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In the end the way to win is by being better than your opponents, not worse.
I need cheering up - looking around the world can you point to some examples of this “winning”” ?
"Ah the ones wanting another human dead, what lovely people you are."
That will not age well. Time to reread Rogue Male.
There are over four billion of us. Chances are there are some within that number that the rest of us would be better off without. The virtue signalling and fake handwringing is much worse than the honesty being displayed when it comes to opinions on Trump.
Ahhh ****! This has probably handed Trump the election, the visuals of him stood bloodied with a fist in the air feeds just the sort of 'strong leader' narrative he wants.
Chuck and Buck will be tooling up, donning full Gravy Seal garb and piling into the pick-up as we speak to go find anyone with blue hair to receive their "Antifa reprisals"...
The conspiracies are kicking off already (both ways)... This is not good for US democracy in anyway.
I need cheering up – looking around the world can you point to some examples of this “winning”” ?
Early days, but the UK seems to have chosen a better direction on July 4th!
The virtue signalling and fake handwringing is much worse than the honesty being displayed when it comes to opinions on Trump.
Ah yes, the ole switcheroo of 'apathy' being the greater crime. Classic interweb binary arguement. It's a nonsense.
There are over four billion of us. Chances are there are some within that number that the rest of us would be better off without. The virtue signalling and fake handwringing is much worse than the honesty being displayed when it comes to opinions on Trump.
Assassination isn’t top of my list for him. Prison, which was never going to happen and a fast drop in to obscurity would’ve been preferred. Perhaps if he lobbied for tighter control on guns as a result of this I may be able to scrape up a really tiny amount of begrudging respect for him. Odds are he’ll blame “Woke” people or the terrorists of the anti facist movement. It’ll just help him breed more violence and unrest.
Not apathy at all, I’m just being honest and 100% believe most of the people stating it’s terrible to wish ill on someone wouldn’t actually give a shit if he died.
The virtue signalling and fake handwringing is much worse than the honesty being displayed when it comes to opinions on Trump.
The cheap iconoclasm of Internet tough guys who are unlikely to bear the brunt of reprisals after assassinations of Trump or Putin or others is also a form of virtue signalling.
100% believe most of the people stating it’s terrible to wish ill on someone wouldn’t actually give a shit if he died
There's a difference between that and actively wanting someone murdered.
Not apathy at all, I’m just being honest and 100% believe most of the people stating it’s terrible to wish ill on someone wouldn’t actually give a shit if he died.
I don't think 'not wishing that a presidential candidate to be murdered' and 'giving a shit if he actually died' are mutually exclusive. They certainly aren't for me anyway! I'd probably cast it a foolish rather than terrible to wish I'll on someone, but we're into semantics at that point I guess.
Early days, but the UK seems to have chosen a better direction on July 4th!
Get back to me in a couple of years.
I will admit I was quite excited this morning when I played today's edition of The Economist's The World In Brief and read the tag line "Trump shot at rally".
Won't lie that I was disappointed that he survived.
It would probably have been better if he had done nothing at all, but we are where we are and the lesson here is fairly obvious.
What lesson is that? Don't miss?
I don’t actively want him murdered but would t care in the slightest if he were to be. The internet tough guy thing is a piss poor comeback and is getting old. Nothing tough guy about my comments at all. Just honestly stating my opinion. I’d wish ill on Trump every day if I thought it might amount to anything.
There’s a difference between that and actively wanting someone murdered.
+1. And that difference is what gives rise to the kind of stochastic terrorism we have seen rise at Trump's direction. But it also happens here: David Copeland, Khalid "Adrian Elms" Massood, Darren Osbourne...
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/donald-trump-stochastic-terrori-milley-violence-muskst/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c19dp7wmy18o
why weren’t the people behind trump hit?
I'm seriously hoping the blonde over his right shoulder wasn't the one that took the hit, she dropped pretty quick. Don't wanna see that.
This photo will still be published regularly in 100 years. Up there with the Che Guevara image, VJ Day sailor, etc.
Quoted from the twitter link, wasn't what jumped immediately to mind. More thinking along the lines of burning of the Reichstag.
