MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Finished building an Aqroshot for my sons Christmas present. Standard kit + bearings + Proline Trencher tyres. Surprised to find it came with a Torque-Tuned motor rather than a standard 540, certainly seems to shift!
Got a Traxxas Maxx for the kids (honest!). It an absolute monster, and tough as can be. Took it to a quiet bit of tarmac to test top speed any got 47.6 on the garmin before I crashed it into my leg...ouch!! If I can figure out how to post photos again I’ll put some up of today’s trip to a very muddy park.
Failing to get this photo thing to work
My little panda tetra x1 has stopped working 🙁
Can any experienced rcers give me a few tips on diagnosing the fault?
Powers on, connects to the controller, servo/steering works, lights work, no drive. I can hear some sort of electric sound coming from the esc which sounds like it is getting the signal from the control, but no other movement.
No loose connections as far as I can see. Thinking the motor might have given up but it wasn’t doing anything particularly strenuous at the time. Any way of testing the motor it has a push fit connector thingy so can’t connect positive / negative without cutting it off.
It is a 180 motor 51t, would any similar 180 fit, or do I have to order the panda hobby replacement from the us? Not a lot of money 13dollars if I understand their site right, but it’s more the wait and whether that will fix it.
We have a fellow enthousiast in the MTB community!
@DT78 - disconnect the motor and see if you can get a multimeter across the connections. See if the ESC is supplying any power to the motor when you accelerate first. If that's ok then measure the motor by spinning it and see if a voltage is generated. If either are faulty then you know where the fault is. As for the 180 motor itself, that's a standard can size so any other 180 motor will bolt up but you'll have to check what the ESC can take too. You can usually get a decent motor and ESC combo online if you can't find the fault, should be plug-and-play then.
Thanks rj, managed to find an old motor from a deceased rc with than same connection, works fine, so I know it’s a dead motor. Bit disappointed it’s only lasted 3 months, but if it’s easy to pick up a similar motor they are only about £8
I'm really feeling the need for a half decent crawler after that Seth video.
We've got a WPL C24 that I bought earlier this year for the kids and they've had a lot of fun from it, but it's really cheap and nasty, non-proportional steering, barely any speed control, hard plastic tyres, etc.
How much do you have to spend for something worthwhile, and is there anything in kit form rather than RTR without spending big money at the really high end?
Well, I was super happy with the little panda hobby tetra x1 till it just stopped working! £115. I’ve asked them for a new motor under warranty so will see what the customer service is like!
I was tempted by the equivalent axial, but on reading it needed a whole bunch of upgrades, whereas the panda was pretty good straight out of the box
FTXcrawlers are ok. got a ravine and mauler and good for the money both only broke one shock seal in 11 months. But Mauler looked pants so changed it into a stubby pickup. And it runs on 3cell now.
There are nice kits for about 200 axial/element RC. But then you need all the running gear. I am going to build another in January with portal axles and two speed. I have looked at RC4WD stuff and Greens hobby’s. wish I had not now!
RC Review is pretty good on you tube. He’s like a crawler Yoda.
Kits tend to be more expensive than RTR, seemed weird but I think it's basically that they're more niche, while RTR sells far more.
There's a lot of scope to improve that WPL incidentally, lots of aftermarket and also some more recent upgrades that'll retrofit, proper steering included... but it does probably make more sense to just go direct to a better truck.
These are just crazy value now...
https://www.timetunnelmodels.com/live/catalog/outback-fury-jeep-wrangler-style-rock-crawler-trial-with-battery-charger-ftx5579-p-63286.html
Good out of the box, good aftermarket but also they brought the sizing inline with the competitition so it's a lot more compatible with stuff like bodyshells, axles, etc. (most things that fit an SCX10 can be fitted to a Fury, with a little effort)
So what Christmas builds have will all got lined up?
I've got a Kyosho Tomahawk to finish (just decals). A Javelin to build and a Kyosho Beetle.
ive ordered a absima AMT3.4 for xmas. I was goign to get the truggy kit to build but, for the price, the RTR kit is just so much better value.
Lookign forward to smashing through the muddy puddles and a few cheeky blasts at the skatepark!
