[Closed] Different Steed but Strangely Familiar Arguments

molgrips - Member

So what?

If you were not interested in my reply to Cougar, you need not have jumped into the conversation.

All the more reason to take extra care then isn't it?

And I have repeatedly stated that I do. 🙂

Some might not be, but I think many are. A rider who ISN'T in full control of his or her horse shouldn't be on the road (and I've met a few of those) but the same could be said of any vehicle.

Precisely my argument.

Bikes and cars will move themselves even less intelligently than a horse under the influence of gravity or momentum.

Not sure what your argument is here, my car is outside and I can guarantee that it will not move due to gravity, momentum or anything else.
Can't say the same for your (theoretical?) horse.

Oh and bails - very well played!

Yes, three cheers for the funny pitcher!
I have a suitable riposte but on the grounds of good taste I will refrain from posting it.

Good call with the Audi photo!

I was about to post this: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Biker-48-remains-stable-condition-Cumberland/story-26216245-detail/story.html

Couple of weeks ago, motorcyclist seriously injured (CPR at the scene) when a pickup crossed a central reservation into another one. Biker was a innocent victim and ended up under one of the cars.

We did have a local girl who would ride her horse very badly on a very tight and twisty lane down the road that used by school runners and commuters (ie generally rushing and often with driving that leaves a lot to be desired). By dangerous I mean on the wrong side of the road and a horse that would dart across the road and be generally spooked by anything, let alone a cars that were trying to pass very slowly giving it plenty of room on the widest section. Not seen her for a while, I wonder if it ended up down the abattoir.

Had a run in the other week with an elderly lady on a steep and narrow road. We were pulling the trailer full of sheep and I spotted them will in advance. They pulled into a passing place as we were going up hill and no passing places on our side between us and them so i drove at the absolute slowest possible speed I could and was driving an automatic. The car coming down behind the horses managed to reverse back up the hill out of the way about twice as fast we were coming up it.

But still one of the old women started shouting at me for travelling too fast!

I was very tempted to lean on the horn. I settled for telling her I thought she was a stupid b**** instead.

Nothing against horses, I help disabled kids learn to ride and I probably go slightly OTT with regards to slowing down and giving room for horses (if that is possible). It's just the same old story of some people are dicks and some of those drive cars, ride bikes, ride horses etc etc.

Yes, three cheers for the funny pitcher!
I have a suitable riposte but on the grounds of good taste I will refrain from posting it.

Hang on, you're getting all arsey about a bit of humour on the thread? You need to simmer down I think.

my car is outside and I can guarantee that it will not move due to gravity, momentum or anything else.

Yeah not sure where you're going with that. Stationary cars don't count, we're talking about when cars and horses are driving around.

Bottom line is - it may be dangerous to ride horses on roads, but that's not the horse riders' fault, it's bad drivers' fault. So to stop horses from riding would be immoral.

Just to make it clear - is your argument that horses shoudl not be allowed on roads?

A animal loving FB friend today posted about a girls horse that she was out riding, stopped to adjust the saddle and it 'bolted'

It then trotted off up the grass verge and was clipped by a car.

I commented along the lines of it not being under control. All the horsey types tried to say that it only bolted because it was scared, nowhere in the shitely written article did it say the horse was scared by a car, just that it bolted, maybe she nipped it doing up the saddle who knows.

It was of course the car drivers fault that a bolting horse was clipped by it and couldn't have been the horses fault or the riders.

I don't mind horses, in pies, or fields. Actually I hate them, but that is having dated someone who loved horses.

^ girl should have tied the horse up to something before messing with the saddle.

Unfortunate accident/incident that could have been avoided. But not one I'm going to lose any sleep over it as there are far more every day involving just cars and people don't say ban cars or people driving cars from the road.

Horse riders can do what they want but I do take objection to some of the entitled ahem people round my way who complain about my bike lights scaring their precious horses, despite the fact that I've reduced my speed to a complete crawl as serenely trundle past.

I don't want to scare an'orse and I dont want to be on the receiving end of one's ire but if they're that easily spooked they really shoudln't be allowed to play out.

As for the original post, I'm surprised so many 'motorists' are whinging as my experience is more as has been pointed out already - much more tolerance for horses than bikes.

