a poor man’s Mugabe
As insults go, that's a real beauty 👍👍
Biden looked like a frail old man. Made the raging satsuma seem dynamic (in a tartrazine toddler tantrum kind of way). Worrying.
A frail old man? He is!
I know USA election politics has become a WWF WWE takedown… but that might not be the best way to select a decent humane competent POTUS.
I'm not saying who I'd vote for I'm just commenting on how he came across
Yep, tbh Trump just seemed to do the standard issue Trump, but better than he has for a long time. Less gibbering, more actual sentences, basically managed to pull out a bit of "Trump before the syphilis ate his brain" for the evening. Whereas Biden... I dunno, he just didn't seem prepared to actually fight Trump. It's like he'd rehearsed and practiced for a debate against someone else.
None of it really matters- just like last time, teh debate happens and then your broadcaster of choice tells you who won and you believe it because it fits with your preconceptions. If it was really a debate I reckon Biden won it but it's not, and Trump definitely won the TV Game Show imo.
Biden looked like a frail old man. Made the raging satsuma seem dynamic (in a tartrazine toddler tantrum kind of way). Worrying.
Agree with the description of Angry Tinkerbell, but what I saw of Biden in the bits on the news was an experienced politician pushed to his limit of patience by said toddler throwing a tantrum, and just about maintaining grace under pressure.
Biden’s mental acuity is frequently called into question by the Donald and his acolytes, because he misspeaks or stumbles, ignoring the fact Angry Tinkerbell can barely form a coherent sentence, let alone an argument: Biden has had a lifelong struggle with a stammer or stutter, so his responses have to be much more considered, and slower, especially under that sort of pressure - I’m sure any on here who suffer that sort of condition will understand completely just how difficult it is to communicate clearly when in a stressed situation.
Something that has been picked up in the Twitterverse is Biden’s response to dT’s reply to the question as to when he would present his tax returns to the public, Biden says “Inshallah”.
Now, that means “God Willing”, but in regular use in Arabic-speaking society, that’s more sarcastic, meaning “whatever”, or “you said Tuesday, you didn’t say which Tuesday”, which isn’t something a frail, borderline senile old man would likely say; Biden is sharp as a tack, but is considered, he’s not a loud, obnoxious bully who’s gameplay is to shout down and talk over anyone who tries to engage with his repeated lies and obfuscation.
The Merkins who are going to decide this election won't see a considered, controlled delivery, they'll read Twitter and make the (fake news) senility connection.
I can see why he was briefed not to go head to head though, you should never argue with an idiot....he should do more ignoring the chump and speaking to the camera those were his better moments, I thought
As far as Biden being a frail old man, Trump can barely stand! Or, you know, walk down a ramp, or hold a glass, or wear clothes tailored for human-shaped people. Maybe we should just settle it with a square go.
Looks like they are considering changing the rules on the next debates, considering giving the moderator control of the mike etc.
Wow.
I can see why he was briefed not to go head to head though, you should never argue with an idiot…
Or wrestle a pig, you’ll end up as dirty as the pig, and the pig’ll enjoy it more.
Angry Tinkerbell’s comments concerning the Proud Boys, “stand down and stand by” is a clear rallying call to Y’all Qaeda.
Im still shocked he said that. That wasn't verbal diarrhoea, it was a deliberate and calculated call to arms. Job done for trump and his backers. He doesn't have to go near issues or anything old fashioned like that. Just thinly veiled or in this case brazen messaging. The far right twittersphere / WhatsApp groups must be buzzin right now.
Now I know them, now I don't...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54359993
Orange buffoon contradicts himself - again; yawn.
What I see is Biden increasing his share of the theoretical vote by: A) A successful campaign to paint him as a decent man, and non-offensive to the centrist republicans/undecideds (which is where Hilary failed), and B) dissuading republicans who voted for trump in 2016 from doing so again.
The thing is.... Trump is doing "B" himself. No way he's growing his share of the vote towards the middle - the opposite in fact.
This is now all just about voter turn-out/suppression - and that's the only way I think Trump could actually win.
Who won the first debate? Putin.
An interesting point in US media yesterday. We forget that the many of the population are not cable news junkies, don't attend his rallies, don't follow him on social media. They're reporting a real sense of shock at that debate performance.
What I see is Biden increasing his share of the theoretical vote by: A) A successful campaign to paint him as a decent man, and non-offensive to the centrist republicans/undecideds
Agreed. Biden is sensibly distancing himself from the "radical left" which is too easy a picking point for Trump and his Trumpets. Presenting himself as the safe not-Trump option.
Note the Biden's statement in that BBC piece:
"I am not going to be a Democratic president. I am going to be an American president."
