[Closed] Depression & Suicide

It’s ****ing shite but as well you know trying to think straight and telling others how you feel isn’t always easy.

Yup, having a particularly bad day today ( first for some time, and no suicidal thoughts ) though trying to be kind to myself and telling myself it’s a bad day, it’ll pass.

If you're suffering too then shout up, it will pass, may not be straightaway, or a week or a month, but it will pass.

Thanks to the world MH day thread the other week I’ve had a telephone assessment and now been referred on. Help is out there, make a noise until you get it

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with suicide.

If the person in question wants to, then why shouldn't they.

Whats always on my mind is that it's taken society to recognise that mental health is an acceptable form of illness... and we're in the 21st century.

Just because we can't "see" it, doesn't mean people don't suffer it.

Oh there is quite a lot wrong with suicide, mainly as the person is not thinking straight at the time, and with help, could still be here enjoying life.

I’ve been having a tough time too of late after I found out an ex took her own life 2 years ago. I say of late it’s probably been a few months and stresses at work don’t help. Thankfully I now have two weeks off work and then I’m going for Counseling when I get back (appointment has already been made) as I can feel things slipping back into old thought patterns. I’ve never been actively suicidal but my partner has commented that I look “lonely”.

I’m sorry for your loss SR and I hope you can keep your thoughts straight.

FWIW SaxonRider you are one of my fave people on STW so don't do anything to spoil my day.
I'm in the process of switching back on to Sertraline after my doc moved me onto other drugs a few years ago saying it wasn't good to stay on it long term (can cause heart issues allegedly). Ever since, I've never had a quiet mind. If your symptoms are returning, consider going back on it.

@neil the wheel
What heart issues are these. I've been on Sertraline for 18 months now, A went on them only a few weeks after ablation for AF. Nobody has said anything.

Sorry for your loss SaxonRider. This is one of the few places I actually hear people talk about depression. It helps to know that others feel the same feelings, and it's 'normal' for brains to be ill. Thankfully it's been a while since I've had the thoughts of suicide being a way out and this time (3rd time on anti-depressants) I'm in no rush to stop taking them.

the good news (if that is possible with this subject) is that a lot more people are open about it and the fact that they are either on some form of medication or therapy.  A good number of my friends are happy to talk about it and with one who has just got a new job it was discussed as part of medical to join but didn't impede him getting the job.  I'm sure there are lots of examples showing how far we have to go but we appear to be on the right track.  This place especially is magical for folks being willing to speak up before it goes to far

One thing that irritates me is all these catch-alls that people like to throw about as helping when it is simply not true for everyone. Talk about it. whatever you do make sure you don't sit at home get out and do something.

If I talk about it it sends me spinning out completely. I work myself into a worse and worse state until I feel like I'm barely in control. According to my psychologist it's because when I talk I do it wrong.

In terms of exercise I find that anything that requires full concentration (mtb or climbing for example) takes my mind off things in that particular moment but as soon as I stop the feelings come back with extra ferocity.

What works for me is to sit and binge watch something. It effectively switches my brain off until I start to feel like I can cope again. If you ask any 'experts' that's apparently the wrong thing to do.

No real point here, just a moan.

Sertaline can **** people up, I know a few people who were on it for about 6 months and who then started getting intrusive suicidal thoughts.

Talk to your doctor about an alternative pharmacological treatment, see whether he or she thinks it necessary or advisable.

I'm kinda with @bikebuoy - there must be some circumstances where its the least worst option.

I must have been on Sertraline for ten years now on varying doses.

Nobody has ever said anything about heart issues to me.

I'm not sure it works really as I'm still terrible at times.

As for suicide. Awful for everyone that loves that person but sometimes, I believe the person IS thinking clearly, and just trying to do what they need.

Hey, maybe life IS shit...

Oh there is quite a lot wrong with suicide, mainly as the person is not thinking straight at the time, and with help, could still be here enjoying life.

Not everyone enjoys life, and there is no measure for what "enjoyment" is.

Thats just your opinion.

I find October very hard and dread it coming around each year to be honest. Get very low this time of year and no matter what I do I just can’t seem to combat it. Been on Citalopram for five years now. Not had many suicidal thoughts in that time. The downside is that it’s pretty much turned me in to an automaton. Just going through the motions with no emotional highs or lows.