Cars make people go nuts for some unfathomable reason. Don't think that will ever change.

answered 3 questions as an afterthought when we got back to the test centre

I've already stated that I drive carefully and considerately around horses

I never suggested that [b]you [/b]don't. I just would like other people to do the same!

You won't find me advocating anything other than safe considerate road use

you're right, I think I've actually confused one of your posts with someone else, and I apologise for that.

I was trying to address the notion that horses shouldn't be on the road, something which I can see you have not actually said, although I got the feeling from some of your posts that you were implying that, but that could be as much my bias in reading as anything so I'll just say sorry and leave it there. 🙂

different [b]thread [/b] but strangely familiar arguments

Is there a STRAVA for horses?

😆

A animal loving FB friend today posted about a girls horse that she was out riding, stopped to adjust the saddle and it 'bolted'

Yep. That was the original article:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-riders-anguish-beloved-horse-9036780

That spurred this more general follow-up article about the British Horse Society asking drivers to pass horses slowly:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/five-north-east-horses-killed-9035477

That spurred this more general follow-up article about the British Horse Society asking drivers to pass horses slowly:

This has just reminded me that riding home past Percy Pit last thursday I saw a trotting pony legging it past the queue of traffic on Lemmington Road pursued by a mob of the cream of West End youth. No idea how that ended up but it was quite a sight.

answered 3 questions as an afterthought when we got back to the test centre

Did you get them right?

Two out of three I think.

I got the one about horses wrong 🙂

This has just reminded me that riding home past Percy Pit last thursday I saw a trotting pony legging it past the queue of traffic on Lemmington Road pursued by a mob of the cream of West End youth. No idea how that ended up but it was quite a sight.

It probably had nabbed their tenner deal and was off for a bucket in the field before bedtime.

Yep. That was the original article:

That article annoys me.

I've never seen an Audi throw its driver onto the bonnet of another car before bolting across fields/through fences finally concussing itself on a garage door.

How can you tell that last one is an Audi?

By the parking?

Google image search reveals...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/portslade-audi-tt-crash-car-3111885

😀

There was a good one with an Audi A5 clearing the customs hut at the french-swiss border.

I liked this one of wild Audis mating:

[img] [/img]

By the parking?

Another blinder!

Hmm. They all seem to be TT's (and one Cabrio).

Therefore, I conclude TT's and Cabrio A3's are more likely to be spooked and bolt whilst out on the road.

How can you tell that last one is an Audi?

Hmm. They all seem to be TT's (and one Cabrio).

I liked this one of wild Audis mating:

Maybe the A5 driver had been watching Transporter movies:

[img] [/img]

Spotted the estate in the cottage one, will get a link

[img] [/img]

GrahamS - Member

By the parking?

😆

Just to make it clear - is your argument that horses shoudl not be allowed on roads?

I was trying to address the notion that horses shouldn't be on the road, something which I can see you have not actually said

Actually I have said that no-one should be on the road if not in full control of their vehicle, and have stated that one is ever fully in control of an animal.

So yes, I have stated that horses shouldn't be on roads, and given good reason.

It won't stop me driving carefully around them, and it's not like I am so against them that I'm lobbying for a ban of horses on the road, but it remains my opinion.
It is silly to use historical arguments in support; times change.

EllohELL

and have stated that one is ever fully in control of an animal.

Ok. So you think that no rider can ever be in *sufficient* control of a horse to justify riding on a road..?

I have to ask - how much experience do you have with horses?

Ok. So you think that no rider can ever be in *sufficient* control of a horse to justify riding on a road..?

Nope, same as I think dogs should always be on a lead.

I have to ask - how much experience do you have with horses?

Riding them? Very little.
Witnessing them out of control? Enough for me to have the opinion I do.
🙂

Actually I have said that no-one should be on the road if not in full control of their vehicle, and have stated that one is ever fully in control of an animal.

So yes, I have stated that horses shouldn't be on roads, and given good reason.

If you go down that road sbob then presumably you'd also want to prevent livestock from being driven on the road (in the original sense of the word) and make sure there are fences on all roads to prevent sheep etc wandering aimlessly onto them?

It seems a very exclusive "Roads are for cars. Other things can use them only with special permission" viewpoint.

same as I think dogs should always be on a lead.

not one of those extending tripwires.

especially if i'm anywhere nearby on a bike.

