Well said CM. Night night!
Charlie - you simply fail to understand my point. I am aware of the marketing techniques - I chose to ignore them. I see the sales techniques everywhere - so I can discount them.
a part of what you fail to understand is that I am not paying your game at all. I don't play the consumerist game.
You have been really closed minded here and refuse to realise that there are many people who do this. I seek out objects for what they are not for what they are branded as and I understand the difference between the object and the referent
i don't own branded goods. i don't buy new consuer duarables or proiducts. all my bike bits come secondhand when possible.
Edit - what sort of things do you think I buy 'cos i fall for the marketing?
i don't own branded goods. i don't buy new consuer duarables or proiducts.
I see the booze is kicking in.
I chose to ignore them.
No you don't, unless you willingly chose to be brain dead or blind and deaf. You can kid yourself you're untouched by it, but you're not. It's like people who say they don't judge people. Of course they do, everyone does. It's human nature.
realman - or perhaps thinking and discerning? You know - capable of free will and of making my own mind up?
It's sub concious, beyond our control.
Well, I just brushed my teeth, using colgate toothpaste and an oral b brush. What an experience! 😀
And, after 7 years working for Allianz, I've just realised what's special about the Allianz font. They were very picky about using the special font on all official external communication, but not everyone had it on their PCs, you had to send it to the marketing bods for them to format.
It's the beaks. Beaks everywhere. An entirely new font so they could make their eagle less obviously an eagle.
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Subconscious in what sense? Its a pretty meaningless term. I am perfectly in control of my purchasing decisions.
TandemJeremy - Member
i don't own branded goods. i don't buy new consuer duarables or proiducts. all my bike bits come secondhand when possible.
Ahem...
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yer a bugger druidh. I had forgotton that jacket. One of the very few branded expensive new things I own. Pressie from t'missus
still bought for what it is not what it is branded as
And don't forget the "Crane" branded stuff from Aldi 😉
My understanding of the VHS vs Betamax scenario is that it was based on network effects & content, not particularly branding.
Anyhow, there was a bloke on TV the other week. Professional Northerner starting off with a very TJ esque position.
He took two tins of Heinz Beans, warmed them up and did some taste tests with the public. One tin was stickered up as Tesco's Own Label, whilst the other was honestly labelled as Heinz. The majority of people believed they could taste a difference between the two.
The bloke had done a fair old U-turn by the end of the programme.
Found the iplayer link:
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011fjbp ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011fjbp[/url]
yer a bugger druidh. I had forgotton that jacket. One of the very few branded expensive new things I own. Pressie from t'missusstill bought for what it is not what it is branded as
Teej, you would argue black is white, I do not believe your protestations that you are unaffected by marketing, this is just attention seeking bullsheeeete. Keep it up, I'm stuck in the office finishing off for tomorrow and it looks like I'll be here for another two hours at least.
toys - I'm bored of it now.
it really is my position that I do my damnedest to avoid being influenced by marketing and that marketing is far less effective than marketeers would have you believe.
there is a clear difference between the object an the brand that the marketeers fail to understand that many of us can see, indeed often they often completely fail to understand this themselves. the referent is not the object. You can call a cat a dog but it will never bark.
There is a whole section of society that thinks as I do but its outside the experience of the marketeers so they deny it exists. there is a huge amount of "emperors new clothes" going on that they just cannot admit to but many of us know the emperor is naked.
TJ - the brand is not the logo. The brand is everything the consumer associates with the business or product.
You might see "Coca Cola" and think firstly of "evil capitalist pig-dogs", but a much greater percentage of people think "tasty pop".
TBH I have resisted because I personally try to resist marketing, but I knwo i fall for it all the time. I don't see it as a bad thing, I'm glad I've fallen for the spin around cargo bikes, I love my cargo bike. I'm glad I bought a 5k dh bike, love that too, never stop having fun on it. Sometimes marketing can be OK. I was happy to spend 5k on a brand, logo and livery for the company website/brochures etc, that has totally paid for itself - people always say oohh nice brochure, or I went to your website and your people really know what they are doing. KERching sale. Happy days.