Not sure what to do. Can constantly feel a state of panic at the back of my mind. Stuck in a job I really don’t like, don’t have the confidence or self esteem to look for something else. Love my wife and kids, but beyond that I’m just lost at the moment.

Sorry for rambling. Stay safe people

If the person in question wants to, then why shouldn’t they.

Because it's never a rational decision. Most people who feel suicidal and subsequently get over it are glad they didn't do it. So that should tell you something.

Not sure what to do. Can constantly feel a state of panic at the back of my mind. Stuck in a job I really don’t like, don’t have the confidence or self esteem to look for something else.

Depression is a complex thing but sometimes your actual real life situation is a factor in the traditional sense. Back yourself, go out and find a new job. It will help. Even deciding to work on it can help.

Would love to but the fact it pays well and I’m the sole earner at the moment makes it difficult. Aforementioned lack of confidence and self esteem also doesn’t help. Early 40’s, not we’ll educated, no formal qualifications either. I know they’re probably poor excuses, but they are genuine barriers in my mind.

Sorry to derail the thread

I feel terrible, I have had a life time of depression but this is different. I am so angry at my wife, all the time. Previously, long term grievances or unhappinesses - with what or who-ever- have been 'rationalised' or held in check; like, previously how I felt in the moment is 'my' problem whether or not I have a 'point' about whatever is going on. Now I feel like I am in a rut where I am unreachable, to others and to myself, I'm just so easily provoked. It's less sad, more angry and self destructive. Obviously if you present yourself as sad, as a patient or as a victim you are more likely to get help or sympathy. Myabe I don't want sympathy anymore? It is difficult because, at a certain point, the feeling of vulnerablility becomes so intolerable, so humiliating, you feel the only important thing to do is 'defend' and maintain whatever strength you have left.

I am told I put down everything, I guess I have always been told that, why has now something 'snapped' and I can't reach what is good about things/people? I feel sorry for my wife, I want to reconnect with her. I try and I just feel like I am pretending, doing her a favour, then get angry again.

I sound like a horrible person, I am a horrible person. It is a shame because I was a sweet kid.

Luckily never had any problems myself but 18yo step daughter made a serious attempt on her life earlier this year, found it very difficult to deal with and understand. Wife's on the face of it very with it cousin succeeded a couple of years back, absolutely tragic. It's good to talk - even just writing and discussing things with my wife as a result of this thread helps.

bikebouy

Subscriber
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with suicide.

If the person in question wants to, then why shouldn’t they.

And they do have that choice. Its when people are mentally unwell and do not have mental capacity for whatever reason to make an informed decision is when they need help and protection.
Molgrips - its only your opinion that its never a rational decision; as for
"Most people who feel suicidal and subsequently get over it are glad they didn’t do it. So that should tell you something"
.. once again your trying to dress your opinion up as fact. The facts are that people who attempt suicide very often go on to try it again ... and are typically more successful 2nd time of trying.

raybanwomble

Member
Sertaline can **** people up, I know a few people who were on it for about 6 months and who then started getting intrusive suicidal thoughts.

Intrusive suicidal thoughts are a lot more common than most people think. Problems arise when people think they are abnormal for having them .. and as a result develop anxiety each time they get these thoughts. Where as before they would have the intrusive suicidal thought - and not give it a second thought .. they now ruminate on it; convincing themselves they are at risk of acting on the thought. It then become a vicious circle!

A colleague of mine will often explain this to a service user during assessment using an example of trying not to think about elephants ...

Who thinks of elephants? everybody who tries not to think about elephants!

I feel that personality disorders are at the root of a lot of peoples depression.

Tom84. How do you feel having written that stuff down? Has it been cathartic? Please try to get some help in person if you can. Our opinions of ourselves are seldom accurate so i doubt you are the horrible person you think you are.

I've never posted on threads like this before; I don't know why - maybe because I wouldn't have anything to say that others couldn't say better, I don't know..

[b]tom84[/b] - you are not a horrible person; a horrible person wouldn't recognise and acknowledge their feelings, let alone post on a forum in a way that suggests they want to change. If you haven't already, do speak to someone, someone anonymous. In my last counselling sessions, I opened up about stuff that I thought made me a terrible person but my counsellor helped me accept my thought processes for what they are, and showed me that I'm not as bad a person as I thought.

