[Closed] Donald! Trump!

I don't give a crap about Clinton Jamby, what I want to know is how you can support an utter populist like Trump and call yourself British or a Conservative? We've got hundreds of years of resisting these ****tards, from the French Revolution to Communism and then Fascism. Because we knew what the plebs were capable of and thus kept them in their places, either through subtle coercion or force.

People like you are undermining a glorious history of tea drinking snobbery and the killing of foreign upstarts.

Not surprised by your FN support Jambalaya.
She is trying to dampen the fascist image of her party, with limited success. Fortunately her dad does his best to contradict her.

[quote=outofbreath ]Trump's not really anti abortion, it's just rhetoric to win votes.

I don't think I was suggesting he was, simply that some people voted for him just because of that issue. Which is kind of the point.

Yep irony of dismissing Clinton as corrupt when in the same room as Trump isnt lost. It says more about the Trump lovers than anything else.
As for malt the most innovative and progressive makers are within 50 miles of me here is tasmania not going to be doing the massive volumes but nailing the good stuff.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/16/the-american-prophet-who-predicted-trump.html

Trump’s followers have responded most enthusiastically to the candidate’s diatribes against such devils as Mexicans and other “illegal immigrants,” Muslims of any stripe, unattractive or pushy women, clueless policy-makers, “loser” opposing candidates, and reporters who ask him other than softball questions.

The pollsters tell us that Trump’s followers share a decided affinity for authoritarianism, as well as beliefs that government causes more problems than it solves and that immigrants (and people with darker skins, and women) have stolen their jobs and their futures.

More: Trumpsters have little regard for facts that contradict their stances. Hoffer could have predicted this. [b]“It is the true believer’s ability to ‘shut his eyes and stop his ears’ to facts that do not deserve to be either seen or heard which is the source of his unequaled fortitude and constancy[/b]. He cannot be frightened by danger nor disheartened by obstacle nor baffled by contradictions because he denies their existence.”

Hoffer described in detail who the true believers were: the frustrated, the disaffected, the dissatisfied with the status quo, those who put their faith in a leader promising simple yet radical solutions to their and society’s problems. “We join a mass movement,” Hoffer wrote, “to escape individual responsibility, or, in the words of the young Nazi, ‘to be free from freedom.’
“Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for the loss of faith in ourselves.

“All mass movements deprecate the present,” wrote Hoffer, “and there is no more potent dwarfing of the present than by viewing it as a mere link between a glorious past and a glorious future.” That’s what Trump is doing when he vows to “make America great again”—celebrating what was and will be, while denigrating what is.

Trumpsters are predominantly white, native-born American males who do not have college degrees, and are economically in the lower middle class rather than among the very poorest. Actually, in these ways they are more like Eric Hoffer than many other Americans. In a 1964 article, Hoffer identified himself and his fellow longshoremen as white men from poor backgrounds, with little education and no skills except for their willingness to do backbreaking manual labor, who “do not feel that the world owes us anything, or that we owe anybody—white, black, or yellow—a damn thing.”

Sound like anyone on here, guys?

@aracer yes I think when 1 issue is important enough people (inc me) will overlook short comings elsewhere. I don't believe FN are a racist party FWIW

Not surprised by your FN support Jambalaya.
She is trying to dampen the fascist image of her party, with limited success. Fortunately her dad does his best to contradict her.

His daughter has had him kicked out of FN

FN are only party suggesting a Referendum on euro / EU - you can elect a government for 1 term to deliver that

Again, that's what a lot of the people who voted Nazi in the 30's thought - they thought that the Nazi party had been gentrified. For someone so educated, you're being an utter fool Jamby, you're better than this - I know it.

[quote=jambalaya ]I don't believe FN are a racist party FWIW

Ah - what did you mean by this then?

[quote=jambalaya ]

Andy - they probably don't like the 41% increase in racism it comes with.

They are coming from France where Front Nationale are the most popular party

“I moved on her and I failed – I’ll admit it,” he says, continuing: “I did try and **** her, she was married. And I moved on her very heavily.

“In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said: ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’ I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married.

Let's put those words in the mouth of someone who looks......like......we'll......this:

[img] [/img]

And imagine he was talking about Mrs Trump.

Do you reckon Donald would let him shrug his shoulders and say "eeeez just ze locker room banter"?

I really did think the Brexit vote was the nadir, now I'm not so sure where the bottom of the barrel is.

I'm just hoping that the bottom of the barrel is a dead [i]Il Douche[/i] hanging naked upside down from a petrol station, along with his wife and family.

Hopefully that will serve as a poignant reminder to all the cretins that history informs the present. Robert Theobald’s parable of the frog comes to mind in which Frogs permit themselves to be slowly boiled to death. If the cool temperature of the water in which the frog is immersed is slowly raised, the frog does not become aware of its danger until it is too late to do anything about it.

