can someone kindly ask the vatican to wake up and smell my finger - dumbfux
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8601084.stm
religion and anything to do with it is a load of old festering shyte.
on the same level of uselessness as football. 8)
what ton said +1
Classic defence. Accuse the people accusing you of any even greater crime...
I think 'supporting' football teams is what you mean, Ton. football is a fun, skill based activity that can keep you fit just like biking.
Ironic that both the Vatican and Israel should play the victim card to justify abuses 🙁
GW...............yes.
Practically every international war ever fought has had some religious connection, and practically every major ruck locally I have ever seen was related to football so agree with ton!
religion and anything to do with it is a load of old festering shyte.
on the same level of uselessness as wriggle & run.
😉
Practically every international war ever fought has had some religious connection
I think that's too vague a statement to be useful. Neither world war was particularly religiously motivated
Those members of the central governing body of the Roman Catholic Church who are or have been wilfully blind to child sex offences or even more heinous, have actively concealed allegations of this sort, are as bad if not worse than the actual perpetrators. How this corrupt, venal, miserable consortium of motley loonies and criminals can still gather and retain followers is staggering beyond words.
I’d like to see the ECHR invoked in some shape or form so as to enable the appropriate authorities the power in law to shine a big sweeping light into the sinister and shadowed recesses of the Vatican ... and on its denizens. As for Benedict visiting England - I don’t want that man anywhere near my country. And I’m disgusted with the head of the Church of England, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, who said the visit would be an opportunity to "cement ties" between the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian churches in the United Kingdom. How indelicate a statement to make at this time. Just goes to show ... although they hold slightly different incoherent imaginings they're all cut of the same cloth.
Thats an awful thing to say Possibly prosecutable.
the Jews did not take everyones money, start WW2 or crucify Christ.
Many catholic priests were involved in kiddyfiddling and then covering it up. It might have been endemic in the system. it might have been that kiddyfiddlers joined the church to get their opportunities..
I sincerely hope he is censured for saying that. He needs to go to Auschwitz and pay penance
[url= http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/8360/ ]Nothing like a secular humanist to shine some light on the darkest recesses of middle class British bigotry.[/url]
Get a grip saxonrider. There was far more than this going on. Systemic abuse and cover up.
religion and anything to do with it is a load of old festering shyte.
What an ignorant thing to say. Just about every society and culture on Earth has been shaped and defined by religions. Some of the most spectacular structures on Earth have been built in the name of religion. Language, Law and Philosophy has much to thank religion for.
It's the interpretation and corruption of religion, that causes the trouble. If you actually take the time to analyse religions, most advocate peace and cooperation between people. Religions have brought stability and peace to countries, regions and even continents.
Might not be your cup of tea, but you wouldn't live in the society you do, bound by it's institutions of Law, Order, Social Organisation and Education, without religion.
I don’t want that man anywhere near my country
It's not 'your' country. Some of it's citizens might want to see the Pope. As long as he's not committed any offence which would deny him entry to the UK, he's as free as anyone, to come here.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the former Hitler Youth member, or a Catholic, but I do try to respect others and their beliefs. Would be nicer if more folk felt the same... 🙁
This whole affair is utterly disgusting, mind. I think the Vatican should get their own house in order, before they preach to others. Is this the beginning of the End for the Catholic Church? It doesn't seem to be particularly progressive, and numbers are dwindling, apparently.
Power Corrupts..
TandemJeremy - Member
Get a grip saxonrider. There was far more than this going on. Systemic abuse and cover up.
Did you actually manage to read the entire article?
I didn't think so.
Shall I have another beer?
Hmm...
Oh go on then! 😀
Got a feeling this thread will get deleted when mark wakes up.
Can't see why. Nowt really offensive about it, just folk expressing their views, and a bit of fair debate/discussion.
Deluded;
although they hold slightly different incoherent imaginings they're all cut of the same cloth.
Apt user name there fella.
Saxonrider
I read most of it - as much as I could stomach. Its an dreadful analysis of the situation and a belittling of the victims. Are you intending that we should believe that load of garbage?
The whole tone of that article is dreadful.
............Personally, I'm not a fan of the former Hitler Youth member, or a Catholic, but I do try to respect others and their beliefs
What an ignorant thing to say
Except those who you are disagreeing with on this [s]fred[/s] sorry, thread.
#
Buzzlightyear - MemberGot a feeling this thread will get deleted when mark wakes up.
Posted 9 hours ago # Report-Post
#
Talkemada - MemberCan't see why. Nowt really offensive about it, just folk expressing their views, and a bit of fair debate/discussion.
