way to save manufacturing in the rust belt previous administration's would already have done it, so my bet is no.

If boosting an economy was as simple as building a load of infrastructure and collecting hard to collect taxes, wouldn't everyone be doing it?

The Republicans in Congress and the Senate could doubtless prevent Trump making many reforms, but the problem for them - and the Democrats - may be that the dam has burst and the electorate will no longer vote for the same old same old, and will turn to whoever promises to make major change, and will keep voting for more radical/maverick candidates until they get what they want.

Ronald Reagan was similarly demonised by the left, especially outside the USA, but I think was widely considered by most Americans to have been a very good President (and to have been much smarter than many gave him credit for being).

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#SecondAmmendmentSolutions

Manufacturing jobs have already started to return from China to the US and espcially to Mexico.

The only reason China is still economically competetive with the rest of the manufacturing world (Turkey/Mexico/India/Bangladesh) is due to manipulation of their currency...another Trumpfact thats actually just a fact.

If Trump does lable China a currency manipulator and it's approved by the senate, imported Chinese goods would face an automatic 27% import fee ontop of any other imports fees.

This [i]could[/i] lead to low skilled manufacturing jobs returning to the US in the near term...problematically, high tech manufacturing jobs woudn't return nearly so quickly. China is especially well setup for this type of manufacturng and assembly now after decades of investment by both the chinese goverment and foreign companies. So, americans would possibly bring back some jobs, but would pay higher prices for tech goods assembled elsewhere.

"The only reason China is still economically competetive with the rest of the manufacturing world (Turkey/Mexico/India/Bangladesh) is due to manipulation of their currency...another Trumpfact thats actually just a fact.
If Trump does lable China a currency manipulator and it's approved by the senate, imported Chinese goods would face an automatic 27% import fee ontop of any other imports fees.
This could lead to low skilled manufacturing jobs returning to the US in the near term...problematically, high tech manufacturing jobs woudn't return nearly so quickly. China is especially well setup for this type of manufacturng and assembly now after decades of investment by both the chinese goverment and foreign companies. So, americans would possibly bring back some jobs, but would pay higher prices for tech goods assembled elsewhere."

I accept all of this. But it leaves the question: Why haven't previous regimes done it?

Trump looks like he's sitting himself in that video work Obama, h es, just had good cheers security briefing by the big boys, do I think it may be dawning on him, what his new job actually entails.

Former employee on the radio was saying that Trump didn't like working every day, and quite often couldn't be reached, things are gonna change.... Or he'll just delegate everything to his republican Bible thumping staff 😯

If tartifs were put on Chinese good would that mean everything made in China would go up ? So basically every computer and phone? !

Re death threats to Trump, I'm sure Obama has had many more, although suppose trumps creditors will be added to this list 😉

The bigger picture is that here in the west, people want to have their cake and eat it, and have had 30 years of politicians telling them that that's exactly what they can have. They want cheap consumer goods, but don't want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don't want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren't prepared to save for them. They don't want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren't prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it. Add to that the fact that they see celebrity culture shoved down their throats every day by the media showing them that the rich don't have to live by the same constraints as everyone else, and the result is millions of spoilt children who can't do anything other than shout 'it's not fair!' and throw a tantrum.

Maybe massive social upheaval and destruction is required to shake people our of their fantasy world? It definitely seems to be headed that way.

Agreed Dazh

Agreed Dazh

+1

The Reagan comparison is an interesting one. In many ways he oversaw (caused might be going to far) the problems that led to the current election.
It was during his administration that semi-skilled and skilled manual jobs were lost to automation and foreign economies. And there was a lot of pain for the have nots. Check out the music of the time -Springsteen perhaps.
The haves of course did splendidly.
And that problem hasn't been solved yet.

And perhaps it can't be (at least not as Trump describes it), because if the trade barriers go up, it is manufacturing that will return not necessarily jobs. Why? Because if you build manufacturing capacity today you build it around robots not people. Think about car plants, steel making - they're the obvious ones, but all manufacturing will be like this to some extent.