Trump's won and I'll wait until he does something I disagree with before slagging him off.

Let's make this country great again:

[img] ?imgmax=1600[/img]

Bollocks:

[img] [/img]

Tom I hear you .. However I do believe the Hitler comparisons are very much overdone. Trump isn't a Nazi and neither is Marine Le Penn. A repetion of 1936 Germany simply is not possible today in Western Europe.

Interesting comments now on Newsnight, the Brexit references during the campaign are consistent with a [b]worldwide[/b] movement against globalisation and the establishment elite. In the end that was the cruicial issue.

EDIT: Alan Greenspan ex head of the Federal Reserve said he didn't vote for anyone for President 😐

Just to cheer you all up, I don't think we've done this one yet:

https://medium.com/@theonlytoby/history-tells-us-what-will-happen-next-with-brexit-trump-a3fefd154714#.p9u6kbsu5

edit: crossposted with jamba, but an interesting rebuttal to his post

I think something like ... Fund raising via Clinton Foundation for earthquake relief then spending the money for personal gain / influence.

A repetion of 1936 Germany simply is not possible today in Western Europe.

Thank heavens. I can go to sleep soundly now jambalaya has reassured me.

Are we onto just straight piss-taking now? How the **** can you be so sure?

@dannyh UN, NATO and countries just don't have the military means

Perhaps I should take a break, people seem to be getting very wound up. I would have voted for Hillary but with a very heavy heart.

Newsnight is a better choice. Will read that link later @aracer

A repetion of 1936 Germany simply is not possible today in Western Europe.

No, not a repeat. But something else. Trumps aims are nothing like Hitler's, but the techniques are so far pretty similar. Likewise May.

the Brexit references during the campaign are consistent with a worldwide movement against globalisation and the establishment elite.

By 'campaign' do you mean the US election campaign?

I really hope this is the start of a worldwide movement to end neo-liberalism. But I hope that does not exclude international co-operation and reduction of borders.

It would be great if Brexit really triggered some kind of proper reform in Europe (the continent, not the EU). Maybe Le Penn winning would start some kind of domino effect, and maybe something positive would come of it.

No, he's not a Nazi, he's a spiteful, unpredictable, populist, lying, man child. I feel better already.

Calexit anyone?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/09/trump-win-california-secede-calexit-silicon-valley?CMP=fb_gu

Unlike Scotland or Yorkshire, California could pay it's way ....

I really hope this is the start of a worldwide movement to end neo-liberalism. But I hope that does not exclude international co-operation and reduction of borders.

Why? Neoliberalism, certainly in terms of freerer trade - is what has allowed poorer countries to compete with us, it's brought untold millions out of poverty. Trump and Le Pen are cynical reactions against that, the reaction of people that believe they are more deserving and entitled to economic prosperity soley due to their nationality.

For this planet to operate at it's most efficient capacity, those meritous enough to succeed should not be held back on the basis of their nationality - even if that means certain sections of society that cannot compete in a higher tech 21st century economy, get left out. They should either accept handouts from the left in terms of fake/pointless state jobs being created to make themselves feel useful, or **** off.

Unlike Scotland or Yorkshire, California could pay it's way ....

California is pretty much bust - tech companies aren't keen on paying tax.

California is pretty much bust - tech companies aren't keen on paying tax.

A repetion of 1936 Germany simply is not possible today in Western Europe.

You are supporting right wing leaders who campaign for more to be spent on the armed forces, and less on helping the less well off.

You are cheerleading for the break up of the EU.

You are welcoming a new POTUS who has ranted against NATO and the role of the USA in keeping the peace in Europe for the last 15 years.

You are hoping for more nativist and nationalist governments in Europe.

So, if European countries are to all start retreating back into their little nationalist enclaves, and spending more on militarisation, and the USA withdraws from NATO… are we making it more or less likely that the mistakes of the C20 can happen again? If things keep playing out politically in ways that you support?

And I haven't mentioned Russia, or the rise of racism, because doing so gets your back up, so ignore those two huge elephants in the room, and discuss the points above. All things that you welcome, and all make us less secure, and more likely to repeat the mistakes of the C20… yes/no/depends… what do you think and why?

I was impressed with Obama today saying he was going to tell his team to work with Trump's team for a smooth handover (as Bush did the same for him). It certainly beats the 'there's no money left, good luck' note that some nugget in the Labour party (Liam Byrne) left for the coalition when they took over. Makes you think . . .

I refer you to DSK, Junkyard. Or Mick Jagger. Gold diggers or genuine victims? Innocent till proven guilty and all that.

