[Closed] Cocaine/Cannibis users - what are the long term symptoms of combining these?

A very laid back frenzied friend who constantly rubs their nose nonchalantly?

ask FRANK

Here's an instructional video:

http://tinyurl.com/69cjxk

For slightly more accurate advice, I'd say go and look at the "ask frank" website thing the government put up. However, if you want a slightly more general versions...

Cocaine: Symptoms of cocaine use are things like having too much money, being loud and obnoxious at parties, and parts of your nose falling out. Serious symptoms are mood swings, depression and full-on addition to the evil stuff thanks to the body's way of using the neurochemical it releases in the brain to put down strong memories for you.

Cannabis: Symptoms include eating a lot of crisps, sitting around a lot giggling like a girl at the drop of a hat. Serious symptoms would be depression, tiredness and possible weight gain.

If you really want to find out what to look for, and you are genuinely worried about someone using the above, you really should be using something like a drug awareness website.

Yes, it is a serious question. Can anyone recommend any drug awareness sites that are genuinely constructive/informative? I would like to understand more, I am not looking to intervene as I dont feel its my place.

erowid.com for user's perspectives.

Also depends on how much use, there's a big difference to someone having a big night out every now and then, and daily use. In the former case you'd probably only ever know if you were out with them at the time.

Habitual lying, Narnia levels of fantasy world?

The Southern Yeti - Member

Narnia levels of fantasy world?

Narnia, the mythical kingdom that manages to combine a landscape dusted in a liberal coating of white powder with a fervent and insatiable desire for Turkish delight. A drug enthusiast's nirvana.

If you want the truth, ask someone who's on the stuff, not government propaganda websites.

Nose falling out, my arse! 😆 I don't smoke so have never done cannabis, but i have done quite a lot of the other, hanging out with muscians and club DJ's-
I can assure you the only damage to my nose is from punches to the face as a kid!
I'm neither paranoid, hyper OR, as anyone who knows me, far from underweight!
nor am i disposed to take heavier drugs( i take it you mean smack) tho i have tried other fun stuff that gets touted as highly addictive, and guess what? It aint.
Its a personality with certain traits that gets addicted to ANY substance and the substance is used as a psychological crutch - something to blame, and this type of person will always portray themself as the victim. Its circumstances fault, its the drugs fault, its my bosses fault, i was raped and bummed as a child... yadda yadda, they can never accept personal responsibility for thier own actions or misfortune.
I'll grant you i'm loud and obnoxious, but i was like this well before 1989!

Dont believe the bollocks, folk.

Back in my day people's eyes usually a good sign. Pin-eyes = junkies. Glassy = something in tablet form, valium etc. Red = marijuana.

And lying to you and stealing your stuff, borrowing money and never giving it back also indicators.

Oh yeah and add paranoia that seems to be a symptom of all drug use, or possibly a cause.

They're very different drugs, not many people would really use both, IME.

Cannabis isn't addictive, and doesn't really have any long term effects, unless used constantly (arguable). You will probably only be able to find out if someone does use cannabis if they've done it within an hour or two, and are still stoned. Look at their eyes, smell their clothes and hair. If you see king size rizlas lying around then its a big sign. Especially if they don't smoke tobacco.

Cocaine is a very nasty drug. Its more likely that they're into MCat, have a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephedrone

Its very nasty that stuff. And you can buy it online legally (I think... have a look at this http://absolutelylegal.co.uk/default.asp its disgraceful - MCat is a plant food type thing)

Miow / Mcat is another with a bad press it doesnt deserve.
Now i absolutely am FPMSL! plantfood!

Right, for a start it isnt plantfood! Its ,marketed as such to get round legality.
Its syntheses is very close to MDMA methdioxymethylamphetamine. E to you, its also a chemical synthese of of the active ingrediant of Khat plants, hence the name miow, Africans have been chewing Ghat / Khat leaves for generations without adverse affects

The problems with the drug in this country lie in naive teenagers doing far far too much and mixing it with barbiturates and alcohol, this is the lethal and dangerous combination.