Currently awaiting a referral for CBT after my recent counselling, as I've accepted that my spiralling suicidal thought are something that I can control and not something that I just need to accept as "just how I am".

[b]funkmasterp[/b], I'm in a very similar position at work at the moment, and tbh have found that even just updating a CV and contacting recruiters has helped; even if I do nothing to actually change my situation, just taking steps to make me think I [i]could[/i] feels positive.

Have struggled with self-harm and suicidal thoughts on and off for about 24 years now - have had counselling but never any medication as I'm scared of the side-effects. Next Friday is the 5-year anniversary of my other half's younger brother stepping in front of a train, 8 years after their youngest brother died of cancer, so it's a tough time for her, and why I feel like I can't speak to her about my feelings. I have other people that say "You can always speak to me" but mostly I don't as I don't feel that close to them, or anyone.

I don't know what the real point of this is, other than to say thanks to everyone on here who's ever opened up and been honest. You're all awesome. Hang in there.

I sound like a horrible person, I am a horrible person. It is a shame because I was a sweet kid.

No. You sound like someone who has had a tough time.

there must be some circumstances where its the least worst option.

This. In some circumstances it is even the right option. But only when the brain is clear. Just had a couple of beers and bunch of food so I'll process and be back tomorrow, but not every suicide is down to a current mental state of disarray, in my case it will be part of a decision made over 25 years ago that has been reviewed on an infrequent basis.
Everyone is different. We don't all need a semi-colon tattoo in our 'honour'.

On Wednesday the 16th of December 1992 my dad had a headache and decided that he was going to take the day off work and told me he was going to put the van back in the lockup around the corner. For some reason we were arguing and I told him to F-off. When I got back from school on the Thursday my mum asked if I'd seen him, I hadn't. When I got home on Friday my mum said that she'd reported him missing, no one had seen or heard from him since Wednesday.
It was 13 days after my 17th birthday. My friends were out but I sat at home, wondering what might of happened. Had he had an affair and run off? Was he hurt somewhere? Had something happened? I remember that he had come home crying one day back in November, it was the first time I'd seen him break down but he wanted to speak to my mum. I wrote a poem "Is it so hard to lift a handset and raise a smile..."
I went to work on Saturday, when I came home the police were there. They asked me some questions and I went to my room. My mum came up later to tell me that the police were going to do a missing person's press release; BBC scotland, STV, the Scotsman and the evening news. I went to work on Sunday, trying to be as normal as possible. It wasn't until lunchtime that anyone mentioned it, in front of my colleagues, I made a joke of it. On my way home a friend and I went for a drink, I had a feeling I was going home to bad news.
My mum's friend opened the front door, she didn't say anything, we just nodded and I went to my room. I got changed and went straight back out and up to my regular pub and got pissed, went home and slept. This repeated for years.
The funeral was on Christmas eve, despite my brother (15) and I asking if it could be after. The crematorium was packed, they moved it to a larger one but people were still outside. I was just numb, I had no idea what was going on nor who most of the people were. Even my closest friends became strangers, they didn't know what to do or say but I had no support.
I blamed myself, the last thing I said to him was to f-off. I was angry, how could he be so selfish?
How could I have been so selfish? Why didn't I ask if he needed help? Why didn't I tell someone that he'd broken down? Because I had other things to do, because I didn't want to get involved in what I thought was personal.
I can think of a couple of reasons that he may have killed himself over. He'd been blacklisted for protesting against the poll tax so regular work was hard to find and he was a gambler, he had been a successful one but he may have had a bad hand. He may have thought he'd failed us. Truth is I don't know.
As I've gotten older I've noticed that while life does have its ups and downs it doesn't get better for everyone. Who do you talk to when you literally have no one? Where do you go when the gp can't prescribe meds and it's an 18 month waiting list for counselling? If you're a lone parent then when do you get a break to go out on the bike? You're middle aged and keep being looked over for promotion or even training, what are your prospects? My last friend said I should do it.
Obviously I mucked up and now have temperamental kidneys.
Would I try it again? Probably

https://www.samaritans.org/

Call 116 123.

It might not be the solution, but it could be the start.

I wish you strength and courage Faerie.