President Biden recently told donors he wanted to "put Trump in a bullseye."
uh huh
Super, smashing, great, lovely
Here's your BFH
Have you seen the twitter of Trump about Pelosi, grimey? What do you say at that?
Biden was nothing more than clumsy language, not much more than saying we're making someone a target.
No magic bullet this time.
Yet again, a republican voting middle class assassin, with legally owned firearms, and probably a fully paid up lifetime member of the NRA.
Aged only 20. What is it about that country that make people so young think they need to take such radical steps.
Have you seen the twitter of Trump about Pelosi, grimey?
I see that clip of Trump and take it as an example of why this man makes so many people struggle with their normal attitude to right and wrong. You could look at that clip and say "we must never stoop to his level to defeat him" or you could see it and say "this man is so horrific that my moral threshold can make an exception".
And just to scenario out what the world would look like this morning if the assassin had been more competent - short term the turmoil and instability would have been sizable. I suspect a state of emergency would have had to be called. Medium and long term - I'm in the camp that the MAGA phenomenon is quite cult like and is very reliant on Trump as the main act. When he is dead - by natural means or otherwise, it will fracture and marginalise. Medium and long term, the world is a lot more dangerous place after a failed assassination than it would have been if it had not happened or if it had been successful.
If dump had even a modicum of statesmanship or decency in him, he would use this to draw a line under the vile polarization that is only going to lead to more deaths. But he wont, he and his band of idiots will use this as a war cry.
What is it about that country that make people so young think they need to take such radical steps.
The industrial scale 'othering' that both sides go full ham with, aided and abetted by their ideologically aligned media outlets and mouthpieces.
The same thing we seem so keen to emulate here.
The simple fact is that had that young man been successful, the world would be a safer and more sane place today and we would all be thanking him,
dazh - you can’t possibly be that stupid? If he’d been successful and the Dems had then won the election, it would just confirm to the whole of the US, the whole of the world, that it’s alright to kill people you disagree with. Because, well, ends and means, yeah? As long as you’ve got a good reason, it’s alright. ?
I think it would be safsr if he had been shot. The Republican party are traditionally not actually as mental as Trump, they are just terrified of not picking him to run against Biden. If trump wasn't around they would probably pick a more moderate candidate and easily beat Biden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots
It's crazy just how common assassinations, attempted assassinations, and assassination plots are and always have been in American politics.
I guess what makes this one unique is how close he got to being successful and how much of a massive failure of security it was.
One thing I would like to see come out of this sorry story is for America to finally acknowledge that the gun laws are too lax.
Also, why didn't the authorities just disable the gunman?
Also, why didn’t the authorities just disable the gunman?
I think they did - they shot him and killed him.
Also, why didn’t the authorities just disable the gunman?
"Shoot him in the kneecap so he drops the gun" only really happens in the films. If it is correct the gunman was lying on a roof some distance away, that's an unreasonable expectation. I'm police sceptical by instinct but I doubt disabling (without killing) the gunman would have been a practical course of action unfortunately.
JFK assassination, U of Texas Tower shooting, Las Vegas concert mass shooting...all lone gunmen shooting from an elevated position.
I'm with @funkmasterp - I'm not actively hoping for a more successful attempt, but at the same time I can't help but think the world would be better off without him.
Missed his brain by about 6 inches apparently....
Only three scenarios I suppose.
1 No assassination attempt. Trump finishes rally, Biden/ Dems still have an outside chance of winning the election.
2 Trump assassinated. Martyred, all the lies about the deep state etc etc are immediately held up as being "true". Possible carnage, law agencies, even military involved in an insurrection attempt. Or... the more sane republicans have a chance to steer the party back to some semblance of normality but they "command" a MAGA mob that will partly see them as part of the conspiracy too...
3 Assassin makes attempt, near miss but gives Trump the election. A living martyre, able to actively participate in the myth/ hero creation. Democracy itself under sustained attack in his second term. NATO on extremely shaky ground and Ukraine gifted to Russia. Israel effectively given free reign in Gaza and west bank and further destabilisation in the middle east ensues.
Overall, I prefer option 1 but comes on, we are all trying to guess the future here. Fair to say that Europe, if it didn't know this already, can no longer rely on the US for it's defence.
Trump isn't the real winner today, Russia, N Korea and China** are.
