[Closed] Do you put your children on social media?

'Cos you might not want people to know where you and they live / hang out?

oh god someone might see I went to the park with my kids.

I said that the dissemination of information we now have with the internet

has changed since the 1970's
Because it has.

Your point is caller?

This thread is about the safety of children. Some people think that putting pictures of their children on the internet increases the risk of them being targeted for abuse. Maybe.

My point is that there is no real increase in risk to children than there was in the 60's, 70's, 80's etc. However, parents now wrap their kids up in cotton wool and do not allow them to do things by themselves.

You will, however, note that [s]a lot of child abuse[/s]everything is in some way connected to the internet.

Why would you want to tell the world that you went to the park with your kids?

They're not. They're telling their friends and family what they have been up to.

Your point is caller?

Some people think that putting pictures of their children on the internet increases the risk of them being targeted for abuse. Maybe.

Feel free to continue to misquote me and answer your own questions if you wish.

oh god someone might see I went to the park with my kids.

Look, this is the point:

Some aspects of data relating to your personal life are best not put online if possible. IDGAF if you went to the park with your kids, and I doubt Gary Glitter is following your every move with EXIF Data.

However, spear phishing and other targeted data collection/social engineering techniques rely on using accumulation of data to generate trust through the regurgitation of this data in a way that fools the target into a trust escalation.

This is well known stuff, right? My point is just that through limiting the leaking of this data you [relatively] easily prevent this from happening or at least minimise the chances. Sensible precautions.

I didn't say the whole 2010+ world is full of kiddie fiddlers or any of that other stuff. I said that controlling the data, the access to the data [privacy settings etc] and the dissemination of images and other information that is easily and practicably done is a worthwhile and sensible approach.

Do you throw your credit card statements in the bin? Do you not shield your PIN? These are the sort of reasonable things of minimal effort that I am equating this to.

IMHO if you don't take reasonable steps to protect your privacy and that of your family online you're somewhat foolish.

Have you seen the number of people having CC misused, identity theft etc?

I'm not going to argue the point any more - this is my opinion; that's all.

[img] [/img]

However, spear phishing and other targeted data collection/social engineering techniques rely on using accumulation of data to generate trust through the regurgitation of this data in a way that fools the target into a trust escalation.

So you put photos of your kids at the park, tagged with GPS EXIF data and the next thing you know, you are sending £100k to a Nigerian Prince?

OP,

I would not put anything online public or not to minimise another worry in life.

Your children so do as you see fit and if you are not comfortable then tell them you do not want them to be shown to the world.

Others will not see your children as dear as their own so you need to make that decision yourself.

😮

Haven't you got anything better to do today mate, go outside or something?

I am outside. It's lovely. Just finished tidying my shed.

gofasterstripes - Member

Look, this is the point:

I'm totally paranoid

I'm not going to argue the point any more - this is my opinion; that's all.

here is my eldest son on his BMX - your head may explode

[img] [/img]

My lad has his own cycling blog, he's been on telly and has been interviewed on a couple of other bike websites.

Can't say we've had any dealings with weirdos.

gofasterstripes - Member
Haven't you got anything better to do today mate, go outside or something?

If you are referring to me then I have a question.

😆 If you look into the mirror what do you see? 😆

I am making Korean style veg fermentation so I have to prepare everything from scratch and will take several hours. Probably until mid night ...

What are you doing?

😆

No not you dude, you're not trying to troll me, you just posted a second before me

As you were.

you're not trying to troll me

Neither was I.

I was just fascinated by this you wrote:-

generate trust through the regurgitation of this data in a way that fools the target into a trust escalation.

You don't happen to sell IT security systems or training do you?

gofasterstripes - Member

No not you dude, you're not trying to troll me, you just posted a second before me

As you were.

No. I'm a student designer and general geek.

I really don't see why you're arguing with me, if you really think pravacy online is irrelevant, you're crazy.

I suggested a pragmatic and moderate approach and you're trying to take the piss.

Enjoy, I'm off.

To be honest, you're a pretty crap nonce if you need to analyse EXIF data in order to work out that a park might contain children. About the only thing you're going to gain from looking at pictures on the Internet is not getting stuck with an ugly one.

More seriously; the dissemination of information is a valid point. I don't think Stranger Danger (or Weird Uncle Brian Danger) is particularly greater than it was decades ago, but perhaps pertinent is that we're so much better at reporting it. This is a double edged sword; it means that allegations are taken more seriously and arrests are easier, but it also means that parents are whipped up daily into a paranoid frenzy by the red-tops.