@tom84 Easy to say, hard to do. If you can manage talk to someone. A counsellor if possible. A lot of what you describe is familiar. No quick fix. But not insoluble. Good luck.

I've never been depressed or suicidal but I can appreciate how easy it is to get into it and feel that way. Guys, there's so much out there for you to find you just need help or someone to get there. If you're ever in East London/Essex hit me up and we'll go ride, just for fun and no greater purpose than that.

Please please talk to someone if your feeling very low. I’m very lucky to have someone to talk to and it really helps.

To anyone suffering please hang in there your not alone.

Fingers crossed that anyone suffering finds the help and support they need to get better.

I've struggled a bit in the post and had some counseling and fluoxitine iirc. I've struggling now, different symptoms, anxiety this time. House subsidence is back has stress levels very high, work restructuring and I found Thursday I need to apply for my own job so more stress. I'm at the point where a battle to catch some house mice is feeling overwhelming. However, I know to keep trying different things to find a solution. F*** it's hard at times though.

If the person in question wants to, then why shouldn’t they.

Because it’s never a rational decision. Most people who feel suicidal and subsequently get over it are glad they didn’t do it. So that should tell you something.

Disagree.

My cousin was very rational and made the decision.

I'm not so sure your "glad they didn't do it" catch all is valid either. The wards and social services are littered with stories that would counter that statement.

I todays society we have a very rigid view when it comes to suicide. If you attempt suicide (and unsuccessful) you are labelled mentally ill and often can be charged or sectioned under the mental health act that effectively takes away your own liberty.. that liberty is free BTW, no-one gave it to you it's effectively yours do do what you want with it.

Theres plenty of arguments for looking after those that are mentally ill or unable to make rational decisions, and those people should be looked after in loving environments. Not left to rot in a society that doesn't effectively GAS.. which is pretty much where we are today.

Assisted suicide should be legal in the UK, I think it's the irrational of society that is keeping it from being made into Law.

Going through a bad patch at the moment. Meds aren’t touching it, other half doesn’t want to know, work are trying to get shut of me and financially I’m in a massive hole.

Got so bad the other day that I did call the Samaritans - it was engaged! I can’t even do that right. However I saw the funny side and held off.

If there was a pain free guaranteed way of doing it, I’d have done it by now. Shame I’m such a coward really.

Meds won’t lift your mood if it’s a reactive type depression - a shit social situation is not going to improve by taking medication. It’s unrealistic to expect depression medication to fix all that’s lowering your mood .. from my very limited knowledge of medicine; is that they only rebalance the chemicals in your brain that lower mood. They certainly don’t fix bad relationships, debts, or work environments. So that is something you need to recognise and try to work on yourself.
Citizens Advise - Stepchange.org - Work HR dept ...
There is also CALL to speak to also on 0800132737

I've just gone back on Sertraline, was on it for 4 months earlier this year. It works for me but I was worried about the side effects and dependency creeping in so came off it a little bit too early. Building up the dose currently, see how that goes.

I find October very hard and dread it coming around each year to be honest. Get very low this time of year and no matter what I do I just can’t seem to combat it.

It's the January/February time for me, everyone else seems to go into hibernation whereas I want to be out in the ice, snow and frost. This time of year and early spring are my favourites so the contrast can be a trigger for me to go into a downward spiral between Christmas and Easter even without my current issues!

As for the suicide discussion? From talking to friends after one of our group made a successful attempt not one of us could honestly say they'd never had the thought cross their mind. The most common one was just driving into the front of a truck going the other way, so easy to do in a split-second and could almost be always put down to a tragic accident. I've had that thought on more than one occasion, the last one was actually out on the bike riding across a road with a big drop to the right. The thought of "If I just turn right here I'd die a happy boy!" popped into my head for a split second, I was only half way across the road when the thought passed, I straightened up and carried on my ride!!

It's a massively taboo subject that really, really needs to be discussed objectively and honestly.

Intrusive thoughts are normal

Because it’s never a rational decision. Most people who feel suicidal and subsequently get over it are glad they didn’t do it. So that should tell you something.

This is a very black and white opinion in a world of shades of grey. I was going to say arrogant but actually I think just ill informed. What you say may be true some of the time, but in my experience, a great deal of successful suicides are carefully planned, pre planned and considered, which points away from a lack of capacity.