**China you say, trump hates china? Sure, trump might slap them with some tariffs and talk the talk but it's all manageable and medium/long term the damage he does to the US, NATO, the west is beyond what China could ever have hoped for.
Also, why didn’t the authorities just disable the gunman?
Because most people who carry firearms professionally train to hit centre mass.
Higher likelihood of hit and reducing the chance of injuring or killing someone other than your target or getting dead because you've elected to try and hit their pinky.
Can we please stop asking this dumb ****ing question?
BBC saying that the shooter is a registered republican.
BBC saying that the shooter is a registered republican.
No doubt with legally held guns, and a lifetimes gold membership in the NRA.Probably also a member of the 'shame we can't kill brown people any more' club.
Have we had Farage out yet ? making comparisons from his recent interaction where he came off wearing a milkshake.
He'll be milking his milkshake.
TL;DR - how come his injuries were so minor if it was a rifle?
I'm confused
TL;DR – how come his injuries were so minor if it was a rifle?
I’m confused
Because the shooter missed, well, one bullet slightly grazed his ear, hence the minor injury. A couple of people in the crowd copped it a lot worse.
It appears the shooter used a semi-auto assault rifle of some sort, rather than a hunting or sniper rifle, so probably let of a few shots very quickly and the recoil after the first shot meant the subsequent shots went all over the place unless he took time to re-aim properly.. Assault rifles are not really designed for sniping, they are more a closer range gun.
Hell of a photograph of the bullet in travel next to his head(or the trail or whatever that was). Expect that one to go on permanent display in some museum.
Once it's been milked.
BBC saying that the shooter is a registered republican.
As an aside, it's not unknown for activists in and members of Party A to register as aligned with Party B. It allows them to participate in Party B's primary and vote for the worst candidate to get Party B's nomination. The idea is that that puts Party A in a stronger position - unfortunately the last decade seems to suggest the nuttier the candidate, the more likely they are to win...
What are the chances that in a country where 50% of the population appear to live at the gun range, the shooter managed to miss. Lee Harvey oswald managed 3 shots into a moving target ffs
As for not celebrating his assination. Are we allowed to celebrate when he has a massive heart attack in the white house toilet in a few years time? Just so I know whether to keep the champagne on ice rather than open it if football comes home tonight..
Because hitting a moving target from 150m away with an assault rifle isn't easy. It wasn't a hunting or sniper rifle
I've also seen people asking why others in the crowd behind him weren't hit. They were but the ones behind him form the film aren't behind him from the perspective of the gunman. The bullets didn't travel front to back of photos, rather left to right. Also the foreshortening of the camera, the people look right behind him but we're actually quite a way behind...maybe 20m from arial plans.
I don't understand why the shooter doesn't appear to have been Muslim.
I thought Trump had established that the threat of terrorism in the United States came from Muslims?
Just caught up with a friend of MrsMC who moved back to the UK in 2018 after 20 years in the US. She's a fierce Democrat, and agrees today has been a good day for Trump.
Lee Harvey oswald managed 3 shots into a moving target ffs
Ah but did he…? 😉
Because the shooter missed, well, one bullet slightly grazed his ear
Has the comment "nobody's been this disappointed by two inches since Stormy Daniels" been made yet?
Probably also a member of the ‘shame we can’t kill brown people any more’ club.
The Democrats?
and agrees today has been a good day for Trump.
Credit where credit is due.....only Trump could get shot in an assassination and get the heroic covered in blood money shot, but the wound be so unfeasibly superficial an elastoplast would have done the clean up job. The odds of achieving that must be millions to one. His band of looney followers will have elevated him to war vet meets crosses with the Messiah status.
How can you miss a pumpkin topped by a load of unwound shredded wheat. Trump will be loving every minute of this. Bestest, most bigly failed assassination attempt in history. He’ll now be seen as a hero by the MAGA crowd.
Could be worse.
Could be heading into trump's second term with a Tory government given another 5 years mandate too...
Imagine that scenario for one moment.
Could be worse.
For all those subscribing to the virtue signalling in some circles to this failed shooting... what would be the reaction to hearing Putin had been shot? Or the Ayatollah? Or Kim Jon Un ? Or in the past, Polh Pot, or Mugabe, etc
Celebration ? Why any difference with Tronald Dump ?
what would be the reaction to hearing Putin had been shot? Or the Ayatollah?