FYI: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18712-miaowmiaow-on-trial-truth-or-trumpedup-charges.html?full=true#bxdn18712B1

Africans have been chewing Ghat / Khat leaves for generations without adverse affects

And something that is chemically engineered to be similar to something that *might* not be all that bad isn't necessarily safe.

Cannabis isn't addictive, and doesn't really have any long term effects

Complete balls. Many people I know still smoke the stupid stuff thirty-odd years down the line. They don't think they're addicted either...

If a person smoking weed doesn't want anyone to know they're smoking it then it can be very difficult to sometimes tell. I smoked it for about 15 years and only my close friends new I was a smoker.
A regular smoker will be able to funtion very normally as you quickly build up a tolerance to it.
Smoking it does give you blood shot eyes but you can buy eye whitener to disguise that. The only giveaway for me would be the smell of it if you were carrying some. It has a very strong distinctive smell.
As for Cocaine, I was only a social user so can't really comment.
Realman, I would argue the fact that you think it isn't addictive? Maybe not phsically but certainly psychologically. I still get very stong cravings and I stopped a couple of years ago.

Re the OP: it depends whether you're looking for evidence to prove a theory or are genuinely concerned about someone's welfare. FWIW plenty of people who use both hold down difficult jobs and are exemplary parents. So, there may not be an behavioural giveaways at all. Your best bet is regular amounts of cash being withdrawn and nothing to show for it (unless dealers have started taking paypal).

I know a girl who has had daily nosebleeds for over a year (possibly longer). Shes looking into lasering to stop this however she obviously still enjoys snorting the stuff so isn't looking for the fix yet.

Cannabis isn't addictive, and doesn't really have any long term effects

Why do you want to know? Unless their behaviour is impacting on you (your kids or said 'users' kids) then I seriously doubt that their personal life has aything to do with you.

Do you remember all the scare story's about MDMA in the 80's and 90's, a synthesised drug?- Mood swings, paranoia, brain cell death, long term mental health problems i can go on..

Now research has proven it is the safest drugs out there, far safer then the big legal two,and now with 30 years use and evidence there seems to be non of the side effects that were mentioned in the scare mongering of the day?

Hora, ever considered she may have had an underlying nasal blood vessel problem before her use? Granted using isnt helping matters...

There are no signs. Some people conform to stereotypes, some don't. Best bet is ask them? Try for a non judgemental/ blaming way. Like "such and such says you do coke, is that true? why, Whats it like?" Bare in mind that plenty of people take drugs and don't become homeless or prostitutes.

If you are concerned about your friend in a OH MY GOD!!! DRUGGSSSSS! Kind of way, don't worry so much. If their behaviour has become strange to you, ask them why they do certain things (change of friends/social scene, change of routine/ personal focus etc) If you are worried about their immediate health (increasingly erratic behaviour, looking ill, mental health concerns) then you need to speak to them, but again, don't blame or say things like "why do you do it to yourself" as this will stop them wanting to talk to you.

essentially, whilst under the influence, coke makes people pushy, gobby, the life of the party (in their head) and flu like symptoms the next day. Marijuana makes people think they are insightful and clever, whilst lying on the floor staring at the walls. Lots of talking, slowly about unusual subjects. Signs of use include cigarettes with no tobacco in them (but paper and filter still in place) large rolling papers, strong smell. Coke doesn't really have any signs short term, perhaps more/less money?

you shouldn't worry too much about casual drug use, if its "just at weekends etc" its no different really to alcohol. There are definite risks involved but thats the case with most things.

To be honest unless you are concerned that there is an immediate issue, I'd steer clear of getting involved, people don't like being told how to live their lives, especially by people who don't subscribe to their ideals.

HTH

Hora, ever considered she may have had an underlying nasal blood vessel problem before her use? Granted using isnt helping matters...