I'll never forget when buying a motorbike from the dealer when I was 20, I was going to buy the cheaper two stroke 250 and he wanted to push me towards the 4 stroke 400. His words "Well when you are late for that flight and you really need to cruise at high speed the 400 will sit at 110mph all day.." I was savvy enoughh then to know exactly what he was doing, bought the 400 though anyway.
tron- I understand that - however the brand is not the object. Thats the bit the marketeers don't understand. the object has an existence and value that is separate to any branding.
toys - I have hardly ever bought a new consumer item like that. All my bikes motor and pedal bar the insurance replacement were bought secondhand. I have never bought a new piece of furniture. Apart form the few bits of cycling clothing druidh kindly pointed out I don't own branded clothing hardly at all. My main suit was secondhand 30 years ago. I own one pair of dress shoes. I have hardly ever bough new consumer durables. I don't own a mobile phone, a dvd player, a satellite dish, a games console. My stereo consists of mainly second-hand components. I recently bought my first computer for 12 years.
I'm just not paying the consumerist game. I buy stuff for what it is not for what it is branded or marketed as.
I am just not interested in al the branding and marketing boolx. I don't recognise bikes - people say to me "you know so and so - he has the such and such bike" - well I don't because I don't recognise the bike.
it really is my position that I do my damnedest to avoid being influenced by marketing
Don't you see the irony in that? In avoiding thing because they are marketed, you are letting marketing have a far greater influence on what you buy than the rest of us do. If you go to such and effort to avoid coca-cola or Gore-tex, specifically because it is a marketed product then you are not buying freely. You have a 'must not buy' list.
Especially if you are trying your damndest. Me? I just buy stuff cos i like it. yes, maybe the advert on the telly made want to buy it maybe it looked cool on the next guy, but would have looked freaky 5 years ago and will again in another 5. you seem to have let marketers dictate what you do and don't buy.
Tandem J, comic genius.
Tj - I admire the fact that you will argue your point til someone put a gun to your head, but you too are being very closed minded - you are unable to accept that you can possibly be affected or influenced to pick something over another.
As you correctly said, you choose something for what it is, not what someone tells you - what youre talking about is marketing, that isn't branding. A brand is an ethos, a reason for being - that brand is then marketed to people who are the targeted Market.
If you're life and decision making is so black and White I feel sorry for you, you can't be a very emotive person,
Apart form the few bits of cycling clothing druidh kindly pointed out I don't own branded clothing hardly at all
And yet you claim to be a typical consumer, representing a majority of people uninfluenced by marketing.
tron- I understand that - however the brand is not the object. Thats the bit the marketeers don't understand. the object has an existence and value that is separate to any branding.
Now you're just insulting their intelligence - of course they know that - but you seem to be tangling brand and marketing
I just bought a memory card for my camera. How did I choose it? They all look alike - little black bits of plastic. The specs on the box are fairly plain vanilla - something about the capacity, and the I/O speed, which may or may not be reliable. Maybe they are all the same? I'd prefer not to make a mistake, as I don't want to risk losing my photos. so what do I do? Buy the cheapest, and hope? Or buy a well-known brand and assume that there is more behind it than a name on a box?
In fact I did the latter. TJ? - he's still busily testing memory cards to make sure he gets the one that corresponds best to his needs, in the absence of any other information.
He's not he is busy arguing that black is white with the shop manager over the finer points of the SOGA and has got an audience of about 25 willing pillocks who are busy trying to convince him that he is wrong.
toys - I have hardly ever bought a new consumer item like that. All my bikes motor and pedal bar the insurance replacement were bought secondhand. I have never bought a new piece of furniture. Apart form the few bits of cycling clothing druidh kindly pointed out I don't own branded clothing hardly at all. My main suit was secondhand 30 years ago. I own one pair of dress shoes. I have hardly ever bough new consumer durables. I don't own a mobile phone, a dvd player, a satellite dish, a games console. My stereo consists of mainly second-hand components. I recently bought my first computer for 12 years.
That's not someone who isn't susceptible to marketing, it's someone with moths in his wallet
That's not someone who isn't susceptible to marketing, it's someone with moths in his wallet
😀
That's not someone who isn't susceptible to marketing, it's [s]someone with moths in his wallet [/s]a Scot
FTFY
DrJ if thats true then it proves TJ is susceptible to marketing, as he is english, but he has accepted the scottish persona..
DrJ if thats true then it proves TJ is susceptible to marketing, as he is english, but he has accepted the scottish persona..
🙂
Impossible!!
