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Well, that’s Gulf War 3 started.
This isn't his doing. I'm sure he likes to get his gun off, but the reality surely is much military and political involvement in picking this fight up...?
I wonder if they are going to start on the little fat kid in North Korea next.
I wonder if they are going to start on the little fat kid in North Korea next.
I thought this was the distraction from the complete cock up in handling North Korea.
If Dumbojo wants to unite the country he has got to stay a million miles away f<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">this.</span>
Of course we will invade Iran for a trade deal.
observed rather than experienced
Do you have any faith in Boris not doing a Tony?
Without passing comment on the wisdom of such a strike, it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around. I thought the idea of proxy wars is you use the bare minimum of physical resources, not send your most senior officials?
it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around.
It's probably misleading to view Iraq as an independent self-contained state now. It is pretty much a vacuum. We hollowed it out with hundreds of thousands of troops, dismantled its military and government, then gave up and more or less pulled out, and left it for the other players in the region to tussle over. That's how ISIS rolled over huge swathes of the country. It's a mess.
History should tell the US that when it is having trouble guaranteeing the safety of its own embassy, then it has already without friends or influence in that place. Assassinating this top official is a desperate move which will not deter the Iranians. If anything it betrays the weakness of the Americans and will encourage the Iranians to continue.
Whilst I'm sure the Iranians are dangerous players in the region, this seems very ill-advised, to put it mildly. The only retaliation option the Iranians have would be offensive, it's just a question of how and where.
Has deflected any attention from North Korea's announcement yesterday that they will restart nuclear and missile testing.
The whole world is being run by dangerous idiots. I'm not sure the old Cold War deterrent of mutual destruction applies any more with all these small minor nut jobs.
Interesting piece on the BBC news site this morning discussing the implications of the world switching from oil to renewables in the next couple of decades. This could just be the appetiser!
Do you have any faith in Boris not doing a Tony?
Even with his Churchill fetish bozo isn't that daft
Really hope not as my brother in law's ship just started a 7 month tour of the gulf
The F-14s taking off will be a great advert for Top Gun 2
Whilst I’m sure the Iranians are dangerous players in the region, this seems very ill-advised, to put it mildly. The only retaliation option the Iranians have would be offensive, it’s just a question of how and where
They're already conducting offensive operations though, and increasingly overtly. Whilst I can't see the US assassinating a senior Iranian general is going to stop that or diffuse tensions (quite the opposite) I don't think it's suddenly going to spark a major conflict or have Iran firing rockets at Israel etc. The Iranians know they'll get a kicking from the US without military support from Russia/China and I can't see that happening in the same way NATO didn't intervene militarily when the Crimea was annexed.
They’re already conducting offensive operations though, and increasingly overtly.
The US have been backing them against a wall since Trump took over, he has always had a hard on for another middle east war, and has been doing everything possible to provoke Iran into doing something they can sell as a reason for war.
The US see's itself as the world policeman, and seems to base that role on a caricature of a racist bullying bigot of a policeman always happy to abuse the power it has.
The F-14s taking off will be a great advert for Top Gun 2
Only the Iranians still have the F14 in service.
Starting WW3 seems a bit of an excessive way for Trump to distract attention from the new impeachment revelations 🙁
Given that Tories want Brexit based on opening the doors to a trade relationship with the US, Bozo will go into a war with the US to cement this deal, if it turns into full scale hostilities in Iraq. It will be a stupid decision because we will be stuck cleaning up the mess afterward, and we'll still get a poor trade deal regardless of any good favour because the UK is smaller than the US and we are poor at trade deals but Johnson doesn't think strategically or critically.
FWIW the Iranian general was an awful person but I'm not celebrating, it's a bad choice in a bad situation.
EDIT Kimbers I hope I'm wrong and you're right, I hope you're brother in law comes home safe.
Without passing comment on the wisdom of such a strike, it seems pretty brazen of Iran to have a figure like that flying into Baghdad and driving around. I thought the idea of proxy wars is you use the bare minimum of physical resources, not send your most senior officials?
