MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Looks like the Spanish Federation are proposing a 1 year ban for Contador, citing that there was no evidence to suggest doping.
You heard it here first. 😉
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-to-receive-one-year-ban-for-clenbuterol-positive
Contador stands to be stripped of his title in the Tour, his third victory in the race and fifth Grand Tour win.
Not actually correct from the cyclingnews lazy****s, the ban is just a proposal and might change, and there is no official mention of stripping the Tour. 🙄
I think WADA might step in and tear strips off the spanish and UCI if it is one year...
The next steps go something like this:
Spanish give homeboy a soft one year ban, meaning he will be back for the Vuelta.
WADA/UCI haul the whole thing off to CAS and we'll still be none the wiser in six months time as everyone starts appealing against each other.
Either way, any ban at all and he loses last year's Tour title.
and the clean texan wins again
Either way, any ban at all and he loses last year's Tour title.
Good point, my brane faid... 😥
what goes around, comes around
The one good thing to come out of this for him is that he's got his new employers a win without even riding a bike for them.
He didn't eat the 'tainted meat' that day.......I bet he was hoping by then it'd dropped out of his system more like and LOL that he nor his friend could recall which Butcher they'd bought said meat from!
If he had taken drugs they would be in his system for longer than a day, maybe it was tainted meat as the amount found in the test was a lot lower than they actually test for? There really shouldn't have been a ban
Ban them all I say, then have Le Tour and all that with the boyos from the local clubs.
Tango Man that's balls. The only acceptable level of clenbuterol in the body is zero. It is a non naturally occurring banned substance. They enforce strict liability. He had it in his system, he has to be banned.
The tainted meat story is so clearly an outrageous lie I'm amazed anyone is buying it. How can he say with any certainty "it was the meat guv"? He can't, it's straw grasping and nothing more. He most likely got it in his system by re-transfusing his own blood (supported by an alleged positive for plasticisers - evidence of IV usage). But that's speculation, albeit much more feasible than the meat story.
The amount was not lower than what they test for. It is lower than some other labs are capable of testing for, thats a crucial difference. There is no acceptable level for this drug.
Stuey, you have to remember that the outrageous lie is standard practice for pro cyclists that get caught out: remember Landis and his testosterone boosting beers, Simoni's cocaine cough sweets, Vandenbroucke keeping EPO for his dog.... I'm sure there are others.
I'm sure there are others.
Lance's bottom ointment? (well he had to be brought into it somehow).
Oh I know the outrageous lie is standard operating procedure for pro cyclists. What surprises me is that people are stupid enough to buy it.
I think justice would be a two year ban reduced to one year on appeal.
Followed by a validation of the plasticizer test and a two year ban for transfusing.
I'm sure there are others.
Notice how Lance rides on a bike in the Tour?
Notice how Contador and Ulrich rode in the Tours- a sniff of cheat wasn't there with them?
Still, people will always attack someone like Lance.
Yet another cyclist, who's achievements on a bike look too good to be true, is caught doping. Strict liability...regardless of excuse.
Look at Contadors 2009 TT stage win where he beat King Fabu and then battered people up the Ventoux.
Following year he scrapes 35th, 6 mins down on King Fabu.
As for Lance, his time will come , dont know why people defend him, doesnt even come across as a likeable person.
Aracer +1 - bottom ointment (OK Lance!)
@stuey01, who are you calling stupid.
[url= http://www.velonation.com/Photos/Photo-Album/mmid/614/mediaid/574.aspx ]Science bit for Stuey01[/url]
As for Lance, his time will come , dont know why people defend him, doesnt even come across as a likeable person
Taking its time isn't it?
Whereas Contador's collared within a year?
Tango Man - Member@stuey01, who are you calling stupid.
Science bit for Stuey01
Plus thus the whole of the RFEC, including Carlos Castaño, who I can tell you isn't stupid. Why have they issued a 12 month ban for Contador when others are given the full 2 years? Clearly Stuey01 has some info that he hasn't passed on to the authorites, naughty boy!
That 'expert opinion' report is flawed in that (as far as I can see from a skim read) it doesn't mention the possibility of an autologous transfusion.
As Stuey01 mentions the more likely explanation is he was using clenbuterol earlier in the season during a training block, and also took blood ready for a later transfusion in the TdF (probably assuming the clenbuterol was all gone from his system). He then transfused the blood on the rest day (the optimum day to do it), which in itself would be undetectable (although it's still unclear if plasticisers were detected or not - the UCI needs to come clean on that). Only because the blood he took was tainted there was still a trace amount that could be detected in his sample the day after.