Epic-user apparently so either its a big coincidence or its linked.

Epic use, fair enough,i can see that causing a problem- but to use that much anyhow i'd say she has bigger problems in her life?

missuse of the legal drugs to such levels would be dangerous to health also, some people don't know when enough is enough

epic user apparantly? Someone could say you like riding on a polish bike, doesn't make it true though. Unless of course you do.

Someone could say you like riding on a polish bike, doesn't make it true though. Unless of course you do.

definitely speak to the person in question.. there's no other rational course of action..

I know of some folk that benefit from using illegal drugs by way of infinitely increasing their potential as a human being..
I know of others that have taken illegal drugs and turned into completely odeous and miserable creatures akin to Gollum..
I know of yet others who enjoy illegal drugs as you or I might enjoy an occasional real ale or good wine or a meal..

I had a good old stint on a bit of everything in my past and now prefer to give all of it a wide berth..

meehaja speaks alot of sense in his post above

The person I am curious about - Distorted beliefs about every day stuff and inability to see they are distorted however much logic is ignored in order to continue believing the distorted belief. Very paranoid views of situations and people. Saying something and 2 days later having no real recall of the discussion, let alone details. Massive mood swings from saying people are wonderful to hating them with a vengeance. General overall mood swing from 'not interested in designer wear snobbery, being competitive is not my thing at all, not attention seeking' to 'centre of the room, all must be designer quality, obsession with competitive behaviour' as rough example of mood/personality swing.
I know they did used to take both cocaine and cannabis regularly and in close time frames ie multiple doses in same week of each drug. I just wonder if this 'personality' is the result of long term use, if they are back on biggish doses or if its just their basic personality and nothing at all to do with what they have taken.

Does it impact on me?
Yes.
Do I want to become further involved or intervene on a personal level? No.
Am a puzzled by the behaviour?
Yes, so I want to understand it for my own benefit.
I dont wish to discuss it with the person. I dont think it would benefit either of us to make it into a personal discussion. They have plenty of family/associates if they want help and they seem to see no signs of personality issues in themselves, so I cant see them wanting 'help' as they seem happy even if they are a pain in the ass to other people.

Maybe so hora. Still you're the one juddging someone bassed on what someone else has told you. Do you have any evedence that she is an epic user? Or is it banter due to her nose bleed?

I agree broadly with meehaja

If you have other things in your life apart from the drugs it means the drugs are unlikely to take over you life. A couple of lines of coke on a saturday night is one thing - spending friday to sunday every week in a major coke frenzy is another altogether

Coke turns people into stroppy aresholes. Ruins your cardiovascular system when done to excess- heat attacks and strokes.

Cannabis just makes folk dull. Ruins your lungs as well

Mepedrone is just a weak version of Es Of no great concern. Its been banned now anyway so quality and strength will go down and price will go up.

then I seriously doubt that their personal life has aything to do with you.

The person I am curious about - Distorted beliefs about every day stuff and inability to see they are distorted however much logic is ignored in order to continue believing the distorted belief. Very paranoid views of situations and people. Saying something and 2 days later having no real recall of the discussion, let alone details. Massive mood swings from saying people are wonderful to hating them with a vengeance. General overall mood swing from 'not interested in designer wear snobbery, being competitive is not my thing at all, not attention seeking' to 'centre of the room, all must be designer quality, obsession with competitive behaviour' as rough example of mood/personality swing.

Sounds like my teenage daughter!!

It went something along the lines of

"I coughed blood up last night" (just a casual throw-out there comment).

I heard and said I BEG your pardon? (contrary to popular belief I actually do care you know).

It then transpired that the girl regularly did this as 'in her sleep her nose bleeds ran downwards, some inside'.

I then became concerned and pressed her to go to the Doctors. She didn't in the end and still has them. What can I do? Force her?

I was called 'naive' for not knowing that if you do alot of coke this is 'probably' linked.

Come to think about it it has happened for going on two years. I posted something about this at the time.