😉 😈

If you go down that road sbob

He can't. It's full of some ****ers' sheep.

GrahamS - Member

If you go down that road sbob then presumably you'd also want to prevent livestock from being driven on the road (in the original sense of the word) and make sure there are fences on all roads to prevent sheep etc wandering aimlessly onto them?

It seems a very exclusive "Roads are for cars. Other things can use them only with special permission" viewpoint.

I appreciate what you are saying Graham and the opinion I have given is overly simplistic, but to adapt your statement, most of the roads we build are primarily for cars.
I'm not saying that is necessarily right in all circumstances, but it is true.

most of the roads we build are primarily for cars

However most of them are also perfectly usable for horses and bikes.

Very little.
Witnessing them out of control? Enough for me to have the opinion I do

Oh come on - if you saw someone fall off their bike, would you think bikes are unsuitable for roads? Or would you conclude insufficient skill on the part of the rider?

Why would the horse be any different? They CAN be controlled well enough, so if they aren't it's a mistake on behalf of the rider. Of course it happens, but then so does people crashing cars through their own fault or falling off bikes.

That's the crux of our difference in opinion.
I think (most, not all) people can be trained to a high enough standard for safe road use.
I don't think animals can.

"He's never bitten anyone before..." 💡

I have the sneaky suspicion some posters on here have a hidden agenda:

[img] [/img]

to adapt your statement, most of the roads we build are primarily for cars.
I'm not saying that is necessarily right in all circumstances, but it is true.

Yep, that's true by the nature of the roads we build.

However it is one thing to effectively exclude legal tax-paying road users through bad design (even if it is deliberate and intentional), but I think to actually recognise and condone that practise in law would be a very different prospect.

Don't come in.

I said DON'T come in! Dammit.

[img] [/img]

What we need is fewer people on our crowded roads so we (the British people) can all use them safely.
Can we blame this on the immigrants? 😆

SAVE HORSES! VOTE UKIP! 😆

I don't think animals can.

On the basis of very little experience with horses.

Ok then - your opinion is noted and filed 🙂

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member

On the basis of very little experience with horses.

Ok then - your opinion is noted and filed

Similarly with your grasp of basic comprehension. 🙂

Until a year ago,I lived in a rural village with several livery stables within a couple of miles.In 15 years the only riders having problems controlling their horses,had had a close encounter with an irresponsible car driver.Oh,and yes I do drive a car,and am very happy to slow down for horses on public roads.Just like learner drivers really.

Nope, same as I think dogs should always be on a lead.

[img] [/img]

I'm not sure that picture will be of any comfort to the 200,000+ people who are bitten by dogs each year andy.

I get the feeling you're not really much of an animal person sbob 😆

That's a flawed argument unless you can directly link number of attacks with dogs on or off leads and the actual cause being that the dog was off the lead and not some other factor which is over-riding.

How about we ban cars from roads as the 2013 figures are:

1,713 killed, 21,657 seriously injured, 160,300 injured and those are the lowest since records began.

the 1998 figures were: 3,421, 41,000 & 281,000

why dont we eat all the animals, then thnis wouldfn't be a problem

How about we ban cars from roads as the 2013 figures are:

Fewer injured than by dogs?

Not the best argument you could put across andy.

GrahamS - Member

I get the feeling you're not really much of an animal person sbob

Is it the repeated use of the phrase "perverse inter-species relationship" that gives it away? 😆

I've little against most animals, but I do think owners of pets should be responsible in their keeping.
Like keeping dogs on leads for example.
Again, this is a simplified view.
There are fenced areas near me for the specific purpose of letting dogs run about freely, which I have no problem with.

why dont we eat all the animals, then thnis wouldfn't be a problem

I've been doing my best to achieve this for years.

But I can't do it on my own, some of you aren't pulling your weight !

Yeah, no horses on the roads. Or walkers. Or children. Or tractors. Or buses. Or livestock. Or wild animals. Or cyclists. Or… anything that makes me drive with care, attention and restricted speed.

If you see someone riding a horse on the road, slow down, pass wide, don't be a dick.

By the parking?

Genius. Hurty laughing.