If you could eliminate a transfusion as the cause then I agree accidental contamination seems likely as deliberately using clenbuterol at that stage in the TdF wouldn't have had any benefit to him so why risk it. However I've not seen anything that rules out a blood transfusion.
A 1yr ban? What kind of thread did he start?
All drugs will stay in the system for longer than a day, they can test, urine, blood, hair and they will all show traces of any banned substance, the amount found was so insignificant that it would not have helped his performance in any way, but, if it wasn't performance enhancing then why would he take it, even if you swap blood the traces would still be a lot higher than he tested for.
As for Lance, if he was taking stuff then surely they would have caught him by now, they have been after him since his first tour win yet found nothing, even with the advances in testing, is there not the slightest possibility that he is clean?
As for Lance, if he was taking stuff then surely they would have caught him by now, they have been after him since his first tour win yet found nothing, even with the advances in testing, is there not the slightest possibility that he is clean?
You should be banned for being perfectly rational.
probably assuming the clenbuterol was all gone from his system
He wouldn't of assumed anything, that blood would of been tested using a state of the art testing machine, however not as advanced as the one that found a 400th of what most machines find.
As for Mr. Armstrong, Contador's another in a long line of LAs teammates that have been found guilty of doping. So, for arguments sake Lance is clean, but he WOULD of known that his teammates were doping, Its far to organized for him not to, he would of seen spikes in their wattage and performance, he would of seen cool boxes with blood in. so if he is so clean and so against doping why didn't he do anything? answer me that hora
I agree on that.
Whats he supposed to do? It must be depressing for him but if he stood up (ended his career in cycling) and came out against them he'd risk tarnishing the whole sport and for those others (like him) who ride clean.
There will be a fair few in the Pelaton nowadays (due to the testing as well) that are clean. Lets face it in every walk of life there will always be those who want to win/be ahead at all costs. Those are the dopers in the Pelaton in this case.
Hes inbetween a rock and a hardplace. He'd contribute to damaging the sport and with fans.
What would you do?
You should be banned for being perfectly rational.
Cheers Hora 😆
okay, it's early so i'll bite. usually i don't as there's so many experts on sports physiology and the like on these threads i feel a bit, well, superfluous. but, as usual, all this talk of blood transfusion has me thinking.
now me, it'd have to be said, i could be described as very expert when it comes to iv drugs and their administration (now hold your horses, it's a professional thing). usually it takes me about two seconds to recognise if a person has had anything in the way of a blood transfusion or other iv in say, the last six to eight weeks. even allowing for the youth and relative health of these boys this should still be possible. plus, given the frequevcy of this supposed blood transfusing and the like, no infections, ever? i find that difficult to believe.
so, you say, they won't be getting their iv's in their arms because they show. good point, well made. ergo the site must be either hidden by the shorts or in their feet. even easier to spot.
maybe someone knows why the wada/uci etc etc are so rubbish. i've certainly never come across anything but it always piques my curiousity.
19,000 cattle were tasted for Clenbuterol in Spain 2008-9 with no positives.
If they were doping them, then surely they would have caught them by now, even with the advances in testing, is there not the slightest possibility that they are clean?
Wouldn't you inject under your balls, within the upper thigh?
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but after reading that, I'm backing out of here quickly 🙂
Tango Man - MemberAs for Lance, if he was taking stuff then surely they would have caught him by now, they have been after him since his first tour win yet found nothing, even with the advances in testing, is there not the slightest possibility that he is clean?
Marion Jones - tested far more than Lance - never failed a test, now known to have been sytematically doping all her career. Of course it is plausible that he was once step ahead of the testers.
Contador, the yellow jersey winner in Paris first in 2007 and then in 2009, [u]could [/u]be stripped of the 2010 Tour title. The only previous Tour winner to be stripped of the title was Floyd Landis in 2006.
From the BBC, and back to my pre brane faid position of the stripping of the Tour title is not for sure. In your face cyclingnewts!
even if you swap blood the traces would still be a lot higher than he tested for.
How do you come to that conclusion? If he'd used it a few days before he took blood during training and transfused that it would be even further diluted.
+1 for nostoc. the issue of cow doping irks me more than some teeny tiny group of road cyclists. who've been doing it forever. except greg lemond, obviously, who wud nevva. and may even be an incarnation of the baby jesus.
For me they're all doping. Road cycling will never be clean. Everyone keeps on going on about the new clean generation but it never arrives (or it does, but just gets completely overshadowed by the riders who continue to dope). Kinda gutted Contador will probably sit out the 2011 Tour as now Schleck will walk it.. would have been nice to see them fight it out, even if you know the top 15 have all been doping.