Are you aware that the President of Iran died suddenly two months ago and nothing has changed as a result? Or that Khomeini died 34 years ago and both his cult of personality and regime persist?
You picked a great example to show that people's deaths rarely solve problems on their own but assassinating them might come with the added bonus of reprisals against the weak.
Someone with real humility would have recognised that the bloke that did get killed turned to deliberately place himself as a shield between the shooter and his family. That’s a brave and righteous hero.
But not Trump, he’s only interest in his own distorted monstrous self indulgent legacy.
Short interview of Evan Vucci telling how he got that pic. After hearing shots he went towards the podium. A guy doing his job without considering his safety.
https://apnews.com/video/pennsylvania-butler-national-national-decb43c08e0f497bb4ce70c2fbd625b5
You didn't answer the question. I didn't ask for the reaction after a heart attack straining to pass an oversized jobbie.
Because the shooter missed, well, one bullet slightly grazed his ear, hence the minor injury.
Or he banged his head on the lectern as the security men took him down.
Donald! Duck!
Also, why didn’t the authorities just disable the gunman?
First off, the Secret Service really screwed the pooch on this job, by clearly not putting an agent or other agency agent on top of every flat roof within two miles of the conference.
Second, to answer the question, the shooter was lying prone on the roof, presenting a very, very small target of opportunity even to a skilled sniper.
Because the shooter missed, well, one bullet slightly grazed his ear, hence the minor injury.
Or he banged his head on the lectern as the security men took him down.
Ah, so you’ve missed the video footage where you hear the first shot, then dTrumph immediately puts his hand up to his ear, followed by him dropping to the floor, where the SS (unfortunate initials, those…) pile on.
TBH, from 600ft away, using a commercially available AR15, to literally put a bullet through dTrumph’s earlobe, brushing the side of his skull, is pretty remarkable accuracy; it may only have been dTrumph turning his head slightly as he was talking that saved his life, or even just a breath of wind…
agent on top of every flat roof within two miles of the conference.
What, even the ones out of ear shot?
Ah, so you’ve missed the video footage...
Yes all of it.
the authorities could only identify the shooter using his DNA.... that was a pretty RAPID result, as they said that the aforementioned shooter was not known to them.... they must have had his DNA somewhere on the database...
They got everones when installing the 5g chips during the scamdemic
Trump was definitely crazy lucky that day.
The murder of Putin would not result in a more peaceful, democratic Russia. There are no institutions and no succession plan. Whoever seizes power would likely be more erratic than Putin
Assuming he’s not already dead and we are already seeing it 🙁
where the SS (unfortunate initials, those…) pile on
That reminds me, have the Pet Shop Boys been blamed for all this yet?
He was going to beat Biden anyway. He is an awful man but all this "the world is safer without him" stuff is nonsense.
Ooof… just heard a Republican on radio4 blaming the secret service for being too “woke” and being too focussed on “recruiting women and whatever” rather than their job.
The woke thing is nonsense but they really did drop the ball here. That kid had a perfect vantage point well within the range of most assault rifles, never mind proper hunting/sniper rifles. A drone in the air would’ve easily spotted him lying prone on the roof.
I think some have an unrealistic view of what the secret service can really do at a series of whistlestop campaign events, cultivated by film rather than reality. I suspect there are many times a day when the candidates are exposed to potential risks like this, because it is just logistically impossible to provide the kind of security we seem to expect. And conversely maybe it is that unrealistic view of that discourages more assassination attempts, another case of security theatre.
I saw something yesterday where an ex secret service man explained there are three zones close (stage), mid (crowd) and far (perimeter).
The mid is controlled by local police and that's where the shooter was. Communication between local police and secret service is not direct and in the recent past there was a close call between the CIA and secret service not knowing about each other at a event and the CIA nearly getting shot.
Also the shooter was so "close" the secret service snipers had to adjust (aim down?).
There's no doubt in my mind that the Secret Service messed up and all of those rooftops should have had security/police/whatever controlling them. The director of the secret service, Kimberly Cheatle, has some questions to answer and she was appointed by President Biden, which will fuel some conspiracists
Donald Trump now needs to control his followers, tit-for-tat violence from the conspiracy wing is the last thing that his campaign needs with Jan 6th still very raw (and unresolved) for US democracy and justice. His "Fight" message wasn't his best idea.
