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Sooooo, anyone here who would be as loyal to an old boss as he is? I wouldn't but then who knows what leverage Trump still has on him, or what his rewards will be after spending (just) 100 days in jail...
Who says white-collar crime doesn't pay...
So he’s basically not going to cooperate with the prosecution in terms of helping them build a case against Trump
I think that's exactly what he's doing. He's managed to negotiate his prison sentence down to 100 days. So they either had a very flimsy case against him in the first place, or he's offered something pretty significant in return.
I'm 100% confident that the Trump organization has been doing shady and illegal shit for decades. He's managed to avoid prosecution only by bullying or buying-off anyone who tried to stand up to him. His foray into politics has suddenly made him public enemy #1 one for a huge number of people with the clout to actually hold him to account. He might be able to dodge one or two of these investigations, but they only need one to "land". I lose track, but there currently what, 10? 15 serious criminal investigations going on?
My money is on him falling off a yacht
Who says white-collar crime doesn’t pay…
Nobody does.
As far as Weisselberg goes, Trump has rewarded him and his family very well over the years. If he testifies, he loses all that. I'm guessing that he probably just resigned himself to whatever punishment he would get in order that his family get to keep living the good life.
that his family get to keep living the good life.
From what I understand his family live the good life because they've avoiding paying taxes on free money from the Trumps. If the Trump organisation falls, so does his apartment and cars and everything else. Weisselberg's what? In his eighties? He can't do more than a few months in jail otherwise it'll kill him. If they want the info he's got, it's better for the prosecution if they're a bit lenient, he serves a minimal sentence and in turn he says at least something on the stand. I think far from having a weak case against him, it's Hobson's choice as far a Weisselberg's concerned.
I think he's decided that being free and poorer is still better than spending the rest of his life behind bars.
It's certainly an interesting one. As far as I can see he's hedging his bets. Unless he's secretly cooperating behind the scenes, he seems ro be taking a position whereby by refusing to tell everything he knows, he's creating a scenario whereby he is preparing the ground for the Trump org to reach a plea bargain in turn.
After all prosecutors will make a decision on whether to accept that based on likelihood of conviction if it proceeds to trial. Without his testimony in advance the likelihood has to be less, albeit we don't know what else they know/how dependent the case is on him.
So it seems to be that his take is that if the Trump Org can't/are too stoopid to make a deal then he'll take the stand. Bit I'm willing to bet (50p) that they do a deal and it never gets to court..
As far as I can see he’s hedging his bets
Not really. His choices are:
1. You are guilty of tax evasion on a massive scale for decades; a federal crime that will put you away until you die.
2. Plead guilty and get a reduced sentence to your tax evasion. The guilty plea from the man in charge of finances of the Trump organisation will automatically mean fines for the company, he may well say something on the stand, but it's not the end of the world if he doesn't because well; he's admitted his guilt.
This suggests that he might be cooperating.
https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1560148174332764160
Even Rudy won't touch this one!
https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1561824638396661760?t=aLZ1lISlnxG2hWf3SJ6qEg&s=19
That can't be true, surely?
Well, he will be the best lawyer. Biggly
That can’t be true, surely?
If I had a penny for everytime...
That can’t be true, surely?
The Guardian report implies he has a lawyer and the court document that story links to also names a specific lawyer.
I guess his cheque might have bounced though.
So the - heavily redacted - FBI raid affidavit will be released tomorrow. By midday Florida time, so no later than 5pm our time (I think). Should be interesting what it has to say and what is artfully concealed.
Meanwhile, reports that our Bureau friends found multiple instances of classified docs just lying around the gaff. As you do. Especially when you know that the feds (quite literally in this case) are crawling all over yo ass. What a gigantic, pus infected bell-end he really is
TruthSocial not paying its bills.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/trump-social-media-app-facing-financial-fallout
Trump hasn't paid his bills for years. Which may partly explain why the only lawyers who want to work for him appear happy to be 'paid with exposure'.
Also must be reassuring for Americans to note just how secure an environment Mar-a-lago was for 'above top secret' documents:
https://twitter.com/MikeSallah7/status/1563175012978159616
I'm guessing that the FBI and prosecutors are just doing this for laughs.
https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1563197205858889730
I’m guessing that the FBI and prosecutors are just doing this for laughs.
