Grandparents are looking forward to seeing the young uns A LOT next year, post vaccine for older folk. They’ll be wanting rid of us by the end of the summer holidays! Focusing on that, and plenty of Zoom and FaceTime this Xmas. We’ll all find ways of enjoying the winter, with laughs via video link. The modern world has us covered.
Aimed at me Kryton? I posed the questions as the more detailed guidance hadn't been published... And I wasn't expecting it to follow the same evening but Chris found it.
I'm not looking for loopholes, I'm expecting a very quiet Christmas. It's more that I want to know the rules before people inevitably start trying to arrange festivities.
Surely it's common sense to know the rules...and that they are a limit, not a target.
johnson says '...the virus hasn't gone away'- yes, we're aware of that - so why announce any sort of dispensation?
Hospitality sector and non-essential retail re-opening next week; christmas shopping scrums coming up; it will be impossible to monitor/manage social distancing and mask wearing.
CV19 hospitalisations and deaths to rise in January.
Thanks johnson, you utter clown.
Forman, that's exactly it. FWIW I expect any improvements made through this lockdown will be squandered before Christmas as the hordes need to go out Christmas shopping. Bring on the January lockdown.
Thanks johnson, you utter clown.
Don't single him out. Nicola Sturgeon is peddling the same schtick.
The Christmas rules are probably driven more by what a good proportion of people will do anyway
That’s my take on it too. People have been understandably very stressed / depressed during lockdown / 2020 in general. If this means that people are more likely to adhere to the (current) rules because they know there’s a glimmer on the horizon of a nice Christmas, it may not be (overall) the huge risk people seem to be assuming. Hell, if I wanted to see Granny at Christmas I’d want to make damn sure I wasn’t taking Covid back to her so I might be even more cautious in the coming weeks.
I suspect we’ll probably be having a quiet one as a family.
Just watched this on the Beeb 10pm news, broadly ignorant of the earlier announcements and media heresay. Quite frankly the weirdest story I've ever seen on the news and like some sort of bizarre public information parody.
before creating a shit shower of a mountain out of a mole hill as a thread like this I don’t know.
OP asked a reasonable question.
Sorry folks just a small rant as I get pissed off at deniers, the scamdemic arseholes, the conspiracy price and social media idiots who knew better then science.
like some sort of bizarre public information parody
It’s baffling.
I think most people know what needs to happen though. Soon we’ll all be able to meet up with vaccinated parents… and not just at home… but down the pub! It can’t come too soon. That it won’t be in time for Xmas, well… for most of us >shrug< …there will be exceptions though, people who really do need to get face to face with family they might lose soon… the rest of us should wait a few months to keep things as safe as possible for them, and those shielding, and NHS staff that always have a tough January and February without us piling Covid admissions on them as a nasty winter bonus.
@frankconway this is a political move, nothing more, from all 4 leaders of their respective countries. None of them want to be known as the ‘leader who cancelled Christmas’ Any of them could of done it if they chose to, but do you think the public would ever let them forget it when this is over?
The government aren’t speading this virus, the public are, we know how it’s transmitted now yet some people are willing to risk their own families and others lives for one day in December they normally complain about anyway.
Must admit to being utterly hacked off with this. My wife and I have been left by our emigrated siblings to dealing with the Olds for years and, just for once, were looking forward to it just being us and the kids for Christmas. Now we've got the old dears asking how we're going to include them "because Nicola says its OK". I'm just going to have to have beer for Christmas breakfast so the wife has to decide to drive there.
OK people
I'm on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
None of them want to be known as the ‘leader who cancelled Christmas’ Any of them could of done it if they chose to, but do you think the public would ever let them forget it when this is over?
But they'll all get it in the neck come February when cases, admissions and deaths rise as a result of this.
Yes but with the knowledge that you could contract it whilst away from home
Even as someone who thinks that the current "lockdown" is a waste of time, or maybe because I do, this seems utterly idiotic. Either it's fine to meet other people inside or it isn't, just because it's Christmas doesn't change that. I'm going to carry on meeting multiple people outdoors for rides and walks, but I've got no intention of potentially putting my parents at risk by visiting them for a couple of days when infection rates in the North are still very high.
MrOvershoot
Full Member
OK people
I’m on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
No one can give you the answer to that one in truth. From a pure risk adverse level, it's "no" of course. Not as simple as that though is it mate.
Sorry to hear about your wife, I've no idea how tough any Christmas must be for you, let alone this one.
markspark, of course it's a political move.
