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Wonder if he’ll defend the shooters right to have a gun
It is, of course, the official position of the Republican Party, that the people should have the right to bear arms. The fact that the actual position is that a lawful militia should have the right to bear arms, not a lawless rabble conveniently passes them by…
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Any rational person would think this to be perfectly reasonable for protecting one’s family and their rights…
Trump just won the election.
This is the moment Trump won the election...
Barring something absolutely <incredible>, anyway.
This is the picture Americans and history will remember.
If we let ourselves assume it was someone opposed to Trump regaining office that attempted the assassination, their actions have almost definitely caused the opposite to occur.
Yep, this is going to go down as one of those "top 10 moments that defined the 21st Century" or similar isn't it?
crazy-legs
Full Member
Yep, this is going to go down as one of those “top 10 moments that defined the 21st Century” or similar isn’t it?
Definitely. I can almost see a timeline stretching forward into the future from today.
Ukraine is basically buggered now which deepens me sadly and is likely to lead to further conflicts in Europe in the decades to come.
I should qualify things here, I have no wish to see the dick head assassinated but the attempt itself has now almost certainly unleashed another trump presidency onto the world. Right at a time it really, really didn't need it.
In that instant after the shots, when he knew he likely wasn't badly hurt, you could see he almost knew instinctively that this would be the election winner for him.
Let's face it, there is likely to be more blood shed after this. Directly as a result of the attempt and globally given time.
The world just got a little bit more dangerous.
Appears to be footage of counter sniper team returning fire. Several shot within 2 seconds of Trump's hand going to his ear.
Europe and Ukraine are in big trouble. Trump, Congress and Supreme Court will almost certainly now be totally MAGA aligned come November. USA, China and Russia will all likely be Fascist/Authoritarian states within a year. US has a strong isolationist bent which Trump expresses, and a hatred of Zelensky, admiration for Putin. We have already been warned he has little use for NATO. I can see the US leaving and allowing other superpowers their own ‘zone of influence’.
It may be that Europe will see no option but to put boots on the ground in Ukraine. Hard to see Poland and the Baltics simply hoping for the best. This might need to happen before November/January.
Grim!
I think the Secret Service have got some major questions to answer
How could the witness on the BBC see the rifle and gunman, be shouting about it to police, yet no reaction to move Trump off stage?
If, after the shooting, they can identify the gunman quickly enough to shoot him within seconds he must have been very visable so how was he not seen prior to shooting Trump?
Secret Service seem very preoccupied with suits and shades but have come up short here
You got to credit the guy. All the campaign money in the world couldn't buy an image as good as the one of him bloodied, defiant fist held high with American flag flying proud above him
FBI identifies 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks of Pennsylvania as the subject involved in the assassination attempt of former President Trump.
NBC News
Lots of comments saying he was a registered Republican, however that twists things if true
Reddit suggesting that the person identified as a gunman was a registered Republican. Although Reddit also suggested that a completely innocent person was responsible for the Boston Bombings, so...
How could the witness on the BBC see the rifle and gunman, be shouting about it to police, yet no reaction to move Trump off stage?
People say all sorts of stuff immediately after a violent event that turns out to be not quite accurate...
Wonder if he’ll defend the shooters right to have a gun
This will be used to go after the Democrats, not gun owners. In the paranoid world of US right wing politics this will be the 'globalists' going after their man, and the fact that's he's a registered Republican will be a false flag.
What bunker for next 5 years?
I am due to be in the states on November 5th, should I stay or should I Go now!
First time in my life I’ve wanted a couple more inches…to the right
What bunker for next 5 years?
Optimistic view, only needing a bunker for 5 years...
Bugger, missed.
That's Trump in office and Ukraine gone.
Biden could try to salvage something by rushing to meet Trump to show sympathy/solidarity. But he'd probably get lost on the way and then refer to Trump as 'President John F Nixon'.
FFS.
Would be assassin probably spent months shooting pumpkins in his yard but they don't move much.
Putin will have his mate and Ukraine I fear.
In that instant after the shots, when he knew he likely wasn’t badly hurt, you could see he almost knew instinctively that this would be the election winner for him.
you see his instinct to claim and express victory and defiance in every situation
you also see his instinctive lack of compassion and concern for the dead and injured around him
I really don’t agree with all the comments alluding to wishing it had succeeded. This isn’t right. People should feel free to speak out.
