MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I've just learned that our local club has closed after ninety four years.
I recall back in the 80s there was a minimum two year waiting list for memeberships.
Is golf on its arse?
It's been on it's arse for years.
Golf is the old cycling.
I live in South Essex and we *really* struggle to get tee times unless book 2+ weeks ahead.
Most courses we use are pay and play but I have heard from friends who are members that their clubs are hugely busy too.
Could it be location / population density where you are? That said we have umpteen courses and they are all busy, even this crap ones.
It's a change in society that's killed it.
It takes 5+ hours to play a round of golf which is effectively a whole day.
30 years ago it was quite normal for a man with a family to habitually piss off for the entire day at the weekend and leave the wife and kids to their own devices. Not so much these days.
In order to justify the cost of a membership you need to play regularly enough that it takes up a significant chunk of your time and these days people are just time poor.
I played at the weekend though. 3 times. I was on holiday though.
This course is in Salford which is populous.
I used to play a municipal course in a town called Little Hulton which is really rough. Think 24 grit.
Ground under repair was typically grass ripped up by a trials bike and hazards a burnt out MKII Fiesta. A copy of which you'd normally find at the seventh.
Where I live on Ayrshire coast, there's more golf courses than public loos, and most of them are struggling, for many reasons. Not many still have joining fees, or waiting lists.
Takes too long
loads of pensioners on reduced rates don't support the clubs (and adds to point 1^)
Drink driving laws have had massive effect on bar takings
it's still viewed as elitist
it's still viewed as sexist
da yoot are no longer as into it
it's still viewed as being expensive (which it isn't really)
Also, tougher drink drive laws.
Almost all golf courses* are too far away from where people live to walk and everyone loves a pint after a round. The days of having a few in the clubhouse, throwing your clubs in the boot of your Merc and driving home are long gone. Thankfully.
Still happens though. If you want to see drink driving in the modern age then the road outside any golf club would be the place to look.
*Not my local one though. It's on the actual Main Street, a five iron away from the taxi rank and the kebab shop. They make way more money through the bar than they do through the actual fees.
Just took it back up after 10 year absence. First round I had to get up and down from a greenside bunker to break 100, which was a sobering exp.
Anyhow course is literally behind my house and now 2 months later I'm back to shooting in the mid 70s, which is pretty much where I was all those years ago.
But to answer the question..my course is always rammed.
If you think about it, golf courses take up an incredible amount of desirable land and upkeep for a very small amount of people to use at any one time.
It should cost more than it does and the price is already expensive for what it is.
Golf is simply a poor commercial proposition these days. A staggeringly inefficient use of resources.
I like a game of golf but don't actually play much. Takes too much time, is too arsey about rules and costs a lot for what it is.
I'm happy that it's not working as a sport as it may push courses to use their land for other outdoor sports.
I do hope none of them close locally though, I don't play any more, but love a sunrise or sunset over a links course, proper braw. They're great for quiet running too, when it's wet, as the good old duffers of Old Prestwick and Royal Troon don't go out in the rain, so I have them to myself.
Where I live on Ayrshire coast, there’s more golf courses than public loos
There's more golf courses than public loos in central London 🙁
If you want to see drink driving in the modern age then the road outside any golf club would be the place to look
The road outside any country pub is a good place to look tbf.
My mum and her chums are hovering over the BRS app as dates get released because that's apparently the only way to get a round so her club's busy enough it seems.
Drink driving would not be wise at the one I mentioned in my OP.
The driveway leads straight onto the A580.
Ex GF's dad used to have about four pints of bitter before chucking his clubs into the boot of his
900 turbo T16S and spitting up gravel. He lived less than a mile from the club.
@boombang I used to play Sth Essex courses!
I liked playing golf but I got fed up with the archaic dress rules, I haven't played for about 5 years now and miss it.