Being a political leader, I would suggest, involves a willingness to take the big decision, the unpopular decision - the right decision for the greater good.
Today's announcement is a clear demonstration that they have all ducked the issue with this fudge.
They have all clearly decided they would prefer a little short term popularity rather than a reputation for putting the nation's health first.
Short term popularity will rapidly fade and be forgotten.
Being tagged with the responsibility for avoidable deaths is a memory that won't fade and won't be forgotten.
Frank, not often I disagree with you but I do on this unfortunately.
Once a vaccine is available I suspect the majority of the country will just want to move on. There'll be a public inquiry of course and lessons will be learnt but Brexit will be kicking in amongst other unknowns and Covid will just be "history".
It's crap and I wish it wasn't this way as I agree, politicians should have had the courage to tough this out with vaccines so close now.
Seeing as the virus has declared a truce for 5 days, maybe we could all have a game of football with it on Christmas morning in between the trenches.
That’d be nice
Poops, it's always ok to disagree.
Once vaccinations start there will be a collective sigh of relief and, absolutely, the majority will want to move on.
For the relatives of those who die in early 2021 where there is any connection to CV19 - dying of or with - I doubt they will forget or want to move on.
They will be identify political leaders as having made the wrong decision.
That is how I would react.
It's clear from your posts that you have a clear-eyed focus on protecting your mother; long may that continue.
Oh yes Frank, I'll be honest, if I'd lost someone close I would be out for blood. Heads should roll (metaphorically) over the mismanagement of this crisis but I doubt we'll ever even see a resignation. Utter bunch of *****.
should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
If you want to.
They won't get it in the neck at all, the plebs will be blamed for being silly sausages and for blowing bubbles.
MrOvershoot. Really sorry to hear. I'd say yes certainly. Are you part of a support bubble? If not, then can you make your inlaws that support bubble?
Aimed at me Kryton?
Not you specifically. My apologies I just find the endless questions and political posturing over words very frustrating when I personally find it very easy to work out how to avoid contact with people during a pandemic period.
My huge condolences to Mr Overshoot I’m very sorry for your situation.
Either it’s fine to meet other people inside or it isn’t, just because it’s Christmas doesn’t change that.
It's not binary.
Think of it as turning on the taps for a bit, so the water (Covid) level will get a bit higher, but not as high as if we left the taps running all the time.
I expected looser rules than they've come up with, but I think they've got it about right - for once.
I personally find it very easy to work out how to avoid contact with people during a pandemic period.
That's great. It's pretty easy for me too, but can you really not see people have very different circumstances and it's not so easy for everyone? Couple that with the vague, contradictory and poorly thought out rules and it becomes apparent why some are asking questions and struggling.
I'd argue it's pragmatic politics - a lot of people will ignore the rules over Christmas anyway, it's unenforceable realistically. Restrictions pre Christmas and post Christmas were always likely to be needed whatever the rules said, so I understand why the decision was made, even if I disagree with it. No idea why they went with 5 days though, that's excessive.
Devi and Juan Bakewell sum it up nicely.
What do you think will happen if you bubble with two other households on christmas day then go for a socially distanced bike ride with a mate on boxing day? The police arent going to turn up at your door and whack you all with fines for it.
It's not about the Police turning up, it never has been - it's whether you and your mates actions inadvertently kill a loved one 4 weeks later.
Couple that with the vague, contradictory and poorly thought out rules
Thats the bit I struggle with, if he told you to jump off a cliff would you? We all know how to best avoid transmission and the likely outcome if we don't. Just enact it yourself, why waste time arguing over nuances on internet sites overtime a new headline appears.
It seems like madness to me. I'd expected maybe a day of rule easing, which would let people do what they want but prevent long distance nationwide travel, but five days is just a fire sale of the progress that's been made. I'm disappointed Sturgeon went for it.
I live in Scottish Tier 3. So it's bad here. My folks have been in some kind of Northern English Lockdown since July. We last saw them in August when there were zero deaths in Scotland. Yesterday in England there were over 600. I'd be mortified if we went down there and gave either of them, both in their late sixties, or my granny Covid and one of them had long term repercussions or died. So we're not going.
Thats the bit I struggle with, if he told you to jump off a cliff would you? We all know how to best avoid transmission and the likely outcome if we don’t. Just enact it yourself
So it's OK to ignore the rules if you know better?
OK people
I’m on my own since my wife died last year and I work in Liverpool where I can get a test any time and get the results in 20 minutes.
