[Closed] Donald! Trump!

5thElefant - Member

[s]Less[/s]Fewer people voted republican than the last two elections too

Interesting thread, which seems to blowing itself out. After the shock, the outrage and the general negativity, one things for sure, what with Brexit and Trump, it's certainly going to be an interesting few years ahead!

Agreed. European Soveriegn Debt crises to follow 2017 elections (delibertaely kicked into long grass beyond that date but most certainly not gone away), US getting less involved in conflicts leaving Europe to sort out its own issues. I'll be interested to see what Trump does about the 10's if not 100's of billions of taxes gone unpaid by US tech companies hidden offshore (Ireland and Lux). US / EU relations could get very frosty indeed.

I'll be interested to see what Trumpmdoes about the 10's if not 100's of billions of taxes gone unpaid by US tech companies hidden offshore (Ireland and Lux).

Surely he will congratulate them on how smart they are 😀

Le Pen in France is far worse than Trump in the US for their own respective countries. For the world I guess Trump has the potential to be far more damaging but I have a feeling (as do EU people I speak to here) that France electing the FN will kick the door in to an almost total breakdown of the EU as it currently stands.

Is anyone else concerned that there is soon the possibility that 'The Donald' and our own stupid-haired, principle-free, tell-em-what-they-want-to-hear, man-baby will be conducting negotiations together?

This could surely create a critical mass of self-absorbed narcissism that could form a vortex that could destroy the whole planet? Gone! Destroyed as we all dissapear into a massive, weird, odd-cloured wig 😯

Jamba the furher

read this quote from your link

A US Government Accountability Office report discovered no hint of wrongdoing, but concluded the IHRC's decisions were "not necessarily aligned with Haitian priorities".

Which is hugely different from your lie that Clinton took money or her own gain.

Because life is not all about politics.
I certainly wouldn't vote for her.
Difference between her and Trump is that she is part of the political establishment, she only got where she is because of her dad.
Outsider in French election? Macron probably. Not a politician as such but has deep roots in financial world ( worked for Rotchild bank I think) which might go against him.
Apart from Le Pen, I can't see anyone else worst than Hollande.

[i]Academia has long been poisoned by left wing knobs[/i]

Er, have you ever stopped to think critically about what the sentiment 'academia is full of left wing people' is actually stating. Always makes me chuckle hearing it being used negatively...kind of shooting yourself in the foot... 😀

I'll be interested to see what Trumpmdoes about the 10's if not 100's of billions of taxes gone unpaid by US tech companies hidden offshore (Ireland and Lux)

As an aside, what is the May UK Government doing about it? For ages a lot of UK companies were using Luxembourg, Ireland etc to get tax breaks. Not seen much evidence of the newly minted against-EU-tax-havens Tory government chasing BA, for example, for back taxes.

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him[/url]

FN is the only party offering a Referendum on euro/EU so it's the onky choice for voters who care about that issue.

That's a bit (pardon the pun) black and white though, isn't it. If the BNP said "we'll built dutch style cycle infrastructure across the UK. Also we'll put all Muslims in internment camps and ban non-whites from using the NHS and publicly funded schools" then I wouldn't vote for them. I care about cycle infrastructure but I also care about, y'know, basic human decency. What line would be crossed for an EU referendum to be not worth voting for someone? For some (nutjobs) nothing would be worth it, for others it would be a smaller thing. Surely most voters have a long list of issues that they care about and a vote is a balancing act between those priorities.

Er, have you ever stopped to think critically about what the sentiment 'academia is full of left wing people' is actually stating.

I was going to say similar.

You get a bunch of intelligent pepole all together to really study something, and you get a left wing bias. I wonder why...!

If you vote with racists regardless of reason you are no better than them. All you achieve is to enable them.

And the Nuremberg defence is no defence. You can't say just following orders, you can't say i didn't think it would go this far etc etc etc.

