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talkmedia......2 things
you do seem to have a lot of spout for a new member.....no?
and if i did not know what i was talking about..that would be ignorant. unfortunatly as a catholic...i do
and it is a religion built on lies, deceipt, hypocricy and ignorance.
and most people with any sense know this............ 8)
you do seem to have a lot of spout for a new member.....no?
Sorry, am I 'forgetting my place'?
I'm only a little fish. Please don't hurt me... 🙁
As a Catholic, surely you would therefore know that Christianity is built on a set of moral codes which are meant as a guide to unify people and lead them towards a common good? Surely the lies, deceit, hypocrisy and ignorance are as a result of corruption of those moral values, by individuals and groups wishing to use Christianity as a means of gaining power, control and influence over others?
wot a pile of old pooh.............you made me laugh too.... 😆
As a Catholic, surely you would therefore know that Christianity is built on a set of moral codes which are meant as a guide to unify people and lead them towards a common good? Surely the lies, deceit, hypocrisy and ignorance are as a result of corruption of those moral values, by individuals and groups wishing to use Christianity as a means of gaining power, control and influence over others?
Ok, I'm not sure if you are having a laugh or not.
Not really. Just trying to clarify things. Most religions are based on the same basic principles, and are, in essence, reasonably 'positive'. Religions have helped unite people in regions where war and conflict were rife, where rival groups vied for power. A shared common belief can be a positive thing. Millins of people worldwide enjoy religion for it's positive benefits. Nothing wrong with that, surely?
Yes, there are the downsides to religion, as there are with all forms of 'social control'. No one system is perfect.
I just don't think all this negativity, mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
As I said earlier, live and let live. If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it.
Yes, Ton, you're a Great Big Shark. That's lovely. Run along and play now, grown-ups talking. 😀
"there is a creature alive here today who has survived millions of years of evolution, without change and without logic" = great white?
🙂
I'm gutted I missed that open goal, leffeboy! 😉
Hey we need religion to control the mindless masses 😀
[i]If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it. [/i]
Yeah, good call.
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Surely you meant to say, "If it makes someone else happy, without affecting anybody else, leave them to it.". Yes?
Sadly that's where so many religions fail.
Well, I'd hardly think such an act would be carried out by [b]happy[/b] people, so I stand by my comment.
Such an act would not have been carried out by individuals who followed religious doctrine faithfully, but rather those who had their own agenda, and were using religion as an excuse.
[i]Christianity is built on a set of moral codes [/i]
Isn't it just human nature to protect and nurture your own kind? Without clashing religions the world would probably be a lot more united.
You're probably right, Globlonn...
Hence why some religious people want [i]everyone[/i] to join their faith.
I'm as big a sceptic as anyone. I just don't see why religion should take so much flak, from those who are so ignorant.
I disagree. I expect people following religious dogma to the extent where they commit extremist actions are happy beyond belief. They feel they are committing the ultimate sacrifice to guarantee their faith. I'm playing devils advocate here obviously but the point I'm making is that religion is far more dangerous than a gun or a bomb in the hands of the wrong people.
And guns and bombs are banned in most countries.
You're right Talkemada. I certainly wouldn't deny anyone their faith. Shame a few (trying to avoid using religious nutters in here) have to ruin it for the many, as usual.
Interesting point of view, samuri. I'd argue that they are simply angry bastards with an axe to grind, and religion is a convenient institution to hide behind. And those acting in such a destructive manner, are acting against the teachings of their faith, in most cases. Trouble is, 'religion' has been politicised so much, that it's hard to distinguish between the two, at times.
What I'm trying to say, is that the vast majority of religious people believe in 'don't kill, don't be nasty, be nice, don't steal stuff, give stuff to others that need it' that sort of thing. And what's wrong with that?
Too many of you are confusing the actions/ideals of a minority, with those of the majority, who follow religion.
Religion is a powerful thing, however, and it's good to be cautious. I can understand that. I just think too many are too ready to condemn, without first trying to understand others.
Shame a few ... have to ruin it for the many
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
'don't kill, don't be nasty, be nice, don't steal stuff, give stuff to others that need it'...all of that is political in that it is all about preserving the status quo. The ruling classes have never seen themselves as subject to the religious rules they impose on their minions. The odd attempts over the centuries to be serious about equality etc have been absolutely crushed by the major religions. Witness how Ratzinger treated the liberation theologists. In my view, religion distorts and undermines people's wellbeing and attracts those who, sadly, have already been done in.
Just think what good they could have done with the 2.6 Billion dollars they have paid in the US alone since 1950 to pay off victims or as damages for child abuse
Where do they get that sort of money from?