I think they are doing to protect the identity of witnesses.
I think they are doing to protect the identity of witnesses.
Yes. One nutter has already tried to attack an FBI field office so they are going to be erring on the side of caution.
Trump being trolled by Jamie Foxx
https://twitter.com/dailyloud/status/1562811791838654464?s=21&t=JmopWZ5laiFAk155JjuYrg
BREAKING: Trump is representing HIMSELF, with no lawyer at all, in his case against the United States regarding the search of Mar-a-Lago and recovery of government records. The legal term is “pro se” - for himself. He could not find anyone to represent him.
1) I’m sure many people will be getting in the beers and chips ready for what could be highly entertaining, in a slow-motion car-crash sort of way.
2) Well, well, Qu’ell surprise!
BREAKING: Trump is representing HIMSELF, with no lawyer at all, in his case against the United States regarding the search of Mar-a-Lago and recovery of government records. The legal term is “pro se” – for himself. He could not find anyone to represent him
Oh my god you have no idea how much I want this to be true!!
it appears to not be true 🙁
PolitiFact | No, Trump is not representing himself in case against the US government
Where do I get tickets?
It's not true in that trump does have legal representation - but it's far from top drawer.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/courts/trumps-legal-battles-and-the-attorneys-who-represent
And this
Longtime confidants and advisers of Trump have grown extremely worried about Trump’s current stable of lawyers, noting that most of them have little to no experience in cases of this type, according to two people familiar with the internal discussions. People familiar with the search for legal help said the effort includes Susie Wiles, a close adviser to Trump, and attorney Christina Bobb, who was present at Mar-a-Lago during the search and signed for the list of documents taken. Former campaign adviser Boris Epshteyn is taking a prominent role, and former White House aide Kash Patel is advising informally. Patel is raising money for a “legal offense” fund by selling merchandise such as tank tops and beanies emblazoned with the logo “K$H.”
Bobb was previously a host on the far-right, pro-Trump television network One America News. Bobb’s prior legal experience at the federal level consists mainly of a handful of trademark infringement cases on behalf of CrossFit during a stint at a San Diego law firm. She did not respond to requests for comment. Trump’s other lawyer currently based in Florida is Lindsey Halligan, whose practice, according to a professional biography, focuses on insurance claims at residential and commercial properties. She was admitted to the Florida bar in 2014. A search of federal court records found no filings under her name. She did not respond to requests for comment. Trump is also being represented in the records dispute by Alina Habba, who leads a three-attorney firm with an office near Trump’s golf club in Bedminster, NJ. Her professional experience includes serving as general counsel to a parking garage company.
I doubt if the DoJ or the Fulton County DA or Letitia James are even slightly concerned by the quality of the legal opposition.
leffeboy - looking at the 'quality' of trump's legal representation you should be using a double smiley emoji
Good point. I'm amazed that anyone would work for him given his history of not paying
I doubt if the DoJ or the Fulton County DA or Letitia James are even slightly concerned by the quality of the legal opposition
OMG that looks so good!!!
Some names that should be written clearly on a sheet of paper and placed in front of Agent Orange:
Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning, Reality Winner, Julian Assange, General James Cartwright, David Petraeus, Jonathan Pollard.
All had secret documents or access to them and broke the law regarding those documents. Nobody is beyond the law, regardless of what they think.
shermer - yes; online politics section of Vanity Fair website.
Will post link later.
Amazing, thanks!
shermer - here you go...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/08/donald-trump-lawyer-problems-classified-documents-raid
Trump might be the first recipient of the grand chelem for violating every section of the U.S. criminal code.
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1564296472211759104
He's really sounding totally deranged. He already did to be fair, but I've known angry toddlers more rational than Trump.
Combined with the accidentally deleting all their text messages from Jan 6, this does not reflect well on the Secret Service.
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1564430677638103041
this does not reflect well on the Secret Service.
The MAGA crowd are painting the DOJ and FBI as enemies of the people - legitimising them as targets. Secret Service agents who testify will be seen as turncoats and traitors. I wouldn't be surprised if these are actions of self preservation rather than collusion.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these are actions of self preservation rather than collusion.
