[Closed] Doing up a flat to let - how far do I go?

you know your market and the people likely to rent it out . Quality fittings last longer .

Make your decisions based upon how easy the flat will be to let out for the return you want. It sounds to me like you are looking at high quality and bells/whistles which sound quite costly. £15k to do up a studio apartment is £10k more than I would have thought would be necessary.

If you have new central heating going in I would not bother with a fake log burner - you will need to get it checked/serviced regularly which will be a PITA.

If it will be easy to rent out I would aim to keep my spending at less than half the maximum you have mentioned. Remember it is not you who is going to be living there!

It needs a new kitchen - the current one is rubbish and I want to alter the layout significantly.  The fake log burner will add a focal point to the room it badly lacks but it will take a long time to get the money back.  We let below market rent so its easy to let and because we make enough from it to make me feel uncomfortable anyway

£15000 includes £3500 for the new central heating and £1000 to bring the electrics up to spec ie proper smoke and heat detectors, new consumer unit which is now needed to let in Scotland,  That money plus a basic kitchen is essential.  So I could do the essential work for around £7500 and get a lower rent or go for a higher spec for more rent.  For example I could use the existing fridge ( under worktop one) and have no freezer or spend £400+ on a nice shiny new fridge freezer.

dishwasher is the other question.  Would you expect one in a flat nowadays at the top end oof the market?

I wouldn't put a s****y tv in.

Let the tenant deal with that. That way if it breaks it's their problem not yours.

Make all the touch points impeccable, the relaxing positions undeniably comfortable.

Simple really.

I'd expect a dishwasher

I'd fit the cabling and wall mount for a big off TV (60") too, as if you do it, then you won't have to fix a tenants half assed efforts in the future - although you'll need to make sure the TV bracket is fitted fully to code just in case soke drunken numpty rips it off the wall...

I was thinking of a 40" second hand telly.  Not a lot of money.  fixed / hidden cabling to a wall mount.  Tenants will not be allowed to make holes in walls

How much difference in rent, then weigh up the 'return' on nearly doubling the refurb. What if someone makes off with the quality fitttings ?

If the difference has a good payback, then yes.

About 4 years to pay back the difference between minimum spend to make it meet regs and be decent and a high end spec in increased rent.  Its a 15 - 20 year rental then sell probably.  Its a big part of our retirement fund. We retire in 3 years

I've rented a lot of places at around that size and price, and as a tenant I mostly want the basics to be good: decent quality kitchen + appliances (inc dishwasher) and good heating/hot water/shower. If it's obvious the landlord has just fitted the cheapest possible everything, it's usually not a good sign.

I wouldn't be bothered about the TV (not everyone wants one now, plenty of other devices to watch stuff on) and the gas log burner would be a nice bonus but definitely not essential.

I often have to tell landlords that their properties have been abandoned.

I've seen grown men cry at the state they've found it.

If you are going to rent it out I would be doing the minimum I could.

That way if you get a bad tenant and you have to rip it all out and start again it won't be too painful.

Make sure you do your homework on your tenants and maybe get a guarantor?

Having said that, a higher end property may attract people less likely to trash it.

I'd also do regular monthly check ups. Im always surprised when landlords rent out houses worth £150k and they never visit and then they get upset 2 years later when they find it's been trashed. If you go though an agent make sure they do regular checks and send you pictures as proof.

As a former landlord i’d Do the barest minimum beyond legal requirements in an unfurnished property.

You sort the basic fabric, smoke & CO alarms, gas safety certificates, the kitchen & cooker.  Let the tenants sort out white goods, furniture, tv etc. The more money they ‘need’ to put in, the less likely they are to trash the place.

ABSOF***NGLUTELY NO DOGS. NO SMOKING.

dishwasher a bonus. Cable/satellite tv connection, broadband essential for high end / “professional” tenants

Its furnished already. and its next door to the flat we live in so supervision of tenants is easy

Ta for the advice chaps

 its next door to the flat we live

landlord from hell 😉

As a serial renter, clean and functioning is what I require.

It's not my house and never will be, so as long as everything works I'm happy. Couldn't give two hoots about a particular fireplace as long as there is plenty of hot water and heating. Wouldn't be fussed about a dishwasher as it's just a flat for only two people, so really no need. Certainly wouldn't expect a telly.

🙂

I've done 3 houses up really nicely and have ended up with excellent (so far) tenants.

But some Airbnb places we've stayed in have been really well appointed.  Maybe that's the way to go in Edinburgh.

Buying a TV sounds mad. Would you want a landlord choosing a bike for you?

If you want to do a wall mount, then for the love of god make sure it is at eye level (when seated), not half way up a wall.

good point.  So maybe put cable in and a telly unit but not a telly?  Or just a cheap telly which would allow them to put a posh one in?  I was going to put it quite high on the wall but point taken.

The other aspect is we want to make a nice home for someone and also " a good deal is one where both sides are happy"  Look after the tenants and they will look after the flat - and a big deposit 😉

Annoying left field reply (with tongue firmly in cheek).