Also like to know how they carry on as clergy, surely they should be on the sex offenders list just like other paedophiles.
That would prevent them coming into contact with children through their work, bloody hell just realised they handle babies for christenings!!
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
Well said Mr Barnes,pity that does not seem to be accepted on stw.
I don't think any religion requires shared responsibility for the actions of all others of the same faith, so I guess such misbehaviour doesn't "spoil" it for the others
Depends, dunnit? If one of the rules of the club is that the boss can do no wrong, then members of the club are by definition supporting the boss's actions, and have some culpability.
That depends of your definition of who the boss is.Even the Pope is only supposed to be Catholic no1.If you are suggesting that Catholics in say,Honduras, are culpabile for the Pope's continued stance on stem cell research(despite new methods of tissue gathering) to use an example.Then I don't think you are correct.Does that mean we are all war criminals because Britain exploited our "colonies?"
Maybe you should tell this to the Israeli’s and Palestinians.
Talkemada - Member
Not really. Just trying to clarify things. Most religions are based on the same basic principles, and are, in essence, reasonably 'positive'. Religions have helped unite people in regions where war and conflict were rife, where rival groups vied for power. A shared common belief can be a positive thing. Millins of people worldwide enjoy religion for it's positive benefits. Nothing wrong with that, surely?
Yes, there are the downsides to religion, as there are with all forms of 'social control'. No one system is perfect.
I just don't think all this negativity, mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
As I said earlier, live and let live. If it makes someone else happy, leave them to it.
mistrust and misunderstanding of religion is either helpful or justified.
but I'd be very wary of allowing a child to be alone with a priest
That depends of your definition of who the boss is.
Not my definition. If (and I say "if" as my knowledge of Catholic theology is a bit limited) one of the tenets of that branch of the religion is Papal infallibility, then people who choose to be Catholic must agree with the Pope that kiddy fiddling is no big deal. Otherwise they should not be Catholics.
If you join a biking club, don't be upset if they ... ride bikes. If what you had in mind was a spot of crochet, join a crochet club.
one of the tenets of that branch of the religion is Papal infallibility
or you could just chose to ignore that bit as irrelevant to Jesus's message
Or you could not be a member of the Catholic Church....There is nothing in the Gospels to say that I,or anybody need somebody to interject between God and I on my behalf.
those loveable scamps are at it again
spreading peace love and harmony throughout the world
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8620135.stm ]vatican says its gays not priests that are paedos[/url]
it really is amazing that in an age of equal rights and anti-discrimination laws that religous hatred and intolerence is fine
"it really is amazing that in an age of equal rights and anti-discrimination laws that religous hatred and intolerence is fine"
Who says its fine? As a catholic, and the (proud) father of a son who just happens to be gay, I find the cardinals remarks offensive and misguided. Scratch that, he's not misguided, he's deliberately trying to scapegoat people. I have no intention of fuelling the 'christians are idiots' threads that have proven so popular of late, I just want to say that not all of us take everything the vatican says as gospel (and yes, I'm aware of that little irony).
Cardinal Bertone, the Vatican's secretary of state, during a visit to Chile on Monday,.... I was told recently, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and paedophilia," he said.
FFS I await the inquisiton ,the rebirth of the dark ages anfd a heliocentric world. FFS Gays to blame for catholic church covering up paedos in their midst. Barrel scrapping refutation at its worst. Thank **** I dont look to that shower for moral guidance as they seem as morally bankrupt as it is capable to be.
EDIT: Doffs cap respectfully in general direction of barnsleymitch
so not only do they employ kiddie fiddlers, but gays, too....
is gayness allowed in the catholic church?
doesn't really help their cause, does it?
Junkyard - I have my own moral compass thankyou, and cannot concieve of anyone attempting to justify or cover up paedophilia. For the record, I dont have a problem with people questioning the existence or otherwise of God, I just dont like being called stupid or 'responsible' for a bunch of evil deviants. I believe the time for a full, open investigation into this shower is long overdue. 👿
[i]is gayness allowed in the catholic church?[/i]
aparently not.... Oct 2008.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/3329225/Vatican-to-use-psychologists-to-weed-out-homosexual-priests.html ]vatican to weed out gay priests[/url]
..........a celibate candidate with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" should be barred "not because he commits a sin, but because homosexuality is a deviation, an irregularity, a wound" that would prevent him from fulfilling his duties.The guidelines, approved by Pope Benedict XVI, are designed to prevent the sort of sex scandals involving paedophile priests which have rocked the Catholic Church in recent years..........
FFS I await the inquisition
The Inquistion still exists, and Ratzinger was its head until he was promoted!