“I am not going to be a Democratic president.
That’s what trump is aiming for too...
The fallout from the debate seems to be an overwhelming positive for biden in that he didn't really gaffe, as trump wouldn't allow him any time to do so, and the proud boys comment has been rightly picked up and focussed upon by the MSM. And trump came across as a massive bellend - for any of those undecideds.
Surely biden could use this disastrous debate as an excuse to pull out of the two remaining? And limit his losses that way
I don't want to jinx it but it looks like it's just a question of the extent of trump's defeat and what then what move he makes.
Such a shame that biden distanced himself from the Green New Deal, which it's no exaggeration to say, the fate of the world rests upon
my take from watching part of the debate is Trump got what he wanted....he's dragged the process so far down, that any vote apathy will increase. He wants people not to vote, his base will come out regardless, what he needs to stop everyone else from voting. Hence the dismantling of the us postal service and denouncement of mail in ballots.
This debate was only going to hurt Trump, unless he turned it into a shit show. I can easily see the news reports of the debate turning young voters off.
What does Biden intend to do about China? Biden might be politically astute but I doubt he knows everything.
The rise of China and the future of US manufacturing
China’s overseas lending and the looming developing country debt crisis
Trump will do the sum of **** all regarding china, and please don't mention tariffs as its the american population that pays the additional cost of them. Trump acts all big n' mighty in public but he is submissive when it comes to authoritarian regimes, see how putin has him on a short leash?, President Xi is also pulling on that leash.
Such a shame that biden distanced himself from the Green New Deal, which it’s no exaggeration to say, the fate of the world rests upon
I was surprised at this. Was the point he was trying to make (which he couldn't because of Trump shouting over him) that it's not just his plan? i.e. his party are a mix of views, who debate and direct policy, rather than the Trump approach? Anyway, it came across that he dropped the green deal like a hot potato.
They should have that as a question at the next debates. What's your environmental policy? Trump's seems to be plant a billion trees to offset his increase in fossil fuels 🙄
Trump will do the sum of **** all regarding china, and please don’t mention tariffs as its the american population that pays the additional cost of them. Trump acts all big n’ mighty in public but he is submissive when it comes to authoritarian regimes, see how putin has him on a short leash?, President Xi is also pulling on that leash.
The question is what does Biden's future plan for China? No point banging on about President Trump if he cannot provide the alternative(s).
Such a shame that biden distanced himself from the Green New Deal, which it’s no exaggeration to say, the fate of the world rests upon
He knows the Green New Deal is political suicide so prefer to keep it quiet perhaps?
He knows the Green New Deal is political suicide so prefer to keep it quiet perhaps?
After the sacred right to buy assault rifles and enough ammunition to start a coup, it seems like the next on the list of divine articles of faith is the right to drive a pickup truck with the same wheelbase as an artic, with a 12 litre V8 under the bonnet that does 3 miles a gallon.
And just as the next school massacre will have absolutely zero effect on their desire to own ALL the guns, no amount of wildfires in California will make them think that they individually shouldn't be entitled to have a carbon footprint the same size as a small country
They're all ****ing mental! Trump knows this, full well, and just reflects that crazines back at them
I don't care what the polls say, Trump is going to walk this election
chewkw
Free MemberWhat does Biden intend to do about China? Biden might be politically astute but I doubt he knows everything.
Oh god, I'm responding to the bot but, it's not a bad question. Basically, it's back to soft power rather than self-harming isolation and trade wars. Try and nudge china, and probably more importantly rebuild the western concensus instead of smashing it at every opportunity. China's been very clever about its outreach- the silk road project is a perfect example of how you bring neighbouring powers under your sway. Meanwhile the US has been absolutely selfdestructive.
Biden doesn't really need to "do" much but he needs to undo quite a lot. That's going to be his presidency all over though, he won't get to build that new downstairs toilet he wants, he'll be much too busy putting empties in the bin and fixing the holes in the plaster and phoning up the neighbours to apologise. And trying to work out where that lingering smell of piss is coming from.
he won’t get to build that new downstairs toilet he wants, he’ll be much too busy putting empties in the bin and fixing the holes in the plaster and phoning up the neighbours to apologise. And trying to work out where that lingering smell of piss is coming
Well put 👍🏻
Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311685923097260034
Basically, it’s back to soft power rather than self-harming isolation and trade wars.
Soft power? That's China's "bread and butter". They have been doing that since Mao? China can play that much better than anyone else.
Try and nudge china, ...
While the west does that China is happily gobbling whatever they can in the path. 😂 Look at their "investment" in SE Asia and how they befriended the politicians there.