No, from what I've seen, the Secret Service, FBI, military, and law enforcement in general are full of MAGA people.
The latest Economist podcast "Checks and Balance" has an excellent summary of the road that the USA is heading down: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1RUnZmi4P6WjYFZ5pe9hSB?si=29295f6346aa4c66
Also, if this is self preservation, what is stopping him being slapped with a court order to testify? He can always plead the 5th, so I am not sure what resigning from the Secret Service gets him.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these are actions of self preservation rather than collusion.
Nah for a subset of the secret service agents it does look like they went full trumpist.
I am not sure what resigning from the Secret Service gets him.
A private sector job working for a wealthy Trump admirer with a much bigger salary and free legal services, as long as he keeps his mouth shut.
One of the problems with the U.S. government is that anyone associated with a scandal has to hire a lawyer just to advise them on how to not get caught up in things they had no control over. And, as the old joke goes, even the lawyers need lawyers. The legal fees can bankrupt an innocent person who just happened to be the room when someone else committed a crime. I suspect he took a private sector job so that he could raise money to pay the inevitable legal fees. I also think he's probably not very innocent so will really need a good lawyer.
Rick ★ ™ - Beto For Texas!
@RickChapterTwo
· Aug 29
So the Republicans are saying that when Trump is arrested, which he will be, there will be fighting in the streets.
There will be dancing in the streets for us Democrats, so it seems like it’s gonna be just a different version of West Side Story.
It's like a really bad version of one of those crass TV shows.
We've had 'I'm a celeb in the 'jungle', get me out of here!'
Now we have ..I got voted out, but I should still be in charge.. heheh
Bwahahahaha
I love this byline from the article linked above.
there’s no mechanism in the U.S. Constitution for a losing incumbent president to be reinstated in the White House
Amazing, you'd have thought the founding fathers would have been all over a process to reinstate a president that has demonstrably lost the vote. The man is truly sub-Johnson.
So the Republicans are saying that when Trump is arrested, which he will be, there will be fighting in the streets.
So, let's suppose there's a tiny, weeny sliver of truth in that statement, anyone care to speculate what happens next? After the lack-lustre response by law enforcement during the Jan 6th insurrection, will the Democrats send in the SWAT teams to violently slap down any nonsense?
anyone care to speculate what happens next?
A) Lots of 'lawyers' will be hired. Not all of them will be paid.
B)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-6273345 1">Truth Social banned from Google Play Store per the Beeb...
(Though that probably doesn't preclude use of a browser on an Android phone)
It's still on Play from what I can see?
It’s still on Play from what I can see?
I'm not the slightest bit interested in installing it, so never bothered looking 😉
Your right though, looks like Google are not happy with the app respecting their T's and C's.👍😁
I’m not the slightest bit interested in installing it, so never bothered looking
It's one of those things I'm morbidly curious about, but not brave enough to go and see for myself. Kinda like those specialist entertainment establishments you find in Amsterdam.
This thread just provides more evidence for what everybody already knew - Trump and his lawyers are being criminally investigated and obstruction of justice is one of the likely charges.
https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1564821334579941376
Not all of them will be paid.
That's ridiculous. None of them will be paid, especially now the RNC isn't picking up the tab.
After the lack-lustre response by law enforcement during the Jan 6th insurrection, will the Democrats send in the SWAT teams to violently slap down any nonsense?
From the Patriot Front 'training videos' I've seen, a stern look should scatter them.
It'll be a beautiful own goal from the maga lot if they riot. Get caught and convicted then they're banned from owning a gun. Mmm toughy.
From the Patriot Front ‘training videos’ I’ve seen, a stern look should scatter them.
When I first saw this, all I could think of was Monty Python.
https://twitter.com/telltaleatheist/status/1563186437289553920
All it's missing is a couple of guys with coconuts. And a legless, armless psycho headbutting anyone within range 🤣
But unfortunately too much of the mechanisms of authority have swung to the Republican myth that they are treated better by Republican governments, as well as the maga and far right infestations in the organisations (as was seen in the BLM protests). Even with the evidence in front of their eyes, the treatment of 911 1st responders and recently the PACT act where the republicans showed exactly what they thought of 1st responders and veterans, they still believe the myth. So if the maga crowd and far right do manage to bait the gullible into rioting, I am wouldn't be confident of the police and army will to deal with it (on a grass root level at least).