Many of the things he shouted about in his campaign were illegal, unconstitutional, need the approval of the house over which he has no more control than Obama, or need the complicity of the supreme court to change. He knew that, it was hot air and I think he'll now get on with being the best president he can. The word I keep hearing that gives me hope is "pragmatist".

"the role of the USA in keeping the peace in Europe for the last 15 years."

Keeping the peace?! Priceless.

there a good article by Naomi Klein in the Guardian today which perhaps explains Jambalaya's points a little

A repetion of 1936 Germany simply is not possible today in Western Europe.

Probably not.

Because the ECHR, NATO, and the EU have been in place to bind Western Europe together legally/socially, militarily and economically. It simply hasn't been possible or worth our while to do what happened through the 1930s and 40s.

Of course no one in their right minds would try to take those three institutions apart, would they Andy?

And yet we find all three under threat.

It's far from inevitable yet, but I suspect the next major European war is coming and will probably start with Russian aggression in what it regards as its sphere of influence (let's be honest we see that already) possibly supported by disgruntled broke countries at the margins of the EU (either just inside or just outside) starting to sympathise and possible ally with Russia. Where the final spark in the tinderbox will be I don't know.

Anyone who thinks hundreds of years of a good European war (Britain will be in Europe under that definition) once a generation is over because, during the 50-70 years that we specifically built structures to stop it, it didn't happen is mad.

"Many of the things he shouted about in his campaign were illegal, unconstitutional, need the approval of the house over which he has no more control than Obama, or need the complicity of the supreme court to change. He knew that, it was hot air and I think he'll now get on with being the best president he can. The word I keep hearing that gives me hope is "pragmatist"."

This. As Obama says he's uniquely unqualified for the job, but he'll have a vast amount of support plus he'll be well boxed in by his own party, events and the establishment.

Also he's not a youngster. The decline between 70 and 80 is steep and plenty of people don't even make 80.

@dannyh UN, NATO and countries just don't have the military means

A good old fashioned arms race will sort that. Keep me posted when politicians start lining us up for rebuilding their nations respective militaries.

Academia has long been poisoned by left wing knobs so its no surprise that students are confused and voted Hillary. Safe Space dogma has hopefully been shattered

You mean they don't like racism or sexism, yeah what a bunch of Pc gone mad knobs

Well done for highlighting the problem so clearly Kimbers...which of the social sciences did you "study" at uni? 😆 😮

Enfht - coming across a bit reactionary there. Carrying a bit of a chip on your shoulder? 😀

Also he's not a youngster. The decline between 70 and 80 is steep and plenty of people don't even make 80.

Are we talking natural wastage or the grassy knoll effect?

which of the social sciences did you "study" at uni?

Fund raising via Clinton Foundation for earthquake relief then spending the money for personal gain / influence.

Have you actually read the piece?

Supporting Le Pen eh? Well that confirms what I suspected.

The Front National Is a racist party, no doubt about that. The few towns where they won elections have had increased police and lots of fascist policies.

I still work in academia, well research, but there's professors and students all over the shop it's a lefty paradise!, I'm not sure if that qualifies me to recognise bigotry when I see it, or if we've just been 'poisoned' in some way ?

In that case you may be too far gone to recognise the signs, we only have your ‘rational’ opinions to go by 😀

Lots of protests in the US last night.
Not a good start.

Interesting thread, which seems to blowing itself out. After the shock, the outrage and the general negativity, one things for sure, what with Brexit and Trump, it's certainly going to be an interesting few years ahead! 😮

Interesting few years? I admire your optimism Rockape

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Daffy - Member

No, he's not a Nazi, he's a spiteful, unpredictable, populist, lying, man child. I feel better already.

Say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, at least it's an ethos.

[url= https://imgur.com/TOGIbcP ]The reason Hillary "lost"[/url], people just didn't turn out for her. Mccain and Romney both had higher votes that Trump.

[img] [/img]

The reason Hillary "lost", people just didn't turn out for her. Mccain and Romney both had higher votes that Trump.

Have you actually read the piece?

Supporting Le Pen eh? Well that confirms what I suspected.

Selective quoting willfully missing off the first part of the sentence - chapeau. Did you read the piece $30m cia Clinton Foundation, small in comparison to Clinton's involvement as Secretary of State but not zero. FN is the only party offering a Referendum on euro/EU so it's the onky choice for voters who care about that issue. Cameron was smart enough to take that option away from UKiP. Let's wait and see what happens with UMP policy prior to April/May French election - it's not beyond the realm of possibility they move in the same direction.

cchris if FN is a racist party why would you be choosing to leave the UK to live in a country where Marine Le Penn is looking increasingly likely to be President (raised on Newsnight last night where two commentators said the Trump win had in their view made it very likely she would win)