China’s been very clever about its outreach- the silk road project is a perfect example of how you bring neighbouring powers under your sway.
Yes, they is a clever idea as they know their neighbours cannot compete with them and what better is to exploit whatever resources their neighbours have. Get the neighbours into debts and they can do as they wish. This project only benefits one country and that's China. Their 1.4 billion people have only one thing in their minds that is own prosperity. Forget about yin or yan etc as this is communist regime machinery.
Meanwhile the US has been absolutely selfdestructive.
They underestimated China's economy prowess. Yes, China may still be weak economically but once they got all the developing countries on their side it will be impossible to compete with them.
Biden doesn’t really need to “do” much but he needs to undo quite a lot.
If he does that then he will only quicken the demise of their own progress. By comparison China is still following their long term plans.
Looks like they are considering changing the rules on the next debates, considering giving the moderator control of the mike etc.
Bang on - when Trump learns how to do a debate, then he can have his own microphone.
Bang on – when Trump learns how to do a debate, then he can have his own microphone.
I rather see them as their true self rather than trying to "censor" their behaviours. This is not a school debate.
It wasnt a debate to be one or lost, as far as trump's concerned it was a debate to be destroyed. The head to head debates have become increasingly insignificant in the digital age and Trump, simply by being Trump hastened their demise.
Turning the debate into a meaningless s*** show is a result for Trump, the only real take away is that Biden is a frail old man. With Hilary and now this clown (yes, there were two clowns on the stage the other night), the Democrats are showing themselves to be a party stuck in the past. Any half decent candidate could have eviscerated Trump but like Clinton before him, Biden bought a knife to a gun fight.
I rather see them as their true self…
Agreed. But how will we see Biden’s true self if Trump just shuts down the debate by talking over him and the host?
Any half decent candidate could have eviscerated Trump…
How? Trump is just preventing debate… you can’t force him to engage.
Kelvin, as I said before its not about winning the debate its how you perform. Biden, like Hilary debated a person that wasn't there, they just played out the debate they rehearsed, they were robotic, showing no savvy or agility.
Let's face it, we were all watching the screen hoping Biden didn't have a heart attack, stroke, memory relapse or wet his pants. He's the architect of mass incarceration and the Hunter Biden affair looks like dodgy nepotism. His only strength is that he is not mad, (but perhaps going senile). Hilary had no qualities at all.
Wet his pants?!? The ‘toilet break’ disinformation was the least believable stuff out there.
inkster
Free Memberthe Hunter Biden affair looks like dodgy nepotism.
It doesn't really. It's important to remember the difference between a politician's kid doing something to take advantage of their parent's position, and their parent doing something to exploit their position on behalf of their son. There's not really much to see at all in the while Hunter Biden thing but even then, none of what there is, can be laid at Joe's door.
So it's both a massive stretch, and a miss even after the stretch. Meanwhile the actual president is neck deep in corruption and has filled his government with family members
Biden is a terrible choice for Democrat contender. Hilary was an equally terrible choice.
Biden will ultimately win by a very narrow margin. Trump will throw his toys out of the pram. While this all plays out there will be a lot of money made by being short on the dollar.
JP
Both of them are utterly dismal prospects, it's a shame they can't both loose.
Biden is a terrible choice for Democrat contender. Hilary was an equally terrible choice.
Staggering, isn’t it? They’ve had 4 years of Trump and that’s the best they can come up with.
Mind you... let’s not get too judgemental about that though, we’ve had 10 years of Tory rule and the last 2 elections were contested, and predictably lost, by Jeremy ****ing Corbyn
It seems to me that the opposition parties on both sides of the Atlantic have spent the last 4 years pointing fingers and saying ‘oh god! Aren’t they awful?!’ And thinking that’s what passes for opposition and what will get you elected.
It won’t
The American electorate are being offered the same choice we had in December...
Would you like your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?
It’s pitiful that, post-Obama, the democrats are going into a second election with such a totally uninspiring candidate
It won't be brown if Trump wins (the racist twunt)
@Binners totally agree. Chief topic amongst my zoom meeting tonight. My mates are a little more left off centre than me.
I agree that the democrats should have been able to find somebody better - but of all the nominees, he was/is the only one who can beat trump.
Sadly, the only person who can win-over centrist republicans is an old white guy, pushing a centrist agenda. Biden was/is the only one of them that could do this. Harris was a good pick for VP - she's clearly there to run for the next term.
With the GOP lurching to the right (well into far-right territory), one of two things needs to happen, the democrats need to occupy the centre-ground, or (if the democrats move to the left), a third party needs to emerge who huge swathes of people can actually vote for.
I don't actually think a third party is possible in the US? Dunno.