Human nature has not and does not change, there will always be those who can magic up solutions and blame them. There will always be a significant part of society that has "failed" that rather than try and change what is, will blame them.

Go and have a read of some history books start with Thucydides and work forward. Time and time again egos, lies, promises and here we go again.

Because life is not all about politics.

Agreed but you did suggest you where leaving the UK due to Brexit impact and increased intolerance ? My point was France is in a worse state. Intolerance here has been inflamed by terrorist attack after terrorist attack. The army have gone from just guarding Jewish schools and synagogues to now patrolling the streets, they walk past our place a few times every day. We see them patrolling the park and the playground. This is all post Nice with the public (quite rationally) asking why their schools where not protected too. We live opposite a school, it now has a security system so you cannot get in. It didn't used to be like this. The army are protecting France's citizens against other French and EU citizens. The Army and this is in a country where the police are fully armed. Now will you feel safer being in the countryside or wonder whether you are a soft target ? This state of affairs imo has more to do with FN's rise than the EU which is "my" main issue.

Becoming a professor does not mean everything you say is correct, especially when it comes to politics - but I accept it unfortunately results in many believing 2+2=5

Apart from Le Pen, I can't see anyone else worst than Hollande

Sarko 2.0?

Jamby has fallen hook, line and sinker for the fn's rebranding trick. Daddy Lepen has been only too willing to play along, by being more and more extreme to make the following generation look more acceptable.

Even if she's the only presidential candidate proposing a referendum on the EU (which she isn't, there's also Dupont-Aignan) you'd still be siding with the monarchists, the hard core catholics and the pieds noirs, all of which are the traditional voting base for the fn.

Becoming a professor does not mean everything you say is correct

Of course. But the majority of professors in the majority of universities...? The job of an academic is to study something objectively. So we could then conclude that the objectively best way to run a country lies somewhere on the left of the political spectrum, could we not?

Planning application in for Donald's wall

Trail build outside mexican restaurant in aberdeen

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Left wing people in academia is not necessarily cause and effect. People of a left wing persuasion are probably drawn more to academia than others who see academia as a mechanism to get a skillset they take out into the big wide world. In anycase education and intelligence doesn't guarantee that the right decisions are made. Plenty of clever people make poor decisions all the time. There are plenty of intelligent stupid people or highly educated stupid people out there.

Brexit and Trump are clearly protests against the established system. I heard a shocking fact on R4 this morning that vast swathes of the American people haven't seen a their pay or quality of life improve since the '70's. So it's no surprise that if you're in that situation you are bound to feel let down by the system and the established political system who obviously don't have any interest in doing anything about it. A vote for Clinton was a vote for a continuation of norm, nothing will change or improve. A vote for Trump was a vote for something different - a roll of the dice, when you feel you're already at rock bottom then you will feel you've got nothing to lose.

I just hope that this does wake up those in power and triggers some real and fundamental change. If not then things will get a bit fruity going forward.

wobbliscott - same reason that massive amounts of working class northerners, and people in Wales voted for Brexit, when logically it makes no sense, and the 'liberal elite' couldn't understand it.

Its because they feel, completely correctly, that they've been absolutely abandoned by a Westminster establishment (of all colours) that genuinely doesn't give a **** about them, so why not try a leap in the dark?

Surely it can't be any worse?

Our decision to move to France was made before Brexit, but Brexit confirmed it was the right choice for my family and I.
Maybe it is because you are new to France, but army patroling the streets is nothing new.
France has always been the target for terrorists, eta, brigades rouges, Carlos etc...

A National Front win at the national level will give you "Brexit plus plus plus" in France.

Except Binners that they were abandoned by Westminster and decided to hand more power (perhaps) to Westminster.

Mad.

I heard a shocking fact on R4 this morning that vast swathes of the American people haven't seen a their pay or quality of life improve since the '70's.

Having access to health care isn't a step change in terms of quality of life?
Shame that will be undone very soon.