Trump is nasty, incompetent, divisive and selfish and whilst I wouldn't wish him dead the world would be better off if he didn't run for high office.
Many thousands more will die if Ukraine falls.
Ah the ones wanting another human dead, what lovely people you are.
If he'd been killed things could have gone a lot worse. As said before the best we can hope for is an Elvis style exit and even then the conspiracy nut jobs would have a field day.
I really don’t agree with all the comments alluding to wishing it had succeeded. This isn’t right. People should feel free to speak out.
Usually I would agree. But Trump is a narcasist, a disgusting human and a danger to world security. So, I'm happy to say it. I would be fine with him being shot dead.
Usually I would agree. But Trump is a narcasist, a disgusting human and a danger to world security. So, I’m happy to say it. I would be fine with him being shot dead.
Yep. One dead rather than the likely death of many, many more is a price I’d willingly accept.
Indeed @Daffy. No one, but no one, should come to harm for what they believe and doing thier job.
Ah the ones wanting another human dead, what lovely people you are.
So you wouldn't have cheered for Von Stauffenberg, then?
Biden has come out to condemn this attempt on the life of President Putin.
Imagine if Republicans got this upset every time there was a school shooting!
Mod: Can we please not wish someone was killed. Thanks.
Even if the gunman is verified as a registered Republican, it's not unknown for anti-trumpers on the left to register as Republicans in order to vote in primary elections for his opponents.
Hopefully the FBI will find unequivocal evidence of motive once they've looked through his stuff. If he does turn out to be from the even more extreme right, that opens a whole new can of worms. At least Biden's Democrat opponents are politely asking him to step down.
Secret Service have massively dropped the ball on this one, though. How the hell does a sniper get on a roof directly facing the stage and get that many bullets off?
should I stay or should I Go now!
Pretty clear cut, TBH. If you stay there will be trouble, but if you leave it will be double.
Just disappointed the shooter missed.
I know wishing someone dead isn't the done thing, but reality is, there are plenty of powerful people the world would be better off without.
why weren’t the people behind trump hit?
No one, but no one, should come to harm for what they believe and doing thier job.
Whilst treading an obvious but controversial line...
Wasn't this a defence that was being used a lot around certain trials in 1946?
But anyway, is it OK to say I would much rather Trump didn't exist?
Pretty clear cut, TBH. If you stay there will be trouble, but if you leave it will be double.
Might be a much smaller pool of people willing to replace Biden now too. Even if a miracle occurs and they win, it won't be a comfortable existence.
Assassination is no answer, there's always willing replacements. Elections would just become shootouts.
why weren’t the people behind trump hit?
They were, one dead two critical
After a brief look at twitter I'm not sure finding out the real reasons for the shooting will matter, the conspiracy theories have taken over.
Assassination is no answer, there’s always willing replacements.
Interesting suggestion, personally I think that Donald Trump is fairly unique and it would be a huge struggle for right-wing Republicans to find a replacement. And it contrasts strongly with the widely held attitude that there is no obvious and easy replacement for Joe Biden.
I agree that assassination isn't the answer though, but only because it doesn't tackle the causes which created the conditions for a Trump presidency.
After a brief look at twitter I’m not sure finding out the real reasons for the shooting will matter, the conspiracy theories have taken over.
And Trump's constant efforts to discredit the FBI will undercut any 'official' line anyway, I suppose.
Just to point out, I don’t wish him dead. Just a long, torturous fall from (dis)grace.
If he hadn’t turned his head towards the shooter before he was shot then the outcome would’ve been a lot different.
Fake blood capsule smacked against your head, couple of crisis actors on stage behind you. Wake up, sheeple!
How does someone get such a vantage point. Some serious security shortfalls. Shame this act will boost Trumps campaign.
Who knows, maybe his brush with death will make him realise how divisive his violent rhetoric is and he'll declare how sorry he is and become an advocate of peace, love and harmony?
Or maybe he'll now think he's invincible and immortal as well as infallible, sexy and awesome at golf
Yeah right
So you wouldn’t have cheered for Von Stauffenberg, then?
Don’t be obtuse.
Now Musk has donated a "substantial sum" to Trump's campaign..... ?
I wonder if he vonshitzinpants ?
I fear this means the next two POTUS will be called Trump. Europe needs to wake up to that possibility.
