[Closed] compact system cameras

Putting it politely the eos m isn't the best bet.

Look at Olympus and Panasonic for m4/3 or Sony NEX for aps/c.

I'd look at a Sony Nex 3 or 5 personally (there's a couple of generations of each available to suit the budget). Molgrips will be along shortly to recommend Olympus, closely followed by Cougar to recommend Panasonic. Nobody will recommend an eos m (probably).

tbf i thought it was strange as the chap didnt even go through any of the other brands!

I expect he's got a storeroom full of eos-ms he can't shift 😉

😆

There's a huge amount of Canon/Nikon fanbo-ism, for some reason. I don't think it's entirely justified and it edges out other manufacturers who make good stuff.

5e is the Eos-m supposed to be bad? I read a few good tihngs about it.

shuffles in.....

looks sheepish......

.....Nikon 1......cough....

wanders off......

(PS - I am not a professional camera advisor).....

why the cough and shuffle? i thought the 1 was a fairly good camera (judging by the reviews)?

You might like to have a shufti at this:

[b]Fujifilm X20: A classically styled, 12oz compact camera with an upgraded sensor and optical zoom[/b]
http://www.coolhunting.com/tech/fujifilm-x20-camera.php
The price is in your ballpark, too.

conuntzero...reminds me of the cameras my dad had! would like something a little more modern in apperance as i'm nt a big fan of the retro look

Depends on the type of photography you do.
Is it to take pics of bikes/riders or take landscapes/snapshots whilst out riding?

I am a photographer and a mtb rider so tell me what you want to take photos of and whether you are prepared to carry multiple lenses...

Basicly
avoid the eos-m - focus speed so slow its useless for anything except still life
For landscapes / snapshots - sony nex 5R is good (best quality sensor)
For action shots / olympus e-pl5 or e-pm2 as focus speed is unbeatable
Panasonic GX1 or GFs are ok, produce funny reds but ok if you dont mind post processing

The best compact camera out at the moment is the sony RX100 hands down.

hi rich... it will be for general pic taking. wildlife shots whilst out with the dog/fishing (have several kingfishers that regulaly fish next to me at my club lakes, buggers catch whilst i dont!!!). small enough to take out riding but with more control and better quality than a point and shoot. plus landscapey stuff when out walking. i dont really want to take a mahoosive slr around with a load of lenses and i dont think that i would use it to its full potential...hth

Loving my Panasonic Lumox GF1 with 20m lens here.

Also like my lumix G1 which I got as a small handy camera to use when the Nikon D300 was a bit too much.

The D300 got sold not long after my Lumix G1.

i use the realativley small olyympus epm1, good qulity pics for the price i paid, also got a huge deal on the fantastic panasonic 20mm f1.8 pancake lens.
the focus on the epm1 combined with the pany f1.8 is not as quick as the stock lens.
whilst it is a small setup when on the mtb i often stil reach for the water/shockproof sony tx5 that is tiny and fast.
walking and sight seeing etc i go for the epm1 and at night of course the pany 1.8 lens
also worth noting the video capability on the epm1 is not great nor is macro unless you get different lens

Lumix GF5, sir?

conuntzero...reminds me of the cameras my dad had! would like something a little more modern in apperance as i'm nt a big fan of the retro look

The retro look IS the modern look, currently!

also worth noting the video capability on the epm1 is not great

Better on later models though. The E-PM2 has the great sensor from the top of the line Olys, which is apparently really good.

Panasonic GX1 user here. Nice camera - significant step up from a point and shoot, lots of control. Size is good too, not too big (especially if you go for the powerzoom lens), but a good heft to it.

🙄 its as bad as asking which bike!!! 😆
i guess its a case of demoing a few in the shops then? see which feels best?

reminds me of the cameras my dad had! would like something a little more modern in apperance as i'm nt a big fan of the retro look

fair point count... especially as it'll be in a bike bag quite alot..

daftvader....I was being 'funny' after the comment from molgrips about Canon and Nikon fanboi-ism.

2 of my mates have got Nikon 1's and they do take really good pictures. We've also got one in the lab at work and it works really well. Better than I thought it would ,to be honest.

stumpy...guess its on the list as well then!

5e is the Eos-m supposed to be bad? I read a few good tihngs about it.