There probably will be a solution - but not this one.

WHAT Dazh said and by the spade load- we want contradictory things so we are open to folk promising undeliverable BS

To dimiss Trump and many of those who voted for him by saying that they are unfit to hold office or stupid and that democracy has failed, is arguably flawed prejudiced reasoning.

I think supporters of the American democratic system can make a compelling argument that the Trump phenomenon is succesful democracy in action.

it's always the weak and the poor who suffer most during major upheavals.

I think the chance of Trump even trying to help the poor - though he may well try to help America with isolationist policies - that others will retaliate to making everyone worse off - ie steel tariffs to Mexico and china who then put tariff on so he puts tarrifs on etc]

"The bigger picture is that here in the west, people want to have their cake and eat it, and have had 30 years of politicians telling them that that's exactly what they can have. They want cheap consumer goods, but don't want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don't want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren't prepared to save for them. They don't want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren't prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it."

+1 to all that except the words of the politicians are a symptom, not a cause.

Good post that, Dazh

Reagan is interesting 'cos history treats him well- mainly because of his rapprochement with the USSR and the various bomb reduction treaties.

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EVIL.

Tj:

Regan didn't help the middle East, armed Iran rebels stoking sectarianism and Saddam, catastrophic in Lebanon its never settled down since (it was no basket of roses b4 him obvs)

"Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states?"

No it's a pipe dream - like all gesture politics. And the losers? The poor folk who believe it.

"stoking sectarianism and Saddam,"

Putting/Keeping Saddam in place was very wise. Both at the time and especially in hindsight.

Trade tariffs will only work if there's an alternative, like with cars. Americans drive around in shite cars because foreign cars are expensive to them.

I'm not sure they're going to be able to produce LCD tellies and phones very easily though. So people will start feeling poor when suddenly they can't afford cheap consumer goods, and the ones they need start taking up more of their income.

What Dazh said plus I would add that its easier to borrow money than to save with our historic low interest rates, there is no encouragement to save or invest.

For those saying Trump isn't racist; we can engage in semantics about Mexicans and muslims not being races but overall when you say the things Trump has done, you're a racist. If he doesn't believe what he says it's not somehow "better", it's almost worse because it indicates his willingness to debase and compromise himself in order to appeal to racists and it's not easy to know what depths he's prepared to plumb.

Ditto for misogyny.

Trumps says that the current protests are "unfair".
Wah! Wah! Wah! It no fair! Etc.
😆

the politicians are a symptom, not a cause.

Yes but the politicians are in the unique position of being able to guide and change attitudes and have access to information which the rest of us don't. It's their job to deal with these issues and do what's in the long term interests of the country (probably being naive there!). They can't absolve themselves of this responsibility just because it might make them unpopular. I guess this is the major weakness of democracy. You don't see the Chinese govt setting policy based on opinion polls.

Trumps says that the current protests are "unfair".
Wah! Wah! Wah! It no fair! Etc

What do the protestors want, another election?

They want cheap consumer goods, but don't want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don't want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren't prepared to save for them. They don't want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren't prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it.

This is obvious to any people that have a level of awareness and reasoning. The problem is that nobody is making this clear to those that don't.

It needs to be made simple and clear based on the areas you have listed
- Pensions. People are living longer so more money needs to go into them (your money)
- NHS. People are living longer and there are more people so more money needs to go into it (your money)
- Immigration. Country is making profit from immigration and immigrants are not taking your jobs, they are filling gaps/bringing skills/doing jobs UK people don't want to do
- Environment. Not convinced the masses really care about it...

Or you could just not bother with that and blame it all on immigrants

What do the protestors want, another election?

Its not hard to see why folk are a wee but angry at this outcome whether you agree with them or not.

Always surprises me how americans have no issue with the electoral college not reflecting the actual votes cast as they did not "really" win and why they dont just add up all the votes and declare that person the most popular.

NB I do understand the system I just dont think it is that good.