I despise suicide, for what it does to the people left behind, for the fact that the individual feels so trapped that he(usually, though occasionally she) sees this as the best or only way out that they can bear. Society has a lot to answer for in how it values people and status.

I despise suicide. But I recognise that for some people, it’s a choice that they will make, given the world we live in. To dismiss them as all as ‘not thinking straight’ is dismissive of the position they find themselves in the extreme. Some aren’t thinking straight, almost all could be helped, but a great deal have significantly more insight into their situation than any well meaning outsiders.

I also, really, REALLY despise pathetic attention seeking ‘cry for help’ type suicide attempts. This behaviour makes spotting and helping the people who have genuine need so much harder. I think that the ratio of genuine attempts vs ‘give me attention’ attempts must be 50:1.

I’m not so sure your “glad they didn’t do it” catch all is valid either. The wards and social services are littered with stories that would counter that statement.

I todays society we have a very rigid view when it comes to suicide. If you attempt suicide (and unsuccessful) you are labelled mentally ill and often can be charged or sectioned under the mental health act that effectively takes away your own liberty.. that liberty is free BTW, no-one gave it to you it’s effectively yours do do what you want with it.

Theres plenty of arguments for looking after those that are mentally ill or unable to make rational decisions, and those people should be looked after in loving environments. Not left to rot in a society that doesn’t effectively GAS.. which is pretty much where we are today.

Assisted suicide should be legal in the UK, I think it’s the irrational of society that is keeping it from being made into Law.

Very much agree. Suicide is the biggest cause of death of Lyme disease patients. We have a Government that is trying to sweep it under the table with Infectious Disease consultants being the biggest deniers. Add in the mix a medical profession that rolls its eyes as soon as the words 'Lyme disease' are mentioned. What a ****in' country to be 'living' in.

I have a very good friend who has wrestled with depression and thoughts of suicide and CBT seems to have turned his life around. I know everyone is different but this has worked for him.

He has a blog here https://www.lifeafloat.co.uk/blog/2019/8/14/the-man-who-jumped-from-a-ferry-part-1

Part 2 and three are worth it too. He has been very candid at all times and I'm sure this has helped him and others.

v8ninety

Subscriber

I also, really, REALLY despise pathetic attention seeking ‘cry for help’ type suicide attempts. This behaviour makes spotting and helping the people who have genuine need so much harder. I think that the ratio of genuine attempts vs ‘give me attention’ attempts must be 50:1.

It is virtually impossible to differentiate between cry for help suicide attempts and those with genuine needs for help; because sometimes/often a cry for help suicide attempt can be catastrophic. There are studies that state that a person attempts suicide 3 times before they are successful. So helping those cry for help suicide attempts are very important.
As earlier said - I believe that having a PD puts a person at more risk of suicide.
And whilst virtually everybody having a shit time will identify themselves as having depression nowadays - very few identify themselves as having a personality disorder.

But reading through the topics and threads of STW will identify the cluster C types .. histrionics, narcissistic, the plain old attention seekers.

mooman this isn't the thread for the type of language you're using, really isn't appropriate.

cinnamon_girl - Care to identify what language your referring to?

Mooman; agreed, regarding telling them apart. There’s people who genuinely need help. There’s also a growing raft of people who realise it’s a great way to get attention. It’s the second group whom I struggle with, not least because it makes the first group so hard to recognise and help.

And to clarify; my distaste for attention seeking behaviour does not think that I think these people should be ignored, for the reasons that we agree upon.

Our attitudes to suicide are paradoxical, it's a tragedy if you succeed but attention seeking if you don't. If you're successful then everyone is present, feels bad and wishes they saw the signs; if you're not then people distance themselves and are irritated then dismisses the problems.
If someone is suicidal, don't dismiss them

V8ninety - I’m not sure if your comments are aimed at me (I often feel like a bit of a fraud and additionally have a bit of a persecution complex so you might not be!) but I’d counter that anyone who is posting in here about this subject might feel your comments directed at them. After all being able to type means I’ve not gone through with it so I’m sat here now questioning if I’m just attention seeking.