I'd look at an Fuji X20 and of Canon G15 if you want a view finder

If you camera is to over lap with biking then good AF is a must

SO phase detect autofocus will help

That's Nikon 1 or Fuji X20 od Nex 5r

I found this X20 review compelling

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/fujifilm_x20_review/

hi rich... it will be for general pic taking. wildlife shots whilst out with the dog/fishing (have several kingfishers that regulaly fish next to me at my club lakes, buggers catch whilst i dont!!!). small enough to take out riding but with more control and better quality than a point and shoot. plus landscapey stuff when out walking. i dont really want to take a mahoosive slr around with a load of lenses and i dont think that i would use it to its full potential...hth

OK know one has mentioned anything remotely wildlife capable. Me included. You need lot of zoom. I have taken ok wild life shots on an older zoon. Panasonic Fz5

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This list might help for finding a compact super zoom

http://www.imaging-resource.com/WB/WB.HTM?view=dp_long

http://www.cameralabs.com/buyers_guide/superzoom/best_superzoom_camera.shtml

On you budget you could almost do a pocket camera and superzoom. One for biking and one for fishing. Most camera should give good IQ these days

theres the thing, i dont mind getting a second lense with high zoom capability. it isnt going to be on there for the cycling side of things, but when i am out doing other stuff an extra bit of kit isnt going to be a problem.

Olympus do a 70-300mm zoom for micro 4/3. I have a full sized lens with the same specs, and it is usable hand held in many conditions. It's equivalent to 600mm in old money, any more and you would start needing support.

Quite small too.

i am used to holding long things!!! 😉
its just another tech minefield isnt it?

Olympus e510 here got it off ebay and so far so good 4/3 so not as weildy as a full size

sorry for stupidity.... whats 4/3?

earl_brutus, e-510 is an SLR, although they are pretty small for an SLR they're still quite a bit bigger than compact systems. However, it's worth noting that I picked up an e-420 SLR, which is apparently the smallest ever made, in sparkling new condition for £120 including lens. No image stabilisation, limited ISO range, and not the fastest continuous shooting speed but a tiny real SLR for peanuts!

daftvader - 4/3 is the lens fitting system used by Olympus. Micro 4/3 is a different (but related) smaller system used on compact system cameras, and is used by many manufacturers. Most manufacturers have their own lens fit system, but micro 4/3 is supposed to be an open standard.

cheers molgrips. may look for a small body slr for comparison. lots to learn and even more choice than i initially thought.... my brain hurts!

I don't think it's an open standard.

Ok Good plan. Mirrorless with 2 lenses

So not Nikon 1 the long lens isn't long enough

Not NEX as longer lenses are limited and pricey and not long enough

Not Canon EOS as its slow to focus and feautures 2 lenses

So Micro fourthird it is. I'd look for a twin lens kit with the longer lens at least 200mm

You might find a used G3 twin lens kit for that. Or is it £400 and extra for the second lens?

i think it'll be about £400 for the initial get me started kit... then once i get the hang of it i will look at extra lenses etc

I wouldn't worry too much about 'long' lenses. Anything around 150mm on m4/3 or 200mm on nex is as long as you need unless you start to get into specialist uses.

cool. thanks for all the advice everyone.
hopfully i will be able to get what i need/want and start taking some non phone pics 🙂

I'm a big fan of the Micro 4/3rds system - there's some great lenses available and the sensors are really quite good now. I still use the first generation G1/GF1 with decent results.

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/grum_wynne/6214408423/ ]Biscuit[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/grum_wynne/ ]Grum Wynne[/url], on Flickr

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/grum_wynne/4461219922/ ]GF1 and 20mm Macro - w/ Raynox DCR 250[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/grum_wynne/ ]Grum Wynne[/url], on Flickr

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/grum_wynne/5448479212/ ]20100308-Lancaster March 8th 2010-1040746[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/grum_wynne/ ]Grum Wynne[/url], on Flickr

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/grum_wynne/5448686578/ ]Crashing Waves[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/grum_wynne/ ]Grum Wynne[/url], on Flickr

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[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/grum_wynne/4632127172/ ]Williamson Park Butterfly House[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/grum_wynne/ ]Grum Wynne[/url], on Flickr

I'm not a big fan of my 45-200 though - it's very soft at the longer end. Some people seem to have better copies than me though. The 100-300mm looks much better.

nice grum! looks like 4/3 is the way forward....
how trustworthy is the second hand market for lenses?