Ps. People who 'do' Coke are insecure IMO. You don't need something to make you feel 'fantastic' or give you more energy. If you do, somethings a miss.

Symptoms include eating a lot of crisps, sitting around a lot giggling like a girl at the drop of a hat.

These are the symptoms I get from mountain biking

think they are insightful and clever, whilst lying on the floor staring at the walls. Lots of talking, slowly about unusual subjects.

And this is me normally.

inability to see they are distorted however much logic is ignored in order to continue believing the distorted belief. Very paranoid views of situations and people.

And this is my GF.

And we havn't spent a penny on illegal drugs!

I seriously doubt anyone who knows me would call me insecure! 😆

and as for using drugs for extra energy? COME ON!!
I once tried ephedrine as an experiment, for more endurance on the bike... it failed miserably.

[i]The person I am curious about - Distorted beliefs about every day stuff and inability to see they are distorted however much logic is ignored in order to continue believing the distorted belief. Very paranoid views of situations and people. [/i]

so far it sounds like a daily mail reader

[i]Saying something and 2 days later having no real recall of the discussion, let alone details Massive mood swings from saying people are wonderful to hating them with a vengeance. General overall mood swing from 'not interested in designer wear snobbery, being competitive is not my thing at all, not attention seeking' to 'centre of the room, all must be designer quality, obsession with competitive behaviour' as rough example of mood/personality swing.[/i]

sounds very much like a friend of mine when he was heavily into coke and pills,though he never really smoked weed, it culminated with a kind of breakdown- a year out from all that sh!t and he was back to normal, well normal for him
he still indulges now but ot to the extent he did back then

One word to search for...STRUTTER.

Genius. I forgot all about Strutter 😀

My fave:

and the daddy:

Midnight hour - sounds like they are taking a load of coke. Nasty drug

Alot of people on seem to be forming opinions without much in the way of insight into the subject. Stop being busy bodies. Hora for all you know this girl may have already been to the doctors because she has a congenetal defect with her ENT and you co workers could be as ill informed as you and jumped to the conclusion she must be inhaling drugs. She might be a massive coke head. Who knows?

Midnighthour, you want to know why they are behaving like they are yet it serve no purpose to you. Again their behaviour could be linked to illegal drugs, or maybe not. What possible purpose could it serve to you other then some sort of sick pleasure gained from watching them unravel.

Mr Whoppit, I know people who started drinking 30 years ago who have never stopped, they are all conviced they're not addicted either.

long term effects could be nothing; behaving entirely normally.

or needing to be sectioned.

or most likely somewhere in the middle; the problem is it will effect different people to a differing amount.

Also after prolonged periods of heavy use it can take a long time to rebalance. years some times.

trying not to get bogged down in the incessant rantings of the STW few.....

the one thing you say is that you dont want to intervene, then take a huge step back and avoid the person at all costs.

their behaviour could be due to one of many things, the coke, even minor use would lead them to behave like the insecure prick you describe. They might smoke regularly to no obvious effect, or they might smoke to 'get through' a comedown period. most likely re-use, or increased use is likely brought on by another social factor.

you seem to think that the high might be coke and the paranoia due to the puff. This is far too simplistic. A lot like some of the drivel already spouted on this thread by the media informed......

I know people who started drinking 30 years ago who have never stopped

30 years of sitting at home alone getting wasted on cheap vodka: bad.

30 years of socialising over a couple of drinks or having a glass of wine with a meal: no real issue.

m_f. That is my point exactly, 30 years of recreational smoking is no worse then 30 years of social drinking is it not?

Can't speak for cannabis but I've prob had much more cocaine use than 99% on here, have had some great memories but it has also left it's mark psychologically.

Wouldn't change anything though. I have some serious stories to tell my kids when they get older...

To the OP, if you need advise re. Cocaine use feel free to email me.

I know two people who will never work again and are on serious prescription drugs to try and help them after years on heavy dope smoking.