Violence will disaffect more "silent" US voters come November, along with those already pulling away on a variety of rights grounds. Many will foresee a stronger erosion of rights as he feels it more necessary now to bring trusted rather than competent people into his orbit to MAGA
EDIT to say that assassinations and regime change rarely have a simple outcome. It wasn't a good idea
That picture of the bullet whizzing past his head…if that had hit him the photographer would’ve caught a horrendous picture
Evangelicals lapping up trumps miracle survival, will only strengthen his support with that group
It's inevitable that there will be violent repurcussions.
Donald Trump now needs to control his followers
THe insurrection guy? Fat chance.
America has issues
https://twitter.com/WalmartThomist/status/1812260953464983603?t=-OIt5wiqM9PXsWsjAFXDQA&s=19
what would be the reaction to hearing Putin had been shot? Or the Ayatollah? Or Kim Jon Un ? Or in the past, Polh Pot, or Mugabe, etc
Celebration ? Why any difference with Tronald Dump ?
It's interesting. I remember when Boris Johnson was hospitalised with covid and I found myself not wishing he would die, but aware that if he did, I wouldn't be hugely disappointed.
Anyway, I guess the answer to the question above is that while the people cited are arguably in a similar category to Trump, the context is different. They are all despotic autocrats, while Trump operates within a functioning democracy - even if he wishes it functioned differently.
Whether you think it would be better for him not to exist or not, the impact on a democracy of the assassination of a wildly-popular public figure is potentially huge. Applaud it and you're effectively endorsing the idea that political violence is an acceptable part of politics. Of course Trump himself has arguably already done that, but that's beside the point.
It's a bit like doping in elite cycling. Just because one, dysfunctional individual does it, shouldn't somehow legitimise it for everyone else and if you do allow that to be the case, you change the context of bike racing completely. So basically, in really simple terms, if it's okay to shoot Trump, how is not also okay to shoot Biden, Harris, or any other political figure.
That doesn't stop you from having dark thoughts that maybe the world would be better off without Trump - I think that's just a normal human reaction - but rationally you shouldn't endorse violent assassination on all sorts of levels, but fundamentally because it cannot form part of a functioning democracy.
All of which is actually pretty obvious, no?
Many will foresee a stronger erosion of rights
Finally got around to watching “Vice” last night… sort of Adam Curtis as if done for more laughs. Recommended.
Re: successful assassination.
There's a significant minority of people in the US who 'know' that this was a Democrat/communist/globalist (they're the same thing) attempt on the life on the man they already think should be coming to the end of his second term. They're more than ready to take up arms to defend what they think is the real USA. I would imagine that the security detail for Gretchen Whitmar, and Nancy Pelosi (for example) would have been re-doubled as a result. Alex Jones, Nick Fuentes et al, are already telling their listeners that there will be another attempt at both Trump and the RNC.
the authorities could only identify the shooter using his DNA…. that was a pretty RAPID result, as they said that the aforementioned shooter was not known to them…. they must have had his DNA somewhere on the database…
I think, but I can't find the article now, that the cops/whoever said they identified the gunman not from ID in his pockets but "by other means". That might not be DNA. I think there was a suggestion the gun was registered to his father - so perhaps the serial number could be immediately searched? I have no idea how accessible that data is. Or it could be something as simple as a local cop recognising him from around town.
One thing I would like to see come out of this sorry story is for America to finally acknowledge that the gun laws are too lax.
There have been 115 shootings in schools this year
https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds/
About 40, 000 killed by guns every year
I suspect the result of this latest will be an increase in gun sales
So the shooter was too far away to get an accurate shot, although had he managed to get to a closer position he would have likely succeeded, and he is very quickly shot dead by counter snipers which ends his assassination attempt, but his represents a security failure? I don't understand why.
Donald Trump is an ex president, surely the resources available for his security should not be limitless? Already along with counter snipers there are apparently several drones and robotic dogs available for his security. It all seemed to have worked fairly well yesterday and he didn't die in the assassination attempt.