... and I haven't said anything...
From the link [i]"Nothing like a secular humanist to shine some light on the darkest recesses of middle class British bigotry" [/i]
Which leads to [i] http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/8360/ [/i] and an article called "Why humanists shouldn’t join in this Catholic-bashing"
Comes this little gem . . .
"When considering the problem of child sexual abuse by Catholic priests, it is important to distinguish between the incidents themselves, some of which were of course horrific . . . "
???? WTF??
So "some" of the indicent were horrific? And the others? They were just a bit of a laugh were they?
I think the whole issue is disgusting, and I think there's more to come out yet 🙁
Except those who you are disagreeing with
I respect people's beliefs; I don't necessarily have to respect ignorance, intolerance, narrow-mindedness and bigotry.
If someone says 'I believe in this, as it gives me happiness and solace', I'll respect them. If someone attacks someone else without respect for their beliefs, I see that as intolerance. I don't see why intolerance should be respected.
Cleared that up for you?
Perfectly clear, you won't tolerate intolerance.
Welcome back.
Perfectly clear, you won't tolerate intolerance.
No, I said I won't respect it. There's a difference. 😉
Eostre. Time for some elderly cross-dressers to have a girly spat.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8601381.stm
I think the mistake the Vatican has made, is that instead of condemning these acts, and those that have committed them, as unholy and going to Hell, they've been quite weak and feeble, simply saying 'oh it's not very nice' and apologising to those affected. Pathetic. Totally undermines their position of power and influence, and is utterly hypocritical.
By being a Catholic does this mean the faithful condone what this senior person and others come out with?
Hora,no it does not.That is why there is a fuss about the half-apology and the various cover-ups.Speaking as a sort-of Baptist,there is nothing but disgust about the whole issue.Another thing to remember is that Catholics have children too,(lots if they listen to the flak gunner)I would think that they will be less than impressed at the way it has been handled by the Vatican.Just out of interest,does anybody know if priests need to be disclosed?
Seems the Catholic hierarchy are full of their own self importance and are failing miserably at defending there seedy secretive secular Establishment that is the Catholic church. To even bring the Holocaust into their defence/argument just shows how misguided and ignorant they are. They do not seem remotely remorseful over the systematic abuse that they chose to conceal. Rowan Williams has actually said something usefull for a change, its a shame we will never know the true extent of what the Vatican has hidden on what is an international scandal. When are they going to think of the victims?
Didnt Jesus dislike effergies, and trinkets etc? Why do Catholic Priests need to wear such finery and have such finery to hand. They worship God don't they? Sometimes it strikes me as being a big company where everyone worships each other based on rank.
What an ignorant thing to say. Just about every society and culture on Earth has been shaped and defined by religions. Some of the most spectacular structures on Earth have been built in the name of religion. Language, Law and Philosophy has much to thank religion for.
I think you give religion too much credit.
It's the interpretation and corruption of religion, that causes the trouble.
I hear this so many times from my still religious friends that their beliefs are being mis-represented etc, and I ask them "what are you going to do about it?"
The silence is deafening.
all religion is a festering old pile of shyte...............and catholosism is the rancid liquid that drips from it.............IMHO that is.... 8)
ton, careful there will be a hatecrime thingy on that. If Labour gets another term we'd see a hatecrime law passed for saying Man Utd are shit and deserve to loose/go bust 😉
By being a Catholic does this mean the faithful condone what this senior person and others come out with?
Dunno - does being a Catholic mean that you consider the Pope infallible? If so, then if the Pope says something on the subject of kiddy-fiddling, then I guess that implies that Catholics must agree with him.
all religion is..blah blah blah I never deliberately mean to offend anyone but blah blah blah
Whassamatter, Ton? Not getting enough attention today? 😉
Got any new boils/warts/abscesses?
Hora, are you suffering from sleep deprivation? Little one keeping you up all night?
just putting my thoughts to word mate............like you.
some of us are not very good wordsmiths tho...unlike yourself obviously. and it comes out a bit brash.. 8)
Ok. Sorry, hope I haven't offended you, Great White.. 😉
no, i meant what i write comes out brash............ 😆
Say it like it is Ton, takes less typing that way! 😉
ton - Memberall religion is a festering old pile of shyte...............and catholosism is the rancid liquid that drips from it.............IMHO that is....
Careful there, ton - you might get accused of hurting feelings and disrespecting beliefs... and getting yourself threatened with a banning.
why would what i have put there get me a banning.
no, i meant what i write comes out brash
If you ask me, it just comes out as ignorant and narrow-minded. The thoughts of someone who can't see much beyond their own little sphere of existence, and therefore have little empathy with others.