Invest in a low cost, eg Vanguard/IShares, REIT fund.   They return 95% of the profits to the fund holders, are diversified as much as you want (UK, global, commercial, etc), can be bought through an ISA tax free for ever, and crucially involve almost zero effort.

Let someone else do the heavy lifting!

https://www.ishares.com/us/products/268752/ishares-global-reit-etf

We retire in 3 years

Sell it now. I've just sold a flat I've been renting out for 23 years. The last thing you want when retired is the hassle of a flat and tenants. You don't even have kids so just put the money in relatively liquid assets and aim to cash burn until you're an age where you're unlikely to be capable of burning cash. As for the idea of keeping it until you're about 80, that's mad.

The problem with stuios is that there's a limit to what people are prepared to pay for something small. They will often opt for something with a separate bedroom but slightly less luxurious at the same price point.

Julie

it will be kitchen / sitting room with a separate bedroom.  Aim to sell up when in early 70s.

good point.  So maybe put cable in and a telly unit but not a telly?  Or just a cheap telly which would allow them to put a posh one in?  I was going to put it quite high on the wall but point taken.

I personally just would just skip the wall mounting, but I've never understood people's obsession with it. By the time you have a unit to put associated kit in and mounted the TV on the wall at a sensible height you are left with the TV floating a couple of inches above the unit. For all the hassle of chasing the cables for the 2" gap, seems mad, just put the TV on the unit. Also 'put a cable in' seems a minefield. Power? Aerial? Ethernet? USB? Optical? How many HDMI? Are the HDMI's up to spec for full 4k-HDR etc. etc.

I’d probably look for a TV unit that could double as a nice sideboard in case they didn’t want a TV and leave it at that.

As above, a solid wood (eg. mango) sideboard that could fit a 32"+ TV and scrap the idea of a mount and providing a telly.

Make the sideboard the focal point and scrap the idea of the gas burner, it's a waste if the new central heating is up to spec.

Decent size fridge freezer and a dishwasher (perhaps compact, depending upon size of kitchen).

Good quality underlay under the carpet?

Bare in mind a decent TV won’t come in anything less than 55” so spec the sideboard for that if going down that route.

Ta chaps

I'm now having visions of a 55" tv in any of the studio flats I've ever lived in...I'd probably be able to see about 1/4 of the screen without having to move my head...

Bare in mind a decent TV won’t come in anything less than 55”

What?

I had a 50" TV in a very large front room,moved house to somewhere with a more typical sized front room. It looked ridiculous. Had to buy a smaller one.

What do you mean by "decent"?

It wasn't that long ago that 36" was about the biggest domestic TVs available.

Doesn't sound like a studio flat it has a separate bedroom, just a standard 1 bed flat

What?

I had a 50″ TV in a very large front room,moved house to somewhere with a more typical sized front room. It looked ridiculous. Had to buy a smaller one.

What do you mean by “decent”?

It wasn’t that long ago that 36″ was about the biggest domestic TVs available.

I'm sort of being a knob on peupose, but if you want invest in a TV that's going to last you a good few years, and you're buying today, then you want OLED and they start at 55". TV's are so much less bulky nowadays that you can go much bigger. I recently moved from a 42" plasma to a 55" OLED and the physical size is very similar and I'd say the 55" is less imposing in the room as the design is literally just a borderless black screen with no built in speakers.

TJ - I think you are underselling that calling it a studio.  I've always understood studio to = 1 main room (which may or may not have the kitchen separate).  You have a bedroom + open plan living/kitchen.  I suspect the target market for 1 bed flats in Ed doesn't overlap too much with the target market for fake flame fires.  A big fridge can be useful but realistically is probably more a family need than a 1/2 person need.  Dishwasher not essential, but at 750/month if there is space then its the sort of detail that will make it harder for people to shop around for something better - could be a half size one in that size place.  Agree with comments re TV, but making sure there is aerial connection AND ethernet connection, plenty of sockets etc makes the difference between a polished finish and a bodge.

There must be some interesting dilemas around the potential for Brexit to screw up house prices, the potential for a second Indy Ref (and or its outcome) to screw up house prices, the potential for the Scottish Government to screw over private landlords v's the potential return that the flat can bring you in the meantime.

To me its a studio as its going to be a kitchen / sitting room with a separate bedroom.  Maybe you are right tho and call it a one bed flat.  Its around 50m2  main room is 8.4m by 3.6 m, bedroom 3.5x3.5m bathroom 2.5mx2.5m and also a utility room where the washing machine, boiler, tumble drier etc will go and still have space for coats and boots.
Maybe its a docklands loft apartment 😉

Poly - yes a lot is up in the air.  fortunatly the mortgage is almost paid and the money to do it up is not having to be borrowed.   I am in favour tho of the scottish governments move away from landlords to tenants rights but it does mean we have to get it right

In England, a studio flat by definition means the bed is in the living room, there is not a separate bedroom. 😉

Standards are slipping, TJ. Why not make a bit of an effort?

You've already been letting out the flat for some time so you know the market and the ups and downs of renting.