I hate to break it to all the parents here but no one really gives a shit about a pictures of your kids on the interweb except you, and maybe there grand parents.

There is 350 million photos uploaded to Facebook every day, not taking into account the rest of the web seriously NO ONE CARES!. 😀

Even if you on a photographers web site, there is no way of finding out who the photo are of and where they were taken and to be honest if anyone get's past the first 5 images of a slideshow showing multiple images on photographer web site the photographer is A) doing well, B) usually showing wedding photos.

Relax, seriously no one cares 🙂

gofasterstripes - Member

However, spear phishing and other targeted data collection/social engineering techniques rely on using accumulation of data to generate trust through the regurgitation of this data in a way that fools the target into a trust escalation.

Ok, firstly, I'm not trolling you.

But I'd like you to explain, in specific terms, what harm having pictures of my child online will cause (either me or my child)

I'm not saying you are wrong, but that quote above means nothing to me, it sounds like a scaremongering sales pitch full of meaningless buzzwords if I'm honest.

I am making Korean style veg fermentation so I have to prepare everything from scratch and will take several hours. Probably until mid night ...

Gangham?

OK - one last time I'll try to put my point across.

No - posting photos etc does not mean your child is more of a target, however:

The more information is freely available online, the more someonone who wants to cause mischief in any way is able to use that information.

Scenario: [We're talking about a young child here]
There's a local nonce and they decide to try and target a local child. They use some available information to help make this happen.

Publicly viewable images of the child on a social media outlet give away the child's friends, hobbies and names. They show that the child has routinely been to a local park on a wednesday pm, and also where [exactly] they live.

Other connected and un-restricted accounts give away the child's parents names, and family relations.

Perv then decides to put all this together, they target the park on the times they know the kid is there. They are able to get a minute to talk to the kid introduce themselves and plant the idea they're known to the family by using/regurgitating information they have gathered. Let's say they pick up the ball and return it, the parents don't notice much as this sort of thing happens when the kid boots the ball too far and they get a few seconds to plant the idea.

One day, the nonce parks a van right next to the park and is able to use the information they have collected to escalate the trust the kid has [kid knows not to talk to strangers, obvs] but this person knows all about them, says the name of the family members, recent events etc etc and is able to walk quickly away with the child, not protesting as they think it's OK, friend of the father or somesuch. In the van, and gone.

TL;DR:

Stranger danger, but in this case the person has a huge amount of extra information available to help the appear not a stranger and to target and refine the plan.

Now, I am not saying this is common, and I am not saying don't let your kid out of sight. Hell, I'm 31, and I grew up in the middle of nowhere playing outside any hours I wanted.
All I am saying is that [b]why give away this information easily? [/b]

Like shredding your credit card bills, just don't publicly post detailed personal information you can remove. That's it. That's why even Windows has a [url= http://www.howtogeek.com/203592/what-is-exif-data-and-how-to-remove-it/ ]built-in tool[/url] to remove EXIF data

[img] [/img]

This is just one scenario, there are others [ever used your mother's maiden name on a password recovery form?]

All this personal historical data is now available online.

[url= http://lifehacker.com/why-social-engineering-should-be-your-biggest-security-1630321227 ]Article on social engineering.[/url]

Or they just go to a park where they know kids play, no clever Spooks style breaking the code stuff just drive to a park.

I am not saying this is common,

I'd be curious to know how common it is, actually. I mean, I'm sure it's possible and I'm no expert on the inner workings of the mind of your average kiddie-fiddler, but it seems a heck of a lot of effort. Has it [i]ever[/i] happened?

@neilglover

However, spear phishing and other targeted data collection/social engineering techniques rely on using accumulation of data to generate trust through the regurgitation of this data in a way that fools the target into a trust escalation.

Sorry that's not clear dude, I probably do spend too much time being geeky, lost my touch.

Phishing is "angling for information" - usually in the form of RANDOMLY ADDRESSED emails or e-comms trying to trick you into giving away personal information:
Dear Mr Firth, your ebay password needs to be updated - click here and enter a new one
*sender then nabs your password with a fake site and orders 2,000 tangfastics to his PO box*

Spear Phishing is using a targeted approach to phishing by also using other information you have about the person. This usually requires an escalation of the trust of the target by presenting information to them that they think should only be in the hands of people they already trust. Put enough of it together and it's likely that more will come your way....
Dear Mr Firth, seeing as you recently bought a new house, click here and we'll give you a lower house insurance quote
[person then reuses a password and/or enters additional data beyond what the phisher has [only email, name and that you bought a house last week]]
*sender takes out loan in cash using this information*

Now - of course these are not watertight examples, any more than the one above about the kids is, but this is what I was thinking of, and it's what IMHO is the risk of this un-considered dissemination of data.