IMHO. 😉
talkmedia......2 things
you do seem to have a lot of spout for a new member.....no?
and if i did not know what i was talking about..that would be ignorant. unfortunatly as a catholic...i do
and it is a religion built on lies, deceipt, hypocricy and ignorance.
and most people with any sense know this............ 8)
you do seem to have a lot of spout for a new member.....no?
Sorry, am I 'forgetting my place'?
I'm only a little fish. Please don't hurt me... 🙁
As a Catholic, surely you would therefore know that Christianity is built on a set of moral codes which are meant as a guide to unify people and lead them towards a common good? Surely the lies, deceit, hypocrisy and ignorance are as a result of corruption of those moral values, by individuals and groups wishing to use Christianity as a means of gaining power, control and influence over others?
wot a pile of old pooh.............you made me laugh too.... 😆
As a Catholic, surely you would therefore know that Christianity is built on a set of moral codes which are meant as a guide to unify people and lead them towards a common good? Surely the lies, deceit, hypocrisy and ignorance are as a result of corruption of those moral values, by individuals and groups wishing to use Christianity as a means of gaining power, control and influence over others?
Ok, I'm not sure if you are having a laugh or not.
Not really. Just trying to clarify things. Most religions are based on the same basic principles, and are, in essence, reasonably 'positive'. Religions have helped unite people in regions where war and conflict were rife, where rival groups vied for power. A shared common belief can be a positive thing. Millins of people worldwide enjoy religion for it's positive benefits. Nothing wrong with that, surely?
Yes, there are the downsides to religion, as there are with all forms of 'social control'. No one system is perfect.
I just don't think all this negativity, mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
As I said earlier, live and let live. If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it.
Yes, Ton, you're a Great Big Shark. That's lovely. Run along and play now, grown-ups talking. 😀
"there is a creature alive here today who has survived millions of years of evolution, without change and without logic" = great white?
🙂
I'm gutted I missed that open goal, leffeboy! 😉
Hey we need religion to control the mindless masses 😀
[i]If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it. [/i]
Yeah, good call.
[img] 
[/img]
Surely you meant to say, "If it makes someone else happy, without affecting anybody else, leave them to it.". Yes?
Sadly that's where so many religions fail.
Well, I'd hardly think such an act would be carried out by [b]happy[/b] people, so I stand by my comment.
Such an act would not have been carried out by individuals who followed religious doctrine faithfully, but rather those who had their own agenda, and were using religion as an excuse.
[i]Christianity is built on a set of moral codes [/i]
Isn't it just human nature to protect and nurture your own kind? Without clashing religions the world would probably be a lot more united.
You're probably right, Globlonn...
Hence why some religious people want [i]everyone[/i] to join their faith.
I'm as big a sceptic as anyone. I just don't see why religion should take so much flak, from those who are so ignorant.
I disagree. I expect people following religious dogma to the extent where they commit extremist actions are happy beyond belief. They feel they are committing the ultimate sacrifice to guarantee their faith. I'm playing devils advocate here obviously but the point I'm making is that religion is far more dangerous than a gun or a bomb in the hands of the wrong people.
And guns and bombs are banned in most countries.
You're right Talkemada. I certainly wouldn't deny anyone their faith. Shame a few (trying to avoid using religious nutters in here) have to ruin it for the many, as usual.
Interesting point of view, samuri. I'd argue that they are simply angry bastards with an axe to grind, and religion is a convenient institution to hide behind. And those acting in such a destructive manner, are acting against the teachings of their faith, in most cases. Trouble is, 'religion' has been politicised so much, that it's hard to distinguish between the two, at times.
What I'm trying to say, is that the vast majority of religious people believe in 'don't kill, don't be nasty, be nice, don't steal stuff, give stuff to others that need it' that sort of thing. And what's wrong with that?
Too many of you are confusing the actions/ideals of a minority, with those of the majority, who follow religion.
Religion is a powerful thing, however, and it's good to be cautious. I can understand that. I just think too many are too ready to condemn, without first trying to understand others.
Shame a few ... have to ruin it for the many
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
'don't kill, don't be nasty, be nice, don't steal stuff, give stuff to others that need it'...all of that is political in that it is all about preserving the status quo. The ruling classes have never seen themselves as subject to the religious rules they impose on their minions. The odd attempts over the centuries to be serious about equality etc have been absolutely crushed by the major religions. Witness how Ratzinger treated the liberation theologists. In my view, religion distorts and undermines people's wellbeing and attracts those who, sadly, have already been done in.