Well, rcawd responded inside 24hrs and are sending me 2 motors, pretty impressed. They are coming from China so who knows how long it will take to get here
Axial 1/24 micro crawler - just like in the video above!
@Oblongbob I've got an Axial too. It's a great little car. I've put some brass wheel weights on and it climbs even better now. Got some brass diff covers and steering knuckles on the way too which should make it less top heavy.
Only issue I've had is that the charger packed up but having read some horror stories about the charger it's promted me to get a decent balanced charger. I figure this is the first of many cars so it's a good investment anyway.
I'm really tempted by the Traxxis Tr4...
I got my boys a couple of the Absima 1:16 trucks from RC Geeks, thanks for the recommendations folks. They're great, but the battery life is woeful. Any idea where I can do better than the stock 7.4v 500mAh batteries? RC Geeks only sell the actual battery fitted in the car.
We’ve had a lot of fun making assault courses for the axial with boxes, logs, etc. Weights would definitely be good. I’m extremely tempted by the trx4 too! Might have to wait a while as Santa brought us an e revo 2.0 to keep the maxx company, so we’ve probably reached full rc quota for the moment. Just waiting for the inevitable head on revo/maxx smash and associated carnage....good job it’s quite fun fixing them too!
Getting a bit muddy:
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Drying by the fire:
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/3kqKGMP2/C8960666-088-C-4-DAF-9-A73-DBC696-FB6-F71.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/3kqKGMP2/C8960666-088-C-4-DAF-9-A73-DBC696-FB6-F71.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
And the wee one:
And even muddier Maxx:
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/23YcfrGy/D47-E49-E5-1-A49-4-BBA-A3-B3-237-CCC2-F3-F39.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/23YcfrGy/D47-E49-E5-1-A49-4-BBA-A3-B3-237-CCC2-F3-F39.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Maverick Strada MT10 brushless update...
Lost front wheel drive after five minutes. Grr. Was more than a little annoyed. However, body off, a few screws undone and a quick poke around identified a loose grub screw. Tightened, and off we go again. Already smashed a body, but do know what? Don't care!
Goes really well, especially at slower speeds while the Boy gets to grips with handling etc. Battery life seems excellent, and pretty easy to change to put the spare in. It's going to be a lot of fun!
Nice Flashy, very nice.
Hope it's still in one piece and the boy is having fun. 🙂
The 2CV is still not finished - both bodies are prepped and masked but I have a care package from RC Mart on the way - Tamiya oil filled dampers for the 2CV and the High Torque Servo Savers for the three Tamiyas, 2CV, TT02B and the wonderful Lunchbox.
Spent many hours replacing bearings and replacing worn out bits on the buggy and Lunchy, both now pretty much perfect, a nice balance of power and controllability.
Soooo, an Arrma Big Rock arrived today with a 2S LiPo, balance lead and charging sack.
Oooops. 🙂
First impressions are promising. It was this or a GF-06 Big Yellow, but after adding everything up this came out cheaper.
If I don't burn the house down charging the LiPo I'll let you know how it goes.
Happy new year to you all. Have fun.
Late entrant to this thread but got one of these for the kids for xmas
https://m.banggood.com/Xinlehong-Q901-1-or-16-2_4G-4WD-52km-or-h-Brushless-Proportional-Control-RC-Car-with-LED-Light-RTR-Toys-p-1445869.html?act_poa=POA4476974&cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=detail-bottom-alsolike
It's awesumz! Only had it out a couple of times so far, on restricted speed. Battery seems small but it has been so cold I'm not sure the kids wanted to be out too long anyway. Survived a couple of kerb interfaces fine. It's a bit small for wet long grass. On wet tarmac it's hilarious. Probably going to take it to the beach to see how it gets on...
Some photos of snowy fun with the new Traxxas e revo and the Maxx. Revo makes a very good sledge puller. Got snow tyres for it...they are awesome for spaying the kids with snow!
Had ours out in the snow too.
Unfortunately the Mad Bull went on to sustain a fatal blow to the front right roof pillar. Ho-hum, I suppose that I had better get round to painting my spare body shell.
Just found this thread. Used to have a kyskyosho raider when I was a boy. Now have 2 boys and have been thinking about getting something again.