As before - I suggest you only take simple precautions.

Dear Mr Firth, seeing as you recently bought a new house, click here and we'll give you a lower house insurance quote

Well that information is in the public domain anyway. All you need is the Land Registry and the Electoral Register to establish someones name, address and when they bought their house.

It's a bit like people who are paranoid about people knowing their bank account number and sort code, if you pay somebody by cheque they would have it anyway.

In all honesty you have to be pretty dumb to fall for phishing emails, spear ones or otherwise.

@Cougar/Drac - it't not spooks though is it? It's YOU using social media and uploading of data, not hacking.

It's easy stuff.

Has it ever happened - well, nowhere nearly as often as the gutter press would like you to believe, but I think it has, yes. Hence bothering to post this.

It has certainly happened in cases of child abuse, though that probably didn't start with a photo being uploaded, but with contact and grooming leading to trust escalation and the child voluntarily going to meet the person.

I literally can't write any more about this, partly because I have a bike review to write and partly because it seems that no-one is going to even grudgingly suggest I may have a point.

However, I apologise for being grumpy, it's not very [url= http://dudeism.com/ ]dude-like[/url] of me.

you have to be pretty dumb to fall for phishing emails

Proves my point about no-one even considering my POV. Millions of people do, thousands every day. If you think you'll never make a mistake then you'll definitely make one.

That's not how nonces/pervs (insert alternate choice of phrase here) generally work.

As Drac suggests, they really don't need to. Most child abuse happens either in the childs immediate family, or by a person that already has trust, teacher, scout leader, vicar, etc. There's a reason they look for jobs that put them in places of trust around kids...

trawling the internets is a) too much like hard work, and b) don't need to: kids go to school, they are there from 8-3 mon-fri.

It's easy stuff.

I wasn't being serious. Ermmmm! Dude.

It has certainly happened in cases of child abuse, though that probably didn't start with a photo being uploaded, but with contact and grooming leading to trust escalation and the child voluntarily going to meet the person.

Of course. But that's a child being groomed on the Internet by nature of them being, y'know, on the Internet. It's not really the same thing.

I don't disagree in principle, and keeping personal details personal is good general advice. But this seems like much ado about nothing to me, really.

Sorry that's not clear dude, I probably do spend too much time being geeky, lost my touch.

Thanks for the explanation, although I do already know what those terms mean.

They still require explanation in context to make sense of the overall statement, and determine wether it's valid or not.

As I said ....

But I'd like you to explain, in specific terms, what harm having pictures of my child online will cause (either me or my child)

No, sorry I can't be bothered any more.

I get it, it's not a big risk. OK.

I don't even have kids!

No, sorry I can't be bothered anymore.

Well that was all a bit pointless then wasn't it.

I wasn't being critical, I just didn't understand how your posts were specifically relevant to the subject being discussed (but presumed you did understand it)

I really don't understand what you don't understand.

All information is valuable, anything you share shares information. With small children you are sharing their information, without their consent, and exposing their data and this can lead to that data being used to harm them.

Within the photograph is information as an image and as metadata.

Control access to it.

If the bit you don't understand is how leaking data can be harmful, just read the article I'm going to link to next

badllama - Member

I hate to break it to all the parents here but no one really gives a shit about a pictures of your kids on the interweb except you, and maybe there grand parents.

There is 350 million photos uploaded to Facebook every day, not taking into account the rest of the web seriously NO ONE CARES!.

convert
I refer you to my original question - 'What do all the worriers think might happen to a photo like that published without identity on a photographer's site that will in some way affect the baby in question? Where do you think the abuse will come from?'

I'm getting the impression that people who think there's nothing to worry about think that I am stupid for being cautious about this. To clarify, I'm not worried about online paedos pumping suggestive gasses through the keyboard. I'll tell you a story.

My niece is about 14. When she was 9 she started to become the victim of fairly concerted online bullying. Simple fix you might say, remove her internet access. This is exactly what her parents did. This meant she was subject to further bullying (which all of her friends told her about). The bullying was mainly about her height (she's very small for her age). Now she's starting to go to teenage discos and this bullying has become actual physical violence along with her being called a slut and a whore, all orchestrated and conducted via social media.