No one, but no one, should come to harm for what they believe and doing thier job.
He believes in ****ing poor people out of what little they have so the rich can horde wealth. He believes in restricting medical services to the poor, and in doing so kills more people a year than war. He creates hatred and division and then directs it against vulnerable communities. His policies create poverty, suffering and death in massive numbers. So **** him, I hope he suffers the same fate he is so willing to inflict on so many millions of American citizens, let him reap what he has sown
I'm conflicted on this.
Do I wish someone dead, no
Would I have been remotely upset if he'd died. Truthfully, not in the slightest. I would probably have thought it was a good thing in greater scheme of things
Struggling to see how you miss that big orange buffoons head tbh. Although I imagine the clean up operation would have had to be fairly Intense given the amount of bullshit that would have covered the stage should he'd scored a direct hit
Feels like Alex Garland's ' Civil War' has crept a little closer to reality .
why weren’t the people behind trump hit?
Too far away. Trump was speaking in Pennsylvania. The Kochs live in Kansas, Murdoch lives in NYC, and Putin was probably in Kizhi.
Drac Full Member
Mod: Can we please not wish someone was killed. Thanks.
Posted 1 hour ago
Agreed. There has been a spate of posters ironically or seriously calling for death or serious harm to their political opponents. Even if it's empty words - it's a bad vibe.
He believes in **** poor people out of what little they have so the rich can horde wealth. He believes in restricting medical services to the poor, and in doing so kills more people a year than war. He creates hatred and division and then directs it against vulnerable communities. His policies create poverty, suffering and death in massive numbers.
but enough about Biden, what about Trump getting shot?
Mod: Can we please not wish someone was killed. Thanks.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment in principle , it's an undeniable fact that tens and tens of millions of people the world over will be conflicted this morning, whether they articulate it or not. That's not in a personally vindictively motivated sense, but in (their judgement) a best for world order sense. To think otherwise is to be very naive. But I get the fact that STW might not want people expressing that on their pages - their football etc etc.
What is also pretty undeniable, if you value a sane and stable world, is the worst possible thing that could have happened yesterday was an unsuccessful assassination attempt on Trump. We are royally bolloxed now.
Mod: Can we please not wish someone was killed. Thanks.
And to stress test that for a moment - would the same request stand if it was Putin we were talking about - or is there a value judgement being used here too?
So you wouldn’t have cheered for Von Stauffenberg, then?
Don’t be obtuse.
I'm not. If anything it's a straw man. 😉
And to stress test that for a moment – would the same request stand if it was Putin we were talking about – or is there a value judgement being used here too?
Hence my, admittedly a bit naughty, Von Stauffenberg comment. Nothing, repeat nothing, is completely binary in the real world.
Trump is the symptom, not the disease. But where does accepting the disease get you? If the disease is that people are basically arseholes what do you do?
Cajole? Educate? Confront?
I fear the world is a darker place this morning.
Political violence is not the answer, shining a light on what a poor candidate Trump is should be the way, but with the dems infighting and with the delivery of Bidens messaging being the focus as opposed to the content, the world is all but guaranteed a Trump second term.
And to stress test that for a moment – would the same request stand if it was Putin we were talking about – or is there a value judgement being used here too?
The murder of Putin would not result in a more peaceful, democratic Russia. There are no institutions and no succession plan. Whoever seizes power would likely be more erratic than Putin. There might be short term gains for Ukraine (if it could seize the advantage while the military is in disarraey) but it's not a problem solver.
I see the usual hand-wrining response from the liberal centre ground is kicking in. Can't have anything bad happening to fascists can we? I would say that I don't wish anyone dead but in a tiny few cases it's just not true. The simple fact is that had that young man been successful, the world would be a safer and more sane place today and we would all be thanking him, but the fact that he was unsuccessful has unfortunately made it much more dangerous. It would probably have been better if he had done nothing at all, but we are where we are and the lesson here is fairly obvious.
The murder of Putin would not result in a more peaceful, democratic Russia.
Yes using the Von Stauffenberg example. The allies decided against trying to assassinate Hitler in part due to their concerns he would be replaced by someone more competent/less likely to interfere with the military operations.
Convert it’s a simple request.
would the same request stand if it was Putin we were talking about – or is there a value judgement being used here too?
