[Closed] Divining does it work?

Total woo.

100% definitely works. Definitely.

Did a year of leakage detection for south staffs and the old hand guys all used them and they were more accurate and faster than the proper equipment and they used the proper stuff afterwards for audit purposes.

The old boy who I bought my house off worked for the water board part of this job was finding sources and leaks, he used divining rods. He left them in the shed when he moved and was quite upset about it as he made them himself, they were metal ones, so I callled around with them.

Not sure if this link will work:

I wouldn't of thought a leaking drainage pipe would cause a saturated lawn, as they rarely have the pressure to make much difference to how wet the surrounding ground is.

Depending on when the house was built, gutters used to just feed into a basic soak away, so could just be poor drainage in general. It could even just be poor drainage in general.

If it never used to be as wet, it's more likely to be a burst mains pipe. I know somebody who had a continually wet area in his lawn, and he just put it down to location. It was only when his neighbours lost water pressure, and the water company investigated, they traced it to leak under the lawn that had finally got bad enough to cause problems. Off course, they fixed that leak, then the pipe burst elsewhere, so in the end they had to replace the entire pipe.

They did it live on air on Jeremy Vine a couple of months ago and, amusingly, it did work!

Total woo.  They did tests where people were asked to work out where water was and where it wasn't.  No-one found it.

If it did work then we'd be all over it for finding all sorts of stuff, especially oil.

FWIW as a complete cynical sceptic I have tried it.

It does work, I've absolutely no idea how it works as I can't see any logical, scientific reason, but it does absolutely work.

Old guy showed me how to use a couple of bent welding rods. Cured my scepticism.

*chortles heartily at people saying it works*

its total rubbish ffs.

Another total sceptic who tried it begrudgingly, I have no idea what makes them move, it certainly wasn’t me.

edit to add, I still don’t believe them, just haven’t a clue what made the wires twitch and cross

https://www.csicop.org/si/show/testing_dowsing_the_failure_of_the_munich_experiments

It does work, so pffft to nealglover

I have no idea what makes them move, it certainly wasn’t me.

its almost certainly was.

But either way, it wasn’t underground water that made them move.

If you know where the leak is it works very well.

It does work, so pffft to nealglover

.... and science.

Nope it doesnt*.

* with the caveat it might seem to work by the user subconsciously picking up on cues where water is and moving the rods in response. For example subtle dips in the land or greener grass could all indicate water.

Same camp as homeopathy, plenty of anecdotes and very little evidence.

”Old bob swore by it” is not evidence.

First go I held them loosely, walked for a bit they turned. Second go, I held them pinched tight between fingers to try and resist any movement (I really wanted to prove that they wouldn’t move), I walked, they turned with some force.

The idiomotor effect is the explanation of why the wires move. Basically it’s you but you don’t know that it’s you.

In my experiemce it totally works for finding larger pipes, not sure for something small

In any event you have to believe though. Burnt out sparklers, welding rods or coat hangers are your friend.

Water, especially running water, is a very good conduit for energy.

Just because science hasn't been able to measure this energy, does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist. I mean, all of everything existed before human science said it did.

I hope nealglover, jumbo and the other dogmatics learn to be excited about the unknown, unseen and entirely possible within an infinite Universe of infinite possibilities.

Peace out

😎

I for one get very excited about the unknown but just because there are things that are unknown doesn’t mean you get to make shit up.

It’s been tested and it’s always failed the tests ergo it’s woo.

There's enough science to get excited about without making rubbish up.

very little evidence.

On the contrary, there's plenty of evidence that it does not work.

There was a minor twitter storm last year after many water companies admitted to using diving rods, despite the scientific evidence that it does not work:

https://medium.com/@sallylepage/in-2017-uk-water-companies-still-rely-on-magic-6eb62e036b02

I’ll add to the anecdotes - tried it and it ‘worked’ when tracing a FW pipe through a paddock. I’m prepared to accept it was my subconscious at work, but it was a bit of fun to save digger time.