I saw rich_s's link to banggood site and they seem very cheap. Has anyone else bought from here? Very interested in the 4wd ones
I've ordered a fair bit from bangood, it's been fine. I had to return an item, which was a bit of a faff, but not surprising. Just check they are still shipping to the UK, quite a few items aren't at the moment, presumably due to the Brexit changes.
There are a couple of people a couple of pages back who bought the same model Q901 as me. I've been on banggood to buy a spare battery and they won't ship that to the UK, so I've found something on Amazon that I hope will fit.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B085TD3FH5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_nxz8Fb5N3EA9G
Also, we had the car down the beach yesterday and today the shocks are a bit stuck! They're only friction shocks so I've taken the opportunity to buy some oil shockers from BG and a battery strap to allow double batteries to be run. The strap should mean I can run a much bigger battery on top of the battery holder but I've just bought it for a bit of insurance if the amazon one doesn't quite fit.
Now up to a spend of 85 quid, so I'm getting mission creep!
How long do the batteries last on that Q901. Also is it possible to restrict the speed? I've hot a 6 and 3 year old. Don't want them too fast
The q901 lasts about 20 minutes I e found, although current temps outside effect the runtime. The controller has a high and low speed setting, although it did t take my 6 year long to figure that out. To be fair, they take a beating, as numerous trips to the skate park can a test too.
Now on a world of window shopping for 4wd RC trucks! Love the look of the Kyosho mad van
What I've learned fairly quickly is not to let them have it near kerbs! Beach is perfect space wise. In fast mode it's fast! As it's a 1/16 size it's pretty dinky so quite tricky to judge position accurately when it's a distance away. Gonna let the eldest have a go in the woods with it now he's got his eye in a bit.
Not sure your 3 year old would cope tbh. I've also got an old rock crawler I'm going to recommission for my 5 y/o.
Excellent good to hear. Yea was thinking the 3 year old could watch rather than use one of these. Hoping I can still order on bang good site. What's the largest capacity battryy those q901 can take?
The actual battery slot is tiny. But they sell a strap on, double jack thing which can be used to mount 2. Presumably one over the other. There's mention in the q&a bit about people running 3s and bigger batteries so I presume those are literally just mounted on top of where the standard battery fits (which is 60x30x15mm ish).
Problem is, you can't order a spare standard battery to ship to UK and the 2 battery model is £100.
The one I've ordered from amazon will be here tomorrow so I'll post up whether it fits.
The proper batter space on the Q901 is pretty small and won’t take anything much bigger than the stock battery. Having said that there is plenty of space under the shell to strap something bigger in if you feel like it.
So far (with temperatures not getting much above freezing since Christmas) the stock battery has just about lasted long enough to keep my five year old happy. The car seems pretty good as well, happily survived a few bumps into trees and fences and has mostly been run wet grass which doesn’t seem to bother it much (though I did swap out the stock shocks for some oil damped ones which may have helped things).
So probably best to order with the extra battery pack.
Trying to work out what esc and 3s and 4s mean?
The hbx 16889 has caught my eye
HBX 16889 saw this thread about it
Its faster than the Q903 despite having a smaller ESC and motor. The Q903 has a 35amp ESC with a 2845 3200KV motor, and the 16889 has a 25amp ESC with a 2435 KV3900 motor buts the 16889 is quite a bit faster.
Does that mean the battery might last longer?
ESC - Electronic Speed Controller, ie the thing that controls the motor from the signals given by the remote.
*S on batteries is the number of cells (individual batteries in the pack).
2S is 2 cells, so 7.2V output (assuming 3.6V per cell)
5S is 5 cells, so 3.6V times 5
6S is 6 cells etc etc.
As the S increases, the voltage and therefore potential speed increases - assuming the ESC and motor can take the voltage.
The the mH rating is the current capacity so how long the battery will last before running flat.
There is also a degrees C rating on batteries, which is I believe how hot it can get whilst discharging, so if you have a very heavy model or one you want to run at rapid acceleration, you'll want a higher C rating to cope with the demand. I'm a bit flaky on this as my model has sat unplayed with for nearly 10 years 😀
There is also a degrees C rating on batteries, which is I believe how hot it can get whilst discharging, so if you have a very heavy model or one you want to run at rapid acceleration, you’ll want a higher C rating to cope with the demand.