When I first saw this, all I could think of was Monty Python.
Didnt realise Morris Dancing was such a big thing in the US
There is a potted summary on the first episode of the News Agents podcast with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel.
leaked patriot front video shows the members training for war pic.twitter.com/GkzTW77w2c
— Owen Morgan (Telltale) (@telltaleatheist) August 26, 2022
Is there a reason some of those flages seem to be upside down?
Is there a reason some of those flages seem to be upside down?
Because they are dribbling drooling, banjo plucking, cousin ****ing idiots.
Because they are dribbling drooling, banjo plucking, cousin **** idiots.
Yeah, apart from that 🙂
Upside down flag represent, I think, distress or coercion or something. As in, “we need rescuing” type of distress. Could be that.
Imagine being a lawyer for Trump. Knowing you're not going to get paid (but at least may have a shot at some other well paid MAGA gigs to cover it and then just having to deal with him.
Lawyer "Okay, Mr Trump, lets just say it was an FBI plant and we can try and argue the case in court if we just stick to this story"
Trump "Okay"
Trump to the world "Nah, I admit to having the documents but I gave myself a god like ability to auto-declassify everything I touch"
Lawyer "Sigh"
I really can't fathom why any self respecting lawyer would go anywhere near him.. You might not get paid and even if you do you could well be trashing your reputation when your pen client publicly undermines his own defence..
It’s an absolute circus, hahaha!
Upside down flag represent, I think, distress or coercion or something. As in, “we need rescuing” type of distress. Could be that.
So the older boys are making them do it, and they want their mums to come and pick them up now.
Of course, whilst all this is going on, the investigation in Georgia into his attempts to overturn their election results continues. As I understand it, this is the one that carries the greatest personal threat to Trump, particularly in terms of potential jail time. This being because his fingerprints are all over this (unlike say the NY stuff where it is the corporation being pursued, not him personally). If he gets found guilty in Georgia he's going down. And you can bet that the rats like Giuliani are busy chuckinghim as many buses as they can find!
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/31/politics/mary-peltola-alaska-house-special-election/index.html
This is supposedly a very red state, and Sarah Palin, who seems to be heading for defeat, is a big name for the right. The penny must finally be dropping for the Republicans that ****ing with reproductive rights and trying to end democracy may not go down well even with their own vote.
(They'll say that this is only a special election, and will get done over in November, but still...)
That's done now. Peltola has won. She was ahead of the Orange Gibbon endorsed Palin anyway, but picked up enough 2nd choice votes from the other Republican challenger to win.
So lots of Republican voters preferred to make a Democrat their 2nd choice rather than the other Republican candidate.
The runes are going to make interesting reading. It can - and will - be argued that it was only a special election and they tend to deliver strange results (a bit like some of our by-elections which - usually - return to type once a General Election hoves into view) and that it will revert to type in November. However, given the state of play right now, the high profile nature of the candidate and the fact that she was endorsed by Trump, it doesn't look very good from a hardline MAGA perspective 🤔
In the meantime the Orange one's lawyers have submitted their request for the court to approve their desperate delaying tactic / appoint a Special Master to conduct an independent review of the seized documents. This from Potitico:
WEST PALM BEACH, FL – Donald Trump’s lawyers contended Wednesday that the Department of Justice is trampling on his rights and demanded an independent review of materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate. But the former president’s lawyers sidestepped the most serious obstruction-of-justice claims prosecutors aired against him just hours earlier, and Trump’s legal team notably avoided echoing an assertion their client resurfaced earlier in the day: that he had declassified the documents at issue in the dispute.
In a 19-page court filing, Trump’s attorneys insisted that an outside “special master” should consider whether any of the materials seized from Trump’s estate are subject to executive privilege. They argued that they couldn’t simply accept the Justice Department’s word that it had carefully screened out any attorney-client privileged records, particularly because investigators have not yet provided a detailed inventory of the items seized from Mar-a-Lago.