I like to wear shorts when playing but I got turned away from so many courses that I got fed up with it. The last straw for me was when I was walking to the first tee at a course that I had to wear long trousers to play, and the club pro ran out of the shop and was shouting at me to tuck my shirt in to my trousers. I walked back to the car park and that was it. It's that middle class pseudo public school atmosphere that I can't stand, even on some of the shabbier courses. Shame really as where I now live there is an interesting course over the road (9 holes built on top of an old Victorian dock) that I'd like to play, it's full of old retired people though so I can't see the attitude being any different. I think they're trying to sign up new members as well.
I’m happy that it’s not working as a sport as it may push courses to use their land for other outdoor sports.
Very geographically dependent, there is no shortage of land around here, and nothing that I can think of that would be looking to use the land that the courses take up?.
Even the FT agrees:
Cycling beats golf in the new world of networking
https://www.ft.com/content/98eb4072-7a98-11e6-ae24-f193b105145e
The number of golf players in the US has dropped by 20 per cent in the past decade while in England numbers have fallen 29 per cent since 2008. But if the green no longer cuts it, where should business people swap business cards?
I think top of the league for linky golf courses has to be Fife, at least trumpy doesn't have one unlike Ayrshire
I've often thought that they should split golf courses into 3 sets of 6 holes for most of the week and only use the whole 18 for competitions.
That way you could go and play for 90 mins without pissing off everybody else on the course and instantly treble the capacity for tee off times.
6 holes is plenty. If you want to play 12 or 18 then book two or three tee times.
It’s that middle class pseudo public school atmosphere that I can’t stand,
I think that's a predominantly English / American thing.
Go to any normal Scottish golf course and the car park will have more works vans in it than executive German saloons. It's very much a working mans game up here.
There are obvious exceptions to that though.
Commercial driving ranges (certainly down south near urban areas) probably stole a lot of the younger generation trade and corporate team lunch/evening trade.
Would never catch me walking round a golf course, but I'd go along to a company dinner social event if it was a driving range, 10-pin, etc. (but not paint ball etc. - no interest in that).
My local one back home shut but only ever went there for pitch and putt as a kid. interestingly the bowls centre on site apparently remained operational, which I'd have thought was even less popular, but I imagine that's a gonner too now. Now it's a fight between returning it to nature or building 1000 houses.
Would never catch me walking round a golf course
You must walk really fast.
It’s very much a working mans game up here.
This.
I used to work with guys who were members of Turnberry*, they were on a fairly average wage.
*Pre Trump.
Lots have changed in 10 years since I quit. Now everyone wears shorts, and it's 'ready golf' to speed things up. Not that that helps when you have 4 duffers in front of you who think their Sunday 4 ball is the final round of the US masters.
*Pre Trump.
Which is a pity because they are both great courses.
I got food poisoning from a tomato and mozzerella salad there once*.
*also Pre Trump**
**Donald, not Trouser. I nearly shat my pants on the way home round about Loudon Hill
50/50 split in my group of friends between those who cycle and those who golf. Safe to say the larger members of the group are those on the golf course.
I know most of the clubs round here are busy, though I do run across one course quite regularly that always seems quite.
I had shooting rights at two very prestigious clubs in Greater Manchester.
It was great
My visits were obviously timed for when golfers were not there!
Golf is the old cycling.
this I think
All the 40+ blokes (mostly blokes, still) who used to move into golf when the kids are old enough to look after themselves are now [road] cycling. In massive packs
It's cyclical though. Give it a few years, cycling will be down again, and golf will be back up
**Donald, not Trouser. I nearly shat my pants on the way home round about Loudon Hill
As good a place to shite as anywhere tbh.
a fitter I used to work with shat himself on the Kintyre course, the wee hole you play down to the beach, canny mind the number. He had fawn chinos on, he became known as 'Bonanza pants' thereafter, as his trew resembled the map burning during the titles of said tv show. 🙂
the wee hole you play down to the beach, canny mind the number.
The 8th. I'm currently looking at a photograph on the sideboard of myself putting on that green wearing some decidedly 80's golf shoes with those leather tasselly flap things over the laces.
I had shooting rights at two very prestigious clubs in Greater Manchester.