The U.S. is a democracy and leaders can be peacefully removed from power. Russia is not a functioning democracy and Putin is a murderous tyrant who has invaded a neighbouring country. Same goes for von Staffenberg's attempt at killing Hitler. I utterly loathe Trump but the way to get rid of him is to vote against him.
The simple fact is that had that young man been successful, the world would be a safer and more sane place today
Just like the assassinations of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, Gadaffi, Habyarimana, Trujillo, Park...?
It's not a "simple fact" at all. Trump's backers and support base still exist, and there's no shortage of equally angry replacements. MTG probably had some intensive thoughts when she heard the news!
The simple fact is that had that young man been successful, the world would be a safer and more sane place today and we would all be thanking him, but the fact that he was unsuccessful has unfortunately made it much more dangerous
That is a hell of a bold claim!!! So if the assassination attempt had been successful, Trump supporters would've just accepted it and now violence would've ensuied? I don't buy that at all. Would I have shed a tear if Trump had have died.... definitely not. Would I have been worried about what happened in the aftermath both in the US and globally...100%.
As someone above said, these things aren't even remotely binary. You believe that Trump is a facist and a threat to the world, I believe that too. The big problem, is that there are a lot of people who for instance believe that Biden is a deranged lefty and a threat to America.
The simple fact is that had that young man been successful, the world would be a safer and more sane place today
I suspect the opposite is true
Convert it’s a simple request
Oh, I acknowledge that and plan on abiding by it. I'm just also acknowledging that for millions and millions of people, and I suspect the majority of readers and contributors (including I suspect you) to these pages there will be conflicting emotions this morning. It's a simple (and justifiable) request about a complex issue. Just because it must not be expressed does not make the emotional conundrum disappear.
The U.S. is a democracy and leaders can be peacefully removed from power. Russia is not a functioning democracy and Putin is a murderous tyrant who has invaded a neighbouring country. Same goes for von Staffenberg’s attempt at killing Hitler. I utterly loathe Trump but the way to get rid of him is to vote against him.
So we are agreed then - a value judgment. One I agree with I hasten to add, but a value judgment never the less.
I was just hopeing that his life style and age would deal with him and that he might have time to regret his actions and abhorrent beliefs.
If you assassinate him he just ends up a martyr for his deluded followers.
The MAGA movement is all about Trump, it’s a classic cult of personality. Take him away it would almost certainly fall apart. Now it is strengthened though so god knows what will happen. I wouldn’t even be surprised if someone has another go.
@politecameraaction There’s a reasonable theory that states that Europe would have been a more stable place if Franz Ferdinand had lived to become emperor; certainly Austria-Hungary would have moved more towards federalism.
No conflicting emotions here. I’m just sad that innocent people lost their lives and the shooter missed his intended target. Some people are just poisonous and Trump is one of them. He incited an attempted insurrection. Undermines Democracy and has spent his entire life being an utter stain on humanity. By not killing him, I fear the assassin has handed him the election.
Feel free to fling me (another) warning or ban for this mods. I really wish the ****er would die and I’m not the least bit concerned over how that occurs. I reserve my empathy for those deserving of it and not those without any of their own.
Luckily we're getting Nigel Farage's take on the situation on Laura Kuensberg's show this morning.
FFS.
I utterly loathe Trump but the way to get rid of him is to vote against him.
How does that work when the voters have their heads stuffed with nonsense courtesy of Putin and Zuckerberg ??
“After failing to stop Trump being elected through the courts, the only way to save democracy is to kill him”
TDS in full effect…
The MAGA movement is all about Trump, it’s a classic cult of personality. Take him away it would almost certainly fall apart.
The cults of personality around Stalin, Mao, Kim, Khomeini, and Ataturk all persisted after the death of the person involved because none of the underlying conditions or structures changed. A cult of personality necessarily means elevating the figure of worship above the reality of the person - and once the super-human idol has been created, it doesn't matter too much what the person does or even if they survived.
You might have noticed that Trump isn't much of an organiser or operator - he's a remarkable person but he's a fetish and a proxy. He's not a Tito-like figure who is the glue sticking all these dissonant pieces together in a way no-one else can.
When will the fools learn that true democracy comes at the end a barrel of a gun.
In the end the way to win is by being better than your opponents, not worse. In that respect, here's Trump commenting on the Pelosi assassination attempt. We must not fall to these levels.
https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1812328254499647796