Still Vino should help keep it entertaining, even if he doesn't get near the podium.
He didn't need transfusions. His Uncle took them then passed them on orally to him
The only previous Tour winner to be stripped of the title was Floyd Landis in 2006.
Maurice Garin was stripped of his title in the 2nd tour in 1904. He was initial winner but then disqualified in the following December after an investigation.
If Contador was cheating in the 2010 Tour was Schleck clean?
Did you see the way he went after getting his chain back on after the incident on Port de Balès
now Schleck will walk it
Really? Basso was strong last year after racing the giro to, he's sitting it out this year, I think he'll be the man to beat, especially with Nibali as his right hand man
Think Schleck will just ride away from him in the mountains.. him and Contador were on a different level to everyone else last year, see how they played with Sanchez, who couldn't catch them despite all the trackstanding they started doing on the climbs. Not forgetting Andy will have Frank to help him this time round. Basso should podium, but don't think he'll win it.
Did you see the way he went after getting his chain back on after the incident on Port de Balès
Maybe he was pissed off.
Haha you reckon hora? he did look slightly miffed off!
I'd like to think Schleck is clean, comes across as a top bloke
It is an interesting point about Schleck, if Contador doped and he could stay with him in the mountains then it does raise questions. He has shown a lot more weaknesses in the past though so probably deserves the benefit of the doubt for now...
He has shown a lot more weaknesses in the past though so probably deserves the benefit of the doubt for now...
I don't accept that, you can't have it all ways. Benefit of the doubt for one, yet guilt beyond reasonable doubt for others.
I'd like to think Schleck is clean, comes across as a top bloke
Contador comes across OK in Spanish, too. I'd have liked him to be clean, as well.
I fail to see why performances fluctuating between weakness and being one of the best climbers in the world should be a reason for giving benefit of the doubt.
I don't accept that, you can't have it all ways. Benefit of the doubt for one, yet guilt beyond reasonable doubt for others.
You don't have to accept it and I can have it whatever way I want, I'm stating my opinion not fact. If some fishy stories/circumstantial evidence came out about Schleck then I'd stop giving him the benefit of the doubt to. Others probably already think he's dirty and others will think he's clean until proven guilty, that's their prerogative.
You know about F. Schleck and Dr Fuentes, then?
highly circumstantial for Schleck minor, admittedly
I'm stating my opinion not fact.
Of course you can, but you lose any credibility, in my eyes.
riding for B Riis - not the slightest circumstantial whiff of fish?
Lance, clean? Hahahahaha etc.
Unfortunately cycling is like lots of other corrupt parts of human society and endeavor. If your face fits, you get away with it because the corruption is institutionalised.
Lance was too benefical to cycling to get caught at his peak. Floyds face doesn't fit, and Contadors did until his support dramatically dropped among fans and officials due partly to chaingate. Now he is a valid target in the attrition against drugs in the peloton.
Bring it on I'd say. I just wish they'd deal with the dopers even when they are in a position of power and at their peak.
if some fishy stories/circumstantial evidence came out about Schleck then I'd stop giving him the benefit of the doubt to
Research FAIL
I'm aware of the Fuentes stuff with Frank and ofc Riis's past and him being Andy's previous DS but those alone don't pass my personal guilty test as they are both more indirect links, I wouldn't argue that he's clean to someone stating he's a doper though.
Waderider, I always thought the 'French have it in for him'.
So how does your conspiracy theory work in France?
Just as a totally irrelevant point I thought I'd mention that I saw Riis and Contador close up in November as team Saxobank had a team building thing at the centre where I was windsurfing (I don't know whether the centre owner upgrading me when I started making a fuss about how worn out the boards were has anything to do with that 😉 ). I resisted the temptation to describe Riss as "Mr 60%".
fail to see why performances fluctuating between weakness and being one of the best climbers in the world should be a reason for giving benefit of the doubt
Have you tried riding over 120 miles a day as fast as you can without having an off day? Does not sound easy to me. i knwo when I ride dailysome days - for no apparent reason I have dead legs the next day I can be back in the zone
Have you tried riding over 120 miles a day as fast as you can without having an off day? Does not sound easy to me. i knwo when I ride dailysome days - for no apparent reason I have dead legs the next day I can be back in the zone
So you're comparing yourself to the fittest men in the world?
They train their entire life, 6 hours a day so they can perform everyday, fluctuating performance by a top rider like Schleck is very suspicious
Tango Man, thanks for the science, unfortunately all it does is point out that there have been other cases of clen poisoning from meat and that contador tested at a low concentration. It then makes a huge leap to state that ingestion from the alleged Spanish beef is extremly likely, without even considering other methods of getting into his system, i.e autologous blood doping.