It was great
My visits were obviously timed for when golfers were not there!
Are you sure about the last bit - because it would explain the fall in numbers...
tried golf a few times, ball is too small, hole is too far away and the stick is a ridiculous shape to be of any use whatsoever. Utter waste of time and best way to spoil a nice walk. IMO obvs.
One memorable shooting foray saw me leaving my lay-up spot to bid good morning to the pilot of a hot air balloon that was drifting over the course. "Good morning to you too." It was quite surreal.
Another memory I have is of switching off seven magpies in about twenty seconds from a hide 60 yards away. That too was quite surreal.
Another memory I have is of switching off seven magpies in about twenty seconds from a hide 60 yards away.
I'd be more impressed if you did it with a lob wedge.
Lots of clubs are being propped up by elderly members who don't play any more but use it as a social club. It can take a really long time for unviable ones to close though, plenty have lots of cash in the bank and owners that don't really care about big profits as land value keeps going up and up.
My nearest public golf course was closed in 2016 and is massively better now as a public park. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2019/jul/19/beckenham-place-park-lewisham-london-lake-woods-rewilding (good little pump track too)
tried golf a few times, ball is too small, hole is too far away and the stick is a ridiculous shape to be of any use whatsoever. Utter waste of time and best way to spoil a nice walk. IMO obvs.
Ha ha. I agree.
There are two Sports that I ruined for myself by good fortune. Surfing, I've only been 4/5 times, but every time with an instructor and around the quiet, nicer beaches around Syndey, when I came home to Wales I just couldn't bring myself to squeeze into a 7mm Wetsuit and try to surf the ripples of the Gowers side stepping turds and tampons as I went. I doff my Cap to UK surfers, you've got to really love it, I don't think it was a Sport designed to work here.
The other ways Golf, before I found MTB I was trying to find a new hobby to keep me off the pills and out of the clubs. I went to a range a few times, I was like Happy Gilmore, without the aim, I sort of got the gist and my old Boss treated me to a round at his club as a reward for something or other, he pays as Celtic Manor, I think I managed 9 Holes, threw up on a bush from a hangover and called it quits, it's very pretty. After that, and hearing what it costs to play / be a member there, I couldn't be bothered going back to the local 9 hole pay as you go.
Now, thanks to a massive MTB crash and the lost of most of the use of my elbow, there are 3 things I can no longer do - Play Golf, Play Pool or Bowl, which is fine by me, I hate them all.
Anyway, ramble over, my local courses seem quiet, apart from that short period when Golf courses could open and very little ease, they were busy then. It runs along the side of one of my local trails.
I’d be more impressed if you did it with a lob wedge.
No sorry. It was a Theoben Rapid 12 in 5mm calibre running at about 30 ft/lbs.
A custom built reflex silencer made it graveyard quiet.
I used to play quite regularly when I was younger but having kids cut down on my free time quite a lot. From the courses around me it seems they're trying to move with the times but there's still a lot of old duffers that don't want things to change and need to line up a putt from every angle possible before and slowing everything down. Not everyone wants to (or more likely has the time to) spend 4+ hours for a round and then another 4 hours at the clubhouse getting tanked up and talking about the 40 points you scored last week.
I played a couple of rounds of speed golf last year and really enjoyed that. It takes an hour or so depending on fitness and it's a really good workout. If more clubs set aside the first hour of tee times for something like that you might get a younger crowd involved.
he pays as Celtic Manor, I think I managed 9 Holes, threw up on a bush from a hangover and called it quits, it’s very pretty. After that, and hearing what it costs to play / be a member there, I couldn’t be bothered going back to the local 9 hole pay as you go.
To be fair, that's like saying that you tried football once by playing at Wembley.
One of the absolute best bits about golf is that , in the main, you can just rock up as an absolute beginner and play on exactly the same courses that the highest level professional competitions are played. There are very few sports where this is the case.
I’ve just learned that our local club has closed after ninety four years.
Had an offer from a developer to put a couple of hundred houses on it with each member getting a cut of the sales fee?