I am another partial micro 4/3 convert - bought a used E-PL1 for a pittance with the kit lens (which is pretty reasonable as they go) and the 15mm f8 bodycap lens which is an absolute blast (and I have been using it a LOT... to the detriment of my Nikons which come from the pricey end of the current market).

The intention was to be a replacement for my Canon S90 that died a death - which had been my biking camera of choice - but I have been using it for a load more than that. I haven't taken anything overly Earth shattering with it as yet, due to time constraints more than anything, but I can see it's potential (and I can gain some sales from locations that in the past my compact wasn't producing high enough quality files in).

I can see me upgrading to one of the posh Olympus jobs in the coming months....

nice grum! looks like 4/3 is the way forward....

Ta - remember there is a distinction between 4/3 and Micro 4/3 though (with some crossover but only in one direction!)

how trustworthy is the second hand market for lenses?

I've bought quite a few from talk photography forums without any issues. Only from people with good feedback though.

(and I can gain some sales from locations that in the past my compact wasn't producing high enough quality files in).

What kind of stuff are you selling?

I've got a GF5. I really like the x-lens 14-45 for the pocketabiity of it. Makes for a nicely compact camera - although I've had some issues (blurry shots that really should be sharp) at small aperture that I haven't looked in to.

I also went for the 45-200mm tele - I think I made a mistake and should have gone for the much more compact 45-150 - which would get more use.

I'm still going to add a wide aperture pancake lens or two for biking shots and maybe a macro lens over time.

i think that i will be driving mrs vader mad in the next month with near constant research, trips to camera shops etc.
looks like getting a base unit with a decent all purpose lense is the most sensible option and then getting another one or two once i am comfortable with the main functions. a course will probably be on the cards too

Landscape/travel/general outdoorsy stuff in the main. The D800E knocks the spots off the m4/3 Oly, but it is a lot more to carry on the mountain bike/motorbike! The little PEN is only just suitable IF the exposure is nailed and the light is perfect - there isn't much latitude to tinker much, but in the right circumstances it is producing some really nice and vivid files.

Even with the cheapo 15mm toy lens 😉 (Actually especially with it!)

I wish I had easier manual control though, hence why I am considering an upgrade - probably on the list if I can get a good few months in - but it isn't pressing!

I don't think it's an open standard.

Badly worded I suppose - it's not limited to one manufacturer. Most cameras use proprietary lens mounts, but m4/3 has several manufacturers making cameras with the same fit.

Re telephoto lenses - I have a 40-150 and a 70-300 (which are the same lengths as the Oly m4/3 lenses). The shorter one is great for taking photos for general stuff and particularly people. They can be close enough for you to still be 'with' them but far enough so they don't notice you taking pictures. The shallow DoF produces some lovely results

70-300 I only take when trying to get photos of wildlife. Which is a bit pointless as actual wildlife is almost always still too far away when I'm walking through the woods, and tame wildlife is cheating! You may get better results if you are in the right places. I still use it a lot though because I'm basically an optimist. I have however got a couple of nice pics of people and objects when I haven't been bothered to take it off the camera.

I wouldn't worry too much about 'long' lenses. Anything around 150mm on m4/3 or 200mm on nex is as long as you need unless you start to get into specialist uses.

Wildlife photography is Specialist. Kingfishers doubly so...

I dont think it has been pointed out above that the Sony Nex range is not micro 4/3 - it uses bespoke Sony lenses.
However the screen was great and flipped up which I thought was really useful but I found the graphic images for the controls a bit grey and spindly which I thought would not be read easily in the real world.
also flash was bolt on

I ended up with the GF5 with the collapsing X lens and integrated flash which makes it nice and small. The screen it good but does not flip, but it is touch screen which does make getting at some of the controls very easy.

N

I dont think it has been pointed out above that the Sony Nex range is not micro 4/3 - it uses bespoke Sony lenses.

The main differenece between m4/3 is Sony use a larger sensor. The same size as a standard dslr, in fact in general they use the same sensor as Nikon, Pentax and Sony dslrs.