I wonder how many food products with a 'brand' on them end up in TJ's shopping basket each week (even Tesco 'Cheap and Shit' stuff is a 'brand').
Yeah actually if you buy cheap and shit you have fallen for their marketing that its cheap and shit..
You still don't get it and keep putting words in my mouth.
you are so attached to your dreams of marketing and branding that its simply beyond your ken that someone isn't. And you accuse me of a closed mind!
CharlieMungus - Member"it really is my position that I do my damnedest to avoid being influenced by marketing"
Don't you see the irony in that? In avoiding thing because they are marketed, you are letting marketing have a far greater influence on what you buy than the rest of us do. If you go to such and effort to avoid coca-cola or Gore-tex, specifically because it is a marketed product then you are not buying freely. You have a 'must not buy' list.
Dunno where you get that from. Its nothing to do with anything I have said. But beacuse I do my damndest to avoid being influenced mby marketing I must have a not buy list thus am influence by marketing more than most - try actually reading what I wrote and appraoching it with an open mind
Is black white in your world?
you seem to have let marketers dictate what you do and don't buy.
HOw you get get that from the fact I do the opposite - some leap of logic. really thats as thin as personal recomendation is marketing.
DrJ - Member
And yet you claim to be a typical consumer, representing a majority of people uninfluenced by marketing.
Not at all - not once did I say that. I said there is a part of the population who think like me
You guys are so funny. When there is something you don't understand that challenges your ethos you have to deny it exists.
You are still having a huge issue with separating the object from the referent. Its perfectly possible to buy branded goods because of what they are not because of the branding - even sometimes despite the branding
But to you the object is the referent so you cannot grasp this concept.
Even a can of coca cola has a value a an object.
But because yo don't understand you make up things you claim I have said and mock me to reinforce your prejudices - instead of opening your minds and accepting that not everyone thinks, lives and acts in the same way
Will it make 600?
Will it make 600?
It's not [i]your[/i] thread TeeJ.
I think you will find it is his DD.
Started 22 hours ago by mastiles_fanylion
I know he [i]thinks[/i] it's his, but it's not 🙂
Must be a bit tiresome being TJ, having to spend all that time deciding which toothpaste cleans his teeth best, which powder washes his socks better, etc etc, simply because he discounts the information provided by the brand.
again DrJ - I haven't said that 🙄 Open your mind and listen.
I haven't said that
See TeeJ, when you decide to talk complete bollocks for a few hours, you have to remember what you have and haven't said - you've called people gullible, then said you haven't, you've tied yourself up in so many knots covered in bullshit that you've forgotten what you've said now...it could have been fun, but it just turned out to be too much like the other time you got yourself into a knot over marketing/brand/logos and your lack of understanding of them. And, I'm afraid, that shows a lack of imagination on your part.
However, you've motored it on to 14 or 15 pages and for that, I salute you.
Either you use the information provided by the branding or you don't. If you use it, then it works, contrary to your claim.
Imagine - you go into a shop in a foreign country to buy washing powder. You have 2 choices, at the same price - Ariel, or Jkjgfukf. Which do you buy?
So TJ how do you buy things like toothpaste and washing powder?
You are still having a huge issue with separating the object from the referent. Its perfectly possible to buy branded goods because of what they are not because of the branding - even sometimes despite the branding
you're still blurring the line of marketing and branding -
how do you come to a decision that one branded item is better than another equally good branded or generic product?
marketing clearing isn't aimed at you, its aimed at people who spend money (and I don't mean this with malice) -
[i]how do you buy things like toothepaste and washing powder?[/i]
he gets it second hand doesn't he? So whatever's available, I'd guess.
I was just stood at the sink doing some washing up... and saying a silent prayer to Tesco.. They are due to deliver some groceries this morning and I'm out of coffee..
which led me to thinking.. How much was Jesus Christ a brand..?
How much was Jesus Christ an anthropomorphism of a franchise..?
The franchise was already deeply hinted at in the bible with the disciples.. did the brand become so deeply entrenched that over the millenia Christianity has become what it is (or was..) Were they just a grocers or perhaps a builders merchant who gave out friendly advice wth your shopping..?
Where's Tescos with my coffee..!? My eggs are going cold..
The swine..
(it's fairtrade coffee BTW.. I only ever buy stuff with the fairtrade logo..)
don't bring religion into it, my head will explode!