Water, especially running water, is a very good conduit for energy.

Just because science hasn’t been able to measure this energy, does not necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. I mean, all of everything existed before human science said it did.

I hope nealglover, jumbo and the other dogmatics learn to be excited about the unknown, unseen and entirely possible within an infinite Universe of infinite possibilities.

Peace out

Wanna buy some bomb detectors?

R

Water, especially running water, is a very good conduit for energy.

Just because science hasn’t been able to measure this energy, does not necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. I mean, all of everything existed before human science said it did.

If the force is great enough to move two metal rods it would be easy to measure.

😃

Jeez, dogma is dogma. Thankfully there are plenty of open minded scientific researchers.

🙏

I don’t know how it works, but two separate blokes I worked with had different sets and were very accurate, results were checked afterwards with the device that we were surposed to use (can’t remember the name of it now) and it matched up every time.

They made their own too, one was an old metal coat hanger, not sure about the other one.

Wow, sizeable proportion of posters actually believe this works.  Says a lot about the level of intelligence on here.

It works for me, but then I may be an old witch...

😆 @ angeldust. Depends upon what type of intelligence you're referring to; but yes, it does give an indication of something.

Thankfully there are plenty of open minded scientific researchers.

So do you have any who have carried out a properly controlled experiment which supports divining?

Divining has been researched and hasnt been supported.

A good example of a properly open minded scientific researcher is Susan Blackmore. She started off believing in psychic phenomenon due to personal experience. However after several years where her properly designed and controlled experiments failed to support her initial hypothesis she reconsidered her beliefs.

Indeed, yet there are people who say they have experienced the same and proved positive. Sample size I guess.

Amusingly, some of the earlier posts from people who are cynical/sceptical about water divining and yet when they tried it, found the approach to work with accuracy, they mentioned it must have been their subconscious operating, in a subconscious way that enabled them to interpret the rods.

Its like, almost, psychic phenomenon, maybe?

The British army tried using dowsers in WW II in the desert campaign. They found nothing. Just as well they also had a geologist on hand too.

Indeed, yet there are people who say they have experienced the same and proved positive.

They also say that expensive speaker cables really open up the soundstage.

Wessex Water seem to think that it works, as I've witnessed their staff wandering around paddocks with coat hangers.

They found the leak.

Wessex Water seem to think that it works, as I’ve witnessed their staff wandering around paddocks with coat hangers.

They found the leak.

A friend's baby stopped teething after they bought her an amber necklace.

Sample size I guess.

Nope. That that is your guess says a lot. The key factor would be a properly designed experiment.

For example, I am not the greatest naturalist in the world, but if you found someone truly shit I could quite easily convince them that I could dowse effectively since whilst I am not the best at spotting them I do know some of the more subtle signs for finding water.

Divining has been researched and hasnt been supported.

Wanna buy some magic beans?

I worked for Welsh Water way back when. Good plans and detectors were the way mains and sewers were found. As for small sources, the catchments and aquifers were my concern - a geologist. Reading the landscape, types of vegetation, lie of the land outcrops and aerial photographs were better than divining rods.

I was also a caver at the time with Aberystwyth caving club. On the 1985 Summer "expedition" to Clare we spent a day looking for a new cave system. A few of us were geologists so headed for the shale-limestone boundary. I found a sink and made the first descent of:

There are many many other interacting factors at play.

What are they? Why can't they be measured in an experiment?

What are they? Why can’t they be measured in an experiment?

They’re shy.

I hope nealglover, jumbo and the other dogmatics learn to be excited about the unknown, unseen and entirely possible within an infinite Universe of infinite possibilities.

If you are open to the idea of infinite possibilities, them one of those possibilities must surely be that dowsing does not work?

People are not casually dismissing dowsing because they are dogmatic. There is no evidence from properly designed testing to support the idea that humans can locate water by dowsing. That doesn't mean that science says it is impossible. As you suggested, everything is possible. However, if no one has managed to do a robust experiment that demonstrates it works, it's reasonable to assume that possibility is very, very, very unlikely.