Like most things, you've got to do it a lot to be any good, and given the glacial pace of golf it takes hours. My BIL plays once a week, and that takes up most of his Saturday, but he can't improve as he can't get on the course any more than that. Works in the week ! No doubt he'd be much better in retirement.
Most of the golfers I've met in the past (colleagues) used to go on about how good they were. You'd ask about their handicap, and it would be mid teens - so fairly average. The only other guy, never really said much, although I knew he played a fair amount of golf (no family). I said, 'so I know you play a bit of golf, what's your handicap ?. 'Erm scratch' he said. Truly a very modest man.
One of the absolute best bits about golf is that , in the main, you can just rock up as an absolute beginner and play on exactly the same courses that the highest level professional competitions are played. There are very few sports where this is the case.
Cycling being another and i know which i'd rather choose.
3 within walking distance of me, all open and doing OK. Golf must be popular amongst the pensioners of Calderfornia 🙂
Never seen the attraction myself, but each to their own 🙂
I think there's a number of factors at play:
Average age of members is increasing and failing to attract new members - heyday was the 60s/70s - now green fees not covering costs
Drink drive laws and pressure to spend time with family - not pissed up all Sunday with your mates
Prime development land - particularly if the geriatric members have shares in the club can cash-in
Attitudes do differ between Scotland and England between those who are 'seen' to play golf
Different attitudes to corporate hospitality / inclusivity - all the old duffers going for a piss-up with their mates on expenses is no longer acceptable
When you've got advocates like Donald Trump, who would be attracted to it?
@spursn17 like er... South Essex? I'm just up the road from there by Thorndon Country Park.
I live in Surrey and Golf has never been more popular than it is currently. I think the fact the people are working from home means they can get out more and as a result our course is so busy, we don’t even have room for visitors.
For me it’s not cycling or golf....it’s both.
Leeds Urban Bike Park is largely built on an old golf course, definitely the way forward. There's a golf course on the hill where I live, there's a bridleway through it every time I ride I think it would make a perfect bike park too! Loads of space, decent slope and it's never that busy.
The in laws are into Golf, MILs club folded this year when Covid struck. FILs club still going, he was president a few years back. Does seem that getting absolutely smashed at social events is as important as playing itself 😉
Most golf courses really busy at the mo. Tried to book one the other week (booking a week in advance) for a Friday and all the decent ones within a 50 mile radius were chocker. Sat/Sun totally sold out.
My old club has a very active junior section and now has a waiting list to join.
A good mate of mine runs a golf course. It opened around 1997, just as Tiger was getting into his prime and making it cool and business was booming. Being in N Ireland there was also the Rory factor which helped, but then 2012 happened with Wiggo winning the TdF and the Brits cleaning up the cycling medals at the Olympics. Suddenly the club membership numbers started falling to the stage where a few years ago the course was on it's knees and they were seriously considering winding it up. They've managed to survive and the future is looking more stable but there's no doubt that it was the rise of the MAMIL that almost forced them to close.
I stopped playing for one reason, cost. I can see me doing the same with cycling.
No need to stop cycling because of cost Klunk.
Just don't chase the latest fashion. I stopped a while ago. It's liberating.😀
Almost a direct quote from the secretary of one of the nearby clubs "Covid has been really hard for golf, because so many of our members don't really like playing golf, they just use it as an excuse to hang around with their friends for 18 holes then hit the clubhouse and now their wives won't let them".
I only know two golfers these days one is the old stereotype personified, a high earner with a London based job who moved the whole family to a new house that happens to back onto a golf course so he could disappear at will, IMO he's a bit of a bore.
The other is an Italian who spent a chunk of their formative years in the states and is apparently quite good (how would I know). Her hubby comes out riding with me, she barely even mentions golf.
Is the game getting smaller or is it simply that it's mainly the preserve of those who are "time rich" and can set aside most of a day regularly without reprisals from the spouse?
I'm sure you'll still find plenty of boomer-golfists ready to spend a fortnight avoiding the missus on Tenerife if it weren't for covid...