It's sudden movements and unexpected noises that spook horses (and riders)

don't be a dick.

A lesson for all of life not just passing horses...

I view it as a long game, a very long game based on simple sustainability.

Cars will inevitably cease to be the default mode of transport for the dribbling masses eventually, switch em' to the lectrickery, make them driverless, sooner or later the dwindling resources to make and fuel the bastard things and the resounding lack of joy in sitting in such shite boxes will be enough to marginalise persistent users.

Thats when those with (currently) "alternative" tastes in road transport will be able to laud it over the clarksonites...

Until then just smile, nod and post pictures of Audis parked in houses...

[img] http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2015-02-05/1a1a9960-ad2a-11e4-bd9c-7797a9388798_RPY_CAR_CRASH_01.jp g" target="_blank">http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2015-02-05/1a1a9960-ad2a-11e4-bd9c-7797a9388798_RPY_CAR_CRASH_01.jp g"/> [/img]

please odnt post pics of my car and house

As it happens, roads were NOT actually built for cars...

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/23/roads-were-not-built-for-cars-carlton-reid-review ]Roads were not built for cars[/url]

MP Sir Ernest Soares told parliament in 1903: “Motorists are in the position of statutary trespassers on the road … roads were never made for motor-cars. Those who designed them and laid them out never thought of motor-cars.”

and to be honest, we'd all be a whole lot better off if we all drove a lot less...

Ironically enough I passed a horse and trap this morning. The handler was on foot, getting it turned around at the side of the road, leading the horse by the bit.

Car in front of me passed it way too close, horse got a little spooked but the guy kept good hold of it.

I irritated the driver behind me (a meter from my back bumper) by braking and going into the other lane to go wide and slow past it. 😀
Wasn't too hard. Added maybe fifteen seconds to our journey time.

Wasn't too hard. Added maybe fifteen seconds to our journey time.

Pretty meaningless statement, for all we know you could drive like molgrips. 😆

Added maybe fifteen seconds to our journey time.

edit: was a learner driver for me. because I was 3 cars back, and holding back from the 2 cars in front that were --><-- that far way from a 3 car shunt, apparently it was me that was holding up the traffic. he might have been 1 whole traffic light phase late for work.

Yeah I never understand that mentality.

Big line of traffic pootling along in front, clearly nowhere to go, but the driver behind still insists on rubbing bumpers. Presumably they are encouraging me to teleport out of the way?

Leaving a proper safe gap. Another good reason for periodic re-tests.

its the same mentality that makes people pull crazy overtaking manoeuvres on cyclists so that they can then slam on the brakes 30ft later for the red light 😕

Everybody seems to be in a hurry to get to the end of a queue (more urban than rural I accept). I guess that's a life of making progress. 🙂

Big line of traffic pootling along in front, clearly nowhere to go, but the driver behind still insists on rubbing bumpers. Presumably they are encouraging me to teleport out of the way?

*honks horn*

Get outta da way!

Yeah I suspect that being a cyclist opens your eyes a bit to these things.

I had a nasty mechanical in the car last night: rear passenger-side suspension spring snapped (ooft!)

So I crawled it the mile or so back to the car park at 15mph (on a 40mph road) with my hazards on, carefully avoiding bumps and waving people past.
Ended up with a lorry behind me, obviously annoyed and sat right on my bumper. When I turned off (after he was "stuck" behind me for maybe a minute) he was tooting his horn and giving me the coffee beans. 🙄

at least you did limp it back, have noticed a disturbing trend over recent years of people having breakdowns and just stopping their car where it is, sticking the hazards on and calling the recovery service, no attempt to push or limp to a safer/less in the way location 😕

has anybody read this since they past their test?
[img] [/img]
free to read via this link
https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/highway-code
I'm seriously considering riding one these soon
[img] [/img]
then see how many people complain about the "lack of road tax"

has anybody read this since they past their test?

I think most people regard it as some archaic purely theoretical thing that they had to learn for their test, but which doesn't really apply to [i]real[/i] driving.

have noticed a disturbing trend over recent years of people having breakdowns and just stopping their car where it is,

I could see the point of getting a couple of snaps of the cars in situ before pulling over but these people always just seem to be exchanging details [i]in the middle of rush hour traffic[/i]