That's the beauty and excitement of proper science. It's the opposite of dogma.

lol, all that proves is that it doesn’t work in a controlled environment, which is **** obvious. There are many many other interacting factors at play

No it isnt obvious. You will need to explain why this phenomenon doesnt work in a controlled environment.

For example if we take slackalices initial explanation it was that water is a very good conduct for energy. If that is the basis for the dowsing rods to react then there is no reason (unless you have a trickster god playing games) that it wouldnt work in a controlled environment.

If on the other hand, as I have already commented, that the movement of the dowsing rod is dependant on someones response to subconscious cues then it would stop working.

The problem with the latter case is it will only work in certain circumstances with someone who has the experience. That person doing it consciously would almost certainly be more competent.

I'm finding quoting on here impossible with an iPad, so I just hope the speaker cables aren't immersed in water.

Lucky for the 8th Army also, that they figured out what Oasis' were above 😉 Perhaps they had a botanist as well?

Is the essence of science, curiosity?

Discuss if you like, although it could make a good thread.

Edit: Having just caught up on the last few posts, I think the more observant of you will have noticed that I've neither supported or opposed whether diving works.

What is not amusing me is trying to type in an ever moving text box. This site update is truly pants.

Well it may be bollocks in itself, but given that we need water to not die, and we've been on this planet a little while, maybe the rods just amplify our innate 'there be water there' twitch?

Yes it does work but the diviner has to be on a low carb diet. In the meantime I shall pray for the unenlightened.

If you take all the microchips out of your phone, guess what, it won’t work! So I’ve scientifically proved that phones don’t work, right?

No, you have demonstrated that a mobile phone without microchips doesn't work. It's a valid experiment, but probably not going to win you any Nobel prizes.

Yes it does work but the diviner has to be on a low carb diet.

Only if you use directional rods.

How is this tricky to understand? "Experienced surveyor uses subconscious cues and ideomotor effect to identify water source" doesn't sound exciting but it's how the silly sticks move. Not difficult but not "magic energy" either. Anyone using it to trace a pipe that doesn't leak is talking bollocks though...

I was sceptical that so many people on here believe it needs imaginary pixies to guide the rods, but then again stupidity obviously isn't confined to Brexit voters.

This thread explains a lot about this forum

Is the essence of science, curiosity?

Discuss if you like, although it could make a good thread.

yep. Which is why numerous studies have been carried out and all comprehensively failed to show any better success than chance.

How many more studies would it take for you to believe it’s not true?

Who’s the dogmatic one?

Any thread that involves dogma of any sort = the same result.

Tested and proven in established testing environment and conditions. Science fact that is.

Not one pixie was harmed either.

As you are.

Next time I read a thread where people are spouting complete nonsense and steadfastly won’t accept a scientifically sound statement, I’ll think of this thread and think twice about bothering to contribute.  No point arguing with idiots etc etc 😜

Don’t all rush over at once, but someone has just put up for sale some magic beans over in classified.

Any thread that involves dogma of any sort = the same result.

If nothing else works, a total pigheaded unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

If divining was such a success, then shirley those that practice it would be able to forecast or predict the money markets and seek a more financially secure lifestyle than walking around a field in wellies smelling of cow shit, whilst cloaked in a grey beard, a hooded trench coat, some crystals hanging from a chain around their necks, covered in symbolic tattooed symbols, whilst facing East and waiting for the sun to rise on the solstice..

Shear bunkum and yet you pay these people your hard earned cash to walk amongst the general public..

If divining was such a success, then shirley those that practice it would be able to forecast or predict the money markets

Jibes aside for a moment, is anyone above that thinks divining works, either a scientist, or have genuine scientific training (let’s say degree level or above in a genuine science, as a minimum exposure to genuine scientific understanding)?  If yes, what discipline do you work in?