Nah, it's the internal resistance, and hence the continuous and burst discharge rates. Nothing to do with temperature. https://oscarliang.com/lipo-battery-c-rating/
That Kyosho Mad Van looks great! Like a more capable LunchBox.
Rich_s can you share that amazon link? doesn't seem to work for me
Here's what it is rather than a link.
Hootracker 7.4V Battery 1400mAh 20C T Deans Connector with USB Cable for WLtoys 4WD RC Cars
It fits! Sort of. Goes in the slot ok but tight length and width wise, but it's too thick for the bar that holds the battery in. So I'll need to have a strap on it anyway. Currently on charge so I'll see how the run time goes, but for 16 quid I'm hoping it's a bargain.
Also going to put the receiver into a baggie/balloon/condom to help ward off water.
Nah, it’s the internal resistance, and hence the continuous and burst discharge rates. Nothing to do with temperature. https://oscarliang.com/lipo-battery-c-rating//blockquote >
Doh.. Yes of course - must remember never to post a reply I should research whilst rushing to get to work on time. 🙂
Thanks for the clarification Barney. I remember now and must have got mixed as was sort of on the right track with discharge rate, or current draw in reality.
Just noticed that 901 is on amazon as well
The Arrma Big Rock is bloody amazing.
On 2s, only using it on 50% power in the snow, but it handles well and feels solid.
God knows what it's like on 3s at 100% power.
Not cheap, but very good value.
Had it to bits and apart from a wobbly wheel everything was spot on out of the box.
Very different to my Tamiyas, but feels like a quality item and should last a while.
It's almost as much fun as the Lunchbox 😶.
Had the Maverick Scout crawler out yesterday up at Beacon Fell with some of the lads from work.
Still available for under £150 with battery, charger etc....crazy value for a 1/10 scale crawler. It's never failed, nothing has been replaced and it's wonderful fun.
Cannot recommend it highly enough.
Have you vented the tyres on the Big Rock? will help with them not disintegrating when they fill with water.
@trickydisco
The FLYHAL 9135 on amazon seems to be it too, plus double batteries and spare shell. Get it tomorrow on Prime too!
Rich S is that the one you have? how have you found it?
No, I got the q901 from banggood. But that one off amazon looks identical to me.
Ahh looks like the fly 9135 has a brushed motor and the q901/903 is brushless
nwmlarge
Full Member
Have you vented the tyres on the Big Rock? will help with them not disintegrating when they fill with water.
Posted 16 hours ago
It came with the vented tyres, one less thing to worry about.
Off tomorrow, so up early and out for a blast on the local golf Rc course. Doesn't cause any damage, no worries.
However, I've just been out with the Lunchbox and tbh, it's as much fun. So it should, with all the upgrades and repairs it's probably cost about as much!
Odd one.
When I run the Lunchie I'm reminded of being a small child and holding my dad's hand whilst walking down Market Street in Manchester to Beatties model shop.
I knew he couldn't afford one then so I never aspired to owning such a thing until recently.
Now, I love watching my grand daughter being utterly entranced by it.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Love to all.
Pete.
This thread is making me want an RC car. Must resist.
Find out soon if I'm WFH until Easter. £400 diesel saving... and you know what that means.
Find out soon if I’m WFH until Easter. £400 diesel saving… and you know what that means.
What ya thinking of getting ?
I keep debating whether to get one of those banggood trucks (901) (or from amazon branded as Vatos) or go bigger and get something like the big rock. But then this is mainly *supposed* to be for my 6 year old 🙂
Or
Maverick Quantum MT Flux - £159
I
Just don't know enough to compare or compare brands
Abisma AMT3.4BL £199
I prefer the look of the abisma
Oooooohh whatcha going to get HtS? £400 is a great budget!
Santa DID bring me the Tamiya Unimog I'd asked him for which kept me busy all over Christmas. I really enjoyed the mechanical build - only a mishap where I'd used the wrong track rod ends on the rear shocks and then couldn't get the servo link rod to line up properly as they were too short. Easily fixed once I'd worked out what I'd done wrong. It was very satisfying fettling it, great fun. I'd bought a set of upgraded bearings when I was buying the paint etc too.
Took a while to get the receiver and transmitter paired up but the instructions weren't great and I'd never done it before. The last time I played with an RC car was probably in the very early 80s!