Iran and US have had a de facto truce for some time, on the basis that they've both been fighting IS.
he has always had a hard on for another middle east war, and has been doing everything possible to provoke Iran into doing something they can sell as a reason for war.
Not sure that's true either, at least not his public position. He been very much for pulling US troops out of the ME, including his cluster-**** in northern Syria recently. Obviously he also realises playing the strongman panders well to his core supporters so I can certainly see him launching cruise missiles and drone strikes into Iran but not a full on war. I'd also be surprised if he initiated much of a manned air campaign in Iran - they have (or claim to have anyway) a pretty modern and sophisticated air defence capability (but I think it's largely untested, unless the Israeli's have probed it). Captured US pilots isn't something he wants on his watch.
#TRUMP2020
The US see’s itself as the world policeman
You know how right wing govts on a shoogly peg at home traditionally like to have a foreign war to stiffen up patriotic resolve.
Wonder how good a trade deal we'll get if we send our lads in?
And how long before there's talk of conscription to suck up all those unemployed?
When Trump calls, let's hope Boris has as much backbone as Harold Wilson had.
Should we be worried that Iran has been having joint naval exercises with China and Russia very recently? It may have some very big friends too.
Not sure China and Russia would directly involve themselves in a direct conflict but they will give tech support and the Russian S-400 air defence missile system is not to be sneezed at. I'm sure the Russians would love to gather more radar intel on the F-35 and B2 aircraft.
In some respects the Iranians have been sniping at the Americans for a long time (since before Trump increased sanctions over the nuclear deal). I wonder if Trump was still smarting from the loss of the expensive drone last year and this Terrorist General arriving in Iraq to plot the deaths of more Americans was too good an opportunity to resist. Will giving Iran a bloody nose stop them? possibly, it may give them pause and make them realise that they have pushed the Americans (and especially their President) one too many times and that the gloves are off now.
Will it end well, NO.
I can see if there is any escalation from the Iranian side a joint Israeli and US missile and drone strike on the Iranian air defences followed by air strikes on the nuclear facilities using bunker destroyers for the under the mountain sites in conjunction with a massive cyber attack on them.
it may give them pause and make them realise that they have pushed the Americans (and especially their President) one too many times and that the gloves are off now.
I really dont see how it will give them any kind of pause
they literally have to respond in some kind of fashion now, the head of their army has just been assassinated, Iran has been biging itself up as a strongman for domestic audiences & this pushes their narrative that America & the west are out to get them, it will be destabilising for the Iranians immediately but they will have to respond in earnest, Trump must know all this so I do wonder if it is a deliberate provocation
meanwhile Korea were threateninga new round of nuclear missile tests any day
kimbers
...they literally have to respond in some kind of fashion now, the head of their army has just been assassinated..
Aye, it's one thing to do in Osama Bin Laden, but it's another to publicly assassinate the leader of a nation state's defence.
It certainly has raised the stakes.
The obvious response is to return the favour on the most senior USA military commander that can they can access.
All the little tinpot populists get to a point where they can't resist a little war to distract from the realities of life on the domestic front. In trying to erase Obama's legacies, Trump can't resist the temptation to go one better - even John Bolton must be spitting out his cornflakes at the sight of his former boss taking the hardest line possible with Iran.
It'll be a test for Johnson given that the response from the EU is likely to be measured and sane. Johnson will know that Blair and Fatcha both won elections after committing Britain to regional conflicts that could have been avoided.
It’ll be
a testan opportunity for Johnson
FTFY
the iranians will hit saudi/region oil again. (good for russia)
I wouldn't want to work in a M.E. US embassy at the moment....
I foresee more deaths ahead ... on both sides.
I suggest if you have no business in the middle east don't go there coz you will be the target.
I just feel sorry for all those involved in the proxy wars.
Rump, putine, etc. Calling the shots from thier safe havens.
dragging all sorts in interesting genie to uncork... we only need the Germans unleashed now :/
You can't beat a little government sponsored assassination in the name of peace to distract from the upcoming impeachment trial in the senate.