Both have has psycotic episodes, both are next to no good to anyone. In both cases, modern and very strong cannabis is the likely culprit.

Been "around" it all my life and occasionally had to odd puff but never that interested. Haven't puffed on anything for about five years and don't plan to.

I think traditional stuff is fine but modern skunk and others are just too strong and laced with all kinds of nasties - avoid. It's not cool and it's not clever.

Loads do coke down here - never tried it, never will.

m_f. That is my point exactly, 30 years of recreational smoking is no worse then 30 years of social drinking is it not?

I have some serious stories to tell my kids when they get older...

And I agree with surf-mat - tried some bits very occassionally (dope, skunk, 'rooms) but have never (and have refused it when pressured) tried coke and would never ever try it.

Cannabis has changed so much in the last 10 years, smoking some black i would say is pretty harmless, caning strong skunk is going to really mess you up. Are ther long term effects of smoking dope IMO yes there are. It was my drug of choice for 15 years and I am glad I stopped, enjoyed it immensly but there just comes a time.

Went out with a chick who was a coke fiend, it was like going out with 4 different people at once. Nasty drug which funds nasty people to do nasty things. If someone is a coke head just walk away unless you are looking for a lot of lies lies and more lies.

A few posters have commented on the long term symptoms, not to the user but, to the rest of us and this is a fair point.

Both drugs are illegal and the use of them supports illegal activity which goes all the way from petty crime to murder. Happy to tell that to your kids loddrik?

Whatever the arguments about the desirability of future legalisation, illegal drug use is not an abstract moral issue. It's deeply antisocial and selfish.

I live with a cannabis user (shared house) and a previous girlfriend was a moderately heavy user.

Both of them are/were warm and lovely people while they were smoking, but then impossible people the morning after a session- angry, irritable,paranoid stressy, and neurotic tidy freaks. Both could/can hold down full time jobs etc. It's just those back home who have to bear the brunt of it. Is there any sort of help / guidelines out there for folk who live with folk who smoke too much weed?

gritty shaker, unfortunately alot of the things that are in this world lead to murder and petty crime etc. Just because a drug is illegal doiesn't mean that it is more responsible for murder then lets say the perfectly legal production of guns and ordanence, for example.

Most of the damage caused by illegal drugs could be mitgated by simply legalising them. Some people are going to go downhill no matter what, and many of these will take drugs. In most cases they will deteriorate whether they take drugs or not. In my view we need to take the so called moral objection out of drug legislation, allow people to make their own choices, and focus on harm reduction where appropriate. Oh and tell the truth rather than made up scaremongering and sacking our own experts when they say something we dont like.

Your justification is shaky alex222.

You're right that lots of things lead to murder and petty crime and correct to question whether illegal drugs are more responsible than other factors.

I don't see that either of these points are justification for adding to the sum of human misery through illegal drug taking.

By not taking illegal drugs one is also not contributing to other illegal activity. By taking them one is.

PS - I agree with some of the points made about legalisation and its potential to reduce risk and also about not sacking experts and harm reduction.

However, when one makes a conscious choice to buy an illegal drug one is also making a choice to support a whole range of other illegal and unpleasant activities.

My "moral objection" is not some abstract judgement I make from some high ground position. It's a straightforward and down to earth belief that contributing to crime is wrong.

But only because they're illegal and therefore trade is run by criminals. Take that out of the equation and theres no real problem.

But sweepy. Illegal drugs are illegal now and right now their use supports illegal activity.

When they're legal I won't have this objection but if you choose to take drugs now you choose (in a small but undeniable way) to support having someone shot, beaten up, stolen from - whatever.

To believe otherwise seems naive.

If I see my local trail strewn with litter do I add my junk to the pile with a shrug and a "this place was always going to be a mess and anyway my bit of junk's not as bad as some of that other stuff" OR do I take my junk home and think about how I can organise a clean up and encourage others not to litter.

Some of you guys are new here from MBUK right?