I found that cutting out / masking / painting the body was really tedious and I didn't make a great job of it. I think the cutting out might have been a little easier with a Dremel on the wheelarches. I neglected to wipe down the interior of the shell between colours so I've got a bit of black overspray on the shell before the orange went on. Looks 'dirty' which is probably a good look on a Unimog. There was also some bleeding under the window masks and under some of the masking tape I'd used. So if I did it another one then it's something I would spend more time and care over. Looks OK finished with the decals on etc but it's a bit rough and ready.
I did fit the clear unpainted body to the chassis on a very frosty day to try it out and it was much quicker than I was expecting doing donuts in front of the house. The propshaft came loose at one stage which meant I only had front wheel drive. Again easily fixed and it was good fun in 2wd too.
When it was all finally finished I charged the battery and took it out for a blast in the snow on Saturday gone. Brilliant 4 wheel drifts with snow flying from the tyres, was ace. Until it wasn't - think I knackered the cheap plastic geared steering servo. It works intermittently, just makes noise the rest of the time. I took it apart but couldn't see any stripped gears so I've ordered a new metal geared one and hopefully that should sort it.
If I get another one I'm torn between the 2CV rally or the 911 RSR. Any thoughts oh wise ones? I like the look of both. Think someone has started a 2CV further up the thread?
I`ve got an absima AMT3.4 only had it since xmas so a few drives - seems nice and pretty well made.
very different to the Madbull i have in that it goes in a straight line but is less fun to drive because it goes in a straight line. its great for in teh rough though and seeing what you can get up. ha loads of fun on the beach razzing it up and down the shingle shelves. the mad bull struggles a bit at this.
I got it as the mad bull was too tricky for the kids to use. and also our garden isnt very well maintained and it bogs down in teh long grass. the AMT is great and jumps nice. I have the brushed version and run a 2s lipo and its plenty fast enough (too fast for the kids really). The kids prefer to use it with a regular 7.2v nimh battery as it doesnt spear off into the undergrowth when they press too much throttle - haha.
I might swap the radio gear from the mad bull as i can reduce down teh throttle on the handset on that setup for when for teh kids use it.
strapped onsome old night lights last night for a night time sesh!
https://imgur.com/a/EUBAUcz
If I get another one I’m torn between the 2CV rally or the 911 RSR. Any thoughts oh wise ones? I like the look of both. Think someone has started a 2CV further up the thread?
Personally, I found the M05-RA chassis of the 2CV nicer than the TT02-B (basically the same as the Porsche).
The M05 is smaller and a bit more complex, but has less steering slop and was more fun to build.
@trickydisco - The Absima is ace. Mate's son has one and it's very, very tough.
A cheap, simple way to limit speed for kids is to tape a bit of wood/plastic to the trigger to limit travel. Not pretty but it works.
@trickydisco – The Absima is ace. Mate’s son has one and it’s very, very tough.
A cheap, simple way to limit speed for kids is to tape a bit of wood/plastic to the trigger to limit travel. Not pretty but it works.
nice. Is there not a way of doing it electronically? I heard on some you can do it electronically
you can buy handsets with switches or throttle gain dials.
A DumboRc unit will set you back about £30 and will do that
If you get the one with Gyro it will make it easier to drive at speed too.
yeah my cheapo chinese radio handset has options to reduce the throttle effect on teh handset. not on the stock absima controller though. you have trim and stuff but not % power adjustment.
But, like i said, if you get the cheaper brushed version you can run a boggo battery for teh kids and a 2s Lipo for you.
I found teh absima uses more power than teh 2wd mad bull. i guess weight and transmission losses?
Oooooohh whatcha going to get HtS? £400 is a great budget!
I fancy a couple of tanks.
Aagh don't say that, it's the one RC temptation I've still managed to resist
Im now starting to think I'll get a cheaper one for the boy and 1 for me 🙂
Santa brought me one of these
I might start to build it tomorrow 🙂
Going to leave this out there...
Can someone tell me why a lot of the RC cars come with the trigger controllers? I',m sure when i was a boy everyone had the stalk style. I had a few RC cars and i always had a stalk type controller
I’ve got a Schumacher cat2000 which I found the other day, remember when my uncle got me into racing. The skill of the drivers is unbelievable!