I’m just finding the ideomotor effect interesting, never come across it before, shall read up on it when I’m more awake. As I mentioned, the second time I had a go I really wanted to prove the dowser bloke wrong so I gripped the rods tight and tried to resist the twisting motion when it started, so I was actively thinking to myself ‘do not twist’, I’m intrigued to find out more so I can figure out why my brain still made those things turn

I find the larger placebo pills work better.

So have you changed your mind on this over the course of the thread?

Me? No, as stated before I don’t believe in it (for finding water or anything else) I just didn’t know what caused the rods to turn in my hand

Crikey, that's being really resolute Houns, you're nearly as good as me 😂

What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning.

courtesy of a Werner Heisenberg

No doubt some smart Alec will be along to dismiss this seemingly eminent theoretical physicist and his pioneering work in quantum mechanics. He reckoned if you kept looking, you'll find God too.

Like, wow!

Gripping them too hard?

If you backtrack any quicker slackalice you might turn back time like Christoper Reeves did in Superman I.

dismiss this seemingly eminent theoretical physicist and his pioneering work in quantum mechanics.

Drug dealing scum 😉

Tested and proven in established testing environment and conditions. Science fact that is.

So the interesting thing is that not only has every properly conducted experiment proven that it does not work, science can also explain why it appears to work (a combination of the ideomotor effect and confirmation bias).

Until recently there was $1m up for grabs for anyone who could prove that it did work - all you had to do was arrange your "established testing environment and conditions" into a properly conducted experiment.  Yet even with $1m at stake, nobody could do it.

wtf? In the same way that being good on an MTB also makes you an expert particle physicist? How are they even related?! Some proper nonsense being spouted by the sheeple on this thread, great for a Friday night laugh! Keep it up lads

We will, you seem stuck in the age of mystics and warlocks..

Carry on, we need to out each one of you.

I personally think it’s an idiomotor response. However, my father in law who worked in farming and building in rural Cornwall for 50 years recounts stories of the local dowser who had a good living finding water sources and digging wells. I suspect he just knew where the groundwater was in the local area.

What I find less easy to explain is that if my father in law draws an imaginary line in the garden (can’t be seen) my wife can find it with dowsing rods. If he draws several lines she can find them, but if he crosses one out and she doesn’t know which one, then she can’t detect it.

I tell them it’s a scam they’re playing on me, but I honestly don’t think it is...  I can’t make the damn things work for me.

Another total sceptic who tried it begrudgingly, I have no idea what makes them move, it certainly wasn’t me.

edit to add, I still don’t believe them, just haven’t a clue what made the wires twitch and cross

I could not be more sceptical either, but was shown and tried it once too. I am unsure if they moved towards water, but definitely felt like they moved of their own accord. I do not know what was going on, but I left bemused.

lol, all that proves is that it doesn’t work in a controlled environment, which is **** obvious. There are many many other interacting factors at play. If you take all the microchips out of your phone, guess what, it won’t work! So I’ve scientifically proved that phones don’t work, right? You couldn’t make it up 😂

I can explain really easily why my phone doesn’t work if I take all the important parts out of it.

Can you explain why people with bent metal rods have never managed to get it to work for an organised scientific audience?

(Its a rhetorical question. Of course you can’t)

I tell them it’s a scam they’re playing on me, but I honestly don’t think it is

You need to set up a proper experiment. Something along the lines of:

Observer one watches your FIL place the lines and records it (with your wife and observer two nowhere in sight). Ensure the line position is chosen randomly and definitely not by FIL.

Observer two watches your wife find them (with FIL and observer one nowhere in sight)

Repeat multiple times with only those people involved eg you cant watch throughout.  Oh and make sure the observers arent bribeble/find it funny to confuse you.

If you get it properly blinded then you will probably end up with a good test.

I've done it twice. Worked both times. Dunno why.

But do you believe it worked through some energy as yet undetectable to known science, or by luck, or some unrelated factor (subconsious influence by the user)?