You let it furnished so yes, include a tv but no need to loose track of other more important issues and spend all your time worrying about it. Internet, Bluetooth, etc probably more important.

Keep the kitchen simple with plenty of worktop, easy to keep clean, and a good working cycle; preparation>oven>dish>wash-up with decent storage. These days everyone is big into fancy home-cooking like in all the tv shows so I'd put in a good microwave and recycling/rubbish disposal facilities because the reality is ready-meals and takeaways!

Faux woodburner? I probably wouldn't waste money on that. It's a city apartment, not a country cottage. If you must have a focal point, put in some arty fireplace instead.

Some of the comments you make suggest a slightly philanthropic outlook on providing accommodation for people and yet you are thinking of preparing a top-of-market apartment to let at a discounted top-end rent. That may cause some conflict of thought in planning the improvements to the apartment?

🙂

thanks for the feedback folks - helps a great deal

As a long-time flat renter I'll chime in with my tuppence on this:

Don't go basic on everything, it makes a place look cheap and puts a doubt in the renter's mind about whether repairs will get done etc.  Value for money is the level to aim at.

For a 1 bed flat/studio a dishwasher is not necessary.  It just takes up space and costs money to run.  It's also a potential issue with noise, not in your flat but the vibrations can travel into neighbouring flats.  Which also brings me onto washing machines.  No bells and whistles needed on these but do get one with a delay timer on it!  It makes such a difference being able to set it to do the washing while you're out during the day rather than running it in the evening, creating noise for you and the neighbours.  This is especially important if the tenant works long hours or shifts.

For the decor make it all the same standard and something easy to clean and repair.  In my previous flat they had put in a really posh worktop that was custom cut to fit (the original landlord's son was a kitchen fitter by trade so I guess it was cheaper).  They sold the flat while I was in there and the new landlord baulked at the cost of repairing a crack it developed after he had some work done on the flat below that caused a tiny bit of subsidence.  The tenant won't really care about how high quality the fixtures are, as long as they are functional, fine to look at and easy to clean they'll be fine.

Saying all that there are two things not to scrimp on if you're supplying them: the bed and the sofa.  These need to be comfy and can make a big difference to how a tenant looks after a place or even how long they stay for.

Putting a TV in is not worth the hassle IMO as it'll either be the wrong height, size or have the wrong connections.  Plus what happens if it gets broken and you can't find a replacement to fit the same bracket?

At the end of the day all a tenant wants is somewhere they can relax and sleep, as long as everything is perfectly useable and looks good so they can have friends round.  If you get that right and the rent is competitive then you'll have no problems.

psling - indeed which is why I started this thread.  STW is no echo chamber and folks comments really have helped.  I want it to be a nice home for someone and I want a deal that makes everyone happy and a bit of "enlightened self interest" means that letting it a bit cheaper than I could makes it easy to let and my hope is that if someone sees us as good landlords they will look after the place.  so far its been very good

I also have half an eye on final resale value in 15 years or so.

All sounds like sugar coated exploitation to me.In a society with massive homelessness problems this really is a sickening thread.

If you're renting it to people below market rate, the kind of people going for it won't be wanting to spend money on gas for a fake log burner, I certainly never used the gas flame fire in my last rental flat, might as well burn money to keep warm. I'd also not expect or want a tv in a rental property, unless you're targetting shorter let periods for people who won't be carting around their own tellies.

If the bedroom becomes separate from the rest of the flat I think you can call it a one bedroom rather than a studio, they seem to go for the same (ridic) prices in Edinburgh anyway.

monkeycmonkeydo

All sounds like sugar coated exploitation to me.In a society with massive homelessness problems this really is a sickening thread.

Do you think so. Homelessness is a result of many and various reasons, are you suggesting that tj providing a unit of accommodation is a cause of homelessness? Even letting at market value, as long as it is occupied it is not adding to homelessness. Indeed, landlords providing sub-standard, slum-like accommodation does a lot more harm and local authorities choosing to delegate their social housing responsibilities to private landlords is inexcusable. But that's a whole other thread!

You're massively underselling by calling it a studio. If there's a room with the sole purpose of sleeping in then it's not a studio. I wouldn't even look at an advert described as a studio even if main the picture was nice.

Having rented a few small places I found it makes a big (+ve) difference to have an actual freezer rather than a freezer box in the fridge. Also really liked one flat which had a cupboard with draining shelves/drip tray above the sink, really helped make up for the small kitchen.

By the way I am appalled but not surprised by the attitude of many on this thread. How about you treat your tennants a bit better rather than going for the cheapest route possible (and no doubt rinsing them for every penny possible when it comes to deposit return) you will maybe find you get nicer tennants for longer... TJ sounds like a great landlord who actually cares for a change - keep that up and you can't go wrong!

PS don't waste your money on a fireplace if the heating system is new

I took monkeys post as a joke!

again ta for the thoughts folks -its actually very helpful

"I took monkeys post as a joke!"

I did wonder but when the batten is dropped you sometimes have to pick it up and run with it!

My idol Binners - thats what I aspire to be