Having said that, Olympus use a sligthly smaller version of the same Sony sensors in their latest cameras, so there's very little to choose between the two systems now. You could do worse than picking the one that looks or feels the best.

If you go for 4/3 get the 45mm F1.8 Oly lens. It's amazing for the price.

Ampthill I have a trick with the kingfishers. .. a handful of maggots opposite where I am fishing and they always turn up for the small silvers it brings in 8)
I am going to have a look at london camera exchange in Winchester and see what they have, worth a shout?
I am liking the look of the Panasonic lumix atm.... but thats bound to change!!

Well, for wildlife, as others said, you'll need a long lens.
This changes my recommendation considerably, as Sony NEX's only long lens isn't that sharp, and the focus is too slow for wildlife.

I'd recommend a Olympus E-PL5 (or wait until tomorrow and they will announch the E-P5!! - but that will cost a lot more) with the kit zoom lens.

Then add a 45mm f1.8 lens (plenty of new ones on ebay, because they were given away free with Olympus OM-D cameras for a while) for people shots and close wildlife. Outstanding lens for the money.

Also add a 75-300mm (the Panasonic 300mm lens is sharper, and has better stabillisation and is fully compatible with Olypus bodies).

They you are sorted. I used most compact system cameras and this would be the best choice for your budget.

Have a look at www.camerapricebuster.co.uk for the latest best prices for the above.

Rich

This changes my recommendation considerably, as Sony NEX's only long lens isn't that sharp, and the focus is too slow for wildlife.

What they do have is the LA-EA2 adapter which gives you full phase detect AF, along with proper tracking, for use with any alpha-mount lens. You then have access to wide range of excellent long lenses.

But.. the m4/3 75-300 is very expensive, as is the LA-EA2 and one of many lenses. All quite specialist kit.

Dunno if it's kosher to mention it here, but I am selling a Panasonic G1 body, a G2 body, a 14-45 and a 45-200. Looking for about 50% of the new price, so mail me if you're interested ...

Drj cheers but am waiting for some cash to come in and im not too sure when that'll be (solicitors and they're crappy time frames)
I am now definitely getting brain melt from all the choices. Panasonic and olympus seem to br front runners atm....

Just to add to the brain melt...

Olympus use in-body stabilisation. So whatever lens you put on it will be stabilised, even a 50 year old manual focus lens.

Panasonic use in-lens stabilisation, and not all their lenses are stabilised (their prime lenses for example).

Starts to gibber in a corner and cry slightly 😥

Daftvader, I was in a similar situation a few days ago (but with a smaller budget) and couldn't decide what to get. Wanted something for holidays and riding photos. Ended up spending £160 on a refurbished Olympus EPM1 which so far looks like it will do a good job. And because it wasn't too expensive I wont have any issues with selling it and upgrading in a couple of months if I find that it's a bit limiting.

Just get the Oly. You'll be fine with it.

WNB I might be interested in an e-pm1 in a few months' time.. after I've paid off the track frame I just bought 😳

5thelephant image stability (if thats what you mean), on reflection, is actually quite important. I have a permanent hand tremor which can be controlled if I really concentrate, but any help is always good on that score.
Whatnobeer I have been thinking along those lines (mostly to quiet mrs vader!!)

Image stabilisation is always good, yes.

[url= http://www.ebay.de/itm/OLYMPUS-E-PL3-1442mm-II-R-DIGITAL-KAMERA-SYSTEMKAMERA-DIGITALKAMERA-NEU-/390591326079?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Digitalkameras&hash=item5af10ea77f ]PSA[/url]

after I've paid off the track frame I just bought

😆

Extremely excited about this.. all these camera purchases and I forgot I desperately wanted one.

[url= http://www.ebay.de/itm/OLYMPUS-OBJEKTIV-75-300mm-ZUIKO-DIGITAL-PEN-NEU-/330920353062?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Objektive&hash=item4d0c63dd26 ]Might also want to keep an eye on this.[/url]

Ive been after a decent camera for a couple of years but other things always crop up instead... now I have the go ahead from mrs vader for a new camera and a new bike... happy days!

Edit... are you in Germany molgrips?

No, I used to be.. but that site is the European clearing centre for Olympus factory refurbs I think. They speak English, are good to deal with and ship over here.

well worth keeping an eye on then. cheers