My worry is that unlike me or many of you, our children won't be able to carefully pick and choose what to share and not to share if their entire life since birth has been online. Kids can be cruel, I don't want them to be bullied because of embarrassing pictures I posted of them before they could walk or talk, nor do I want them to be refused a job interview because I slated a company online....hyperbole.

When I started on messages boards, then forums, then myspace etc there's no way I would have imagined that Facebook would be something everywhere, connected to everthing, in my phone, sending messages, making calls. Police using it for psa's, people reporting and commiting crimes with it, employers checking prospective employees, it's reach is endless and none of us can foresee how pervasive it'll be when my daughter is my nieces age.

With facial recognition, targeted adds, and the potentially limitless ways social media might expand I am going to remain cautious. I posted this because I was curious to hear other people's thoughts on it, and it has been interesting.

http://lifehacker.com/why-social-engineering-should-be-your-biggest-security-1630321227

My daughter was bullied online. We closed he Instagram account, well she did herself, then set up a new one she kept her friends closer. We also messaged the other parents to let them know what had happened. We weren't cross as kids bully kids but we resolved it.

That said she was 11 before we allowed her own social network account.

For someone with such paranoia and claiming to be careful Sam, you were easy to find details on.

For someone with such paranoia and claiming to be careful Sam, you were easy to find details on.

I'm not remotely paranoid of my online information because I am careful to use only [i]controlled[/i] information. But then that's a choice I make, I am not a child who's folks are posting my information without my consent.

Actually I [i]deliberately [/i]use the same details across the internet, and the same username on every site, forum and page I use [except eBay] and my real name in full wherever possible.

I have been undertaking this deliberately as a social experiment and have been doing this for 10+ years. Google knows a lot about me, you probably know a lot about me.

[b]But only what I want you to know.[/b]

Jeez, this is about babies,by your own actions Drac,you are mocking GFS by using his data!Why is it that someone who is concerned is paranoid,but those who do not see anything wrong are normal?

No I'm not divenwob.

The topic has some what moved on since the original post if you bother to read.

As a responsible adult and parent I'm happy to share pics of my kids online. My kids love to see their pics on there, the only if there is and some crap exit data depending on the sight. It is of no use at all to anyone and really it's not an issue.

I just find it so odd that someone who has come across so hard about protecting data shares so much intimation. Funnily enough he does it in the same way as everyone else has stated.

With small children you are sharing their information, without their consent, and exposing their data and this can lead to that data being used to harm them.

How?

How is a picture I post on Facebook going to do that ?

(I do everything without my sons consent. He's 5 weeks old, so it will remain that way for quite some time I would imagine)

Why would you want to tell the world that you went to the park with your kids?

You clearly have more friends than me.

Drac,I dont think he is talking about his own data as he seems old enough to make a choice.
For someone with such paranoia and claiming to be careful Sam, you were easy to find details on.
What is that about?
I have been watching this thread all day thank you.

It's entirely believable this thread has turned out this way.

Anyhow, congrats to Neal(argumentative ****er)Glover 🙂

Top marks Bn! Have you considered palm reading? 😀

Well I guess you missed a few posts then.

There was a good read on reddit couple of months ago, on the /r/parenting group someone asked advice after they had been confronted by a relative. The relative expressed their concerns about a series of photos of the infants in the bath had been posted to social media. It was inappropriate and should be stopped.

The highest upvoted comment of the bunch was something like this:

"It is of the utmost concern that you have decided that innocent family photographs have some sort of sexual undertone. We ask you to maintain a respectful distance from our children and understand if we decide that we do not wish you to be alone with them."

Be risk averse by all means, but you better be sure you are emailing those grandparents great piles of pictures if you aren't lucky enough to be nearby.

Anyhow, congrats to Neal(argumentative ****er)Glover

Many thanks 😉

Although I have to say, in this particular case, I'm not posting to be argumentative in the slightest.

As a new parent I am genuinely interested if there is some (genuine) danger that I have missed or am unaware of.

Which is why I was asking for specific dangers, rather than general "internet data safety" stuff about bank details and phishing emails.

From what has been posted so far regarding specific dangers (nothing), I'm perfectly happy to post pictures of mini-me online without worrying (apart from not having his written consent obviously, that's a slight concern 😉 )

(Edit: now I think about it, he did literally wee in my shoes yesterday, maybe that's his way of letting me know ?)

The highest upvoted comment of the bunch was something like this:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/may/13/at-what-age-should-you-control-your-online-identity

The results of this will be of interest to the readers of this thread.