Anyway, in summary - I wish Biden was 10 years younger, but you've gotta piss with the cock you've got.
Edit: Top priority for Biden (if he wins) has got to be new laws to prevent election rigging. This is laying bare the brazenness of voter suppression etc - that's GOT to stop if American democracy is going to survive.
batfink
Full MemberWith the GOP lurching to the right (well into far-right territory), one of two things needs to happen, the democrats need to occupy the centre-ground, or (if the democrats move to the left), a third party needs to emerge who huge swathes of people can actually vote for.
TBH this is one of the biggest issues of modern politics. The right keeps shifting the overton window, and how people perceive their actions so as to move those themselves back into the window, controlling the message, and therefore not only doing stuff that they want to do but- this is the important bit- convincing people that they're closer to the centre, and that what they're doing is totally reasonable. Or at least, if what you're doing is batshit mental, convince people it's at least centre-right as opposed to far right.
Here, people said Miliband was "red ed" and Theresa May was a centrist ffs. Miliband's real issue was that he was a feather in the wind, always going where he was told to by focus groups and the media and the tory party, by his last election campaign he didn't even know what he wanted. Say what you like about Theresa May and David Cameron, they knew what they wanted.
Biden's career and record proves he's centre-right... The democrats have moved steadily right since Clinton, but so much of the conversation is about how the Democrats are supposedly lurching leftwards. The most left-wing thing Biden was involved in as vice president was the ACA and it was nicked wholesale from the Republican party! It was literally their "individual mandate", devised as a counterposition to undermine the Clinton administration's moves towards real universal healthcare, and championed by Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney.
And then the democrats gave up on their own dreams and beliefs, and pushed forward with the Republican version because they thought that was what they had to do in order to get any progress at all... And the Republicans declared their own stolen policy to be evil, and set about destroying it and demonising the Democrats for being far left lunatics for implementing it. Who's learned the lesson from that? A lot of Democrats still consider it their biggest success of the last decade.
It's always the left that are to move rightwards, while the right fundamentally gets that when you do that, you lose before the election's even happened because the things you want can't possibly win if you choose not to run on them. The way to really win, is to convince people that where you already are is the centre, that your extremism is moderate and that the other guy's moderate positions are extreme. And the right are bloody good at that, while the left in most places are absolutely useless at it.
For example, nowhere in the world is there a left wing equivalent of Fox News, and there are very few left wing Daily Mails. But that's baby stuff. The real trick is to falsely reposition everything that isn't a mouthpiece for your views. Genuinely fairly centrist organisations like CNN can be denounced as Fake News and leftists, for committing the terrible bias of just saying facts. It's a double win.
And fundamentally, right wing parties and ideologies in democracies are almost always better at lying and cheating, because they have to be, because their entire existence depends on getting people to vote against their interests for parties and policies that will actively harm them. It's not that right wing people are naturally dishonest, it's a nurture thing- a leopard that doesn't learn not to tell people it's going to eat their faces, starves. Left wingers don't learn that lesson in the cradle. They can sometimes get good at it through hard work but it almost never comes naturally.
Whereas left wing people who believe they want the right thing for most people, are more naturally inclined to believe that people will vote for them on the strength of their actual policies and beliefs, and therefore more naturally inclined to try and win the fight fairly and on the strength of the argument... and therefore more likely to lose. Telling people "that over there is a leopard, look , it's eating that person's face and it wants to eat yours next" should be persuasive enough, and it's kind of hard to get past that even once you've been doing it for years and people still keep being surprised when their faces get et.
This stuff is all deeply obvious. It's unintuitive, which is a problem. And it's unpleasant, which is a bigger problem, because the exact same things that make left wing politicians less likely to win, also make them less able to learn from the mistakes. Even people like me that get it, don't generally understand it in their bones.
^ yeah I think I would agree with most of that.
Frankly - I have no idea how the US are going to deal with this - they seem to be on an unstoppable slide into the abyss: Christian conservative interest groups dictating what's put into textbooks, local politicians gerrymandering elections in order to keep themselves in power etc etc. Unfortunately it's too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube - the playbook on how to subvert American (and British) democracy has been written.
One thing that's clear is that in a two party system, you can't have one of those parties actively working to corrupt and collapse the mechanics of that system, because they will always succeed. For the current model to work, the GOP have to get their house in order. I have no idea how that will happen. The GOP leadership (and by now probably most of the party members) are so morally bankrupt, that I just can't see from where that change is going to come from.
Edit: Just seen the news. Please, please, please, please let him have it. If only because that'd mean he can't subject anyone to another "debate" performance. Also, in all seriousness, the guy is not in good shape: this could end well for the whole country (-1)