“There is no guarantee that the ‘limited set’ of potentially privileged materials identified by the Privilege Review Team constitutes all privileged materials among the Seized Materials,” Trump’s attorneys Lindsey Halligan, James Trusty and Evan Corcoran wrote as they pushed U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon to appoint an outsider to conduct a review. “Left unchecked, the DOJ will impugn, leak, and publicize selective aspects of their investigation with no recourse for Movant but to somehow trust the self-restraint of currently unchecked investigators,” the Trump lawyers wrote.The newest member of Trump’s legal team, former Florida Solicitor General Chris Kise, did not sign on to the filing.
Trump’s filing landed after what appeared to be a key admission. In a social media post just hours earlier, the former president indicated he had been aware of the documents marked “top secret” that were, in his words, stashed in “cartons’’ in his personal office at Mar-a-Lago. Trump’s attorney had asserted in June that no such documents remained on the property.
“They took them out of cartons and spread them around on the carpet,” Trump said, after criticizing FBI agents for displaying the documents for a photo that the Justice Department revealed publicly Tuesday night.
The Trump filing Wednesday also made no mention of any declassification. The Justice Department asserted Tuesday that neither Trump nor his lawyers ever mentioned “declassification” during months of talks ahead of the Aug. 8 FBI search–a claim Trump’s team did not dispute Wednesday. Rather, the former president’s attorneys focused much of their argument on whether the government failed to adequately account for the give-and-take of the Presidential Records Act, the Nixon-era law that governs the retention of White House records by the National Archives.Trump’s rebuttal to the DOJ comes as the department appears to be mulling a significant obstruction of justice case against the former president and his team, underscored by evidence the department revealed Tuesday in response to Trump’s lawsuit. The department has argued that privileged documents seized at Mar-a-Lago would inherently be property of the government, not Trump, particularly when they consist of extraordinarily sensitive national security records.
So one of the key arguments that the buffoon has been putting forward - that he magically declassified the records himself - has been quietly dropped (because it was bollix obvs). In addition his pique-filled verbal incontinence has quietly scuppered any claims that he had cooperated, and/or that he had thought his people had cooperated. After all he's admitting that the docs were in his office!
I image part of the reason he can't find lawyers is they keep telling him to take a plea deal. To which in his own mind he's the president the most powerful man on the planet and copping for it, much like taking the fifth, is for losers 😀
How much longer are some of the investigations into Trump going to go on? We have the Washington Riot, New York property fraud, Georgia election, Mar-a-Lago, secrets and there is probably a few more. But all appear to be crawling slowly through judicial mire. There is a new Presidential Election approaching rapidly, and if Trump goes for nomination, then all the prosecuting agencies will face a whole heap of trouble in the eyes of MAGA and other nutters, for attempting to prosecute a Presidential candidate. Is it not time for one of the prosecutors to step up and start proceedings before it is too late.
Is it not time for one of the prosecutors to step up and start proceedings before it is too late.
They have a grand jury system in the USA where a prosecutor can be building a case without the intended targets knowledge for a long period of time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States
It's why sometimes a massive case can appear out of nowhere fully formed as the grand jury system puts a gag order on reporting too. So if the feds turn round to reporters and say zip-it on a subject they have to. We have gag orders on criminal cases too, it just works in a different way here.
Nothing will happen before the mid terms in November. After that they've got until July 2024 (roughly when the Republican convention will declare their candidate) to charge and convict. They're not going to back off somebody because they're a declared candidate. Otherwise every Tom, Dick and Harry facing legal jeopardy would be chucking their hat into the ring!
Now if the Republican primaries decide to throw their weight behind a known spiv facing numerous legal challenges and who might, come election time, be disqualified from standing and/or in prison, then that's their prerogative. But they'd probably better have a plan B..
Is it not time for one of the prosecutors to step up and start proceedings before it is too late.
I think Trump's team are using every delaying tactic in the book, which makes rapid prosecution harder - see the Mar-e-Lago court filing as a great example.
He's refused to testify too (as he's entitled to do). But that places more emphasis on other forms of evidence, which take longer to acquire and validate. I reckon if Trump had co-operated with the NY tax investigation, it would be over by now.
documents marked “top secret” that were, in his words, stashed in “cartons’’ in his personal office at Mar-a-Lago. Trump’s attorney had asserted in June that no such documents remained on the property.
Which means the lawyers are going down to. Courts take a dim view of their officers misleading them. The term rats in a sack comes to mind.