Anyway, wasn't that Steve Hilton on R4 again, floating mid-Atlantic, warning about the effects of globalisation (the Irony King).

In anycase education and intelligence doesn't guarantee that the right decisions are made.

Of course.

However it seems, from watching politics, that a significant number of politicians, particularly right-wing ones, like to conveniently ignore facts or deliberately under-research things, to support things they've already decided they want to do.

The army are protecting France's citizens against other French and EU citizens.

We had that over here in the 70's and 80's or have you forgotten that?

igm - I'm not saying I agree with the conclusion they reached. Quite the opposite. I think its insane! But I understand fully how we got there. In the same way as those in the Westminster bubble don't.

But I think there's going to be a whole world of shit goes down when these people realise how compressively they've been conned, and played for mugs!

Same with Trump in the states. Both have done the same thing. Promised change, and ... *whisper it*... 'hope' to a section of the population that has been, at best ignored, and at worst villified by the establishment

Trouble is that they've done it cynically, for their own ends, with no intention of delivering the outcomes they promised, and no care to the consequences

When this becomes apparent, which it will very rapidly (hence the silence from the brexiteers) I predict serious social unrest. Boris, Farage, Trump and the rest of these Hucksters and charlatans are playing a lot more dangerous game than they arrogantly think they're getting away with. For now

A vote for Clinton was a vote for a continuation of norm, nothing will change or improve. A vote for Trump was a vote for something different - a roll of the dice, when you feel you're already at rock bottom then you will feel you've got nothing to lose.

Its because they feel, completely correctly, that they've been absolutely abandoned by a Westminster establishment (of all colours) that genuinely doesn't give a **** about them, so why not try a leap in the dark?

and ^^

It was always going to be this way, and the fact that you didn't have to be some kind of political genius to see it, makes the campaigning strategies of team Clinton, and the Remainers look even more stupid.
They gave no hope or plan to the millions that have fallen off life's tightrope.

I heard a shocking fact on R4 this morning that vast swathes of the American people haven't seen a their pay or quality of life improve since the '70's.

Is that empirically true or is it more of a reflection of how those people feel?

I understand this disenfranchised/left-behind argument and it is definitely a driving force. But are we saying that nearly half of voters in America, 60 million people, feel this way?

Exactly Binners.
That is why I hope that Trump election is the bottom and the only way is up.

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Of course. But the majority of professors in the majority of universities...? The job of an academic is to study something objectively. So we could then conclude that the objectively best way to run a country lies somewhere on the left of the political spectrum, could we not?

The sad reality is you don't get on in academia unless you tow the red line. The more vocal you are, particularly nowadays on social media the more progress you make. Utterly sickening.

"@clod not gleeful at all but it is what it is and we should try and understand why it happened and make sure we make the best of it. I have to say thinking that it was "rich white people" that lead to the victory is particularly dangerous certainly for those on the left here. Rich white people supported Hillary as part of the $1billion she spent, double that of Trump. I also think Trump's victory helps us materially with Brexit not least as it will lead to stronger electoral performance of those in Europe who want to radically reform the EU."

That's not really answering my question, which was about you appearing to endorse a racist, misogynist egomaniac. You then go on to state that you would support the Front National because you believe their policies favour your own ideological beliefs.

You do realise you appear to be supporting racist, misogynist, fascist egomaniacal scum, don't you?

Why?

GrahamS

I understand this disenfranchised/left-behind argument and it is definitely a driving force. But are we saying that nearly half of voters in America, 60 million people, feel this way?

In addition to those that feel left behind or abandoned you have those who feel like mainstream politics in the U.S is broken, an old boys network that exists to serve itself, and Hilary is the embodiment of that. A lot of people want to throw a spanner into that system and see what happens.

In addition to that I think there's been a a huge polarization of political leanings in the U.S and Trump is not the cause, he's just riding the crest of the wave. It has been touched on in this thread and I believe it to be true that the left has become completely toxic, regressive and self destructive.