Don Simon your faith in the Spanish cycling authorities to go after their best asset is touching though I fear missplaced. They been trying as hard as contador to get out of this, and they have previous. They only booked Valverde after they were basically forced to do so.
Junkyard - You and I are not proffessional athletes.
Granted, the guy isn't always riding to win. Just that if I had to pick a factor to justify giving the benefit of the doubt to a professional cyclist it would be consistency of performance not variability.
I'm not picking on Schlecklet in particular, I have a very cynical view of pro cycling.
fluctuating performance by a top rider like Schleck is very suspicious
Aye sometimes they are dying on their ass during a stage and really need that rest day coming up.
It seems highly unlikely that Contador ingested clenbuterol from consuming beef as its not licensed to be used on animals for human consumption in Europe, in any case he would be more likely to be contaminated if he ate cattle liver that could cause lung problems anyway, so if he has been using clenbuterol then he is very foolish as it can cause serious health problems never mind the cheating.
True- why the 'my friend bought me beef from a Butcher'. Which one? 'we can't remember'.
hora - Member
Waderider, I always thought the 'French have it in for him'.So how does your conspiracy theory work in France?
Despite the French public not liking LA much, the TDF love him - not publically maybe but Lance has been great for the race financially - huge interest from round the world which leads to sponsorship/etc.
As to the discussion about inconsistent/consistent performances, it's been argued both ways for years and history (eg riders since known to have cheated) shows that doping neither makes you consistent or not - some riders simple are more consistent than others.
Perhaps they only told him it was beef.
This Saxobank teambuilding camp... I wonder where it was?
So while extracting blood during their training camp, he'd accidentally ingested clembuterol? Along with the plasticisers 😉
All riders bend the rules, some more than others. I can't see any rider being 100% clean throughout their career. Think it’s a shame that Alberto has had a ban on a technicality, but other leaders of tours have had their jerseys removed without ever being tested positive, so can’t see how he can complain.
Anyway, I can imagine Alberto wrapping up his yellow jersey and posting 2nd class to Andy now. Think it might be a bit on the small size.
Think it’s a shame that Alberto has had a ban on a technicality
Eh, what technicality? that he was caught doping??
Wouldn't he have been at the Astana training camp - or was this also in the Canaries?
Sure was. All I'm trying to say is that all riders dope, some more than others. I agree he should have had a ban, but I was refering to, it wasn't in the same vain as people like Landis that's all.
It's like you can't be a bit pregnant...
Its a whole sorry affair, dopers just ruin the entire of pro cycling. I love pro cycling but its getting harder and harder to perceive true talent when speculation about doping surrounds all the top players.
I mean, even Schleck who I would never expect to be a doper. You get a young man getting better and better over the seasons until he reaches the top of the game and then is performing on par with a doper. The uncertainty of not knowing if its raw talent and hardwork or drugs takes away all the majestic of the triumphs.
Dopers convicted with 100% certainty should have life time bans or shot out of a canon.
gravitysucks - MemberIf Contador was cheating in the 2010 Tour was Schleck clean?
Did you see the way he went after getting his chain back on after the incident on Port de Balès
A point I've made a couple of times - given how much time Schleck took out of his TT performance, you do have to wonder how exactly he improved that much in a year, when his body shape allegedly doesn't suit TTs
Yeh thats what annoys me about the whole affair, if you get good enough your almost to good. He could be a genuine talent but the dopers shadow over the sport ruins it.
It makes you wonder if we could ever have a genunie talent to be proud of. If wiggo suddenly takes a podium this year (certainly within his capabilties) would people automatically think drugs after last years performance? and Wiggo's def a rider I would put down as having a totally clean career, whenever that ends.
What about Lance going to his grave knowing that he was clean?
Dopers convicted with 100% certainty should have life time bans or shot out of a canon.
It's a nice idea, but would mean the end of all the great tour riders in history. Drugs will and has always been a part of our sport, to a greater or lesser extent. Personally I don't feel it makes them any less of a rider.
gravitysucks - Memberand Wiggo's def a rider I would put down as having a totally clean career, whenever that ends.
You've got to be kidding me! How naive are you? Have you read any of "Wiggo's" statements regarding Lance and Landis? The guy totally supports the Omerta in the Peleton. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. If he was really innocent he'd be supporting the likes of Landis and Kimmage for blowing the sport open and going after the real truth, not the manufactured idea of truth that Contadoper, Pharmstrong and Schleck want you to believe.