Clinton did the same thing
I would disagree, the democrats are yet to push the process forward. Imho they messed up the impeachment, the process was sloppy and rushed, considering the republican dominated senate.
The process now goes to the senate where it will probably be rejected.
If this is a move in order to secure reelection, it is probably more to do with improving his image as the commander in chief and satisfying the military complex.
Timing and ethics aside, the Terrorist General was a fantastic planner and good leader, responsible for organising/sponsoring/motivating many terrorist groups in the region causing a great many deaths of US and Ally soldiers across the area. His removal with what appears to be the ninja/bladed hellfire may well set back Iranian plans, will his replacement be as good? I doubt it. Though he has probably left plans for what to do should he suffer "an accident".
Much as I detest Trump, he will get re-elected, to the American people (rightly or wrongly) he has improved the economy, got more African Americans in employment, taken the trade fight to China and put America first.
the iranians will hit saudi/region oil again
Yeah, mining the Strait of Hormuz seems the most likely short-term action they'll take. I doubt they'd risk another missile attack on Saudi refineries, I would have thought there was more satellite & drone monitoring of Iran now (although maybe it's not technically possible yet to detect & track short range missile launches over a wide area).
Imho they messed up the impeachment, the process was sloppy and rushed, considering the republican dominated senate
It's always going to be a Republican controlled Senate (until the 2020 election at least) so they started impeachment proceedings as soon as they had something they were confident would stick (general incompetence wouldn't have been enough) so it at least got as far as the Senate. Whether impeaching at all was the right move (knowing it would always get defeated in the Senate) is hard to say but I can also see if they didn't impeach and still lost the 2020 election that the Democrats would have got a lot of flak.
His removal with what appears to be the ninja/bladed hellfire may well set back Iranian plans, will his replacement be as good? I doubt it. Though he has probably left plans for what to do should he suffer “an accident”.
This belief that 1 man is behind all of the USAs problems with Iran seems naive, just because Iranian propaganda sold him as the master strategist.
Iranian army is huge and they have experienced generals who have been fighting insurgency for the last 30+ years for
The militias & proxies will be more determined than ever. At best this is a short term set back, but an increase in violence seems the only outcome
Any chance of bringing Iran back to the negotiating table has gone now
That Trump has also threatened to blow up Iranian cultural & religious sites shows how foolish he is being right now.
The scale of the crowds in mourning alone ought to be enough to make him stop & think
The scale of the crowds in mourning alone ought to be enough to make him stop & think
Sadly they won't - he'll just be congratulating himself that he got more people attending his inauguration address than that brown dude got at his funeral.
Didn't Clinton bomb a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan when he was being impeached? Same shit, different President.
I can't believe this thread isn't at the top, what is wrong with us? I'm fairly certain there are a few bots on here as well. LOOK. A BUNNY. OVER THERE, A BUNNY! Works with the kids, works with the rest of the world it seems. God help us.
Trump to White House Reporters.
“They’re allowed to kill our people. They’re allowed to torture and maim our people. They’re allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people,” President Trump said Sunday aboard Air Force One. “And we’re not allowed to touch their cultural site? It doesn’t work that way.”
Surely there are people in Trumps inner circle that can't let him go through with this. Targeting sites of cultural significance which may be heavily populated by civilians. He refers to Irans supply of weapons to Iraqi forces fighting against the US troops in Iraq. We know US supplied weapons are often put to dubious use. Does dirty tactics in the theatre of war really require Trump to threaten this?
The really scary thing about all this is that I bet the red-neck shit-kickers who elected him are absolutely lapping this up. Killing 'bad guys' with missiles? Brilliant! Whats not to like?
While the less unhinged like us, with our snowflake whining/liberal sensibilities*, look on Trump in horror, all this is is just ensuring his second term as he plays to his gun-toting, racist base. I think he's going to walk it.
* delete as appropriate
How to make friends and influence people.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51003159
It really is about time european leaders started publicly denouncing the idiot, US bully boy tactics are destabilising the world and endangering us all.
good article here about the 'Dr Evil fantasy'
https://www.ft.com/content/741a21cc-3062-11ea-a329-0bcf87a328f2