Played golf a lot until a couple of years ago, hip injury (hip impingement) means i couldn't do it any more, i do miss it, but there was a lot of negatives you had to put up with at golf clubs, such as the muppets who thought they owned the place, the seniors having most of the say, so a lot of prime times taken up by them, and things like dress code and so on.
From all the clubs i went and played at in the region, most were struggling, yes they have a fullish membership, but the money that keeps a club going is from visitors (especially big groups) and the clubhouse through food and functions, both of which are hit a bit now due to the current situation.
There is attempts to make it more interesting to younger folk though, such as the recent rule changes, fashions being eased and so on, but at the same time it is getting really expensive with costs of clubs doubling over the last few years, same with memberships and so on, plus the biggest issue is that at any club, on the weekend when comps are being played, the old and bold still rule the place, so can be off putting as well.
Used to play weekly from 10 year old till 24. The local course I used to play is now a over grown field for dog walking. A shame because it had a great driving range, a fantastic clubhouse which was a converted farm house.
Membership was £400 for the year or £10 a round. Some cracking holes, apart from the 17th which was shite.
Moved to Rishton in 2018 and tried to take up golf again but a shoulder injury wrote off most of my chances of that, then end of last year nose surgery over winter, ready to get going a COVID struck ☹️. It was open for members only till last month and I’ve had a few solo rounds so far, nice pleasant course. £15 a round or £450 a year membership.
I once got turned away from a golf course in Huddersfield for not wearing tailored shorts. I wasn't wearing boardies or owt, just plain blue shorts.
Elitest nobs!
I've never played but I was walking across our local course on Wednesday and started eyeing up a few holes. It's very scenic and well laid out. Lots of folk use it for dog walking and running and it's great for sledging and XC skiing when conditions permit. Some nice pockets of woodland within it, housing some endangered species too.
Certainly seems to be as popular as ever with the locals and of course it's one of the visitor attractions.
like er… South Essex?
... And Basildon, Cranham, Belhus Park, Hartwood, Orsett, Dunton Hills. I like Lullingstone over in Kent best, no elitist crap on that course.
Mrs Zips sister was told off for wearing the wrong colour socks.
No need to stop cycling because of cost Klunk.
Just don’t chase the latest fashion. I stopped a while ago. It’s liberating.
I ride a secondhand 26" singlespeed with forks from 2007... so i'm not chasing anything, literally and figuratively.
@simon_g I wish I hadn't opened that link. Another reason why I miss Beckenham. I would've loved open water swimming and running routes on my doorstep. The golf course was on its arse in late 2000s. I didn't see many using it.
@spursn17 played Hartswood a few weeks ago and apart from them rebuilding the 18th it was in great condition. Astonished me given how it was a few years ago. Thousands of white leaves trees over there though, lost 2 balls on the fairway.
In case you don't know Dunton is becoming a village in the next couple of years so has had zero investment for a long time. It's appalling but for a hack about has been our only option given how busy everywhere else is.
Mardyke is a hidden gem over this way if you have never played, you suggest a few there I've not tried so thanks.
I forgot about Mardyke, that's where I ued to live as well😂
I remember when they first built it and they were trying to get members, yep, told no shorts! Only played there a couple of times.
Top Meadow in Nth Ockendon is worth a thrash around, bottom end gets a bit wet in winter though.
I used to live just outside Sunningdale - the whole area was rammed with golf courses. Used to cycle across Sunningdale and Wentworth and all the players were courteous to riders and walkers alike - it seems gone are the days that anyone within a mile of someone teeing off had to stand still for 5 minutes or face the wrath of some club elder. The average age of players seemed to be about 45 at a guess.
Played a bit in my teens, but didn’t gel with it. Found it pretty boring tbh. Local course was great for snowboarding in winter though.
I’m happy that it’s not working as a sport as it may push courses to use their land for other outdoor sports.
I think it’s more likely they’d just sell the land for housing.