The default tactic is now to attack the person in the most vehement terms in the hope to destroy them, rather than dissect their argument.

eg.

maxtorque

If you're happy to be respected by a racist c**t then fair doo's that's your choice

Junkyard

I am genuinely astounded so many folk could vote for a racist sexist, woman assaulting orange quifured man child with anger management issue.

clodhopper - Member

Jambalaya; I have to say, you seem almost gleeful that Hilary Clinton was beaten by a racist, misogynist egomaniac. You've been very highly critical of Hilary (I don't have an issue with that, for she is truly vile), yet I can't recall you ever directing such a critical eye towards Trump. That's, racist, misogynistic, egomaniacal Donald Trump. I find this somewhat perplexing, given your outspoken behaviour regarding the alleged 'anti-Semitism' in the Labour party. Surely someone who is so dedicated towards challenging xenophobia would be very critical of someone like racist, misogynistic, egomaniacal Donald Trump. But you're not.

So, could you explain this for me? Thanks.

.....and the impression I get from reading threads like these on American forums is that it has gotten to the point where people simply don't give a **** anymore. That's not to say they don't give a **** about racism, it's that "racist" "sexist" misogynist" "homophobe" "transphobe" etc are thrown around so quickly and with such deliberate intent to shut down debate that they have actually lost all effect and are basically back firing.

enfht - Member

The sad reality is you don't get on in academia unless you tow the red line. The more vocal you are, particularly nowadays on social media the more progress you make. Utterly sickening.

that is quite simply absolute bollox

please provide me with some evidence of this happening at all, let alone that its endemic

Donald can't be all bad. His mum was from Lewis and liked motorbikes... 🙂

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"Academia has long been poisoned by left wing knobs"

I've read plenty of ignorant and deluded bollocks on here, but this is right up there.

So much hate; so much ignorance, so little understanding. 🙁

Some in Government think they have just been dealt the Brexit Trump card

GrahamS - it is correct, but misleading.

Average standard of living hasn't improved in the States for a very long time - but average hides what is going on. It has improved for most people in any given type of job. However skilled manual jobs have been replaced either by automation or by importing finished goods. So the professional middle classes and above have done ok, but the manual middle class has largely disappeared and those people are now doing lower graded jobs and displacing the people that used to do those jobs.
So the standard of living if anyone in a given class of job has improved, but the average has stayed static and for a lot of people they are now in a worse class of job.
The luddites would recognise the situation. While you can put up trade barriers, destroying automation will be harder.

I don't think I have the answer.

Brickies are going to do OK for a few years.

"My point was France is in a worse state. Intolerance here has been inflamed by terrorist attack after terrorist attack. The army have gone from just guarding Jewish schools and synagogues to now patrolling the streets, they walk past our place a few times every day. We see them patrolling the park and the playground. This is all post Nice with the public (quite rationally) asking why their schools where not protected too. We live opposite a school, it now has a security system so you cannot get in. It didn't used to be like this. The army are protecting France's citizens against other French and EU citizens. "

Nothing from you regarding the massive increase in attacks on Muslims, their property and mosques recently, Jamba?

No in-depth analysis as to why French Muslims may be feeling particularly demonised, why their communities have been targeted by police and racists for decades, why Muslims are pretty much the only religious group in France to have oppressive laws used deliberately against them?

http://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=1269021&x=-2.754706&y=49.698802&z=13

Nothing about Muslim women being deliberately targeted and humilated by French police?

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clodhopper

Nothing about Muslim women being deliberately targeted and humilated by French police?

That poor woman. One week after a Muslim murdered 90 people (many of them children) in the name of Islam by crushing them with a lorry, one mile away from that beach, she was embarrassed by police enforcing a law that France already had in place.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/rise-of-the-davos-class-sealed-americas-fate ]Worth a read.[/url]