@tricydisco
I got mine from modelsport. Decent service.
The absima truck doesn't come with batteries or charger so factor those in.
I had other cars so didn't need batteries. But I've since bought a very large capacity 2sLipo from Amazon to extend runtime. 6000mah (also so we can run lipos in both my car's for racing fun!)
I have this charger which is flipping ace. Can also use it in my van which is good. Does lipo and NiMH bit confusing to use initially but once you work it out it's fine. Be careful not to overcharge though.
https://www.timetunnelmodels.com/live/catalog/radient-mistral-lipo-nimh-super-fast-charger-rdna0465-p-62600.html
For smaller kids I'd get a 1/16th buggy/truck. One of the dad's at my kids school has a pair of them and the kids love them. Loads of fun and really robust. You can't run them where the 1/10 cars/absima would go but you can bung em in a rucksack for when you go on a walk or the park and are good for smaller gardens
Oh yeah - you'll get used to the trigger controller super quick. I think I still prefer the stick type (cos that's what I had back in the day) but I guess they are more complicated to make. It's a bit easier for kids to work out too.
@oldtennisshoes - snap! But my Unimog's built now. Things I learnt - if you can, buy a set of CC-01 bearings from ebay etc. Only a tenner and much better than the plastic ones you get in the box. The Tamiya instructions tell you which ones to use and when, very worthwhile and esasy.
And if you don't have a Dremel or similar it might be worth getting one for cutting out the shell. Scissors and craft knives left a really poor finish on mine, it would have looked loads better with something like that, especially for the wheelarches.
And take your time with masking, make sure you leave plenty of time between coats and get something like Carson paint killer to wipe the shell down / sort any bleeds once you've done the black. Have fun!
Triggers are easier to handle, most stick controllers need a lanyard.
I can comfortably control my TRX4 with one hand as my thumb can reach the wheel.
All down to preference.
updating the thread, 2 new motors free of charge turned up yesterday for my pandahobby. Impressed. Shame it can't be used outside now due to lockdown (not sure it counts as exercise?!)
Did someone say 2CV?😁
[img] 
[/img]
@Merak - that looks brilliant! Yes, it was me. I fancy one for my next go after the 'mog. Probably won't look nearly as nice as yours due to my lack of skill.... I'm going to go for yellow with black wings I think and I'll probably leave off the sand ladder, looks too much like a stock car wing for my liking. Be later in the year for mine.
Over the christmas period i have built an old Tamiya M03 mini cooper, but coverted to 2s lipo and brushless.
Then built a Schumacher Cat K1 Aero 1/10 Buggy runnin 4s - This is such a fun car and probably my favourite car of all time for its speed and manouverability.
Then I bought a slightly use Aarma Mojave 6s - this is a 1/7th scale Desert / Short course Truct and is an absolutely animal. So easy to driver and crazy fast, its got me exploring my local arears for spots to let it go.
Tale of fail... I got myself an SCX10 kit really to gradually transfer stuff off my RGT onto, always planned for it to be a tinkering sort of a project, a build for its own sake. That was... a long time ago. Year and a half? Built it, drove it a couple of times with an illfitting body on, got a load of cheap brass and an overdrive front gear and a pair of new bodies and thought, right, let's settle down and get this finished. That was also a long time ago. Got it built, constant horrible judders like something catching. The only part I'd changed since the last testdrive was the overdrive so I figured, must be that. Stripped it all down, totally lost patience, drove my old RGT instead. That was a long time ago too.
Tonight, decided to have another look, within 5 minutes discovered that the motor was dead. Just that coincidentally it had happened at the same time as another mod. Threw in a spare cheap motor I had, works perfectly. That's been LITERALLY MOST OF A YEAR since I last took it out for a drive because of that.
Took advantage of the lovely cold spell to get the revo out on the frozen loch. Slightly nervous moment when it stopped right in the middle. Worth risking icy death to rescue it? Luckily it came back to life when I walked a wee bit closer!
I’m going to go for yellow with black wings I think and I’ll probably leave off the sand ladder
I'd leave it off as it looks like it'll snap off the first time you crash - and what's the point in getting an RC car if you're not going to drive it and inevitably crash it?