I started playing when my youngest started school and I had time to kill during the day. It’s five minutes away and £300 a year. No dress code, don’t have to book a time, most people there are ordinary folk not snobs. I’ll play with my mates or by myself, doesn’t bother me. I find it quite relaxing, phone off, fresh air, exercise(ish) and a welcome break from the business of work and home life.
@ spursn17
lots of good riding in and around Lullignstone golf course . There are even some DH trails 5 miles away inside the M25. Best at night when no golfers around .
Never played as it is quite an elite sport in France . I have an english friend who plays quite a lot and he always moan that the golf was crap but he had beer and food was good .
Mrs Zips sister was told off for wearing the wrong colour socks.
I was told off for quoting Swiss Tony at the tee... It's the only one time I've played too.
"First, make sure you've a firm grasp of your equipment, making sure you're right at the top of the shaft. Then, aim for the hole but avoid the rough at all costs...."
@cchris2lou I've not ridden there, I used to ride a bit further over around Plaxtol or Meopham. Those nasty steep Kent hills used to scare me to death. Never go south of the river! 😀
I think it’s more likely they’d just sell the land for housing.
They would need planning permission first!
If they could get outline PP for houses they'd have sold up already as its way more profitable than Golf.
*inserts usual tale of his golfing story*
Was obsessed with golf (like proper obsessed) from 6years old to 17. I was an ok single figure player towards the end, played county junior level. Then I just got fed up of it, I wasn’t improving, I was bored, I got in to biking then instead.
Some of my family play to decent levels, 2 uncles are (well, were) club pros, my brother is off scratch, so is one of my cousins (who works for one of the leading waterproof/garment manufacturers) my other cousin is on the EuroPro tour. Haven’t seen that side of my family in a while so haven’t chatted to them about the game.
Two lads I used to play with (one worked for my uncle) now have a massive YouTube channel, are sponsored by Taylor Made, AP, Audi and have met and filmed vids with all the current greats. Another lad I played with is doing really well and works for some of the mags too. When I found out about them I wondered ‘what if’ but in reality I was no where near as good as them.
I’ve not picked up a club in about 20 years, I do fancy giving it a go again sometime soon.
Not too dissimilar to you Houns. Played off 2 when I was 17, then one day just got bored.
Played at the range with my lad last year and it was far from terrible within a matter of hours
As folk have mentioned above I can’t be arsed with all the formalities, I just want to rock up, smack a ball around a few holes then get off. Luckily I think there’s a local club with no dress codes etc ( I don’t think I’ve any Pringle left hidden away 😂 , mind have you seen the price of Pringle now 😧)
Don’t get me wrong, I think it was a good thing to obsessed about in my teens, kept me out of trouble, taught me a few things etc
Weeksy, and others with a similar story, try and get a copy of ‘nice jumper’ by Tom Cox, his almost identical story to mine of an obsessed teenage golfer in the 90’s
Two lads I used to play with (one worked for my uncle) now have a massive YouTube channel, are sponsored by Taylor Made, AP, Audi and have met and filmed vids with all the current greats.
Piers and Andy?
Yup, glad to see them doing so well
never played in my life but actually thinking about taking it up!
my youngest brother plays and is apparently quite good, him and our dad go for a round whenever he comes back over from Ireland. now the middle brother has taken it up and has started joining them for game too, and he goes to the range a fair bit with brother 1.. so kinda feel like i should join in?
The thing is none of them ride bikes (not proper bikes anyway) and im always of the disposition that if im afforded half a day to do what i want, id rather just go riding... and i already get grief for riding too much...
still, looks like it might be a laugh...
I hear that as of yesterday, Trump no longer plays/cheats (delete as appropriate).
I ride along a path that joins the clubhouse to the course I used to play & it’s always busy .
Packed in about 4 years ago - my mate and I could get round quite comfortably sub 3 hours with a clear run ( not rushing ) . This became rarer than rocking horse poo unfortunately & we were regularly stuck behind folk who thought that 4 -5 hours was what you do & never ever thought about letting us play through . Just ended up saying sod it