Just think what good they could have done with the 2.6 Billion dollars they have paid in the US alone since 1950 to pay off victims or as damages for child abuse
Where do they get that sort of money from?
Also like to know how they carry on as clergy, surely they should be on the sex offenders list just like other paedophiles.
That would prevent them coming into contact with children through their work, bloody hell just realised they handle babies for christenings!!
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
Well said Mr Barnes,pity that does not seem to be accepted on stw.
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
Depends, dunnit? If one of the rules of the club is that the boss can do no wrong, then members of the club are by definition supporting the boss's actions, and have some culpability.
That depends of your definition of who the boss is.Even the Pope is only supposed to be Catholic no1.If you are suggesting that Catholics in say,Honduras, are culpabile for the Pope's continued stance on stem cell research(despite new methods of tissue gathering) to use an example.Then I don't think you are correct.Does that mean we are all war criminals because Britain exploited our "colonies?"
Maybe you should tell this to the Israeli’s and Palestinians.
Talkemada - Member
Not really. Just trying to clarify things. Most religions are based on the same basic principles, and are, in essence, reasonably 'positive'. Religions have helped unite people in regions where war and conflict were rife, where rival groups vied for power. A shared common belief can be a positive thing. Millins of people worldwide enjoy religion for it's positive benefits. Nothing wrong with that, surely?
Yes, there are the downsides to religion, as there are with all forms of 'social control'. No one system is perfect.
I just don't think all this negativity, mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
As I said earlier, live and let live. If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it.
mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
but I'd be very wary of allowing a child to be alone with a priest
That depends of your definition of who the boss is.
Not my definition. If (and I say "if" as my knowledge of Catholic theology is a bit limited) one of the tenets of that branch of the religion is Papal infallibility, then people who choose to be Catholic must agree with the Pope that kiddy fiddling is no big deal. Otherwise they should not be Catholics.
If you join a biking club, don't be upset if they ... ride bikes. If what you had in mind was a spot of crochet, join a crochet club.
one of the tenets of that branch of the religion is Papal infallibility
or you could just chose to ignore that bit as irrelevant to Jesus's message
Or you could not be a member of the Catholic Church....There is nothing in the Gospels to say that I,or anybody need somebody to interject between God and I on my behalf.
those loveable scamps are at it again
spreading peace love and harmony throughout the world
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8620135.stm ]vatican says its gays not priests that are paedos[/url]
it really is amazing that in an age of equal rights and anti-discrimination laws that religous hatred and intolerence is fine
"it really is amazing that in an age of equal rights and anti-discrimination laws that religous hatred and intolerence is fine"
Who says its fine? As a catholic, and the (proud) father of a son who just happens to be gay, I find the cardinals remarks offensive and misguided. Scratch that, he's not misguided, he's deliberately trying to scapegoat people. I have no intention of fuelling the 'christians are idiots' threads that have proven so popular of late, I just want to say that not all of us take everything the vatican says as gospel (and yes, I'm aware of that little irony).
Cardinal Bertone, the Vatican's secretary of state, during a visit to Chile on Monday,.... I was told recently, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia," he said.
FFS I await the inquisiton ,the rebirth of the dark ages anfd a heliocentric world. FFS Gays to blame for catholic church covering up paedos in their midst. Barrel scrapping refutation at its worst. Thank **** I dont look to that shower for moral guidance as they seem as morally bankrupt as it is capable to be.
EDIT: Doffs cap respectfully in general direction of barnsleymitch
so not only do they employ kiddie fiddlers, but gays, too....
is gayness allowed in the catholic church?
doesn't really help their cause, does it?
Junkyard - I have my own moral compass thankyou, and cannot concieve of anyone attempting to justify or cover up paedophilia. For the record, I dont have a problem with people questioning the existence or otherwise of God, I just dont like being called stupid or 'responsible' for a bunch of evil deviants. I believe the time for a full, open investigation into this shower is long overdue. 👿
[i]is gayness allowed in the catholic church?[/i]
aparently not.... Oct 2008.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3329225/Vatican-to-use-psychologists-to-weed-out-homosexual-priests.html ]vatican to weed out gay priests[/url]
..........a celibate candidate with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" should be barred "not because he commits a sin, but because homosexuality is a deviation, an irregularity, a wound" that would prevent him from fulfilling his duties.The guidelines, approved by Pope Benedict XVI, are designed to prevent the sort of sex scandals involving paedophile priests which have rocked the Catholic Church in recent years..........