So lets say I get a test on the 24th Dec and test negative, should I drive down to South Gloucestershire in a small village to stay with the in-laws in their massive house with my own bedroom & bathroom for Christmas?
I would say that compared to some people who will be crossing the country to visit 2 or 3 different family households over the 5 days without a test to know for sure you're being very sensible and should do so. The mental health benefits for you would far outweigh any chance of the test being wrong and you passing it on. Just take sensible precautions like fuel the car fully a few days before the test, self-isolate for those few days before the test and on the drive down don't stop at a services unless you're desperate for a pee.
It's all about risk mitigation rather than total risk removal.
Either it’s fine to meet other people inside or it isn’t, just because it’s Christmas doesn’t change that. I’m going to carry on meeting multiple people outdoors for rides and walks, but I’ve got no intention of potentially putting my parents at risk by visiting them for a couple of days when infection rates in the North are still very high.
Replace "The North" with "The Midlands" and this is exactly where I am.
I'm trying to listen to the government's science driven advise(!) and at the moment that says I can't see people indoors, I can't meet my mates in the pub beer garden and I can only meet 1 other person outside. I'm assuming that the virus won't change in the next month so to then go and spend 6 hours in doors with my 70 year old parents seems ridiculous.
I suspect me and Mrs Lunge will meet both sets of parents for a stroll outside and then eat Christmas dinner at home.
I will likely sit there raging when I've done my bit and the country goes into lockdown in Jan and Feb again.
I will likely sit there raging when I’ve done my bit and the country goes into lockdown in Jan and Feb again.
That's the really hard part. Those of us who would have done what we were told at Christmas if the government had done the right thing and said "Christmas is off because if it's on people will die" will now pay for it in January and February. As we've done every time we've followed the rules and others thave driven the R rate up.
Still, it's better than paying the price of a dead parent.
Our family has decided to do Aussie Christmas and have a BBQ on the beach in summer.
Will just spend the day eating curry with my girlfriend in the house.
Couple that with the vague, contradictory and poorly thought out rules
They just interviewed one of Borises minions MPs interviewed on Five Live. His stuttering, evasion and umming and ahhing quickly exposed the fact he clearly didn't have a ****ing clue what you were or weren't allowed to do.
Clear as mud.
Standard nowadays, isn't it?
Aye. If you're lucky enough to be in a Tier 1 area, you can look forward to more lockdown rather than less since travel restrictions are being lifted.
We've also been consistently told that meeting up in hospitality settings is safer than in our houses. That's being turned on its head too.
And hugging is now OK?
@MrOvershoot, given the time you've had of it, I don't think anyone would begrudge you that. Have a nice time buddy.
The Christmas bubble thing isn't just about the virus, they are trying to balance out the damage of the virus vs the wave of Christmas suicides that are expected!
How high is the cliff?
I think in a lot of situations, with people using common-sense, family gatherings at Christmas would be very low risk. Personally I'm basically self-isolating anyway (not because I need to but because I'm not very socialable and get everything I need delivered :p ) so unless the delivery people are infected and lick the parcels/food shopping I shouldn't pick it up. My brother less so as he has 4 kids but if they took precautions between school ending and a Christmas family get together it would still be pretty low risk.
Anyone that's already just staying in the rules but not doing everything possible to minimise contact with people other than in their direct household (or support bubble if it's absolutely required) is a hypocrite if they're posting on here saying Christmas get togethers are risking killing more people than would otherwise happen.
Ofc there's a lot of the population that will see it as an excuse to do what they want over Christmas and meet up outside the rules that have been set but they're going to do that regardless so no a valid reason to outright reject a temporary small reduction in restrictions for everyone.
I think we can only be true to ourselves: I can't control what others choose to do, but I can decide to not take advantage of relaxed rules that will inevitably cause a rise in infection and death. So it'll be a quiet Christmas with my immediate family, and a socially-distanced walk with the in-laws.
The Christmas bubble thing isn’t just about the virus, they are trying to balance out the damage of the virus vs the wave of Christmas suicides that are expected!
I did jokingly ask on page 1 about overnight stays because sober christmas is a fate worse than death... but balance of extra covid deaths vs drink driving deaths is not a factor to be ignored.
I think in a lot of situations, with people using common-sense, family gatherings at Christmas would be very low risk.
I agree, for the same reasons. But I'd add that there's probably another aspect to things.
Those of us currently sticking to the rules aren't gonna suddenly go nuts and see loads of people indoors, while rule breakers are probably already doing what this now allows.
What I'm getting at is, it may not change overall behaviour patterns that much, really.