Its not drugs that cause that, its an unfair and unworkable law that leaves criminal gangs able to make huge profits with no effective control on their business practices. The so called war on drugs cant be won, prohibition has never worked, and its actually counterproductive to carry on trying. There were no criminal gangs making fortunes out of mephedrone, and no real basis for a ban, but that will change now its been banned as a knee jerk reaction to please the tabloids and those who see themselves as guardians of the nations morals.

As in 'seriously don't do it kids' or 'seriously, this was well funny this time I was off my tits...'?

As in, 'these are my stories, now you make your own mind up what is right for you' type stories...

Prohibition didn't work in the states, and it doesn't work with your kids, if they want to do it, what you say won't make a blind bit of difference, but at least mine will be clued up unlike most.

And btw, so much shit is talked about drugs by people who 'have never and will never try them', at least I am in full possession of the facts, not what I see on tv or read in the Daily Mail. Pretty hard to roundly condemn something if you have absolutely no frame of reference...

sweepy.

I agree, drugs don't in themselves cause crime and I'm not especially anti-drugs. But the reality is that currently the illegal drugs industry is run by criminals who commit crimes which go beyond the trade in the drugs themselves and extend to the sorts of antisocial and criminal activities I've mentioned. The victims of these crimes are not just drug users and drug dealers. They are all of us.

Currently, when you decide to buy an illegal drug you currently also choose to support current criminal activity.

One doesn't have to be a "moral guardian" to object to the behaviours of those who choose to contribute to criminal activity from which we all suffer.

Grittyshaker, yes, basically. I was brought up in one of the poorer parts of the uk and for better or worse am acquainted with many people who do or have done these bad things. Me shielding my kids from the things that go on does not mean they will not be exposed to it. At least if they get caught up in unsavoury situations at least they can talk to dad about it rather than me coming across like yourself. Your attitude may be great wherever you live but where I am it is painfully naive...

Prohibition didn't work in the states, and it doesn't work with your kids, if they want to do it, what you say won't make a blind bit of difference, but at least mine will be clued up unlike most.

And btw, so much shit is talked about drugs by people who 'have never and will never try them', at least I am in full possession of the facts, not what I see on tv or read in the Daily Mail. Pretty hard to roundly condemn something if you have absolutely no frame of reference.

He shoots He scores.
If my kids want to try drugs, i hope they will come to me, where i will advise them with what i know.This does [b]not mean[/b] i will endorse or even force the issue. If they chose, They will hopefully be under my supervision when and if they do. That includes booze and fags even though i never done the latter....

OK GS but youve got a choice, stop millions of people taking drugs (which really wont happen) or if your serious about stopping the criminal fallout then just legalise them which would remove the benefits to criminals at a stroke.
The same criminals make money and cause misery by moneylending, do you think we should ban banks, or do they provide a safe, legal alternative.
Without our draconian laws, anyone who wanted to smoke cannabis could easily, and cheaply grow their own supply. Instead we are forced to buy contaminated crap from criminals. (unless we get it from small scale artisan growers on the internet)

loddrik

How I might come across to my kids in private may be very different to how I come across here. I'm happy for you that your kids feel they can talk to you. I hope they stay/stayed kids long enough for you and them to enjoy their childhood. The pressures of adolescence/adulthood come very quickly. A certain amount of sheilding's no bad thing.

My point is:

Under the current law if you choose to take drugs you choose to support criminal activity that effects all of us.

That's not a naive belief. It's a fact borne of experience. If one chooses to take drugs in the knowledge of that fact then, IMO, one has made a selfish and antisocial choice.

If my kids want to try drugs, i hope they will come to me, where i will advise them with what i know.This does not mean i will endorse or even force the issue. If they chose, They will hopefully be under my supervision when and if they do. That includes booze and fags even though i never done the latter....