I’m pretty sure I’m not, and in addition I’ve got a big dose of ‘don’t give a shit’ anyway. But it would be sad if people who needed to vent felt they couldn’t because you’d deem them attention seeking

Flange, I can only apologise to both you and anyone else I’ve offended/upset inadvertently with my clumsy grumbling. It certainly wasn’t aimed at yourself; the self insight you demonstrate entirely rules you out from the sort of cases that I was referring to. I spoke out of turn and I apologise.

No need to apologise mate - as I said I’m quick to think people are having a go at me.

It’s a complicated thing this depression - I started new meds yesterday and it’s properly thrown me off balance. Depression is a bastard

Hello to the other sufferers on the thread, a hug from me if it helps, and thank you to those who replied or mentioned me. faerie, I'm sorry, that is such a sad story. My dad died unexpectedly after a period of ill-feeling/hostility between us. I have spent a lot of my life since trying to 'be him' using my memory of what he was like as a model of what to be like, and, I suppose, to keep him alive in some way. So much so I'm confused about who 'I' am. In reply to a reply. actually I think it did help writing it down, thanks, for a while I reread what I had written over and over. I think I am encircled by my own 'low' view of the world. Little things that people do add up to damning condemnations of people's/the world's whole intransigent selfishness, and an idea of a hopeless situation. I think it used to be a way of keeping myself going -- because I know I am not as awful as Boris Johnson, for example -- being critical was comforting, now I feel overwhelmed by the 'badness' that I have 'read' into the world (although BJ, a man who won't acknowledge the children he has fathered through affairs and an arrogant liar, is still pretty awful, whatever your political ideas).

in my experience, a great deal of successful suicides are carefully planned, pre planned and considered, which points away from a lack of capacity.

I don't know what your experience is, but studies don't bear this out. In the us, where gun ownership is widespread, it's been shown as a result of interviews with survivors, that often the decision to take one's own life and acting on it are separated by minutes. That's why bridges have netting on them. If you make it more difficult often the impulse dissipates.

Always enjoy your threads SaxonRider! Best wishes to you and all the other sufferers on this thread. You are all doing great and please keep talking.

Del

Subscriber

I don’t know what your experience is, but studies don’t bear this out. In the us, where gun ownership is widespread, it’s been shown as a result of interviews with survivors, that often the decision to take one’s own life and acting on it are separated by minutes

If your post is not some weird tongue in cheek thing. Show me just one of these studies you reference please. People overwhelmingly shoot themselves in the head/face/neck if using a gun ... there wont be many in that study group to draw a reliable conclusion from.

I've no interest in scoring points on this thread.
The article I was specifically thinking of was this one : https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/02/making-a-different-case-for-guns-as-a-public-health-issue/

Tough couple of days for me too.

I often get confused thinking about the details that are causing it. Sometimes I can pin point something, other days it's just a huge wave of depression. Today I feel very anxious. I can't keep any concentration. I am noticing that social interactions are becoming more difficult for me. And it happens a lot at very short notice. Say I have planned to do a running race with the club. It would normally be a great way to meet others, have a random chat and enjoy the day together. As soon as I wake up that morning I get filled with dread and start to doubt why I'm going. I feel like I just want to be invisible when I get there and that nobody talk to me. I'll come across as reasonably normal, but maybe a little reserved. Now after a weekend of being in a social situation, I've curled up into myself feeling very vunerable. And I've got work to do, and lots of it needs doing today.

Really Feel for everyone on this thread, Faerie just a massive virtual hug 🙁

Ive been Off meds for most of this year and its been "OK" mostly, I can pretty much cope at the moment.
Just come home from Holiday to the news I am being given notice on my current contract, so we`ll see how that pans out in a couple of weeks.
Strangely im pretty calm about it, and looking forward to the change.

Suicide for me has been thought of at a very rational level at various times in my life, never as an emotional reaction.
The last time was earlier in the year and it was just a fleeting thing while I was in the garage.
But the thought of one of my kids finding me horrified me and it was gone.

I dont think people who have never experienced it, have any comprehension of how empty an existence it is living with Depression. its not sad, its not anxiety it is on the whole a massivley draining trudge through an absence of anything.
Its crazy how hard it is to just put one foot in front of the other some days, and how shattered you are at the end of it.
who thought feeling nothing for vast chunks of time could be so wearing....

On the whole things are ok now, but the black dog still visits from time to time