This is the approach my parents took - I was even given a bag of homegrown (stashed secretly in my rucksack) to try on my second term at uni! Result - I don't do any drugs and I don't think (but not sure!) my sisters do either.

grittyshaker
If I bought some seeds and grew one or two plants for my own use. Where am I connected to murder or organised crime?

Why are you asking me...?

Grittyshaker, surely it's your "Society" that is wrong in the setting of it's law, when so many people choose to participate in an "illegal" activity?

sweepy

I think legalisation may have its merits. There have been clinical/statistical studies which suggest that the harm of some currently illegal drugs may be less than some legal activities.

This doesn't negate the fact that currently when you choose to take drugs you currently choose to support criminals.

In my view, currently, the choice to take drugs is a selfish and antisocial one. Currently.

The jist of your argument in favour of taking currently illegal drugs seems to be based around a situation which doesn't currently exist.

If drugs were legal I might start to recreationally indulge but, currently, I'd feel bad knowing that I was contributing to signifcant levels of distinctly unpleasant crime.

U31

You may be right that the law/society is wrong but this doesn't change the fact that, currently, when you choose to buy illegal drugs you, currently, choose to support other forms of crime which, currently, impact on us all.

PS - it's not "my society", it's ours. And it's not "illegal", it's illegal.

(what are you talking about loddrik? must be all those drugs 😉 )

And dont for one minute think that am naive about the drugs trade and misery and crime it can cause in the country it is grown, do you think i'm happy about that?
No, i'm not, is the answer.
But take them i do, for whatever my reasons, in the full knowledge that to simply make them legal would reduce that harm.

U31

You keep taking the drugs and I'll keep believing that you support crime which extends to beatings, robbery and murder. It's a selfish and anti-social choice you make and one that you acknowedge in your post.

I hope that all the baddies you meet are only in your head.

I am sure we have done this quite a few times on STW over the years...

Ah but it does exist, most of my drugs come from growers whose only involvement in crime is growing something illegal, I dont buy from criminals cos they sell shit drugs. It would be easier for others to make this choice if it was legalised.

For a surprisingly open and honest look at the issues surrounding drug use read High society by Ben Elton

I KNOW i support criminal activity, as the law stands, I ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE!
I am good, with this knowledge, it just pisses me off that it has to be this way.

As someone earlier posted, i was also dragged up in a cesspit - but in Bolton, and if you googled the underworld of Bolton, im sure i'd know or went to school with 90% of the names dragged up.
And yes, most of them are totally evil bast***s with the morals of a rattle snake.
And if it could be taken out of the hands of these scum the world would be slightly better. Not totally, though, they will find other lucrative activities, i'm sure.

But as it stands there is a market, there always will be, and if society won't allow legitimate purchase, who other then criminality will corner that market?

im assuming grittyshaker that you only buy clothes not produced in sweatshops, eat sustainably sourced food
you have no electronic devices(laptop, tv, ipod, mobile) in your house that use minerals extracted from places like the congo, the sale of which has been funding the murder and fighting there for a generation

if not id get off your high horse and maybe go and get properly high, sounds like you could do with it

You got me there sweepy.

I guess that would really be the case if your growers were just passing it on to their friends (maybe just at cost price) and making sure that none of their stuff was being traded on and that they weren't unknowingly exacerbating turf wars among the proper dealers because they were undercutting them or somehow normalising an activity which is currently illegal.

I guess the only sure fire way to do it, without the unpleasant side effects, is growing solely for one's own use. In secret.

I note that you say "most of my drugs".

I agree that many of our actions, even legal ones, have unpleasant consequences for others. I try to minimise mine.

i mentioned the Congo thing on another forum where someone was asking about what new phone to buy, I got ripped to shreds.... 😆

I try my best kimbers, I try. Where I have choices I try to make good ones. By no means am I saying I have always made good choices, I continue to screw up from time to time and doubtless I'll foul up in future.

Can't see how to take a position against robbery, beating, murder etc. is to be on any sort of "high horse". It's normal to find these things unpleasant, no?